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I'm no moderator, nor am I an examplary poster. In fact, I'm somewhat of an unofficial board bastard, and do tend to be negative about a lot of things. Hey, some people are just like that. :) Therefore, the following post isn't going to be something I can be taken seriously on. Still, if this post is worthless coming from me, maybe someone more worthy of posting it will be inspired by it and maybe some good will arise out of this rant.

This is mostly directed at some of the newer members. I can't say much about that, seeing as I've only been on CoN for slightly less than a year. See the above paragraph as to why I'm going to go ahead and be a hypocrite by goign through with this anyways, though. :) But yeah. R-51 addressed it before, I'm sure many of the veterans (and semi-newbies like me) have mulled over it too, and now I'm posting about it. Because of semi-official board bastard status, which means I can't have the "tact" skill (class restriction...)

This isn't a race. So there's a little number under your name that says how often you've hit the "submit" button. Cute. Informative. But not representative of anything. If you're just going to post for the sake of boosting that number, please reconsider. Nobody likes flooders. On the other hand, if you contribute interesting stuff then people will hold you in higher regards. Especially if you're new: first impressions last a long time.

This isn't an online game. Nobody likes a grammar nazi, but if your post comes out so butchered it takes some interpretation to be understood, slow down. You're in no hurry, so why are you resorting to shorthand and not trying to correct your more blatant typos? it herurts terying 2 piece 2geter a sentecece liek this.

If you're new, you've probably registered because you wanted to have fun with the rest of us. Your priority should be gaining others' respect and friendship. Not raising your post count by replying to every topic you read with butchered one-line posts that don't contribute anything or that's already covered in the faq (yes, yes, there's one here; surprised aren't ya?) CoN is quite a big place with a lot of great people: getting on their good side is worthwhile and enjoyable. I know saying "lol post good stuff plz :) :) :)" is easier said than done, but is it so hard to just take a few minutes to think about what you're posting? I sure didn't when I clicked the "new topic" button, and see what it's resulted in? :P

Like I said at the top of this post, I'm no moderator and I don't want to come off like some guy trying to impose his own little law. I'm just a fellow poster, and these are my thoughts. If you think they sound elitist or just plain dumb, then hey, maybe they are after all. But they make you stop and think about your next post to make your thread into something everyone can enjoy, then maybe this thread hasn't been a bloated waste after all. :)

I can hardly be taken seriously with a post like this seeing as I'm not exactly a model poster myself. Maybe one will come along, read this, agree with some points, and post a conceit reply that will be read by a newbie. Or maybe a newbie will read this and decide to post something great just to spite me (you know you want to! :P)

Either way, I'm just some guy ranting. :) Peace, CoN.

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 8th August 2005 22:29

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I agree wholehearted, RuneLancer. I have felt that new members here need to take more time to think out their post and maybe even possibly proofread (*gasp!*) the posts before submitting them for quite some time. I, too, am not a model poster, nor am I a moderator, but I am a humble member here with an opinion.

Post count means absolutely nothing. You can post 20 times per day saying nothing more than "lol" or "k u do that", and I assure you, you will not get any respect from me or any other members. I look up to members who will post maybe once per week, but with really helpful, relevent information that is presented in a well-written, easily-understandable manner (Master ZED comes to mind, among others).

Just to prove that post count doesn't matter, I have asked R51 to void all the posts that i acquired from the "Ideas for my hack?" thread, since I posted a good 270 times or something. That doesn't look very good, and I don't think it reflects well upon myself, so I thought it would be a nice gesture.

A vast majority of members here on CoN have nothing against new members; rather, we welcome them and invite them to partake in our discussions and such in chat or on the forums. So please, new members, don't make us unwillingly develop a negative predisposition towards newcomers by posting meaningless, poorly-worded, irrelevent posts.

Thanks!

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Is PJ

I see a problem with it though. Look at the logic. If a post is childish and immature, wouldn't it be safe to assume it's been posted by an immature child? Twelve year olds aren't likely to care that we find them stupid and annoying unless we communicate it on there level (wItH 1337 tYp1Ng sk1LlZ0rZ!) , in which case you've already lost the battle. And as entertaining as Josh's responce to these people are for me, I imagine they'd fly right over the heads of most of the people he's directing his scorn towards. I think he knows it too, but they're still funny, so don't stop chief.

