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I'm sure many of us here have, at some point, figured FF6 was too easy and could be a little more fun if played in a more challenging way. SCCs have sprouted up, as well as natural magic-only games, initial equipment games, etc. One of these is the low-level or zero exp challenge.

The low-level challenge involves getting through the game without gaining any levels. You basically run from every encounter. Since bosses give no EXP, you barely ever level up (I say barely because some fights are plain unevitable, such as the underground minecart scene.)

A no-exp challenge is a little harder, but requires the use of a cheating device to lock your exp to 0. That way, even forced encounters won't raise your level.

Both challenges diallow any random encounter. If you find yourself in a random encounter, you MUST run away if it'll give EXP. The veldt does not give any exp, and serves as a good way of raising your finances and building up Gau, who happens to be the most useful character in the WoB. This restriction is quite a pain, especially when caught in encounters you can't run from (such as brainpans in the Phoenix Cave.)

This may seem absurd and maybe even impossible, but trust me, it's much easier than it sounds. My advice is to put everyone in the back row and abuse the hell out of free abilities. This means Cyan's level 1 swdtech, Sabin's blitzes, and best of all, Gau's rages (most of which allow you to cast free spells, when you know which does what.)

Anyone tried either of these challenges? Thoughts and comments?

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Low-Level games in my opinion is stupid.. It's better to do an Initial Equip Game (Imagine Celes and Gau!!!) since it gives more challenge..

I'm thinking of doing a LLG, but initial equipment has just caught my eye...

does that include if a character is unequipped by the game you can't re-equip the character with her/his initial equipment?

Otherwise, by WoR - all characters has 0 equipment.

Umaro would r0x0r tho XD

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Any challenge which forces you to fight with strategy as opposed to whatever strongest spell is at your disposal is a good challenge.

I remember struggling for hours trying to beat the boss in Daryll's Tomb until I eventually figured out the trick to beating him. It's amazing how handy seemingly useless characters and abilities suddently become when you have to use them.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I never got past the following part:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

At the end of the WOB, when you get on the floating machine. I was never able to get pas the 3-4 battles (sky armor + spit fire ; pincer attack). They were always killing me off with absolute zero or killing off half of my party with a lvl2 spell... Gau is extremely powerful, but due to the lack of time, he's somewhat useless.

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Sayonara

would level 50 count as low level? that was how i first beat it, and the only reason i htink i won was because i got the ragnarok esper. (thought it was a waste of my time to try and fight 255 battles)

This post has been edited by Smackthedog on 3rd August 2005 23:10

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OBEY YOUR THIRST
"Aww...They're SOOO CUUTE!! BUT WHO CARES!!!!?"
-Excel Excel, Excel Saga

Quote (Smackthedog @ 3rd August 2005 18:07)

would level 50 count as low level?

Definitely not!

That's high-levelled. IIRC, your Celes will be level 8 (or 9 maybe) at the end of the game in a low-level game. Gau is pretty much your highest-level character, too (13 IIRC...?)

50 is ridiculously high and requires very little strategy. And definitely implies having fought a lot of random encounters. ;P

Edit: @Zodiac:
That's, IMHO, the hardest part of a low-level/no exp game. It relies considerably on luck, a well-stocked inventory, and a well-rounded set of characters in your party (one of which should be Gau.) The fact that you're faced with multiple boss battles one after the other doesn't help things at all.

I spent a good 2-3 days trying to get past the airship deck and, believe me, saved right away when I could afterwards. I always dread that part of the game.

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 4th August 2005 00:32

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

A good low-level game would be 6. Single-digits are good, high doubles are not.

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Is PJ

Actually, Silverlance, wouldn't the highest level character be Mog? He's +5 levels higher than everyone else in WoB, unless that's based off Terra, Locke or Celes. Even if it was your 'average level' it would still be above a level 10-ish.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote (Locke_Cole @ 4th August 2005 09:42)

Actually, Silverlance, wouldn't the highest level character be Mog? He's +5 levels higher than everyone else in WoB, unless that's based off Terra, Locke or Celes. Even if it was your 'average level' it would still be above a level 10-ish.

Hmm, could be, I didn't bother grabbing Mog in my no-exp game because I never really liked him. I just took the golden hairpin the first time and only had him in my weaker party during the Phoenix cave to cut down on Brainpan encounters with the moogle charm. ;P

Gau, in my game at least, ends up being pretty high-levelled due to the fact he ends up in most mandatory exp-giving battles. I believe the game re-averages your levels at some point, which often ends up giving him an extra level or two (regretfully ) Not sure wether he or Mog are higher levelled, but it may be that Mog outranks him slightly.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Locke_Cole, in the Initial Equipment challenge, you HAVE to re-equip your items if they are automatically removed. Never sell them items when characters leave you. And always make sure you keep it just the way it was when they first joined you, otherwise, it's a normal game.

in my IE Challenge, I'm currently at

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Zozo with Locke, Celes, and Cyan at LV 20, LV 19, and LV 17-18 (forgot). It's hard.. Wow.

EDIT: Btw, you can't equip Espers because you don't start off with them. Ditto for Relics. And only Relm uses one relic initially.. What relic is it? Go figure.. So I guess Terra and Celes (Without equipments OMG and Runic OMG) would be extremely useful for magic. But Shadow, Cyan, Edgar, Sabin, and Gogo are still bitches at power

This post has been edited by NeoEx-Death on 4th August 2005 18:35

An initial equip game isn't all that hard. Most characters have built-in abilities which make them hideously powerful. Stick everyone in the back row and only a few battles (the Magimaster comes to mind) will be difficult.

