Posted: 15th August 2005 23:26
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![]() Posts: 46 Joined: 10/2/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() |
First off, I'd like to say that I am a complete newbie to hacking. I'm familiar with hex editing as a form of cheating, but thats it.
My idea would be to create an entire new game based on elements mostly from FF3 US, with a few sprites from FF IV and V here and there. Rather than modifying a FF3 ROM, I'd simply create a new game with these elements. I've downloaded a few hacking programs, but they don't seem to work. One of the hacking programs, which was specifically designed for hacking FF3, would not accept my FF3 Rom when I loaded it. I got a message saying that 'this is not the US ROM version of FF3.' Should I have gone somewhere else? If I need a specific type of FF3 US ROM for hacking, I'd like to know where I can get it. More later... Moderator Edit Please note that talking about where to get ROMs and/or asking for them is verboten around here. -R51 This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 16th August 2005 00:24 |
Post #93989
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Posted: 15th August 2005 23:51
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![]() Posts: 1,640 Joined: 21/6/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I'm confused. You don't want to modify the FF3us ROM, yet you're looking for the ROM and editors to edit the ROM. Seems contradictory to me.
Anyways, if you want programs to edit to the ROM, don't use FF3Edit (which is what oyu're using right now) ever. It is very buggy and glitchy and WILL mess up your ROM. Pick up FF3SE (has an Atma Weapon icon). That will be your primary sprite editor. I assume you have a hex editor already, but if not, pick one of those up, too. I prefer XVI32. Maybe picking up FF3ME wouldn't be bad idea, either, but I like to edit using the hex editor only. All these can be found at www.zophar.net, I'm sure. I hope you are aware that what are intend to undertake will take an incredibly long time, and will be very difficult. None of the sprites from either FFIV or FFV have enough frames to be ported directly to a FFVI ROM. Rather, you have to make all the frames that are missing from scratch yourself. This, in itself takes a long time, and is difficult to make sprites that look right. I don't know what you mean exactly when you say "with elements from FFIV and FFV". Let me tell you right now, if you want to make the animations from either game, forget about it. Custom animation script is nearly impossible for a new hacker...there are very few experienced hackers who can do it. If you intend to make enemies from both games, that, too, will take some time to learn, but it can be easily done (I have done it many times over). I'm not trying to dissaude you from attempting this project, but don't expect immediate results, especially since you're new to this. I'm here to help if you need me. Good luck! ![]() -------------------- Is PJ |
Post #93990
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Posted: 15th August 2005 23:54
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![]() Posts: 46 Joined: 10/2/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() |
Okay. This game will be like a soap opera, with several different stories entertwining, kinda like Pulp Fiction. No main plot, just a bunch of stories.
All characters will start at level 99 with max equipment. Bosses will be beaten using strategy, and each boss will have a different one. No exp. No leviling up. More time for gameplay. Now, the main characters in this game will be Leo and Sabin. Twin Brothers they are, training under Duncan to become what for now I'll call 'Bolt Knights'. Working title Leo will have the magic sword ability that Mystic Knights from FF. Fire, Ice, Bolt, Holy, a healing sword spell for restoring HP, and possibly a status healer. No ideas for Sabin yet. Might keep him as is. Setzer will be the Don of the mafia. Ziegfried and Shadow will be his top assasins. Shadow and Ziegfried are bitter rivals, and may duke it out to the death near the end. Shadow will be dispatched to assasinate Leo at one point. Locke will work for Setzer as an underboss. Celes and Terra will be princesses. Kefka will be a maniacal wizard, trying to control, not the world, but a big chunk of it. He'll have control of an object called the 'Gospel Grip'. I plan on making this thing a piece of magicite colored silver. Strago will be a master wizard. He'll start the game with all spells learned, and all lores mastered. He will be summoned by Gestahl (Terra and Celes' father, king) to battle Kefka. Gestahl feels threatened by Kefka's growing power. Strago, in his old age, accepts the challenge, but decides he needs to sharpen his skills before attempting such a task. So he decides to pay the Czar Dragon a visit. The Czar Dragon is friendly in this game. He'll spend time with STrago to help him sharpen his skills. Eventually, Strago will best the Czar Dragon, and he will then be ready for the task of defeating Kefka. A big wizards duel takes place. Haven't decided who wins. I'm thinking that Setzer will dispatch Shadow to assasinate Leo on an indirect order from Kefka, who senses the danger from Leo and his growing abilities. Just an idea I'm toying around with. Is it possibly to create new cities? And HUGE armies. I'm not talking about the few sprites Square threw in for the Empire's so called 'invasion' of Doma, I'm talking hundreds of helmeted Empire soldiers, so many that the screen will have to scroll down to view them all. HUGE battle(s). The guards of Narshe, the Doma Sentries, and the Chochobo riding guys from Figaro versus the empires footsoldiers and armored Magitek riders. Of course, all the names will be changed, and there will be no 'Empire' or 'Figaro'. Like I said, a whole new game, a whole new story, only using the elements from FFVi to create an entirely new game. I know, this is a VERY ambitious idea, but is it possible? INPUT NEEDED!!! Anyway, a lot of characters still haven't been given roles yet. So any input would be appreciated. This post has been edited by Piffer on 15th August 2005 23:56 |
Post #93991
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Posted: 16th August 2005 00:39
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![]() Posts: 1,640 Joined: 21/6/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote All characters will start at level 99 with max equipment. Bosses will be beaten using strategy, and each boss will have a different one. No exp. No leviling up. More time for gameplay. The boss battles will certainly be interesting, but I can see the random encounter battles being very tiresome and annoying after awhile. There aren't THAT many strategies that you can make for enemies, as you'll soon find out. There are obviously those who you have to attack physically, those who you have to attack magically, some who can't be hit with certain elements, some with complex counterattacks, and others who require a certain number of elements to be eliminated. However, there are a LOT of bosses in FFVI, and making a different strategy for each will be difficult. Quote Leo will have the magic sword ability that Mystic Knights from FF. Fire, Ice, Bolt, Holy, a healing sword spell for restoring HP, and possibly a status healer. This will be impossible for you to do, unless you employ someone with a working knowledge of ASM and FFVI. Even I do not know ASM and I have been hacking for a few years. It takes awhile to get good enough to actually accomplish complex changes such as what you intend to do with Magic Sword....unless, of course, you are RuneLancer. ![]() Quote Is it possibly to create new cities? Not that I know of, no. It is very, very, very difficult to simply edit a map, let alone make an entirely new one. Quote And HUGE armies. I'm not talking about the few sprites Square threw in for the Empire's so called 'invasion' of Doma, I'm talking hundreds of helmeted Empire soldiers, so many that the screen will have to scroll down to view them all. HUGE battle(s). The guards of Narshe, the Doma Sentries, and the Chochobo riding guys from Figaro versus the empires footsoldiers and armored Magitek riders. Of course, all the names will be changed, and there will be no 'Empire' or 'Figaro'. Like I said, a whole new game, a whole new story, only using the elements from FFVi to create an entirely new game. These are both possible, and they both require some serious event hacking. Not as hard to learn as animation script programming, but harder than AI script programming. I haven't done too much with events yet, but I will be in a bit. For your plot, are Sabin and Leo going to be the only characters in your party, or does Strago join you after training? What you COULD do is have Strago have only a few Lores at the beginning (like half), and then after the CzarDragon event, give him the remaining Blue Magic spells. I believe that can be done via events, but if not, I suppose you can just have CzarDragon use all the Lores you need. As far as I can tell, those three are the only possible members of your party. That's bad news for your monsters; with only two members, it will be even HARDER to make unique scripts, since you can't have instant-kill counterattacks, or banish-from-battle attacks (well, you can, but it would become devilishly hard to win). -------------------- Is PJ |
Post #93993
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Posted: 16th August 2005 00:59
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![]() Posts: 1,796 Joined: 15/11/2003 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() |
also you'll need FF3usSpriteEd.exe
since FF3SE (which is a great sprite editor) doesn't edit the riding/ dead in battle sprites also note* when you load sprites into FF3SE it'll change the palette in use to that of the sprite while FF3usSpriteEd will force the sprites to alter their colors to that of the palette so its good to have both they're what I'm currently using for my sprite hacking of FFvi -------------------- "Have you ever seen a baby do that before?" |
Post #93994
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Posted: 16th August 2005 01:06
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![]() Posts: 46 Joined: 10/2/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() |
Hey Ceasar, thanks! If I choose to pursue this project with furvor, I'll probably be looking to you for advice a lot.
