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Quote (Kaijyuu @ 8th February 2007 23:03)

He says "hey, take that back" or something silly.

Excuse me while I go murder some kittens over the Atma -> Ultima change. For once a game had a good made up synonym for Ultamite or Best or Greatest or whatever. Now it's as cheezy as the rest.


And Zeromus, I'm curious. Do you like this game for it's gameplay (battle system, magic system, ect), or for it's feel? Because this new translation shifted it's feel considerably (didnt change entirely, just shifted), but the gameplay aspects are very well intact.
What I'm asking is, did you dislike the old game's translation and presentation? Or at least not really like it?

I myself like FF6 due to it's feel; the battle system and even the story got boring after a few playthroughs. I stayed for the presentation, personality of the characters, and all that junk that was halfway and sometimes entirely created by Ted Woosley. These aspects, which are the main ones I cared about, were altered. Small changes can make a huge difference, and it just doesnt feel the same. I dont care if it's closer to the original; in fact I dislike that it's closer to the original. I fell in love with the Woosley version, not the japanese.

If you liked the game for other reasons, or perhaps liked the japanese version more, that's no problem. You got a better game, and I'm happy you're enjoying it. I just hope you understand why I and perhaps some of the others dislike the changes so much. It's because it changed what we liked about it, into something we just dont like quite as much.

My feelin's

Well, as for the Ultima/Atma name, as I said, this is the first game to feature an Ultima Weapon. This trend is continued on in later games in the series (pretty much every one?), so I don't understand why it's a big deal, or 'cheesy', or whatever, since Ultima and Ultima Weapon are series mainstays. I always figured it was a reference to the classic Ultima series of cRPGs.

I like Final Fantasy VI, for well, just about everything. I don't care what language or translation it's in, though, as accurate as possible is preferable. I get the 'FFVI feeling' whenever I get to hear the world map theme, or listen to the Opera, or see Kefka destroy the world, or revive the Falcon and hear Searching for Friends, or just playing this whole dang game over again in general. I could care less if a few lines were left out, no matter how cute they are, that doesn't make this game any less FFVI, in my eyes. FFVI doesn't mean Woolsey or the Japanese version to me, FFVI is just FFVI. And FFVI is awesome.

And no, I didn't dislike Woolsey's translation at all! I don't mean to give that impression. He did the best he could with his constraints due to hardware and censorship limitations, and indeed had a very silly sense of humor with the way he handled the dialogue and presentation and such. But now, we can get the most accurate, representative localization as laszlow pointed out. The translators weren't obligated to keep anything the same just for nostalgia for long-time fans, as that isn't just the only audience for this game. And, given the localization of the previous Gameboy Advance ports, silly things like spells suffixes and Ultima Weapon and any other name changes (now of which have already become series norms) shouldn't be surprising anyway. That's why I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of it. Same thing with Woolsey's one liners, they are silly and everything, but they don't define Final Fantasy VI for me. It isn't going to ruin my enjoyment of this game, handheld, just because Shadow refuses to slit his mama's throat for a nickel.

However, given your point of view in the third and fourth paragraphs, I guess I can understand why you would feel that way. I guess it's just a difference in opinions here; I like Final Fantasy VI as itself, and enjoy it's story and gameplay every time I play it (otherwise I probably wouldn't have played it as many times as I have). I grew up with the Woolsey translation just as I'm sure a good majority of the rest of you have, and indeed there are some nostalgic lines here and there. But these things don't define FFVI for me, which is why I don't think it's such a big deal that a couple lines here or there aren't exactly the same as they were before.

Blargh, well, I'm tired, and probably rambling at this point (zomg wall of text), but I'm not meaning to be the evil Japanophile, or anything like that. I just like this game a whole bunch, and am enjoying that it's receiving the most accurate and modern localization yet so far.

Now, as for my review...

Just got through Darill's Tomb. I liked Daryl better. I don't know if they're pronounced differently. The puzzle in the tomb is still 'THE WORLD IS SQUARE', so that should be pleasing. Moogle Charm is now Molulu (Mog's sweetheart's)'s Charm. And Mog still rocks.

But now I'm tired and the power of my DS is getting low. I'll continue the playtime at some other time.



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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 10th February 2007 02:21)

Just got through Darill's Tomb. I liked Daryl better. I don't know if they're pronounced differently. The puzzle in the tomb is still 'THE WORLD IS SQUARE', so that should be pleasing. Moogle Charm is now Molulu (Mog's sweetheart's)'s Charm. And Mog still rocks.