Terra/Celes: Natural magic. But not all that useful, IMHO. You have better alternatives.
Locke: Meh. Useless for this one.
Edgar: Early on, autocrossbow is useful (he starts with it.) But it rapidly loses its versatility in the face of other characters.
Sabin: Natural "magic" in the form of very damaging blitzes. This guy is U-S-E-F-U-L!
Cyan: Meh. SwrdTech is a crappy skill, but it's his form of "natural magic." Reasonably useful.
Shadow: Good way to clean out your inventory, seeing as you won't be using any of that equipment. Good damage, too. Useful against bosses.
Gau: As useful as in low-level/no-exp games. Rages = free spells/attacks without equipping any espers.
Mog: If dances weren't so weak, he'd rank same as Gau. Otherwise, he's not all that good, IMO.
Setzer: Slots are pretty useless because of the number of times you'll hit lagomorph. Ditch him.
Relm: Sketch is an alternative to Gau's rages. Just slightly more limited.
Strago: This guy can max out his spells through lores without equipping anything. THE best magic user for this challenge.
Umaro: You can't change this guy's equipment period, save for his two unique relics. If you like Umaro, then use him, I guess...
Gogo: Depends wether commands count as equipment...

In the end, a party of Sabin, Strago, Umaro, and Shadow or Gau can wipe the floor with pretty much anything. Especially if you level them reasonably.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

i never tried a low-level game. It seems a bit too hard to me. If I was to do a low level game, I use a cheat device to max out my HP and MP, but have everyone on a low level. But a low-level game does sounds fun.

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Life....Hopes...Dreams. Where did they came from and where are the headed? These Things...I am going to destory!
-Kefka

well, i don't think i would try it, it would too much of a challenge for me.

heh, i'm lazy

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OBEY YOUR THIRST
"Aww...They're SOOO CUUTE!! BUT WHO CARES!!!!?"
-Excel Excel, Excel Saga

I have not played a low-level game (although I have viewed low-level battles against Omega, Shinryu, and Exdeath in FFV), and do not intend to. In my opinion, the challenge is kinda contrived--forcefully produced; I personally like to enjoy the games I'm playing, and prefer a moderate level of difficulty. I'm not a "hard-core" gamer at all, if speed-run championships and low-level/initial equipment/no magic games. While I have some admiration for those people who speed-run games meant for that, such as the Metroid series games, I personally find it kinda pointless to do these kinds of things in RPGs.

For the record, I've tried to get myself to simply re-play FFVI, but I can't unless I'm playing one with a modified script, such as i90east's Expert Versions. The only RPG I've successfullly made myself replay fully is Super Mario RPG. Not even the Pokemon games.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

For the record: DO Gogo's commands count as equipment?

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

Quote (Spiffyness @ 4th August 2005 18:16)

For the record: DO Gogo's commands count as equipment?

Yes, it does.. Because whatever someone starts with (equipments,commands) they must always remain the same. Gogo would be useful for mimicing others without MP.

Also, Silverlance, Locke doesn't seem to be that weak. He's a 130+ damage hitter at LV 20 (that's ok). And also, he STEALS. I'm more comfortable with stealing than attacking, though..

I think Shadow shouldn't throw weapons because it counts as "stronger weapons," which ends the initial equipment game imo.

Same thing for Edgar because I think he should only use AutoCrossBow. Stronger tools count as "stronger weapons" aswell.

Quote (NeoEx-Death @ 5th August 2005 15:38)

Quote (Spiffyness @ 4th August 2005 18:16)

For the record: DO Gogo's commands count as equipment?

Also, Silverlance, Locke doesn't seem to be that weak. He's a 130+ damage hitter at LV 20 (that's ok). And also, he STEALS. I'm more comfortable with stealing than attacking, though..

Yeah, but when you can't alter your equipment, all's that's left is natural magic (blitzes, swordtechs, a few spells, lores, rages, etc) and items. And stealing will only net you cash and a few items, most of which can easily be bought.

Locke's hardly any useful when you consider Sabin's blitzes, Umaro's berzerked strength, Strago's lores, Cyan's swrdtech (...sorta... cuz y'know, they suck ), Relm's paint ability, Mog's dances, and Terra/Celes' natural magic...

You can breeze through the game with a Sabin SCC no problem (in fact, it's very easy in all places but the Cult of Kefka tower.) With four characters, it becomes a joke. Considering initial equipment is pretty weak, having a character whose sole purpose is to attack physically or make money (of which you'd have tons, considering you're not buying equipment) is hardly worth it when nearly everyone else has additional abilities that can do massive damage at higher levels.

An interesting idea I've heard was a magic-only game where only spells and Lores were permitted (except when necessary, ie Sabin's introductory fight or the Narshe cave battle at the start of the game.) The idea sounds good in theory, but would work out better in the WoR IMO. And the fact MP is easily replenishable in-between battles (or during battles with Osmose) makes it even easier.

A low-level SCC sounds like a fun challenge, though.

(And to everyone who things a low-level game is hard, stick a character in the back row. My level 8 Celes is in the WoR and takes only ~300 damage per attack.)

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Did it once, sure. No-experience game, that is. Best part of it for me was having Gogo do over 4000 damage at whatever level it was he started at to Chadarnook. Catscratch + dual Pearl Rods + double Pearl casting = nice to you.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth