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My first completion was before the year 2000. I did not have a ton of website spoiling it for me like people do today. I did beat the game though I did not get everything. I missed Gogo and Umaro the first time with a host items and some spells.

I took Ultima, Cure, and Cure 2 to save my party. I was around level 50 with no optimized build. What was your first time like?

Sory if this is a repeat. This is to engage how good you are. It is easy to look up something after the fact over personal discovery.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/Greatermaxim

Terra - LV 99 - HP 9999 - MP 999

Equipment - - - Abilities

Illumina - - - - - Fight
Genji Shield - - Morph
Oath Veil - - - - Magic
Minerva - - - - - Item
Ribbon
Economizer

I beat it for the first time when it released in 1994. Yes, it was without guides, and it was without Shadow, Gogo, or Umaro. I'm not sure it provides any insight into how "good" I am, sorry, but then, I don't put much weight on that anyway.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I know what you mean. I forgot Shadow the first time too. People are not so cocky when they have to figure things out for themselves.

That puts you and I at a good age, Ranger. The kids these days do not know what it was like without the internet. You actually had to go into the dungeon instead of reading it online first. lol.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/Greatermaxim

Terra - LV 99 - HP 9999 - MP 999

Equipment - - - Abilities

Illumina - - - - - Fight
Genji Shield - - Morph
Oath Veil - - - - Magic
Minerva - - - - - Item
Ribbon
Economizer

Okay, but as someone who literally owns a website that contains guides for video games, don't think that I'm going to look down on anyone who uses one. I think you might be barking up the wrong tree here.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Trying to gage how interesting a game is without looking a guide. We will never know the extent of this for any game. If there were no guides and no one to ask how would someone beat it? I suppose I could make a topic on it.

To answer it would take longer for some over others.

There is a topic begging to be asked.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 9th November 2023 04:46

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https://www.youtube.com/user/Greatermaxim

Terra - LV 99 - HP 9999 - MP 999

Equipment - - - Abilities

Illumina - - - - - Fight
Genji Shield - - Morph
Oath Veil - - - - Magic
Minerva - - - - - Item
Ribbon
Economizer

Quote

Trying to gage how interesting a game is without looking a guide.

I think there's a difference between "interesting/engaging" and "challenging". Games can be engaging without needing a guide, or even much in the way of instructions (I am thinking of casual games here, like Match 3 games, Word Search, Boggle- and Scrabble-like games).

A game can also be interesting and challenging. Some people will find comfort in having a guide to rely on (it's me, I'm some people; I routinely check out video guides for content in FFXIV before I run it), others have fun with brute forcing it. I don't think having to rely on a guide makes you any less of a gamer than those who do it themselves. People obviously find value in guides, otherwise this site wouldn't have existed as long as it has.

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We will never know the extent of this for any game.

I disagree. SOMEONE has to be the first to play a game and make a guide for it! And I'm fairly confident that there's plenty of people who dislike relying on guides and do it all themselves. The world is filled with all sorts of different people!

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If there were no guides and no one to ask how would someone beat it?

...seriously? You cannot fathom that people beat games without guides? Look, I'm fairly old by gaming standards: my very first video game was PONG, for crying out loud. We didn't have guides for games when I was a kid! You explored and tried things and figured things out for yourself. Not only is it a great challenge and good use of thinking skills, it can really heighten the experience of playing a game.

I remember playing a text adventure once, called Jigsaw which IIRC was by Graham Nelson:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

The game is pretty much about time travel. Someone is going back in time and stopping events from happening, which screws up the future. The player character has to take action to make sure events happen as they were supposed to. When I realized I would have to make the shot to kill Archduke Ferdinand and set off World War I? that was SUCH a powerful moment. The amount of dread and horror I felt was overwhelming. I played this game without a guide, and I am glad I did because that moment is still etched in my head over twenty years later.