As an aside, I believe the 1.0 cart had a glitch where Daryl, or at least her tomb, could sometimes be spelled "Darill." Or maybe that was constant. I'm not sure, I haven't even lived in the same house as my SNES in about six years.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

If I recall correctly, the problem is that it's Daryl in dialogue and Darill's Tomb in the location name box. I could have that reversed, but yeah, the inconsistency is real.

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Laslow, you're correct in asserting that I'm wanting a nostalgic game on the GBA, not a more correct-to-the-original one. This is something I fully admit to, as if you'd read a bit farther into my nonsense, you'd see that I said I dont want a FF6 closer to it's japanese roots.

However, let me draw a parallel (that are admitingly stretching it a bit).
If Darth Vader's line was changed to "Luke, I'm your dad!", then obviously that line would lose much of it's "feel" to long time star wars fans. Also it sounds significantly cheesier.
But nowadays, how many people actually call their father "father"? Most that I know never reffer to them as that, but rather "dad". It's more localised to our culture, isnt it?

None of the lines in FF6 have the power of the above one, but many are changed in a similar way. "Sandworm" makes more sense, sounds more like an insult, and is still off the wall enough for Kefka.
Better, isnt it?

I personally dont think so, and as many have said, it's a matter of opinion. For those that enjoy the new translation, I'm happy for you. As more me, I think I'll return my cart, and try my hand at GBA rom hacking.


Zeromus, glad we understand each other And glad you're enjoying it.

Edit

i speel purfict!

This post has been edited by Kaijyuu on 11th February 2007 00:46

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"All eight dragons are defeated..."
"The Eightfold Seal is broken!"

Obtained Crusader magicite!

There is a small stone tablet on the ground.
On its face is a short inscription...

"The seal is broken and I am free..."
"You who defeated the legendary eight...I shall await you at the Dragon's Horn..."

And, I'm happy to say they actually bothered to fix the music during the credits. >_>

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

i like some of the changes made to the gau intro, Gau has such a way with words.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

LOL cloud. i just got my copy today. seems that all around san diego, every freakin one was reserved or sold out. luckily, my uncle went back home for the weekend and he picked it up for me (we actually have a gamestop and im pretty sure there are more games in that store than people in our town). prolly will start on it later this week sounds like fun from what everyone is saying!

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"The answer is, of course, that it would be best to be both loved and feared. But since the two rarely come together, anyone compelled to choose will find greater security in being feared than in being loved."
- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

Good news: they haven't changed the self-help booklet line.

I'm levelling up in preparation for the bonus dungeon.

Overall, I can't complain. If some classic lines have been removed, the new translation is nearly flawless, with no corny lines. It's more refined, for sure. And there are some great new lines like "weapons of magitek destruction". If that isn't clever, I dunno what is.

Lighten up and give it a try!

This post has been edited by Jlombardi13 on 13th February 2007 03:05

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

Or how about

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"What a delicious morsel! I'd love to wrap my tentacles around you..."

You don't really need to overlevel for the bonus dungeon. As long as your characters have learned the right spells, you can still get by. Anything over 60 will probably make it too easy.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (Jlombardi13 @ 13th February 2007 03:05)

And there are some great new lines like "weapons of magitek destruction". If that isn't clever, I dunno what is.

Sorry to say, you don't know what clever is IMO. For no corny lines, that sure as hell sounds like one to me. So does son of a sandworm.

That's possibly the lamest thing they could slip in. Taking a game from the mid 90s and slipping in Iraq War references? No. Just no. It's not earth shattering, but I can't help but dread what other kind of rubbish like that I'll find along the way. And some translations seem to just be changed for the sake of change. If there's any references to 1984, V for Vendetta, The Matrix, or anything that's emerged in popular culture since 1996, for goodness sake don't tell me.

It's nice they've added things and updated the translation but did they have to update it THAT much?

Edit

For clarity, I refer to the fact 1984 is being quoted by actual liberals and the odd conspiracy nut a lot in relation to anything infringing on civil liberties more frequently these days due to The War Against Terror.

This post has been edited by Del S on 13th February 2007 18:14

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

I'm not even sure if the translation is an update at all.

It seems more like, they just flat out retranslated it from scratch.

Personally i want to text hack the FFVIa version to combine the best of both translations.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Quote (Del S @ 13th February 2007 01:16)

Quote (Jlombardi13 @ 13th February 2007 03:05)

And there are some great new lines like "weapons of magitek destruction". If that isn't clever, I dunno what is.