Then there's the other aspect to consider. Something I'm unsure if it's been a problem here, but I've seen it elsewhere. I head around to 3d computer graphics forums that are frequented by people from all around the world, including places where english is not the formost language (who knew!?). Yet they post in broken english that, frankly, is pretty indistinguishable from kids who do possess full knowledge of english, but no patience for proofreading. This leads to the obvious problem of thinking you're dealing with some troll, when it's really a nice guy from Siberia having to deal with a crappy internet translator or making the attempt on his own. I don't want to begrudge a person because they don't speak my language unless they work in my country as a customer service representative. That's about as far as I'd like my racism to go.

As for elitism, I don't think it's such a bad thing in this case. If some brat with bad taste thinks this place is for snobs and leaves...I'm all for it. For the longest time, I've been considering suggesting to Josh that he delete all the sephiroth avatars from the CoN. That alone would halve the troll swarm right there.

Also, it should be noted that when I first came here back in '01, there was one forum poster that was in the middle of a long bannishment from the board. Apparently, he'd been quite a hell raiser just before I got here. That poster was Dragon_Fire. He's since become a respected member here (relatively speaking ). So keep in mind that anyone can change.

This post has been edited by Narratorway on 9th August 2005 00:20

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Arts

Farts

Twarts

well said!
I've been here a few months and have a low count still, haha, but all I really think is "I wish I had more time to browse around and post more" ...not a need to post random crap just to boost my count. Really, that doesn't achieve anything except make people look..... desperate, or unaware of how dumb ther sound when all they say is "lol" everywhere.

I'm still actually really impressed with how few immature posters there are here, compared to other forums. I guess it's because this place is better moderated yay to that!

I've long enjoyed the CoN forums, to the point that this is the only message board I regularly check and post on, among about 7 that I'm a member of. That's because these forums are clean, non-cluttered with junk, and easy to follow. I like how threads are kept on topic. I like how spam and advertising are forbidden. I like how signatures can't contain images, so that images don't clutter the screen. I like how well the site is organized, and kept such (darn 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, stating that everything goes to ruin unless you put work into it).

Some nice suggestions to new forum members:
1. Please read the rules. There's a little link at the top left-hand corner of the page that says "Forum Rules - PLEASE READ." There's an actual reason for that, and without those rules, these forums would be just as messy as just any other forum out there, filled with spam and useless posts and post-whores and flame wars. Although I enjoy a dose of nonsensical humor at times, seeing a forum in complete disarray is NOT enjoyable. The rules are there to keep things straight so that the forum continues to flourish the way it does now.
2. Please remember that there's an entire database of information that's next to these forums. It's located, logically, at http://www.cavesofnarshe.com . On there, you can find a wealth of information that forms probably one of the (of not the) most comprehensive databases on Final Fantasy I, IV, V, VI, VII, and Tactics. If there's some 'secret' you know about the game, unless you're very sure it's very very obscure, chances are, it's already there. We already know about the Adamant armor, the Brave Blade and Chicken Knife, and the Crusader esper. Please don't try to show off how 1337 you are by knowing common knowledge like these.
3. That stunning information database...how do the staff do it? A LOT of work went into this. They only open up a database when it's essentially finished, and the work may take more than a year to complete. Feel free to ask questions about other games on the forums, but please do NOT ask for databases on other games--they do not yet exist, and the staff will decide when they want to develop such databases. It's not like you ask and within a few days it'll magically appear. (Additionally, it's more so not a very good idea to ask for databases on FFII or FFVIII, since the staff don't seem to like those two games (neither of which I've played).)
4. Try to avoid "AOL speak" or "1337". You may think you seem cool, but very few people like to |23@|) 7|-||20\/6|-| 73><7 7|-|@7 |_00|<$ |_1|<3 7|-|1$ or txt dat look liek tihs.
5. Do NOT be a "fan-noob". That means not doing insensible things like "SEPHY IS MY FAV CHAR N HE IS TEH COOLEST EVAR!!!!!!!".
6. Try to put something worth saying in each of your posts. Postcount is NOT a measure of honor, wisdom, or anything good (or bad). What's more important (and what'll make people appreciate your membership in the forums) is that you make meaningful posts. As the rules say, try not to post merely "k" or some nearly-meaningless one-line (or even one-word) post. CoN has a chat room for that, and it's located on network irc.darkmyst.org at channel #narshe. It might be helpful to keep in mind that on a message board like CoN Forums, you're not talking to people, but you're writing. And no, it doesn't matter if your posts are waaaaayy long, as long as they're readable and have understandable meaning.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 9th August 2005 07:08