Alright, as for your comment on the magic sword ability: What if for each technique, Leo just waves his sword around, as if doing his 'Shock' technique, and then the appropriate FF3 spell animation happens? This would be a decent substitute for the Magic sword technique if it were at all possible. As for editing the map and creating cities, it may be very hard, but I'll tackle that one when I come to it. I have to start small. Event hacking is something I'll have to learn, but if it's possible, I'll do it. Now, like I said before, I have to start small. Let's say, I hack the FF3 ROM, strip it down to bare nothing, except one cutscene. Thats it. One cutscene and the ROM is over. Using two sprites in a bare room having a short conversation. Thats it. If I can accomplish this, I'll have completed my first step. |
Post #93995
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Posted: 16th August 2005 01:24
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![]() Posts: 1,640 Joined: 21/6/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote Alright, as for your comment on the magic sword ability: What if for each technique, Leo just waves his sword around, as if doing his 'Shock' technique, and then the appropriate FF3 spell animation happens? This would be a decent substitute for the Magic sword technique if it were at all possible. Yes and no. But mainly yes. You can edit a skill to use that aniamtion instead of, say, the blue oval thingy before SwdTech. You could simply have it so he spins the sword, and then play an animation. Quote As for editing the map and creating cities, it may be very hard, but I'll tackle that one when I come to it. I have to start small. By very hard, I mean it hasn't been discovered how to change it yet. It's impossible as of now. -------------------- Is PJ |
Post #93998
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Posted: 16th August 2005 01:42
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![]() Posts: 2,350 Joined: 19/9/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() |
Quote (Caesar @ 15th August 2005 19:39) It takes awhile to get good enough to actually accomplish complex changes such as what you intend to do with Magic Sword....unless, of course, you are RuneLancer. :D Quite flattered. Quite flattered. :P If you're interested in ROM hacking, I suggest you have a look at my thread. It seemed to've fallen pretty much in disuse and I've stopped posting in it because I was the only one doing so, but it covers the basics of hex and how SNES ROMs hold information. Linky :) Only a handfull of people on the boards here have serious rom hacking skills. The reason for this is because of the dedication it requires, especially if you have little or not background with a low-level programming language (old DOS code-monkeys will feel right at home here.) You have to be willing to learn a lot of things and to be able to wrap your mind around completely different ways of visualising information (understanding hex is just the beginning.) Most people edit the ROM instead of hacking it and fall back on programs. This is hardly wrong, but editors are horribly outdated considering the current knowledgebase the ROM hacking community has dredged up after tireless hours of tearing the ROM apart, and you can't edit anything worthwhile with an editor anymore. Wether you decide to ROM hack or to just edit the ROM is a matter of wether you're a very dedicated little dude, or wether you just want to see results right away even if you'd have to sacrifice many possibilities. That being said, here's my take on a few other things Caesar may not've mentionned. Quote All characters will start at level 99 with max equipment. Bosses will be beaten using strategy, and each boss will have a different one. No exp. No leviling up. More time for gameplay. This can easily be accomplished with an editor, even monster AI scripts. I'll leave out stuff like that, as anyone with a mouse and half a brain can pick up the knowhow to click on buttons and change things. ;) Of course what you use it for is what really matters; Caesar has brought up a couple of good points and I can't say I have much to add. Quote Leo will have the magic sword ability that Mystic Knights from FF. Fire, Ice, Bolt, Holy, a healing sword spell for restoring HP, and possibly a status healer. I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to edit the MTek skillset. Unfortunately, MTek is heavily embedded in the game's code and requires a bucketload of assembly to edit. No editor can do this, so this is where ROM hacking is the only possible way out. Even if you'd pick another skillset to edit, you'd still have to resort to some pretty solid assembly to implement element-setting abilities. This is probably not a very good idea unless you're willing to learn assembly. That's a pretty long road to go down, and many people get lost along the way thinking it'll be all fun and games. Sure, it's all fun and games allright. Just wait 'till the squirrels come... *shiver* They know, man. They know. Quote Strago will be a master wizard. He'll start the game with all spells learned, and all lores mastered. As simple as this may seem, it'll require some assembly too. Some pretty solid assembly, in fact, though nothing as complex as the swordskill you mentionned. Lores are easy to set (most editors allow it anyhow), but magic is something you'd have to edit in there yourself. You have a number of options on how to do this (such as branching to code that sets all of that character's magic learn rate to 100% when using the "set stats" script command, or just doing it right off the bat during the game's startup phase) but all of them would require a little assembly. A good first assembly hack, when you'll have learned enough of it. Has a couple of pitfalls assembly newbies could easily fall into and requires a pretty good understanding of the game's code, but nothing impossible. Quote Is it possibly to create new cities? They're stored in a pretty weird format that combines both uncompressed tiles and pre-assembled chunks of tiles. A small header byte determines wether each of the following ~8 bytes are pointers or uncompressed tiles, over and over until the whole map is covered. You have, of course, limited space, and it gets a little complicated when you consider all of the NPC/treasure/whatnot data. This is 100% possible without assembly. You'd have to carve some serious free space somewhere in the ROM to add map data, though, and it would involve a LOT of work. But it's definitely possible. However, unless someone else knows more about how maps are stored, the exact format is still partly undecoded. Best of luck with this one. ;) It'd be easier to edit an existing map (make a dungeon you won't use into a town, for instance), though you'd still have to figure out just how the map data is stored. Quote I'm talking hundreds of helmeted Empire soldiers, so many that the screen will have to scroll down to view them all. Hate to burst your bubble, but the space for NPCs is limited to 48 per map (IIRC). :P Actor data ends there; any more and you'll border into other stuff in RAM. Plus, the first 16 or so are characters, so that doesn't leave you with enough space to have a massive army. The Doma and Narshe invasion scenes pretty much push it to its limit. As for event scripts, that's quite easy to do if you have the proper knowledge. You will need to know some hex, and be very comfortable with it, however. But the repercussions event hacks have on the rest of the data is massive. You'll soon find yourself fiddling with NPC data and a bunch of other things. Here's one of my first event hacks. And here's another. These are quite old, and were I to do one now I could make something pretty insane. :P But it just goes to show you what you want to do is not only possible, it has been tried before. And let me tell you, you're getting in way over your head if this is your first hack. Don't let that discourage you, but keep in mind that you probably won't pull this off to your liking for a very long time, and definitely not by using an editor alone. Just be persistant. It's hard work, but it's not impossible. Don't forget two things: you've got one hell of a hill to climb, but even Everest was tamed by mountain climbers who, at one time, were just normal people like you and me. Edit: Quotes died out on me. :_: And jesus christ, why won't "Enable emoticons" stay off when I uncheck it, then click edit? x_x This post has been edited by Silverlance on 16th August 2005 01:51 -------------------- "Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession and the likelyhood of him sharing." |
Post #94000
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Posted: 8th September 2005 20:31
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![]() Posts: 6 Joined: 8/9/2005 ![]() |
hey all,
silverlance, you said in an earlier post that what he's trying to do will require more than just a hex editor. what does that mean? just so you know, i am also interested in learning how to hack this rom. i am reading through all your old posts on this topic! |
Post #95859
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Posted: 8th September 2005 22:29
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![]() Posts: 1,640 Joined: 21/6/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Dellenthor, RL is moving into a new apartment and has not access to the internet for aawhile (I wanna say a month, but I'm not certain). I will do my best to answer on his behalf, so your question will not be lost.
Now, I reread his post two or three times, and I cannot find where he said that it'll require more than just a hex editor. I found this, which is relatively close: Quote Don't let that discourage you, but keep in mind that you probably won't pull this off to your liking for a very long time, and definitely not by using an editor alone. If this is what you read, he means that you cannot use an editor such as FF3usME or FF3Edit to accomplish what he is trying to do. RuneLancer, and myself, are more fond of hacking using only the hex editor and nothing else, unless when using the hex editor becomes very impractical (e.g. sprite changes, world map stuff, text, etc.). Even though I am not RL, I think I can safely say that both he and I are proud of you for learning how to hack using a hex editor rather than resorting to solely using editors (that's how I interpretted your post, at least). That's the way to do it, even though it'll take you awhile. Oh, and welcome to CoN! ![]() -------------------- Is PJ |
Post #95869
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Posted: 9th September 2005 17:13
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![]() Posts: 6 Joined: 8/9/2005 ![]() |
thanks caesar, for the welcome, the response, and the 'props'
this has been a very interesting topic to me, so i am very happy to see how many others out there are into it, leading the way to awesome innovations! |
Post #95931
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Posted: 17th September 2005 21:43
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![]() Posts: 2,350 Joined: 19/9/2004 Awards: ![]() ![]() |
Hehe, I<m at my mother<s place (and dealing with a screwy keyboard that requires letters to be hit with a hammer to register) so I have a few moments. Long enough to second Caesar<s statement on how the hex editor was is the "right" way to go.
![]() (And I should be getting my connection soon. I<m signing up tomorrow; I only recently got my phone in. My lizard<s coming over soon too ![]() -------------------- "Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession and the likelyhood of him sharing." |
Post #96693
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