Sorry to say, you don't know what clever is IMO. For no corny lines, that sure as hell sounds like one to me. So does son of a sandworm.

That's possibly the lamest thing they could slip in. Taking a game from the mid 90s and slipping in Iraq War references? No. Just no. It's not earth shattering, but I can't help but dread what other kind of rubbish like that I'll find along the way. And some translations seem to just be changed for the sake of change. If there's any references to 1984, V for Vendetta, The Matrix, or anything that's emerged in popular culture since 1996, for goodness sake don't tell me.

It's nice they've added things and updated the translation but did they have to update it THAT much?

When did 1984 became a 21st century thing?

Also, I am so bloody relieved they kept in the self-help booklet line.

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SuperHeroChat

I counted quite a few corny lines, not sure where that came from
Old translation had corny lines too, dont get me wrong, but the new one is as bad or worse with it.


And the term "weapons of mass destruction" was around LONG before the iraq war. It was coined after the first atom bombs.


And I would love someone to switch the old translation into a FFVA ROM I do want to see the new translation, but it'd be more enjoyable for me to play the game with the old.

Quote (Gears @ 6th February 2007 14:14)

Edit

It's keeping up.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

They changed the line from when you first see Shadow from "He'd slit his mama's throat for a nickle," to "He'd kill his best friend if the price was right." I guess that kind of has some ironic foreshadowing, but it loses the flavor, IMO

It's not just you, that line doesn't have nearly the effect of the original....

Let's start a petition......Bring back Kupo.......

We'll i've finally gotten it and i have to say i think the new translation is ...interesting to say the least. However the statement sabin makes when he first ask to join your team, now makes a whole lot of sense thanks impart to terra's retranslated line before that. So really think that this whole thing might be good. Dont really know yet though i am still working on completeing the first of the secinarios, i chose to do sabins first as i find it the most gruling.

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Don't fear the reaper!
Wonderful system this "Democracy" is no mechanism to break a tie -Dinobot-
It's spelled Raymond Luxray Yatch but it's pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Sic Semper Tyrannis bush.

I got FFVI Advance because I missed the SNES version.

Its alot harder since Death/X-Zone doesn't work the way they used to, this makes getting AP in WoB hard because I can't kill Intangir

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<Insert witty remark here>

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Good news: they haven't changed the self-help booklet line.

Whee! That's pretty much my favourite line in the game, and probably the only one I'd feel even the slightest bit miffed about having changed.

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Come with me so I can show you how to live
Burning the candle at both ends
I’m gripping at the walls around me
Don’t complicate it
I’m addicted to this life
I’ll be your token of attention
All my lies come down to this
-Orgy, "Beautiful Disgrace"

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Its alot harder since Death/X-Zone doesn't work the way they used to, this makes getting AP in WoB hard because I can't kill Intangir

I just went through the Floating Continent about a hundred times.

I got a party up there, gave them spells they haven't learned yet, fought to save point before Ultima Weapon, and then did an AP grind until all the characters learned all the spells. Then I abandone dthe FC, chaged out parties, and repeated.

By the time I got to UW, all of my characters were in low-mid thirties, and Shadow was at low 40s.