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

What's a little sad is that, apart from a few exceptions (if any?), everything we've said is covered in the forum FAQ. And if people read it when joining and paid attention, none of this would even be an issue. The blame doesn't just fall on newbies, though: admittedly, it's a pretty lengthy read and most people just figure it'll cover the typical "lol dont post child pr0nz " lines we're all familiar with.

I'm a little of the opinion that a shortened FAQ should be displayed when someone tries to create an account, and a link or instructions to continue should be hidden in the body of the FAQ. Problem is that this could discourage well-meaning posters from joining, and that it still doesn't mean someone will pay attention. Besides, even if they did, I'm quite sure the people posting "LOL WUTS UR FAV ANIMETION??? AERIS RAISING HER LEFT HAND OR RIGHT!!!??" feel as though they really are posting something worthwhile even though nobody cares.

So... I dunno. This thread is a rant, after all, so I don't think anyone here's going to post something to make much of a difference (but hey, here's to hoping it'll have an effect, no matter how small, somewhere along the way) but I don't want to just finish my post with "well, I guess it can't be helped. "

Instead, I'll finish it off with an ascii flea: .

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Hehe... ascii flea... lol.

Well said guys. I may be a pretty new member here, but I pride myself in at least TRYING to make intelligent, grammatically-correct posts (and I think I succeed every now and then ). The thing is, this is not AIM! If you take 5 minutes to type your post, nobody's gonna say "r u thar? r u there? r u tere? r u tehre? r u there?" You can take your time on a forum, and in all honesty, I know a LOT of people, myself included, that even use proper grammer while IM-ing! (well... usually) Is it REALLY all that hard to type "you" instead of "u" or "okay" or "sure" or "alrighty then" as opposed to "k"? I don't really think so.

Of course, it doesn't really matter if your posts are easy to read if there's nothing worthwhile in them ANYWAY, but assuming there IS, try not to hurt people's eyes.

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

Hahaha. You rock, man. I've wanted to post this for ages, but Josh would have jumped all over me for being a meanie.

And the ironic part is that some of the people who reply in agreement are guilty as sin of the crime in question...

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

I agree with Glenn Magus Harvey and SilverLance. This isn't AOL, not to mention I don't understand most of 1337.

Like SilverLance said, Post Count doesn't really matter other than your rank, which is just for fun, really.

We're all hypocrits in some way, karasuman.

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Could you repeat that?

There's something that the bandwagon has heretofore overlooked. We don't WANT to be elitist. And it really sounds like we do here.

There has to be a balance between what is acceptable "mentoring" in an effort to get the new members up to speed, and what is simply trying to bludgeon them into submission. I personally feel that this thread falls somewhere into the latter camp, which is why I first resisted posting a similar thread myself, and since then have avoided commenting here. I don't wish to advocate this nature of all the "good" people banding together as some sort of firing squad.

I've been put into a bind here. While what this thread wants is proven to be a noble goal - the object of CoN's forums has always been to be just a bit smarter than your average discussion board, and I know from hearing firsthand that we by and large do well there relative to our "competitors." And while the goal is noble, I'm not sure that this particular discussion will serve the purpose. People have to WANT to be the type of people who will fit in and be productive here. Having other members tell them what to do may not be the way to achieve that.

Additionally, the letter of the law says that acting like a mod is a warnable offense, but I haven't the heart to do that because I know that you guys only want to help, and there's no real malice at work here. And I suppose it's better than you all PMing people who don't meet your standards.

I have every intention of working toward buttoning up the leaks of quality you might notice. I haven't talked much about it because I rarely talk about CoN plans that don't have a concrete ETA. You lot have just jumped the gun on me, but I ain't madatcha.

That said, I'm perfectly okay with keeping this topic open for now for discussion of what could and could not be done; this could prove to be beneficial for us all, if we keep the tone civil. Especially, don't make it personal about anyone - that will certainly be met with a warning. And if you want to know if you're one of the folks that people are talking about, I wouldn't suggest posting here to ask and throwing yourselves to the wolves.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN? Or perhaps buying a really good looking shirt?

Actually, R51, the majority of my post was directed at you. Your posts, often short and no more than a few words, hardly ever bring anything to the conversation at hand, and are often so knee-deep in typos it takes multiple readings to succesfully interpret them. Tsk. :/

(Just kidding. You're a decent admin and an overall good guy.)

But seriously, while I can't speak for others in this thread, my original intentions were to throw a few suggestions out there that, maybe, a newbie poster will read and stop to ponder for a little bit. Of course, that's not the case, and maybe it's best if people develop their own posting style. So long, in the end, as everyone enjoys their time here and don't end up annoying other posts.

Changing people is impossible; giving them a friendly nudge in the right direction when something's amiss can help them consider what change has to offer, though. The worst thing anyone can do is seek out a new poster whose behavior would rank along the lines of "lame," and attempt to impose their ideals on them. After all, if someone's behavior is so wrong as to be a problem, it's a moderator's job to take care of it. And CoN is moderated to a satisfactory extent, so such a thing shouldn't become a problem to anyone.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it'd be great if people could take the time to consider their posts before hitting that reply button, and even abstain from posting it if they feel it just doesn't belong there. I've written about newbie posters a lot, but even regulars and veterans could benefit from it (just look at my posts for an example: if I took my own advice, my post count would be in the low double-digits by now! )

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Well, I usually try to ignore those posts that are so incomprehensible or just grating. Although, there have been a few time to time that have irked us CoNers in general. I think that a majority (I wouldn't go so far to say vast majority) of us regular posters here at CoN try to make a worthwhile contribution to the site. Having all these different people (with their really different personalities) make this place interesting. CoN forum is one of the few places that I've stuck with continually. I keep coming back for more of my favorite things about the FFs and creative works (especially the art). So while there are definate flaws (ie random spammers, 1337 5p34k3rz, trolls) the pros outweigh the CoNs (pun intended).

Oh, and look at my number of posts. Not too high of a number for someone who has been here since 2002.

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kame, tortue, tortuga, schildkröte, tartaruga, turtle

"Arthur Dent?"
"Yes."
"Arthur Philip Dent?"
"Yes."
"You're a total knee biter."

Quote (Narratorway @ 8th August 2005 20:05)

For the longest time, I've been considering suggesting to Josh that he delete all the sephiroth avatars from the CoN. That alone would halve the troll swarm right there.

Also, it should be noted that when I first came here back in '01, there was one forum poster that was in the middle of a long bannishment from the board. Apparently, he'd been quite a hell raiser just before I got here. That poster was Dragon_Fire. He's since become a respected member here (relatively speaking ). So keep in mind that anyone can change.

Hey! I happen to love my Sephiroth avatar!

The point is tired though guys.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where just about anyone can get on the internet and do/go virtually where ever they please. Now, I'm not in the position to start knocking every second person's grammatical skills, I mean, that job used to be reserved for Super Moogle. Even with the wittiest comments and threats of post-count revocations and bannishment, they press on. So what can we do? Absolutely nothing. They'll continue it wherever they go until they finally grow up or die.

I agree that it would be nice for people to re-read what they write before hitting that "Add Reply" or "Submit" button, but when you already have the mentality that encourages said behaviour, rereading it will yield nothing. There's nothing wrong with typing in L33t format to them, or using horridly butchered chat speak in their eyes, so no matter how long they sit and think, the outcome will remain the same.

Trust me, I speak from experience. Like Narratorway mentioned, I was a little hell-raiser at these very forums (the original General Topics in particular) and all I did was threaten to kill people in various ways and post gibberish literally as often as I could. It seemed fine to do at the time by my own standards, regardless of what R51 had to say.

What finally brought me around was partially growing up and a certain other member who tried to mimic my former antics. He'll remain nameless but R51 knows the bugger. He posted like I did, typed like I did and even copied my old signature. It annoyed the hell out of me, not because he was copying me but because I finally saw what I had been doing myself.

Sometimes, you have to let these guys go a little and eventually they'll come around. In the meantime? I know it's hard to let it slide sometimes and some people just shouldn't be allowed to touch a keyboard but remember, everyone starts somewhere, these guys just failed English class when you failed math. (or got straight A's you knowledgeable bastards)

Try to be a little patient, cuz you might end up with another great member like me! [/sarcasm]

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 9th August 2005 23:58)

Now, I'm not in the position to start knocking every second person's grammatical skills, I mean, that job used to be reserved for Super Moogle.

You should have put a semicolon after "skills," separating the two independent clauses.

I guess I'll have to say something about this, as it is a fairly frequent subject of conversation among the regulars. I'm going to have to play the part of pessimist here, because I've seen the way that incoherent posters can detract from the overall quality - and even lend to the eventual demise - of growing internet forums. While the CoN does have success stories like DF above, who for all intents and purposes has become a respectable member of this community, I sincerely doubt that the majority of maladjusted new people can figure things out as quickly or as well as he did.

Though I have a streak of Grammar Nazism in me, I don't really have too much a problem with a few spelling or punctuation errors here or there. We all make mistakes. And for those who seem incoherent, I'd remind others that English is not always the first language for every member here.

The only thing that truly bothers me with this new generation of forum members is their blatant disregard for the rules, which are easily accessible from the forum main page. Asking inane questions easily answered by the main site seems to be the most frequent problem, but it's one of many. I think that if everyone just sat down and read the rules, and decided to follow them, the quality of posts would increase dramatically.

The most successful and/or controversial internet forums have taken variably drastic steps to initiate their newbies. Oftentimes they institute a network of arbitrary trolls composed of moderators and regulars who cull the fields through sheer meanness. While I cannot altogether agree with the spirit of this method, it is certainly effective. However, some fear (and rightly so) that such a route would undermine the integrity of CoN's welcoming environment. Clearly, this is not an easy problem to solve.

I don't believe that every bad poster can be removed or improved. But I applaud those new members who make the attempt to conduct themselves reasonably, as well as those moderators who are unafraid to silence rudeness and ignorance.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Quote (Kame @ 9th August 2005 18:23)

I think that a majority (I wouldn't go so far to say vast majority) of us regular posters here at CoN try to make a worthwhile contribution to the site.

I would go that far. Sorry guys, but I can't circle the wagons with you. I've been here for quite a while and I have to say I've never been to another forum that was this upright, intelligent, unspammy, and welcoming. Maybe things have changed recently, I don't spend as much time around lately and pretty much only frequent the General Topics but I've never had a problem here. Whenever a newb steps over the line, Josh has always been there to wittily (good word Tidu) guide them back into place.

I'll be the dissenter here and say that I honestly think that the "Club for Long time Members Against Newbies Who Don't Post Good" (I hope someone caught the reference) would in fact detract membership and we'd lose a bit of the welcoming appeal that makes CoN great. I mean, intelligent individuals from many walks of life just seem to flock here and the vast majority are open and kind to almost anyone. I don't know, it just seems lately like there's a budding sentiment of that *Shock and Awe Tactics Ahead* Elitism that is brewing among the regulars. Personally, I've never really had a problem with newbies and the occasional 1337 speak. Hey, maybe it's really been on the rise and I just haven't been around to notice it.

That's just my opinion.

--------------------

The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

An awful lot of the problems would be solved if post count weren't an issue. The people who ask questions that are easily answered by the FAQs don't bug me at all. For me, the major annoyance is wading through a dozen senseless posts from the same person who obviously posted to see himself in type and to up his post count. So if post count isn't a mark of prestige or a useful measure of everything, why bother with it? Removing it would remove the incentive to post incessantly.

Of course I realize that that the staff has no intention of doing any such thing as taking away that stat--and the reason is that post count does mean something to most of us. While it may be true that a high post count doesn't do you any good if you're known to be a jackass, it's also true that a high post count seems to indicate that you've been around for a while and perhaps ought to be taken seriously. The motivation to fake that is always going to be here if the statistic itself is. And posting just to hear yourself talk is one of the hardest things to curb without getting nasty.

Posting with bad spelling, grammar, etc. might not be as hard to deal with. If a few mods (new ones, maybe, if the current ones are too busy) made it their business to kindly PM offenders with the specific example of what they'd done wrong and how they could have done it better, the learning curve might mellow out a little. Being snarky or just forwarding a copy of the rules wouldn't do a damn bit of good, since most of these people probably wouldn't see themselves in the middle of a serious rules violation, anyway.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote (karasuman @ 10th August 2005 13:00)

An awful lot of the problems would be solved if post count weren't an issue......

