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Remember some lady in Thamasa says that Relm is Strago's friend's daughter? Well the only friend I know about is Gungho.

Any thoughts? I don't mean to get back into the massive discussion of who shadow really is, but I'm just wondering abour gungho.

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

No. Unless you've beaten the game, I won't go any farther.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

I have beaten the game. Why, did I miss something? let me know

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

Relm's lineage spoilers:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Relm is Shadow's (Clyde's) daughter. That's why they can both equip the Memento Ring, that's what Shadow's five dreams all suggest, and in the PSX ending FMV, there's a flash when Shadow is shown that has a whited-out image of Relm in it.

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Not to mention...*more Relm spoilies*

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Interceptor's fondness of Relm. That's because he used to be her dog (he never accompanied Shadow (Clyde) prior to his departer from Thamasa). Perhaps the biggest hint at their relationship is both Shadow's fifth dream and Relm's dream, which is Shadow's fifth dream from her point-of-view (the latter of which you can see after saving Relm in the WoR if you DIDN'T wait for Shadow on the Floating Continent).

Allow me to spoil it for you (that's your warning. Spoilers within spoilers, w00t!!):

In Shadow's fifth dream, he leaves Thamasa, after saying something about "the girl", and Interceptor follows along. In Relm's dream, which takes place a few minutes beforehand, she's shown inside Strago's house and wonders, out loud, if her father's ever coming back. Before the scene fades out, Interceptor is seen leaving the house.

'Sides, her lineage's not just speculation anymore.

The lady in the item shop is just indicating that Strago and Clyde (Shadow) once knew each other (of course, before he donned the black mask and became unrecognizable to everyone). She isn't talking about Gungho. The main point of her info, I believe, is to let you know that Strago isn't Relm's real grandfather - a fact a lotta players seem to miss.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Quote (because555 @ 31st July 2005 01:04)

Remember some lady in Thamasa says that Relm is Strago's friend's daughter? Well the only friend I know about is Gungho.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Shadow took up residence with Strago for a little while after he escaped from his infamous train robbery.

Seeing as love isn't something that happens overnight, he would've stayed there a little while before meeting, falling in love with, and eventually having a child with Relm's mother. Could've been a one-night-stand, but he talks about "the girl" so it would seem Relm was born when he left, which makes the one-night-stand theory unlikely.

Given the amount of time Shadow stayed with Strago, they probably built up a friendship of sorts. Referring to someone who's been living with somebody else for what should be at least a year as that person's friend isn't any unusual.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

I myself am wondering what the relationship between Stragos and Relm's mother is. It's stated by one of the townsfolk that Relm is not actually his granddaughter, correct? So while that means she's not his daughter, it's possible she's a niece or distant cousin of some sort?

Not really, important, I know, and probably just fic fodder, but I like ironing out the tiny details.

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Wilson: "That smugness of yours really is an attractive quality."
House: "Thank you. It was either that or get my hair highlighted. Smugness is easier to maintain."

Quote (Radia @ 31st July 2005 15:16)

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I myself am wondering what the relationship between Stragos and Relm's mother is. It's stated by one of the townsfolk that Relm is not actually his granddaughter, correct? So while that means she's not his daughter, it's possible she's a niece or distant cousin of some sort?

Not really, important, I know, and probably just fic fodder, but I like ironing out the tiny details.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Supposedly, Strago and Relm are not related at all, he's just an old friend of Shadow's. Though obviously Relm was brought up to believe he was her grandfather

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

Quote

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Supposedly, Strago and Relm are not related at all, he's just an old friend of Shadow's. Though obviously Relm was brought up to believe he was her grandfather

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Is this stated anywhere in game? I always under the impression that Stragos didn't know Clyde at all, and Thamasa just happened to be the closest town he stumbled into after the robbery. I'd feel kind of stupid if I went all this time believing one thing and somehow overlooked that little detail.

On another note, that still doesn't explain with who the mother is. If she's just some town's folk, that makes sense, but isn't she living in the same house that Stragos is? Or is that just the last scene we see, with Clyde leaving Relm at Stragos' house after the mother has died?

My head hurts. I need to find an animated gif of the dream sequences. I know there's one somewhere on the net.

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Wilson: "That smugness of yours really is an attractive quality."
House: "Thank you. It was either that or get my hair highlighted. Smugness is easier to maintain."

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

It is stated in the game that Strago is a friend of Relm's father and not actually related to her (as said before, a lady in Thamasa's item shop will clue you in on this after the scene where you meet Strago and Relm). Since Shadow is Relm's father - and that we do know for sure - it means Clyde and Strago must have known each other for a while.

Like Silverlance said, Clyde stayed in Thamasa through Relm's birth and even until she was grown a little (as indicated by both his and her dreams). That's plenty of time for him and Strago to get to know each other. Strago just never brings up Clyde's identity, we can deduce, 'cause he doesn't recognize him in the ninja getup.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Obviously

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

the chick who helps the wounded Clyde in the last Shadow flashback is Relm's mother

However, until someone reminded me that

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

one of the townspeople says that Strago isn't Relm's real grandfather

I assumed that

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Relm's mother was Strago's daughter, therefore making Clyde/Shadow his "son-in-law". Basically I thought that he was her real grandfather on the maternal side.

Quote

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

It is stated in the game that Strago is a friend of Relm's father and not actually related to her (as said before, a lady in Thamasa's item shop will clue you in on this after the scene where you meet Strago and Relm). Since Shadow is Relm's father - and that we do know for sure - it means Clyde and Strago must have known each other for a while.

Like Silverlance said, Clyde stayed in Thamasa through Relm's birth and even until she was grown a little (as indicated by both his and her dreams). That's plenty of time for him and Strago to get to know each other. Strago just never brings up Clyde's identity, we can deduce, 'cause he doesn't recognize him in the ninja getup.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

This confused me a bit. On one hand, you're saying that they were friends to begin with, and the other you're saying they got to know each other while Relm was growing up. I assumed the latter, myself, though I may have just misunderstood what you were trying to say.

But really, if all we have to go off of is what the shopkeeper says, either is plausible it seems.

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Wilson: "That smugness of yours really is an attractive quality."
House: "Thank you. It was either that or get my hair highlighted. Smugness is easier to maintain."

Quote (L. Cully @ 31st July 2005 12:25)

Relm's lineage spoilers:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Relm is Shadow's (Clyde's) daughter. That's why they can both equip the Memento Ring, that's what Shadow's five dreams all suggest, and in the PSX ending FMV, there's a flash when Shadow is shown that has a whited-out image of Relm in it.

Really? I never played the PS version. What exactly do you see with Shadow?? I have the two movies from that version on my computer, is it in those?

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I'VE HAD AN ETERNITY TO PONDER THE MEANING OF THINGS. AND NOW I HAVE AN ANSWER...

Quote (because555 @ 1st August 2005 00:59)

Quote (L. Cully @ 31st July 2005 12:25)

Relm's lineage spoilers:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Relm is Shadow's (Clyde's) daughter.  That's why they can both equip the Memento Ring, that's what Shadow's five dreams all suggest, and in the PSX ending FMV, there's a flash when Shadow is shown that has a whited-out image of Relm in it.

Really? I never played the PS version. What exactly do you see with Shadow?? I have the two movies from that version on my computer, is it in those?

Indeed it is: the ending FMV (the one that starts in the Opera House). Between 1:18 and 1:19, you'll see the flash; pause it there, if you can. And you'll see it.

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Because555....

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

it's the ending movie (For The Lovers, I believe it's called). Shadow's on the Phantom Train, and at one point there's a bright flash of white, where the image is hidden. It's just her Amano concept art, and probably difficult to see without pausing it, but it's there.

EDIT: Oops, L. Cully beat me to it.

This post has been edited by Radia on 1st August 2005 06:34

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Wilson: "That smugness of yours really is an attractive quality."
House: "Thank you. It was either that or get my hair highlighted. Smugness is easier to maintain."

I've never seen so many spoiler boxes in my life

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

I personally think that it would be impossible for that thamassian woman (Relm's mother) to be Strago's daughter as someone stated, because that would still make Relm *Gasp* Strago's Granddaughter. It could be Strago's Niece, but that is about all, and could be very probable. She could have also been related to Gungho, but I doubt that very much. Could be more than probable that Relm is _somehow_ related to Strago. But not through a Granddaughter/Grandfather relationship. Possibly no relation at all, possibly a great niece (Relm is so great/grand isn't she... [/endpun]). Also, if you think about it, Shadow probably loved his wife very much, and after she passed on, was heartbroken and left the town. (And, don't forget, the death of his friend still haunted his dreams to the last couple of days of your journey). I think that Shadow is, in fact, one of the most dynamic characters in FF6. (Dynamic, right? That's changing, right? Stupid English terms...)

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Yes, Locke, dynamic=changing.

Either way, I'm sure most folks in the town were related somehow. In a town of thirty that's on a tiny island and has had magic powers in their blood for years, everyone's bound to know and be related to someone (fifth cousins, great great great aunts, etc).

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

So, I guess Relm's mom and Strago probably could have been kinfolk, and Gungho too, but I'm not sure it's too important.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Unless Shadow is Strago's son...

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Don't take this seriously. Please. The last thing I want to be responsible for is another lame theory with no foundation whatsoever in the game.

In japanese, grandfather is a term used when talking to old people you're familiar with. This applies somewhat in english too. My guess is that either this is how Strago got his name from her: out of familiarity.