You get 3-6 ap points for each battle you fight up there, plus the experience, and lots of gold. Works for me.

~~~~~~~~

As for lines that we miss, my favorite line in the entire game is GONE.

"Don't tease the octopus, kids!"

Gone.

But the opera scene is totally kickass.

-Rifty

Personally, I was quite disappointed with the translation discrepancies, I felt a retranslation for a good bit of the game, was unnecessary at best, the game got its point across fine as it was, and the script, items, monsters, and espers look to be near completely re-translated, it's a little disappointing, mainly because I grew up with this game, and a lot of the "corny" one liners were what made the experience memorable to me.

This game, being my FAVORITE of the series, seems like it has a completely different flavour than before. Its like if Snickers was to replace their chocolate with non-fat or sugarless chocolate, it just seems to lost its flavour. Atma>Ultima, KungFuSuit>Kenpo Gi, Fire 2> Fira.. what was honestly wrong with the original translation? No cussing? Well, the cussing isn't in this one either.... The one liners? Well, they are here, but worse than before...

Now, there were some needed fixes added, such as Fenix>Phoenix, and putting classes behind the names of characters was a nice touch, but, some they screwed up worse than before, Antdot>Poisona? And Tritoch isn't Tritoch, its some weird name, I need to look that up later, right now, I am headed to the Esper cave(after getting Strago), nowhere close to obtaining it.

Oh well, enough of my btch-fest...

~TheDarkDragoon

Quote (bebi vegeta @ 23rd February 2007 20:00)

Personally, I was quite disappointed with the translation discrepancies, I felt a retranslation for a good bit of the game, was unnecessary at best, the game got its point across fine as it was, and the script, items, monsters, and espers look to be near completely re-translated, it's a little disappointing, mainly because I grew up with this game, and a lot of the "corny" one liners were what made the experience memorable to me.

This game, being my FAVORITE of the series, seems like it has a completely different flavour than before. Its like if Snickers was to replace their chocolate with non-fat or sugarless chocolate, it just seems to lost its flavour. Atma>Ultima, KungFuSuit>Kenpo Gi, Fire 2> Fira.. what was honestly wrong with the original translation? No cussing? Well, the cussing isn't in this one either.... The one liners? Well, they are here, but worse than before...

Now, there were some needed fixes added, such as Fenix>Phoenix, and putting classes behind the names of characters was a nice touch, but, some they screwed up worse than before, Antdot>Poisona? And Tritoch isn't Tritoch, its some weird name, I need to look that up later, right now, I am headed to the Esper cave(after getting Strago), nowhere close to obtaining it.

Oh well, enough of my btch-fest...

~TheDarkDragoon

I am not 100% sure on this but i think in descrete places they have swearing, like when locke finds terra i think he says something like " Damn there's a whole bunch of em" i think they do it in areas were people probably arent focused too much on the rewording though. Thats about the only one i can think of off hand though

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Don't fear the reaper!
Wonderful system this "Democracy" is no mechanism to break a tie -Dinobot-
It's spelled Raymond Luxray Yatch but it's pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Sic Semper Tyrannis bush.

When i saw that they changed that line, i got really mad, how can you just change a classic line like that you know. But i've gotten over it, and i'm already almost finished with my first play through anyways.

Most of the changes in dialouge is just there to make the game more accurate.

Despite what you think, your favorite lines in the game were either translation errors or there because of character limits.

Atma => Mistranslation for Ultima
Fire 2 => Spells have had "A" ar "AGA" in their names since FFVIII and its not changing.
Celes's beating => Not in the Japanese version, not in the GBA version.
"Slit his momma's throat" line => They were trying to tone it down I guess...It could have been left.


I'm happy with the GBA version. I mean look at Goddes and Chardanok, NUDITY! hell yea, how can you not like fighting naked people! :-P

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<Insert witty remark here>

Celes's beating wasnt in the japanese version?

I've never heard of that before.

Edit

And there's no real "mistranslation" for Ultima or Atma. Both are made up words reffering to "ultamite". Both are equally accurate.

This post has been edited by Kaijyuu on 1st March 2007 21:48

It wasn't in the Japanese version of the GBA version. It was in the SNES version, of course. Apparently they're having issues regarding kidnapping and torture, so that was a sensitive enough scene to warrant censoring it (which doesn't make it any less innexcusable, but oh well).

アルテマ = A ru te ma = Arutema = Ultima. Which has been romanized as Ultima in every game in the series that features this spell. The only reason it couldn't fit before was due to space restrictions, so Woolsey did the best he could with another name.

Quote

Spells have had "A" ar "AGA" in their names since FFVIII and its not changing.

The spells have had those names in every single game, in the Japanese versions. However, once again, these couldn't fit in English localizations due to space restrictions in the older games, which is where 'BOLT 1, 2, 3 etc.' comes from.



--------------------

OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Eh, I was close enough *shrug*

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<Insert witty remark here>

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 2nd March 2007 03:15)

アルテマ = A ru te ma = Arutema = Ultima.

That can just as easily be taken as "Atma", or even "Altima". The difference is whether you take out a syllable, or combine two of them.
Take out the "ru", you get Atema, Atma. Combine "A" and "ru", you get altima or ultima.
Translation is an indefinite art, especially when not replacing words, but rather trying to make them pronunciable. Translating ultamite's pronunciation to Japanese, then back to english, gets you odd results, and partially depends if you like the Japanese version or the original English one.

Edit

Clarification on above line: Arutema verses Ultamite.
Which is most accurate? Arutema OR Ultamite? Original english word, or the pronunciation used in the japanese game?
A translator could choose either without it really being "inaccurate".
What they apparently did, was, make Arutema easier to pronounce to english players by combining the syllables rather than removing any, and chose "ultima" over "altima" so players would recognise that it was indeed "ultamite".

Very similar to the "Butz", "Barts", or "Boots" question for FF5. "Batsu" can be taken just about any of those 3 ways.

This post has been edited by Kaijyuu on 2nd March 2007 22:17

Quote (Kaijyuu @ 2nd March 2007 16:59)

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 2nd March 2007 03:15)

アルテマ = A ru te ma = Arutema = Ultima.

That can just as easily be taken as "Atma", or even "Altima". The difference is whether you take out a syllable, or combine two of them.
Take out the "ru", you get Atema, Atma. Combine "A" and "ru", you get altima or ultima.
Translation is an indefinite art, especially when not replacing words, but rather trying to make them pronouncable. Translating "ultamite" to Japanese, then back to english, gets you odd results, and partially depends if you like the Japanese version or the original English one.



Much similar to the "Butz", "Barts", or "Boots" question for FF5. "Batsu" can be taken just about any of those 3 ways.

What you said doesn't make a lot of sense. "Taking out a syllable" isn't an acceptable way of transliterating Japanese. I think your problem comes from a flawed understanding of what constitutes a Japanese "syllable", anyway.

I'm going to take everyone's word for it that the original word was a-ru-te-ma in Japanese. That "ru" can't turn the "a" into a long vowel--that only works in the other direction (ie, English "art" would be "a-a-to"). You can't just get rid of "ru", so Atema and Atma are just plain incorrect.

You also can't "combine" two mora, and that's not what you'd do to get "altima" or "ultima", anyway. The u (or o, after a t) in non-Japanese words is often there just to fulfill the requirement that n (which sometimes sounds like other nasal consonants) is the only consonant that can have its own mora. That's why you can ignore them when translating back to English; it's only there to aid Japanese pronunciation of a foreign word.

When you have a word like a-ru-te-ma, your only option for an English spelling is to lose the u if you think it was put there as a filler and re-identify the vowels for English pronounciation (like the a/u in the first mora, the e/i in the third mora). Ultima or Altima is correct. Atma just isn't. I liked it too, and I miss it, but it really was a correction, not just a reinterpretation.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

I edited above post.

I understand saying "removing a syllable" isnt good translation. However, if you're wanting a word to be easier to understand to your audience, you need to make it sound more familiar.
Emphasis on making it easier to understand for your audience. If they didnt want it to be more localised to the english speaking players, they simply would of left it "arutema" once the spacing allowed it.

Combining or removing are the best ways.



And I'm not sure what you mean by saying "A-ru" to "Ul" isnt combining syllables. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?
If we were to ignore all the Japanese pronunciation requirements, then we'd have "Ultamite", and "Fire 3" again.

Edit

Jeez, I'm doing a very bad job of explaining this
I dont see ignoring the "u" in certain japanese words as good translation, myself. I'm not going to go into details of the English language, but other languages have shortend and/or different sounds for many of our regular use vowel and consonate sounds. Writing an English word or any other language's without the correct sounds assotiated with them leads to bad pronunciation, and in languages like Chinese it can lead to word mix-ups.
In other words, editing a word to more fit a language's accent in any way is not in my opinion "good" translation. Not really "bad" either; it's localizing to more fit the audience.
Now, my point is, why is removing a syllable any more changing a word than altering it's sounds? It ultamitely means the same.

EDIT number two: Haha, I never really caught myself on this. Before learning anything at all about japanese, I always assumed the "a" at the end of something like "fira" meant in japanese that it was the second one. Now I know that assumption has no base to stand on, and I cant claim that as a reason

Quote

If we were to ignore all the Japanese pronunciation requirements, then we'd have "Ultamite", and "Fire 3" again.

since I have no idea.

This post has been edited by Kaijyuu on 2nd March 2007 22:55

The dialogue with Kefka at the end was more exact. I saw it on Youtube. The original version it is more generalized meaning the programmers were all thinking the same thing in a way. Trying to make it unbias, but it is fiction, and so would be difficult to portray as a real person.

They explain a lot more too, like declaring Relm a Pictomancer. So this means my personal preference is for the older version, but I'm sure this new one wouldn't be too disappointing. I'll check it out when I get around to it.

Ok, enough seriousness, let enjoy the game.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/Greatermaxim

Terra - LV 99 - HP 9999 - MP 999

Equipment - - - Abilities

Illumina - - - - - Fight
Genji Shield - - Morph
Oath Veil - - - - Magic
Minerva - - - - - Item
Ribbon
Economizer

Speaking of new lines...

Who here opened Cyan's chest a Mt. Zozo in the GBA version?

I was quite amused with the title of the last book.


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<Insert witty remark here>