R51 said:

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Okay, but as someone who literally owns a website that contains guides for video games, don't think that I'm going to look down on anyone who uses one. I think you might be barking up the wrong tree here.

I'd agree. Even just giving an example where I DIDN'T use a guide and found the moment powerful, I'd say there is no shame in using guides. I appreciate Mizzteq's guides for FFXIV because she doesn't do story spoilers, just focuses on mechanics (unlike some official guides I can think of: yes, FFVII Brady Guide, I am looking at you).

For single player games, I try not to look at guides unless I'm truly and honestly stuck, but I'm glad they exist these days. I'm older now, and while I'm a fairly patient person, I don't have as much free time to spend hashing out solutions (and I have more free time than the average adult!).

So, in a nutshell, I'd say my points are:

1. There are people who exist who don't use guides.
2. There are people who exist who DO use guides.
3. Both are completely valid ways of playing video games.

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Watch me play games on Twitch!
Schedule:
Mondays & Thursdays: Final Fantasy VII -Rebirth-
Saturdays: Final Fantasy XIV Side Quests (or maybe more Rebirth, we'll see!)
7:30pm - 10:30pm Central or thereabouts

Glad to get this cleared up.

You do not need to know everything about the game to enjoy the game. I did create a thread about how good you are in your circle. Trying to find a good way to wrap up my gaming career.

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https://www.youtube.com/user/Greatermaxim

Terra - LV 99 - HP 9999 - MP 999

Equipment - - - Abilities

Illumina - - - - - Fight
Genji Shield - - Morph
Oath Veil - - - - Magic
Minerva - - - - - Item
Ribbon
Economizer

Classic Eagle Caller post lol - always a joy.

If I'm playing an RPG that I know I'm only going to play once, and I also know that there is a lot of missable content., then I'm going to probably use a guide or at least occasionally peak at one.

I'm also old enough to have not had the internet as a kid

This post has been edited by ShaneT12 on 10th November 2023 20:32

Quote (Eagle Caller @ 3rd November 2023 19:41)

I know what you mean. I forgot Shadow the first time too. People are not so cocky when they have to figure things out for themselves.

That puts you and I at a good age, Ranger. The kids these days do not know what it was like without the internet. You actually had to go into the dungeon instead of reading it online first. lol.

Just for the record, there were indeed guides before widespread internet use. Sometimes they even came with the game!

I also beg to differ that people are less cocky without using a guide. On the contrary, game players tend to be more cocky without them, because how "good" you are suddenly becomes more of a thing.

To rap it up.

I am glad I read the guide

Prevents me from committing suicide

i do not need a guide

I do not let my enemies slide

I am glad I read the guide

It helped me along with the ride

I do not need a guide

I can make the mystery adequately subside

Do I really need a guide

It is my own decision I can confide

That is a rap.

This post has been edited by Eagle Caller on 14th November 2023 12:49

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https://www.youtube.com/user/Greatermaxim

Terra - LV 99 - HP 9999 - MP 999

Equipment - - - Abilities

Illumina - - - - - Fight
Genji Shield - - Morph
Oath Veil - - - - Magic
Minerva - - - - - Item
Ribbon
Economizer

I forgot when in my first playthrough of FF6 I started using a guide. I'm pretty sure I used one at some point because otherwise I wouldn't have known how to get a number of different secrets, from missable characters to the convenience of not dealing with most of the Fanatics' Tower.

These days, though, I think I have something of a bad habit going to the internet look up stuff whenever I'm concerned that I'm missing something (this is mainly about games where this would be relevant, such as RPGs). Sometimes this seems to get in the way of my enjoying a game, so I feel I need to re-learn how to "go with the flow" sometimes...

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current games (2024-02-19):
Fairy Fencer F ADF
Pokémon Perfect Crystal

finished so far this year:
Gato Roboto
drowning, drowning
New Super Mario Bros.
TMNT 3: Radical Rescue

tabled: Lost Ruins