Also, why are we talking in spoilers? At this point, it's pretty obvious this is a spoiler thread. 'Course, it's all secret-ninja-theory-like... >_>

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Rawr More Spoilers! And w00t for getting dynamic right! I knew that english course would teach me something o.o Did anyone ever think that maybe Strago knew who Shadow was the whole time and just didn't tell anyone else? Or maybe even Shadow doesn't realize who Relm is, but I doubt that. He's just too detached from emotion to care. But you see as the game goes on, he becomes emotional very fast. After 'selling his soul' to the empire. Which he didn't really, because he himself did nothing wrong, he was just hired for a day... and he winds up being Emo over it on the Floating Continent. But I still don't understand his suicidal take in Kefka's tower. I see why he does it to a point, but he must not care much about Relm, or figure she's grown up enough to fight for herself, or that Strago is going to be one of those 100-year-old relics (lol). But throughout the game, he seems a bit more focused on his Baram-buddy and Interceptor than his wife or kid.

Argh, enough ramblings. Final Point: Shadow is a bad daddy.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote (Locke_Cole @ 2nd August 2005 08:42)

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Rawr More Spoilers! And w00t for getting dynamic right! I knew that english course would teach me something o.o Did anyone ever think that maybe Strago knew who Shadow was the whole time and just didn't tell anyone else? Or maybe even Shadow doesn't realize who Relm is, but I doubt that. He's just too detached from emotion to care. But you see as the game goes on, he becomes emotional very fast. After 'selling his soul' to the empire. Which he didn't really, because he himself did nothing wrong, he was just hired for a day... and he winds up being Emo over it on the Floating Continent. But I still don't understand his suicidal take in Kefka's tower. I see why he does it to a point, but he must not care much about Relm, or figure she's grown up enough to fight for herself, or that Strago is going to be one of those 100-year-old relics (lol). But throughout the game, he seems a bit more focused on his Baram-buddy and Interceptor than his wife or kid.

Argh, enough ramblings. Final Point: Shadow is a bad daddy.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

I LIKE TALKING IN INVISIBLE INK

Anyway, I'm almost sure Strago knows who Shadow is. He and Shadow have that hushed conversation after Shadow saves Relm from the burning house (which he said he did just because he "wanted his dog back," but I don't much believe him there. Which means it's almost certain he knows who Relm is, or figures it out once Interceptor takes such a liking to her).

As for his suicidal state/not caring about Relm, I'm not as certain. Sure, he would count as a bad father, but I don't think he did it because he cared about other people more. I think probably when Relm's mother died, he started thinking what a worthless person he was and how Relm didn't deserve to have such a coward/criminal for a father. At that point I believe he tried to "kill his emotions" (as he says to Terra on the boat -- interesting as they're on their way to Thamasa at the time), but I don't think he quite succeeded. I do think he let himself die with Kefka's tower; his reasons were complex. Shadow is a most interesting character.

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Agreed.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

I'm convinced that Shadow and Strago both know exactly what's going on, and only Relm is in the dark about the nature of their true relationships. Also, I think Shadow withdraws from Relm (and eventually chooses suicide) rather than reveling the truth because he is ashamed of himself, his life, his leaving of Relm as an infant, etc. He would rather see her live her life free of the "burden" of his past, which isn't an uncommon literary device at all actually. Les Mis anyone?

Personally however, I think he should have come clean and started a new life with Relm after the fall of Kefka. I mean, you just saved the damn world, including your daughter and all of the people in Thamasa, when's a better time to clean the slate?

ummm... i'm sure that this doesn't men anything, but

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but in the WoR, relm talks to gungho outside and calls strago by his first name, so, maybe she alrady knew about th shadow/clyde thing

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i probably woudn't know, because everytime i try, i can never get a dream from shadow.YER WASTIN' ME MONEY.

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OBEY YOUR THIRST
"Aww...They're SOOO CUUTE!! BUT WHO CARES!!!!?"
-Excel Excel, Excel Saga

Quote

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but in the WoR, relm talks to gungho outside and calls strago by his first name, so, maybe she alrady knew about th shadow/clyde thing

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Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding you, but why would Relm knowing her grandfather's name mean she knows about the Clyde/Shadow bit? ;

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Wilson: "That smugness of yours really is an attractive quality."
House: "Thank you. It was either that or get my hair highlighted. Smugness is easier to maintain."

didn/t think it would mean anything, but now that i actually think about it...

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

wouldn't she say something like, `only my grandpa would fall for something like that!` maybe she doesn't know about the whole clyde/shadow thing, but maybe she knows that strago isn't her real grandfather?

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OBEY YOUR THIRST
"Aww...They're SOOO CUUTE!! BUT WHO CARES!!!!?"
-Excel Excel, Excel Saga

But Relm was never the most polite person, so she probably just evaded formalities and called him Strago!

Hehe... I was too sneaky to use spoiler tags...

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

Haha I can't believe you actually got away with that. Yeah, I was wondering why everything seemed Blanked out. Silly me and my noobiness.

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