So if post count isn't a mark of prestige or a useful measure of everything, why bother with it? Removing it would remove the incentive to post incessantly....
Of course I realize that that the staff has no intention of doing any such thing as taking away that stat--and the reason is that post count does mean something to most of us.

Actually, my indication that I've been around a long time is the date that I registered at the CoN, placed neatly below the mentioned Post-Counter.

I think most members wouldn't care if the post-counter was removed. I mean, sure it's a nice number. It tells you how many times you've left a message on these forums. I doubt though, that any of the "actual" members, the ones who post or try to post intelligently and by the rules would make a stink if it one day dissapeared.

It wouldn't solve as much as you think. People would still come to the site regardless and sign up. Why? Well, because it's a Final Fantasy based web-site, it's an online community and it looks really cool. So what? Should we also say that
the site should be made to look less trashy and it's content all erased just so that no annoying members would be interested to join? Maybe I've gone a little too far, but the point is, they'll come. No matter what, they'll come.

CoN is a lot better a community than any other online forum I've seen, ever. We have it a lot better than most of us realize, especially when it comes to Newbies or annoying members. We have a small share, yes. We get a bit of the broken-chat speak or the l33t writers, but go look at any other forum.

For the most part, the Respectable to Annoying member ratio is largely sided with the Respectable group. Enjoy what you have.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

If there's one thing I concur with more than anything in this thread, it's the spelling and grammar point. It would be nice if all posters made the effort to speak properly and not use team speak, or whatever the expression is.

"U no Watt?! UR ritte. Wikked Stuuf, U So Kol. cloud iz beter den baRRet, wat u recon???@ "
I don't want to be mean but reading through such messages like the example I have given is a joke. You are using a keyboard, not a mobile phone!

I'm a global moderator of another forum and I have a real urge to delete such posts and say "Stop posting this garbage!"

Of course the obvious question is, how do you deal with these members effectively, while still maintaining a very friendly atmosphere?

I've noticed a lot of the people that make the team speak posts make an average of 50 pointless posts and then leave. There aren't that many on this forum so I'm not too bothered. I'll throw the idea in the air, that a warning such as "Please type properly or post else well" might be an idea. And then giving these members the boot, if they show no interest in improving after a certian amount of time.

This post has been edited by fatman on 10th August 2005 22:15

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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

Quote (fatman @ 10th August 2005 17:01)

spelling and grammer

Oh, the irony.

Some people improve when the people replying to their posts ask them to rephrase in a way that is comprehensible to the standard English speaker.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote (fatman @ 10th August 2005 17:01)

Of course the obvious question is, how do you deal with these members effectively, while still maintaining a very friendly atmosphere?

There's always a degree of negativity to be used towards someone when you have to "deal" with their behavior. You can't make something positive out of it, otherwise it'll just sound like their behavior's acceptable and even desirable.

Seems like making an effort to stay away from the shorthand approach is one of the more frequently recurring complaints in the thread so far, to me. Personally, I've never quite understood why someone had to resort to shorthand when they aren't in a hurry. In a game, yeah: most gamers are young (early teens, if not younger) and are probably not accustomed to using a keyboard, so they'd type slow and hunt for the right keys. Since time is often of the essence in a game, it's understandable that people would cut corners. But on a message board? While writing email? Where's the hurry? the onyl thing ur acheiveng when u teype 2 fast nad use shortahnd is making it a pauin on the other persan.

The long-term effects of making shorthand writing a habit are pretty sad. I believe there was an article in TIME magazine (I THINK it was TIME...) on pagers and the even more painful form of shorthand gradeschoolers/highschoolers use to chat on them. CN U MK SNS OF THS MSG? PRBLY, BT I BET UR GNG NTS TRNG 2 DO SO. LUVTHXCUL8R HON!!! =) According to the article, some students had taken to using shorthand in written compositions (!!!). There was a mention of internet shorthand too. Sad. Even sadder was one of the teachers' reasons for accepting it: it was an original way to express oneself (what the hell is wrong with you people?! :_: )

Just going off on a tangeant here. Don't mind me.

I do agree with karasuman. Leaping all over someone for using "u" is just going to scare people away and make us sound like a bunch of elitist grammar nazis (...our secret identity must never be known...) A polite request to rephrase a post in a less butchered manner, if it's an issue, might clue in a poster that shorthand is both unecessary and not quite favored. Then again it might not. But a proper and unprovocative request shouldn't make anyone feel too offended. At least, that's how it sounds to me.

In an ideal world, the boards would have nothing but informative posts and questions about things neither covered by the site itself or mostly unknown. Discussions would be lengthy (though not overly so) and both well thought-out and informative. No post would be purposeless, and nobody would have to struggle to make sense of a given post or to try to puzzle out which illegal substance was consummed by the poster prior to hitting the "Add reply" button. But hey, we don't live in an ideal world. So long as the good posts outweight the bad posts by a good majority, this place remains a pretty good board.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I fall into the 20-25 crowd, but I'm still relatively new here and it took me some time to get familiar with CoN. It really is a different place from the rest of the internet.

I would say that I have grown as a person in the short time I've been here. I would also say that maturity is not dependent upon age. You can have a very mature young person or a very immature old person. And there is the possibility, even with younger members using chat speak and spamming, that the immature people will learn to change their ways.

My interaction with other members has taught me about myself. Sometimes I see them doing something I don't like (excessive editing) only to realize that I'm also guilty of it. I've also learned by posting here that I can be argumentative and opinionated. Well, I really don't think that's going to change, but now I realize that sometimes, even if I don't mean to, I can offend a person not only with what I say but the way in which I say it. Another time I was bitterly opposed to someone's viewpoint and we walked away respecting one another. This forum made me think that, even if I can't completely change who I am, perhaps I can do something to have the latter outcome occur more often.

It's important to remember that there may be some things about you that annoy other members. And once upon a time you were even thirteen. We all have our faults, perhaps it shows more with the new members. But frankly, as long as the regulars continue to show up and act as they do (and as they have done in this thread, the Age thread, and the CoN birthday thread) then people who really want to be a part of the community will conform to its standards. Those who do not will make their spam for a little while, won't fit in, and will disappear. If anyone gets too out of control, the mods can regulate. CoN has been around for eight years, I think it's safe to say its moderating techniques have been successful so far.

This is a truly unique place. I haven't been here very long, but I really enjoy these forums and think you are some pretty amazing people. Here's to many more years of CoN.

The people who bug me, I'll admit, are the ones who ask questions that could be answered if they would look at the main site. I don't know, maybe it's our fault and it's not obvious that we have a site. But when someone asks "Hey, what do you do at the phantom train???" or "what does the steal materia do?" or something, and has no idea that we have a walkthrough here that tells them what to do, or a very detailed section of weapons, armour, artifacts and enemies, it's a little annoying.

If someone makes a post and I can't understand half of what they're trying to say, it's annoying, but I try to remind myself that this person could be foreign, or be a 13-year-old, or someone who has not been on the internet long and theenks its kewl 2 talk lik tis. OR LIKE THIS, WHICH SOME PEOPLE DON"T REALIZE IS SHOUTING.

We just had a rant like this on another board that I go to. It's not as strict as CoN in some ways (people can double post, and you have no idea how often I want to report it, then say "oh, wait, they don't mind that here for some reason") but they get their share of people who aren't typing with the reader of the post in mind.



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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

I have to agree with Elena. It's annoying when kids are asking who to steal an Elixir from, or where to go after I defeat boss x when the site itself has the Net's best coverage of Final Fantasy. I can only imagine how much more annoying it would be for those that worked on those pages. Of course, some people bypass the main site and end up in the forums via Google. I remember the visibility of the forum's main site link being an issue brought up recently.

I can't remember if CoN requires the activation of an account by e-mail to become a member. Either way, a good idea would be to automatically redirect new members to the rules page. Sure, some people will be annoyed and skip it immediately. The great thing is that some won't, and you'll cut the number of uninformed posters by a considerable margin. But that's my optimism speaking.

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SPEKKIO: "GRRR...That was most embarrassing!"

Just a thought, but shouldn't there be a link to the main site on the boards? Although I can't say I've looked too hard, I can't see any, and like Elena said, a lot of people seem to come here via google. That's how I first came here and it took me a little while to realise there was an actual site.

Well, just a thought. Frankly the problem isn't the site, but the fact people can first access it via a search engine at any place, including the boards. If everyone came in through the main site then we'd probably have less questions that could be answered by browsing one of the FF sections, but that can hardly be helped. Unless R51 owns google that is. (...care to give us a few shares for christmas? )

Edit: My bad, there is a link. Admittedly, a small one, but it's there.

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 11th August 2005 04:45

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I've already pointed out the suggestion of a bigger link being needed to the main site, to R51 and he said he was looking into it. But as pointed out, there are a lot more intelligent posters, than there are posters who use short hand and post garbage here, so I don't find it particularly off putting.



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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

Well, on the topic of showing the main site, couldn't we answer some questions that are covered by posting the link to the page?

Such as:

How do I get Vincent on my team?

We simply post: http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/ff7/secretchars.php

I know that the person would probably prefer if you just answered how instead of posting a link, but the information is already there, so there's no need to ask such a question. Just put it in your address and hit 'go'. Less questions that way.

I also agree with The_Pink_Nu1 about redirecting new members straight to the rule page.

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Could you repeat that?

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 10th August 2005 12:15)

CoN is a lot better a community than any other online forum I've seen, ever. We have it a lot better than most of us realize, especially when it comes to Newbies or annoying members. We have a small share, yes. We get a bit of the broken-chat speak or the l33t writers, but go look at any other forum.

For the most part, the Respectable to Annoying member ratio is largely sided with the Respectable group. Enjoy what you have.

This sums up my thoughts exactly.


And Green Magi, I have seen that done many a time here. I know I've done on occasion in the past. Except, there's usually a witty remark that always accompanies it along the lines of "Hey, this is a Final Fantasy site, did you ever think to check it? Weird concept, I know."

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

What bugs me, other than some newer members ignoring or otherwise not knowing about the main site and its walkthroughs/FAQs, is when people blatantly disregard all posts in a topic before theirs', which often results in them answering a question that was already addressed five or so posts ago. Rather than treating the boards as places of discussion and interaction between members, they seem much more content acting as an echo or generally contributing squat to the topic. This may be just another instance of members trying to up their post counts, but it's annoying and unnecessary all the same. Luckily there aren't as many offenders here as there are on just about every other board I frequent. Those two cases have been known to get on my nerves far more than shorthand, the spelling and grammar of a toaster and 1337 speak, 'cause for some unknown reason I can usually understand what's being said enough to grasp the basic idea behind the post. Although typing up three paragraphs 'n one with only a single period or comma irks me quite a bit as well.

But pessimistic as I may sound, I'm certain that, given the time, most of these new folks will come around and grow up a li'l - just as we gradually did over the years of nerdily posting on 'Net forums.

Quote (Silverlance)

In a game, yeah: most gamers are young (early teens, if not younger) and are probably not accustomed to using a keyboard, so they'd type slow and hunt for the right keys.

Last I checked, the majority of gamers were said to be in their late twenties. If that actually carried over to the Internet (and for all I know, it might. Antiproficiency in writing skills knows no age limit), I'd have to wonder.

Speaking of contributing to the topic, I back the redirection to the rules idea. If that somehow doesn't work out, perhaps the link to the rules on the forums page can be made larger, in the same vein as enlarging the link to the main site? That way new members will, at the very least, recognize that the boards have rules; that is, more so than the tiny link, even with the text in caps, indicates.



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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Is this what it's come to? Posting in a forum about a forum? Yes, topics get repeated needlessly ad infinium. Yes, people who have no business creating written word do so on a regular basis. Such is the nature of an internet forum. It seems R51 and the other mods do their best to stem the tides of ignorance, and those efforts I suppose deserve some applaud, but there is only so much any person can do without severly limiting membership.

This is one of the cleaner forums I've seen on the web given it's membership. Make your own forum if you want everyone to think and talk like you do. It might get boring posting to yourself though.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Hey Silverlance,

Quote (Silverlance)

Just going off on a tangeant here.

*tangent

As for a larger link to the main site (along with a larger link to the forum rules), I have firmly advocated and still firmly advocate that idea.

Concerning AOL-speak, some people have simply adopted it for AIM and then merely (mindlessly?) applied it to all internet communication. To this, I can only recommend observation of most people's posts. (Concentration of punctuation and correctly-capitalized words are kinda unusually high in this forum, and for a good reason.)

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )