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FF7 remake thoughts [spoilers sometimes unmarked]

Posted: 21st November 2020 09:35

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So i got this game recently and want to talk about it.

It's obviously going to be into multiple games.

I heard rumors that SE doesn't want to kill off aerith, which is a grave mistake that would lead to a difference in story

I think cloud strife is more likeable here, i think they did a good jobat making jessie and biggs developed, because the previous one didn't, and in my opinion ff6 had more on its characters than ff7 because ff7 focused too much on cloud and sephy, but that is the og.

I don't quite know what to think of the phantom things, i am worried about straying too far from the classic.

Combat:

Well its real time which seems to work pretty well actually. Being able to use limit breaks more often gives diff feel cloud as a heavy punisher in damage and barret for instance as the guy used to shoot turrets which are out of range of melee attacks.

There is sort of a crystarium but for weapons upgrade system that gives bonuses, which i guess is also kinda nice, since it gives more options to mess with and decide.


graphics: midgar looks like it did in the game but with much much higher quality graphics, with more routes to go and mini quests everywhere to get to know the people as distractions.

So far thought: Some stuff i like some i'm unsure of. I do think the char development is better than the original, but thats a given since ff7 og is over 20 years old and given their focus, they had limited room to develop fokls.

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Posted: 4th December 2020 00:38

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Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 21st November 2020 04:35)
So i got this game recently and want to talk about it.

It's obviously going to be into multiple games.

I heard rumors that SE doesn't want to kill off aerith, which is a grave mistake that would lead to a difference in story

I think cloud strife is more likeable here, i think they did a good jobat making jessie and biggs developed, because the previous one didn't, and in my opinion ff6 had more on its characters than ff7 because ff7 focused too much on cloud and sephy, but that is the og.

I don't quite know what to think of the phantom things, i am worried about straying too far from the classic.

Combat:

Well its real time which seems to work pretty well actually. Being able to use limit breaks more often gives diff feel cloud as a heavy punisher in damage and barret for instance as the guy used to shoot turrets which are out of range of melee attacks.

There is sort of a crystarium but for weapons upgrade system that gives bonuses, which i guess is also kinda nice, since it gives more options to mess with and decide.


graphics: midgar looks like it did in the game but with much much higher quality graphics, with more routes to go and mini quests everywhere to get to know the people as distractions.

So far thought: Some stuff i like some i'm unsure of. I do think the char development is better than the original, but thats a given since ff7 og is over 20 years old and given their focus, they had limited room to develop fokls.

What you have to understand is Square Enix told us we would never ever get a remake of Final Fantasy VII and they were right. When you see Final Fantasy VII Remake you cannot equate the Remake in which how you are imagining it. Equate Remake with World Remade.

Also you stated things look better. I would say they look different because of the butterfly effect. The 'Ghosts' have a purpose and their purpose is to try to keep things the same and to stop the butterfly effect and make sure things happen as they previously happened.

I do not know how far a long you are but this is not a Remake it is a sequel. To understand whats going on in this game you have to have played/watched Crisis Core, Final Fantasy VII-1, Final Fantasy Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus. This game takes place after Dirge of Cerberus story wise and way way way after Final Fantasy VII.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-s-VQBoUdc...l=silvosforever

This post has been edited by His Shadow on 4th December 2020 00:42

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Posted: 5th December 2020 21:10

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Quote (His Shadow @ 4th December 2020 00:38)
Equate Remake with World Remade.

huh.gif

Quote
I do not know how far a long you are but this is not a Remake it is a sequel. To understand whats going on in this game you have to have played/watched Crisis Core, Final Fantasy VII-1, Final Fantasy Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus. This game takes place after Dirge of Cerberus story wise and way way way after Final Fantasy VII.


Aye, it's one of those sequels that takes place at the same time as the first one...with the same characters...and the same basic plot.
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Posted: 6th December 2020 16:20

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Quote (His Shadow @ 4th December 2020 01:38)


I do not know how far a long you are but this is not a Remake it is a sequel. To understand whats going on in this game you have to have played/watched Crisis Core, Final Fantasy VII-1, Final Fantasy Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus. This game takes place after Dirge of Cerberus story wise and way way way after Final Fantasy VII.

Sorry, what?

If you tried to argue that VIIR is a reboot, not a Remake, then I could be tempted to see your point. But a sequel? No. You're out of your tree.

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Posted: 26th December 2020 03:19

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Quote (Stiltzkin @ 6th December 2020 11:20)
Quote (His Shadow @ 4th December 2020 01:38)


I do not know how far a long you are but this is not a Remake it is a sequel. To understand whats going on in this game you have to have played/watched Crisis Core, Final Fantasy VII-1, Final Fantasy Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus. This game takes place after Dirge of Cerberus story wise and way way way after Final Fantasy VII.

Sorry, what?

If you tried to argue that VIIR is a reboot, not a Remake, then I could be tempted to see your point. But a sequel? No. You're out of your tree.

So I am not sure if you all finished the game or played the game or understand whats going on. I know there is a lot of people who are waiting for the others to come out because they think this is a Remake and want the 'full game' to come out when again this game is a sequel not a reboot.

So if you want to read the spoilers your more then welcome to below but just know this will spoil the entire plot of Final Fantasy VII Remake. Since most people do not think there is a new plot because its a remake this is where you'll learn you are wrong.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sometime after Dirge of Cerberus Sephiroth traveled back into time. Hopefully you'll get my Chrono Trigger reference with the youtube video now. Basically with this happening you'll see the scene of Zac from Crisis Core when the Price of Freedom starts playing right before he battled the Shinra Troops. Because of Sephiroth time traveling Zac survived and was not killed this time.

So yeah huge spoiler Zac is alive. During the end of the game Sephiroth stabs Barrett in the way of Aerith but is saved by the Ghosts which are meant to keep the time line the same. In fact throughout the game you'll encounter the ghosts as well as Sephiroth at the beginning of the game which changes things.

You'll notice whenever something is different from the orginal timeline the ghosts will appear.

Sephiroth will then ask Cloud to join him in defying the future that was and beckons you to follow him.

Right after that event Aerith warns the party as the planet is having her relay a message that Sephiroth is a danger the planet but the future he speaks of changing still cannot happen and asks the party to attempt to change the future.

At this point the entire party sees flash backs even Red VIII of the future they are attempting to destroy and at this point the party fights the ghosts of representing themselves to try to product the future that was made.

The party successfully fend off the ghosts of the future Cloud, Tifa, and Barret who lose the party of the past (Final Fantasy VII Remake Party).

At this point the party has changed the future and the future that happened never happened.


At this point you realize this is a sequel or many people are still confused at what just happened even though
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the whole speech about changing time and witnessing Zac survive


So to really understand whats going on in Final Fantasy VII Remake you need to play the series in order Before Crisis, Crisis Core, Final Fantasy VII, Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus.

Dirge of Cerberus will help you understand the UNDERGROUND areas and Crisis Core will help you understand the scenes that play in Final Fantasy VII Remake that are directly from Crisis Core.

Again for the people who are still saying they are waiting for the full game of FF7. Well tell them this is again not a remake but a sequel and they played the full game of FF7 years ago at this point and what they are getting is something unexpected but SquareEnix constantly told us they would never give us a remake.

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Posted: 26th December 2020 03:26

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Quote (Cefca @ 5th December 2020 16:10)
Quote (His Shadow @ 4th December 2020 00:38)
Equate Remake with World Remade.

huh.gif

Quote
I do not know how far a long you are but this is not a Remake it is a sequel. To understand whats going on in this game you have to have played/watched Crisis Core, Final Fantasy VII-1, Final Fantasy Advent Children, and Dirge of Cerberus. This game takes place after Dirge of Cerberus story wise and way way way after Final Fantasy VII.


Aye, it's one of those sequels that takes place at the same time as the first one...with the same characters...and the same basic plot.

Hehehehe think about it. How it could be a sequel if it happens after Dirge of Cerberus but happened at the same time as a previous game biggrin.gif wink.gif

Square used to make an RPG Series that the entire premise was surrounding this. Also the plot is not the same. The ghosts try to keep everything the same to attempt to stop the butterfly effect.

If you would like to understand see my spoilers in the post above. If you're one of those people who believe this is a literal Remake and are mad or upset because there is going to be multiple releases and they just want one game. This is one sequel in the series of Final Fantasy VII just like Crisis Core, and Dirge of Cerberus.

I think the word remake has worked so well some people are holding off buying this game because they are waiting for the additional sequels to release but they think this is a remake. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif This game throws one hellva curve ball to you when you realize this isn't what you think it is.

This post has been edited by His Shadow on 26th December 2020 03:26

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Posted: 26th December 2020 21:24

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... Sequel...

user posted image

You know, you'd have a much better chance of engaging with other people on here and encouraging them to agree with your PoV if you dropped the arrogant assumption that everybody else is wrong and you're the only one who can be right. You also don't help yourself by making some pretty basic errors which utterly undermine your assertion that you're right and we're wrong. I mean, Red VIII? You might want to work on your arithmetic.

I've played/watched/read pretty much all of Compendium of FFVII, but I don't know of anything that supports this theory of yours. Is there any supporting evidence?

This post has been edited by Stiltzkin on 27th December 2020 13:45

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Posted: 28th December 2020 17:41

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Quote (Stiltzkin @ 26th December 2020 16:24)
... Sequel...

user posted image

You know, you'd have a much better chance of engaging with other people on here and encouraging them to agree with your PoV if you dropped the arrogant assumption that everybody else is wrong and you're the only one who can be right. You also don't help yourself by making some pretty basic errors which utterly undermine your assertion that you're right and we're wrong. I mean, Red VIII? You might want to work on your arithmetic.

I've played/watched/read pretty much all of Compendium of FFVII, but I don't know of anything that supports this theory of yours. Is there any supporting evidence?

Have you read the spoilers I posted above? Or beaten Final Fantasy VII? At this point I tried with the spoilers but that didn't work so I'll just have to come out with it.

Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus and saves Zac and causes other things to change. With Sephiroth time traveling from the far future he also enlists Cloud and the party to change the time line. Even Aerith who informs the party of the Planet understanding that Sephiroth is a threat that must be defeated the time line that Sephiroth is trying to change must also change because that future the planet agrees is undesirable. (This is all shown at the near end of Final Fantasy VII Remake including Zac being saved where he was supposed to die

The timeline Sephiroth comes from this has all happened already.

The Ghosts in Final Fantasy VII: Remake always try to make sure events stay the same if something tries to alter the timeline the ghosts appear and attack and try to make sure everything happens as it previously had happened such as saving Barretts life after Sephiroth stabs him in President Shinra's office

But since Zac life was saved years prior more has changed in the world.

Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game. Also Red as well as the entire party will see cutscenes from Final Fantasy VII of things that have happened in the future.

I posted spoilers above but again you answered back not acknowledging if you even played Final Fantasy VII Remake.

The people who are still saying they are waiting to buy Final Fantasy VII Remake until the 'full game' has been released pretty much by that statement you can tell they haven't played Final Fantasy VII Remake or understand what it is and what is happening. At this point the events that happened in Final Fantasy VII will not happen at all as they were supposed to because Cloud and the party defied the timeline to start anew.

Also enjoy the video of Zac surviving. The scene happens as it does in Crisis Core but the Time Line changes as the Ghosts appear and Zac survives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cw2xzU6MOE...nel=AMHarbinger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cw2xzU6MOE...nel=AMHarbinger

This post has been edited by His Shadow on 28th December 2020 18:08

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Posted: 28th December 2020 19:05

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Oookay. I don't know why I'm bothering, but here goes.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Have you read the spoilers I posted above?


Yes

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Or beaten Final Fantasy VII?


Also Yes. If you'd read my post you would have seen that I did say I have played, read, and/or watched most of the Compendium. Before you start, I've also finished FFVIIR.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
At this point I tried with the spoilers but that didn't work so I'll just have to come out with it.


You're an ass.

Just because you repeat the same sentences over and over in a louder voice (removing spoiler tags) doesn't mean your argument is any clearer, any smarter, or makes any more sense.

Put your post back in spoiler tags and stop being a douche.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
The people who are still saying they are waiting to buy Final Fantasy VII Remake until the 'full game' has been released pretty much by that statement you can tell they haven't played Final Fantasy VII Remake or understand what it is and what is happening.


Please stop saying this. Nobody in this thread appears to be taking this view, so I really don't understand why you feel the need to keep referring to it. Yes, you may have seen people somewhere say this, but they aren't in this conversation so perhaps try and actually engage with the people you're talking to. It's irrelevant, ignorant and implies that you simply aren't paying attention, or that you just assume you will 'win' by bludgeoning us into submission.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus and saves Zac and causes other things to change. With Sephiroth time traveling from the far future he also enlists Cloud and the party to change the time line. Even Aerith who informs the party of the Planet understanding that Sephiroth is a threat that must be defeated the time line that Sephiroth is trying to change must also change because that future the planet agrees is undesirable. (This is all shown at the near end of Final Fantasy VII Remake including Zac being saved where he was supposed to die

The timeline Sephiroth comes from this has all happened already.

The Ghosts in Final Fantasy VII: Remake always try to make sure events stay the same if something tries to alter the timeline the ghosts appear and attack and try to make sure everything happens as it previously had happened such as saving Barretts life after Sephiroth stabs him in President Shinra's office

But since Zac life was saved years prior more has changed in the world.

Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game. Also Red as well as the entire party will see cutscenes from Final Fantasy VII of things that have happened in the future.


Look, I get that you think this is fact. But it isn't. It's a theory. It's a theory that is a possible interpretation of what we see happen in FFVIIR, especially at the end. But what I have repeatedly asked you for is an explanation of why you feel this theory is correct. I ask because your (or rather, somebody else's that you're mindlessly repeating) theory makes several assumptions that I cannot see the justification for. I did, however, ask you if you could help to explain so that I can see if I'm missing something and possibly decide if the theory is more convincing.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to have any interest in helping me do that; which seems a little perverse, since you're so hell bent on asserting that you're right and everybody else is an idiot.

As such, I'm left with the holes in your theory and no support from you to patch over them. So here, explain these:

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Where's the evidence that anybody time travels? There's no indication in DoC that Sephiroth is anything other than still just a sentient consciousness in the lifestream. He may be more powerful (undetermined), but there's nothing to suggest any ability to time travel.


Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
and saves Zac


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
I don't recall there being any indication that Sephiroth saves Zack specifically, but even if this is true, it forces a larger question. For your theory to stand up, saving Zack has to have already happened before anything we play in FFVIIR, and yet somehow we still play a game where Cloud has taken Zack's memory, hairstyle, uniform, and most impportantly SWORD. We also play a game where Zack never came back to Aerith (which in all likelihood he would have had he survived).


It just doesn't stack up, and you offer nothing to explain this flaw. It's clear that something weird is going on with the ending and it does create a lot of questions for how FFVII and FFVIIR relate to each other, but your theory does not answer them.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game


Again, where is your evidence for this? It's just an assumption. Yes, I know what you're referring to here -
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the whispers Rubrum, Viridi, and Croceo in one of the final battles
- but there is no evidence that I am aware of which confirms it to be true. Actually, there is evidence which implies it is untrue, because
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the fighting styles of these three whispers mirror those of Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo from Advent Children.


So yeah, for the last time, please either provide some NEW information to support your theories, or please stop repeating them and expecting us to swallow it.

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Posted: 28th December 2020 21:24

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I borrowed the game from a friend and truth be told, I put it down and walked away. Game related trauma aside (I was around some really REAALY bad people) VII just never resonated with me. Which is really odd because it fits into the bizarre niche genres that I go towards.

While I do like seeing Cloud and Tifa characterized better, the overwhelming stereotyping of other characters was painful and entirely a turn off. The combat system is great and I have no complaints about it, so good on them. For me the nail in the coffin, so to speak, was the seemingly endless bits of new content that felt like badly written fanfiction. To be frank, I liked Advent Children for all of three watches and subsequent games had me gritting my teeth until it became unbearable. Some characters feel like sorry attempts at anime tropes and others feel like blatant rips of anime characters reskinned. I dis not pick this up to suddenly be playing a weird amalgamation of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and the endless stream of shonen anime that is popular right now. I understand that it is probably a large influence, but come on...I can't take take this game seriously.

All of this combined with an incredibly toxic fanbase that's been around since the base game came out (I admit that being a convention goer and a tiktok user makes this a bigger deal for me than others) has just turned me off the story as a whole. And now with Cloud and Sephiroth in Smash, I'm just done with VII entirely. I'll keep the few good fans I know close to me, but I no longer have any interest in this game. I'm really disappointed in you Square Enix.

And before I leave: I really don't judge anyone for liking it, it really is a fun system and has a lot of good things in it. This is not an attempt at an attack and I am cheering you all on as you continue to love the story.

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Posted: 28th December 2020 22:00

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Quote (Stiltzkin @ 28th December 2020 14:05)
Oookay. I don't know why I'm bothering, but here goes.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Have you read the spoilers I posted above?


Yes

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Or beaten Final Fantasy VII?


Also Yes. If you'd read my post you would have seen that I did say I have played, read, and/or watched most of the Compendium. Before you start, I've also finished FFVIIR.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
At this point I tried with the spoilers but that didn't work so I'll just have to come out with it.


You're an ass.

Just because you repeat the same sentences over and over in a louder voice (removing spoiler tags) doesn't mean your argument is any clearer, any smarter, or makes any more sense.

Put your post back in spoiler tags and stop being a douche.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
The people who are still saying they are waiting to buy Final Fantasy VII Remake until the 'full game' has been released pretty much by that statement you can tell they haven't played Final Fantasy VII Remake or understand what it is and what is happening.


Please stop saying this. Nobody in this thread appears to be taking this view, so I really don't understand why you feel the need to keep referring to it. Yes, you may have seen people somewhere say this, but they aren't in this conversation so perhaps try and actually engage with the people you're talking to. It's irrelevant, ignorant and implies that you simply aren't paying attention, or that you just assume you will 'win' by bludgeoning us into submission.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus and saves Zac and causes other things to change. With Sephiroth time traveling from the far future he also enlists Cloud and the party to change the time line. Even Aerith who informs the party of the Planet understanding that Sephiroth is a threat that must be defeated the time line that Sephiroth is trying to change must also change because that future the planet agrees is undesirable. (This is all shown at the near end of Final Fantasy VII Remake including Zac being saved where he was supposed to die

The timeline Sephiroth comes from this has all happened already.

The Ghosts in Final Fantasy VII: Remake always try to make sure events stay the same if something tries to alter the timeline the ghosts appear and attack and try to make sure everything happens as it previously had happened such as saving Barretts life after Sephiroth stabs him in President Shinra's office

But since Zac life was saved years prior more has changed in the world.

Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game. Also Red as well as the entire party will see cutscenes from Final Fantasy VII of things that have happened in the future.


Look, I get that you think this is fact. But it isn't. It's a theory. It's a theory that is a possible interpretation of what we see happen in FFVIIR, especially at the end. But what I have repeatedly asked you for is an explanation of why you feel this theory is correct. I ask because your (or rather, somebody else's that you're mindlessly repeating) theory makes several assumptions that I cannot see the justification for. I did, however, ask you if you could help to explain so that I can see if I'm missing something and possibly decide if the theory is more convincing.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to have any interest in helping me do that; which seems a little perverse, since you're so hell bent on asserting that you're right and everybody else is an idiot.

As such, I'm left with the holes in your theory and no support from you to patch over them. So here, explain these:

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Where's the evidence that anybody time travels? There's no indication in DoC that Sephiroth is anything other than still just a sentient consciousness in the lifestream. He may be more powerful (undetermined), but there's nothing to suggest any ability to time travel.


Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
and saves Zac


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
I don't recall there being any indication that Sephiroth saves Zack specifically, but even if this is true, it forces a larger question. For your theory to stand up, saving Zack has to have already happened before anything we play in FFVIIR, and yet somehow we still play a game where Cloud has taken Zack's memory, hairstyle, uniform, and most impportantly SWORD. We also play a game where Zack never came back to Aerith (which in all likelihood he would have had he survived).


It just doesn't stack up, and you offer nothing to explain this flaw. It's clear that something weird is going on with the ending and it does create a lot of questions for how FFVII and FFVIIR relate to each other, but your theory does not answer them.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game


Again, where is your evidence for this? It's just an assumption. Yes, I know what you're referring to here -
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the whispers Rubrum, Viridi, and Croceo in one of the final battles
- but there is no evidence that I am aware of which confirms it to be true. Actually, there is evidence which implies it is untrue, because
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the fighting styles of these three whispers mirror those of Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo from Advent Children.


So yeah, for the last time, please either provide some NEW information to support your theories, or please stop repeating them and expecting us to swallow it.

Well if we are going to be using insults and names directed at users I am not going to respond. I would use the block option if that was enabled.

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Posted: 30th December 2020 09:14

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Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 22:00)
Quote (Stiltzkin @ 28th December 2020 14:05)
Oookay. I don't know why I'm bothering, but here goes.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Have you read the spoilers I posted above?


Yes

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Or beaten Final Fantasy VII?


Also Yes. If you'd read my post you would have seen that I did say I have played, read, and/or watched most of the Compendium. Before you start, I've also finished FFVIIR.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
At this point I tried with the spoilers but that didn't work so I'll just have to come out with it.


You're an ass.

Just because you repeat the same sentences over and over in a louder voice (removing spoiler tags) doesn't mean your argument is any clearer, any smarter, or makes any more sense.

Put your post back in spoiler tags and stop being a douche.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
The people who are still saying they are waiting to buy Final Fantasy VII Remake until the 'full game' has been released pretty much by that statement you can tell they haven't played Final Fantasy VII Remake or understand what it is and what is happening.


Please stop saying this. Nobody in this thread appears to be taking this view, so I really don't understand why you feel the need to keep referring to it. Yes, you may have seen people somewhere say this, but they aren't in this conversation so perhaps try and actually engage with the people you're talking to. It's irrelevant, ignorant and implies that you simply aren't paying attention, or that you just assume you will 'win' by bludgeoning us into submission.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus and saves Zac and causes other things to change. With Sephiroth time traveling from the far future he also enlists Cloud and the party to change the time line. Even Aerith who informs the party of the Planet understanding that Sephiroth is a threat that must be defeated the time line that Sephiroth is trying to change must also change because that future the planet agrees is undesirable. (This is all shown at the near end of Final Fantasy VII Remake including Zac being saved where he was supposed to die

The timeline Sephiroth comes from this has all happened already.

The Ghosts in Final Fantasy VII: Remake always try to make sure events stay the same if something tries to alter the timeline the ghosts appear and attack and try to make sure everything happens as it previously had happened such as saving Barretts life after Sephiroth stabs him in President Shinra's office

But since Zac life was saved years prior more has changed in the world.

Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game. Also Red as well as the entire party will see cutscenes from Final Fantasy VII of things that have happened in the future.


Look, I get that you think this is fact. But it isn't. It's a theory. It's a theory that is a possible interpretation of what we see happen in FFVIIR, especially at the end. But what I have repeatedly asked you for is an explanation of why you feel this theory is correct. I ask because your (or rather, somebody else's that you're mindlessly repeating) theory makes several assumptions that I cannot see the justification for. I did, however, ask you if you could help to explain so that I can see if I'm missing something and possibly decide if the theory is more convincing.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to have any interest in helping me do that; which seems a little perverse, since you're so hell bent on asserting that you're right and everybody else is an idiot.

As such, I'm left with the holes in your theory and no support from you to patch over them. So here, explain these:

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Where's the evidence that anybody time travels? There's no indication in DoC that Sephiroth is anything other than still just a sentient consciousness in the lifestream. He may be more powerful (undetermined), but there's nothing to suggest any ability to time travel.


Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
and saves Zac


Possible spoilers: highlight to view
I don't recall there being any indication that Sephiroth saves Zack specifically, but even if this is true, it forces a larger question. For your theory to stand up, saving Zack has to have already happened before anything we play in FFVIIR, and yet somehow we still play a game where Cloud has taken Zack's memory, hairstyle, uniform, and most impportantly SWORD. We also play a game where Zack never came back to Aerith (which in all likelihood he would have had he survived).


It just doesn't stack up, and you offer nothing to explain this flaw. It's clear that something weird is going on with the ending and it does create a lot of questions for how FFVII and FFVIIR relate to each other, but your theory does not answer them.

Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 18:41)
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game


Again, where is your evidence for this? It's just an assumption. Yes, I know what you're referring to here -
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the whispers Rubrum, Viridi, and Croceo in one of the final battles
- but there is no evidence that I am aware of which confirms it to be true. Actually, there is evidence which implies it is untrue, because
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the fighting styles of these three whispers mirror those of Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo from Advent Children.


So yeah, for the last time, please either provide some NEW information to support your theories, or please stop repeating them and expecting us to swallow it.

Well if we are going to be using insults and names directed at users I am not going to respond. I would use the block option if that was enabled.


I dunno his shadow does come off a bit condescending.

I mean i didn't beat the prequel to ff7 nor did i watch the movie but the game has stuff.

I'm judging by the 2 games of ff7 i played:

FF7 original beat it multiple times just to prove to fanboys/fangirls that i played it and disliked cloud and sephy as characters.

Played crisis core but didn't beat it, put it down and eventually psp broke so couldn't play no more.

I'm right now in the area where you dress up like a girl on cloud strife.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 30th December 2020 18:28

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Posted: 30th December 2020 23:26

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I'm pretty sure the idea that FF7R is a sequel is a crackpot "theory".

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Posted: 31st December 2020 03:04

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Careful GMH, you should never tell a crackpot they are a crackpot - it upsets them.

... and then they won't reply.

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Posted: 4th July 2021 10:03

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Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 17:41)
Quote (Stiltzkin @ 26th December 2020 16:24)
... Sequel...

user posted image

You know, you'd have a much better chance of engaging with other people on here and encouraging them to agree with your PoV if you dropped the arrogant assumption that everybody else is wrong and you're the only one who can be right. You also don't help yourself by making some pretty basic errors which utterly undermine your assertion that you're right and we're wrong. I mean, Red VIII? You might want to work on your arithmetic.

I've played/watched/read pretty much all of Compendium of FFVII, but I don't know of anything that supports this theory of yours. Is there any supporting evidence?

Have you read the spoilers I posted above? Or beaten Final Fantasy VII? At this point I tried with the spoilers but that didn't work so I'll just have to come out with it.

Sephiroth time travels after the events of Dirge of Cerberus and saves Zac and causes other things to change. With Sephiroth time traveling from the far future he also enlists Cloud and the party to change the time line. Even Aerith who informs the party of the Planet understanding that Sephiroth is a threat that must be defeated the time line that Sephiroth is trying to change must also change because that future the planet agrees is undesirable. (This is all shown at the near end of Final Fantasy VII Remake including Zac being saved where he was supposed to die

The timeline Sephiroth comes from this has all happened already.

The Ghosts in Final Fantasy VII: Remake always try to make sure events stay the same if something tries to alter the timeline the ghosts appear and attack and try to make sure everything happens as it previously had happened such as saving Barretts life after Sephiroth stabs him in President Shinra's office

But since Zac life was saved years prior more has changed in the world.

Also you will battle Future Cloud, Future Tifa, and Future Barrett in Ghost form near the end of the game. Also Red as well as the entire party will see cutscenes from Final Fantasy VII of things that have happened in the future.

I posted spoilers above but again you answered back not acknowledging if you even played Final Fantasy VII Remake.

The people who are still saying they are waiting to buy Final Fantasy VII Remake until the 'full game' has been released pretty much by that statement you can tell they haven't played Final Fantasy VII Remake or understand what it is and what is happening. At this point the events that happened in Final Fantasy VII will not happen at all as they were supposed to because Cloud and the party defied the timeline to start anew.

Also enjoy the video of Zac surviving. The scene happens as it does in Crisis Core but the Time Line changes as the Ghosts appear and Zac survives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cw2xzU6MOE...nel=AMHarbinger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cw2xzU6MOE...nel=AMHarbinger

I agree with stilkzskin i wouldn't call it a sequel, and i do think you are out of line.

Also so far: It seems to have elements from the OG FF7 maybe a few from prequel.

Seems more like a retelling of the original with attempting to fill in more gaps.

As for how far i am: I am currently doing squats with jules part.



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Posted: 7th January 2022 23:20

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Quote (His Shadow @ 28th December 2020 11:41)
Also enjoy the video of Zac surviving. The scene happens as it does in Crisis Core but the Time Line changes as the Ghosts appear and Zac survives

This topic came to mind as I was reading my new copy of Final Fantasy VII Remake Material Ultimania that I got at Christmas (it's really cool, everyone should AmaCoN a copy! https://amzn.to/3t8aT8i ). On page 258-259, from a canonical Square Enix source, the timeline explicitly says that Zack does not survive.

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Posted: 28th February 2023 16:50

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Bumping this thread since I've finished Crisis Core Reunion now; I've talked about this some in Discord and likely everyone who wants to know has probably sought out that information already, but

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Zack definitely does not survive in the remastered game.

Now, does that necessarily mean anything for Rebirth? Not really, because there are many ways to retcon things to make the two disparate endings work. Even my 11-year-old has been coming up with ways. But the Remake team is certainly doubling down on having Zack around in some way, because the coda to the Yuffie DLC messes with the status quo even more than the ending to Remake does.


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Posted: 7th August 2023 02:24

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I've never actually played this game and I've heard some conflicting things about it but I must say the concept of the characters in a remake becoming (essentially) aware that they are in a remake and take up the goal of trying to change their destiny sounds straight-up brilliant to me.

...that is, if that is indeed what happens in the game, lol!
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Posted: 7th March 2024 18:00

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Quote (Rangers51 @ 28th February 2023 11:50)
Bumping this thread since I've finished Crisis Core Reunion now; I've talked about this some in Discord and likely everyone who wants to know has probably sought out that information already, but

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Zack definitely does not survive in the remastered game.

Now, does that necessarily mean anything for Rebirth? Not really, because there are many ways to retcon things to make the two disparate endings work. Even my 11-year-old has been coming up with ways. But the Remake team is certainly doubling down on having Zack around in some way, because the coda to the Yuffie DLC messes with the status quo even more than the ending to Remake does.

I am glad you played the remastered form of Crisis Core but remember
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Crisis Core was in the old timeline.


Keep in mind in FF7 Remake
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
with the timeline changed Zac lives
and most importantly in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Zac is still alive.


Now the game is out as I mentioned before with people doubting Claude in Grand Theft Auto III is named Claude and not Fido since many people don't understand why he was called Fido I figured time would prove me right. So I have waited three years to come back.

The problem most people had with Final Fantasy VII Remake is its not a Remake its a play on words with
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth going back in time changing things.


So well it is true Zac died in Crisis Core and was not alive in Final Fantasy VII and up until Dirge of Cerberus but after
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Sephiroth time traveled
Zac is
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
alive and well.


This post has been edited by His Shadow on 7th March 2024 18:03

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Posted: 7th March 2024 18:04

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 30th December 2020 18:26)
I'm pretty sure the idea that FF7R is a sequel is a crackpot "theory".

Now rebirth is out. Looks like I was correct. And

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Zac is now alive with the timeline changed.


They once said the world being round was a crackpot theory but time tends to prove those crackpots right.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams

This post has been edited by His Shadow on 7th March 2024 18:06

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Posted: 17th June 2024 06:51

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I'm most of the way through Rebirth now, I've got to say the entire Remake series thus far has been a love/hate thing for me. I really like the characters most of the time. They looks/sound the way I imagined them in my head while playing the original FF VII.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Aside from Cid & Vincent. Mainly Cid, who's way too peppy & friendly.


My main issues have been with gameplay & story. I mostly play JRPGs for the story, although I'd grown quite fond of turn-based/ATB combat too. Remake/Rebirth don't hit on either very well for me. The plot ghosts ("Whispers"), countless character deaths being retconned & convoluted nature of Remake + Rebirth make the story far weaker in my opinion. As for gameplay...I'm just not into the action style combat. I know a lot of people love it so I'm not looking for an argument. Just my personal taste, I guess. Ubisoft open-world busywork has been the worst offender of all so far. Why am I climbing towers to unlock map markers in a FF VII game? Weird choice.

None of this is to say that I hate Rebirth, but I don't like it quite as much as Remake. These are just some thoughts. I haven't finished the game yet, so that may change my feelings.
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Posted: 21st July 2024 18:16

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Quote (TimberManiac)
How do you feel about Rebirth vs. Remake Part 1?


Moving this over from the other topic since it's a different question. smile.gif

I also don't really have a good answer for you. There are certainly things that I think Remake does better than Rebirth, like mostly feeling like a tighter, more contained story. But that being said, I've got almost 220 hours into Rebirth now and on balance, it's one of my favorite games ever.

Now, I'm not saying it's perfect - many of the minigames feel unnecessary (even for minigames!) and the difficulty spikes in many of them are over the top, for instance. I also think there are some game design decisions that are questionable at best, with
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Aerith's sections in Chapter 13 with the Lifestream collection
at the top of my mind right now because I just finished that section on my hard mode playthrough.

But I will say this - the changes that they made to the story and the parts they've fleshed out, regardless of what kind of worldbuilding mechanic they used to make them, the gameplay and insane number of permutations you have for it with party makeup and materia loadouts, the soundtrack, so much else... it all adds up to a beautiful game as far as I'm concerned, and the only frustration that is really sticking to me is the fact that I'm not skilled enough to get a platinum trophy on it, lol.

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Posted: 29th July 2024 00:55

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About 20 years ago, I can't find the thread, but there was a topic all about pronunciation. Sabin was one, but the reason I'm posting?

Cait Sith.

I have always said "Kate Sith". And I remember arguing with people because the official real deal is "Kite Shee" or something that seemed unnecessary at the time.

Well I just met Cait Sith in Rebirh and....am happy to report that after 20 years I am vindicated.

Thank you Square!


Edit: I also enjoy how he says "Most folks like me!" that has to be a nod to Cait Sith being the Jar Jar Binks of the FF world 25 years ago. Nobody liked him lol.

But I actually do so far. Love the Gaelic accent.

This post has been edited by Tidu-who on 29th July 2024 00:58

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Posted: 29th July 2024 12:16

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Quote (Tidu-who @ 28th July 2024 18:55)
Well I just met Cait Sith in Rebirh and....am happy to report that after 20 years I am vindicated.

It's still wrong. smile.gif

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Posted: 29th July 2024 17:55

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Maybe I would attempt the platinum but I don't tend to have the patience for more than one playthrough these days and wow, this is a big game.

But personally I enjoyed this game a lot, quite a bit more than Remake part 1. Easily one of the best PS5 games I have played, possibly the best one.
I felt the side quests in the previous game were pretty poor and while they weren't quite Witcher 3 level in this game, I felt there was a huge improvement in the story telling aspect.
Some of the main story aspects are a bit too ambiguous for my liking but hopefully we will see a pay off when the final game eventually arrives.

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Posted: 30th July 2024 14:17

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I am 77 hours into Rebirth, and frankly, I'm getting tired. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun game, and I am enjoying it. it's just there's so MUCH to do! And I don't have interest in doing anything else than the main story right now. I got to Chapter 12 on stream tonight and frankly,

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

felt despaired when they said "there's new quests in old areas!" like frak, am I EVER going to finish this game?


anyway, more spoilers for chapter 12:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
I got so lost in the Gold Saucer trying to advance it because there was the story marker on the map in a place I couldn't figure out how to get to, and I got VERY frustrated and almost rage quit until I accidentally ran into Cid and then figured out no, you're not supposed to go to the story marker, you're supposed to visit each of the areas in turn. GAH.

I did well on the "fights" in the play, which pleased me. I was hoping either Tifa or Aerith for the date, in that order, but got Red XIII. heh. that's fine, this is a casual playthrough so I wasn't really attempting to get any particular character, and Red XIII was fun.


I did do one side quest on stream last night:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
the one with the Johnny clones where you are fixing up his hotel. I had already beat the Tonberry King but hadn't had Steal equipped at the time, so I needed to redo the fight. It took a few tries but I successfully stole his crown on the third try, I think? Yay! My viewer really enjoyed the clones; I thought the way they talked was fun but was more neutral on them myself.


Anyway, I'm thinking of mostly focusing on the main story going forward, but I worry that I won't be a high enough level for the final boss fight, as I've heard it's pretty difficult. I'm in my early 40s right now.

I started streaming this on April 13th and I'm STILL working on it. Granted, only playing it two times a week for about 3 hours at a time, and I did take a few weeks off to play Dawntrail, but... I don't want to be spending the entire rest of the year playing this one game. So yeah, probably will just focus on main quests going forward, and pray I can beat the final boss within a few tries.

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Posted: 2nd August 2024 19:39

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I think it's "ket shee" actually.

Not that I really care though. I also say "kate sith" lol

I will definitely say "Aeris" though, rather than "Aerith".

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Posted: 16th August 2024 03:51

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Quote (AltheaValara @ 30th July 2024 08:17)
I started streaming this on April 13th and I'm STILL working on it. Granted, only playing it two times a week for about 3 hours at a time, and I did take a few weeks off to play Dawntrail, but... I don't want to be spending the entire rest of the year playing this one game. So yeah, probably will just focus on main quests going forward, and pray I can beat the final boss within a few tries.

APRIL 13th to AUGUST 15th. FOUR MONTHS. That's a long game! Okay, I could have played it much faster had I not been streaming it, but boy am I glad I *did* stream it, because I can't foresee myself replaying Rebirth anytime soon.

Spoilers for... chapter 13, I think? and onward, including final boss stuff.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view
The Temple of the Ancients part was WAY too long, and I got quite bored and frustrated with it. Part of the problem was that I was playing on the Normal / Classic difficulty, and it was too hard for me. I am not good at action games, I know it, and I much prefer to just mash one button to win. On Normal, I got to a boss I could not beat. I eventually dropped the difficulty to Easy, which was almost TOO easy, but I left it on Easy because I was just ready to be DONE with the game and didn't want to struggle anymore.

Even dropping it to Easy, I still quit the stream early when I got a bit further in the temple and discovered ANOTHER new game mechanic. I understand *why* they made Aerith gather the Lifestream to her, but it was just more than I wanted to deal with after the punishing boss fight I had struggled with earlier that evening.

I had heard the final boss was tough, and that all your party members needed to be equipped well, but on Easy it wasn't a problem at ALL except for the one phase with the wings that needed to be hit with elemental spells. I couldn't figure out which spells to use, though I recognized that yeah, it wanted a particular spell used at a particular time. I ended up using Comet and it worked.

I enjoyed the exploration aspects early on in the game, but definitely grew exhausted with them as time went on. I also feel that narratively, this game was not as strong as Remake. Remake got me to care about the characters and what motivated them, and I felt like they all had good reasons for moving the plot forward. In Rebirth, I felt that was missing. It didn't help that Cloud became very unlikeable when he was not in his right mind. I feel that I probably should have had sympathy for him then, but I didn't, I wanted to slap him for being so cold.

Am I glad I played it? Yes. Am I going to buy game 3 right at launch? Probably not. While Rebirth was enjoyable enough, it just didn't work for me in many ways, sad to say. It certainly didn't make me eager to play the third game, unlike Remake which made me want more.


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