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...Wasn't she fully aware and conscious of her life in the Empire? People seem to assume that she was forcefully under the mind control of Kefka/Gestahl due to the Slave Crown her whole life, but Kefka put the Slave Crown on Terra not too (relatively) long before the game begins. She wasn't that young, considering her appearance in the cutscene. Then she toasted all of those soldiers in minutes, proving her power, among other things, but before that, she was living in the Empire for almost twenty years, being raised by Gestahl (or some Imperial officials) ever since she was a baby. So why do people assume that she was just a mindless robot before that? I can imagine living in the Empire and growing up in it, she would have whole heartedly believed Imperial propaganda supporting the war and the takeover of the other countries on the continent. Though I don't think she grew up as a normal Imperial citizen, maybe under close watch while growing up like a special project, waiting to be old enough to be on the battlefield, similar to Sephiroth, or if you're familiar with all of the backstory, like the Spartan-II's from Halo. They weren't under forced mind control, they believed what they were doing was right, simply because they spent their entire lives living under that flag.


Obviously, Terra's Imperial patriotism wasn't enough for Kefka, who wanted total control over Terra (which it doesn't seem like Gestahl sanctioned the use of the Crown at first, but I guess agreed to it after seeing she would kill without remorse or hesitation with it on) Granted, the Slave Crown may have caused her to forget all of those years of living in the Empire, but why do people assume that Terra was under the Crown's influence her entire life, when we're pretty much forced to assume that she thought and was aware of her self for almost 18 or so years before Kefka put it on her?


Share your thoughts.

This post has been edited by Tryscal The Great on 7th July 2005 20:25

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

Well, personally, I think she may have merely been held in captivity, experimented on, maybe with prototype slave crowns. Perhaps the empire, having captured her, didn't know what to do, and feared being unable to control her. So, maybe, they tired slace crowns, and the first ones made her totally docile. Perhaps they could not commander her as she wished, and only until relativley recently in game, did the Empire develop a slave crown that really worked, and we see Kefka jubilant at the version he KNOWS will work. Say she's 16 or so then: an age difference insignificant to see actual change in her appearance.

Then, after some long testing, say, about six months, the test with the soldiers. It's a sucess. Kefka is jubilant, but to be sure, has a few other tests done. The event of the test becomes infamous in the army, and the rumours and stories spread like wildfire.

Cut to the start of the game. Maybe the slave crown is certified as fully functional. The two soldiers know who she is.

So, maybe she was under it's influence, but only to the extent that she doesn't HAVE anything to remember. All the testing, experimentation, and such, left her memories in tatters.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Maybe the slave crown was something only used when the Empire brought Terra out on missions like the Narshe caves in the opening. I would guess having your brain controlled by some device could lead to pretty nasty damage over time, so it's unlikely they'd have her slave-crowned permanently.

Then again, the whole "50 soldiers" bit does make it hard to believe she would be anything but new to the whole slave crown/going out in the world to further the Empire's goals thing.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

But if Terra was exposed to a lifetime of Slave Crowns, hell even any long term duration, if that was the case, she would have been a complete nutjob when Arvis finally took it off her. Throughout the entire game, she was well mannered, spoke pretty intelligently, and well, sane. A lifetime of Slave Crown experiments and magical testing would have made her so crazy, she would have put Kefka to shame. I really, really think she grew up as in a high position in Imperial society, extremely sheltered and not allowed to leave, mind you, but aside from the Empire trying their best to train her and her magical abilities for battle, I believe she had it made, with the best education and upbringing that the Empire had to offer. I HIGHLY doubt she grew up being grisly experimented on.


Remember, Terra was Gestahl's golden egg, and the key to the Empire's victory, he wouldn't risk too much poking and prodding. I don't think he loved her like a daughter or anything like that, but he sure as hell wouldn't risk turning her into a vegetable with extreme experimentation. The reason she was ready and willing to do whatever the Empire wanted to (besides from killing 50 of your own men, which she only did under the control of the crown) because she lived in the capital directly under the Emperor her whole life. Why would she question it? The entire continent was under Imperial control, she couldn't hear too many opposing opinions to their methods even if she wanted to.

This post has been edited by Tryscal The Great on 7th July 2005 21:06

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

Off on a side note, we don't know for sure that the entire continent was under Imperial control since she was born. From the way that Edgar makes it sound when Kefka and his goons visit Figaro, it sounds almost recent.

As for Terra, I'm under the thinking that perhaps the very reason why Gesthal allowed the slave crown (he had to on some level) to be put on Terra was because she saw what others lived like. Maybe she started to figure out that the morales and such the Empire was built on just didn't sit right with her.

Now, this is complete theory, but maybe a Returner sympathizer found her, and started to convince her to join the Returners, but then she was found out or something like that, then she had the crown put on her head. I've always considered that Celes and Terra were probably raised very similarly.

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|Daniel Wesley Rydell|Fanfiction.net|

Quote

Off on a side note, we don't know for sure that the entire continent was under Imperial control since she was born. From the way that Edgar makes it sound when Kefka and his goons visit Figaro, it sounds almost recent.

True, especially since according to the official timeline, Gestahl only really rose to power after he found the Esper World, just 20 years ago. But, how far do you really think Terra went from Vector? It's supposedly a pretty big city, she really wouldn't have too much reason to leave, unless she was sent on a mission (WITHOUT THE SLAVE CROWN, mind you).

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

In my opinion, she was kept in relative isolation -- as a scientific curiosity, after all -- but still had some human contact/education until, say, the onslaught of puberty, when I suspect she began to rebel against and resist her keepers. She was two when she was taken from her mother, and although that's young, it's old enough to remember there was something before the Empire and that something was very wrong. From puberty till the "fifty soldiers" scene? Well, I have my own theory about that...

EDIT: Remember that Gestahl knew that she was half-Esper, and both he and Kefka view Espers as something like animals. A privileged upbringing, therefore, was unlikely for her, I think.

This post has been edited by L. Cully on 7th July 2005 22:53

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Am I the only one who thinks Terra was raised in a good way before the Slave Crown incident? She seems too valuble to be kept up in a dank room with horrible treatment. When people in power want to use someone else for a long term, high goal, they intend to keep said person comfortable so they feel more willing to comply. If not, they can rebel, run away, or kill themselves or something.


Especially after 20 or so years of crappy treatment.

This post has been edited by Tryscal The Great on 7th July 2005 22:59

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

I think Terra was brought up as part of the empire. Aside from Gestahl, Im not sure what kind of royalty Vector had, but more than likely, Terra was adopted by one of the generals or a politician and raised as a normal child. Who? Im not sure - only three generals are mentioned and all three are pretty much accounted for. Maybe Gestalh raised her as his own... but I doubt it.

As far as the slave crown... Arvis was familiar with technology, so it can't be something newly developed, more likely it would be like our electroshock therapy - been around for a while and frowned upon. I don't think she wore it her whole life, but probably for a couple years. Im pretty sure that Terra was instrumental in the takeover of the southern continent thanks to that thing.

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Oh sure, I don't have to get kicked in the junk to activate it, but I like it anyway. -- Thief commenting on the difference between Throw and Blue Magic.

If they could manipulate her from day one, then they wouldn't have to worry about it. They never thought she would see the outside world, except when she was serving her country, I guess.

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|Daniel Wesley Rydell|Fanfiction.net|

There's one thing that I've realised: Terra lost her memory after the slave crown incident. She could've just been manipulated by Ghestal into thinking what she was doing was good during her early years.

As for the slave crown, it could've just been as a means of controlling her better on what may've been her first mission. Letting someone as powerful and valuable as her walk around unchecked could lead to problems if she were persuaded the Empire was bad or got captured by the opposition.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote

Quote

Off on a side note, we don't know for sure that the entire continent was under Imperial control since she was born. From the way that Edgar makes it sound when Kefka and his goons visit Figaro, it sounds almost recent.

True, especially since according to the official timeline, Gestahl only really rose to power after he found the Esper World, just 20 years ago. But, how far do you really think Terra went from Vector? It's supposedly a pretty big city, she really wouldn't have too much reason to leave, unless she was sent on a mission (WITHOUT THE SLAVE CROWN, mind you).

According to the timeline I have, the Empire conquers the southern continent 8 years before the game. (The campaign was the first real use of magitech armor, and seems to have been very one-sided.) Terra, of course, would have been 10.

This seems to be a weak point in Terra's back-story. If she had memories of Vector, she does not seem to regain them. If she played a part in the development of the Empire's techology, it would be odd for Cid to never mention her. It makes think that the Empire's researchers either determined that they had learned all they could from her when she was still very young, or they were never able to find a use for her at all.

Or perhaps she wasn't in Vector.

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"Cavefish is delicious, but only if cooked."

It is a time to speculate, and I speculate

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

she was kept in something like the esper holding tanks. If that technology was not around when the empire first got a hold of her, then she was perhaps raised/groomed to be an eventual empress.
And, to me, esper = almost godlike power, so I tended to resolve her age by thinking she grew into a woman faster than a human, on account of her esper blood.

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An Eternity To Man Is But A Moment To God

I saw a quote yesterday... trying to remember what it was that supports my theory that the Empire takeover was less than 8 years ago... but I can't remember what it is.

Just out of curiosity and for speculations sake, Shiva Indris, if Terra wasn't kept in Vector, where do you think she might have been?

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|Daniel Wesley Rydell|Fanfiction.net|

I always though Terra was kept under the Slave Crown all her life and was train to be like a killing manchine her with magic. I never thought that Terra wasn't under the Slave Crown mind control all her life. I guess if she was under the control of the Slave Crown for all her life without getting it remove, she would had been extremly mindless, pyschopathic, and crazy, but I guess Ghestal would have the Slave Crown remove from Terra from time to time so nothing would happen to her.



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Life....Hopes...Dreams. Where did they came from and where are the headed? These Things...I am going to destory!
-Kefka

Well, we know that for sixteen years Terra's father was kept imprisoned in the Magitek Research Facility, along with all the other Espers Gestahl captured on that raid. Pretty crappy existence. I don't think he treated Terra /exactly/ the same as her father, but seeing as how (a) she was half-Esper and therefore "not deserving," one would imagine, of the rights a full human would have, and (b ) a source of great scientific and militaristic interest to the Empire at large, I just don't think she would have been raised without constant scrutiny and testing. /Especially/ not to be a future empress or some such thing, which would threaten Gestahl's authority to no end. That's another reason I suspect she was kept on a very short leash.

This post has been edited by L. Cully on 9th July 2005 02:51

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Quote (alpha&omega @ 7th July 2005 22:54)

It is a time to speculate, and I speculate

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

she was kept in something like the esper holding tanks. If that technology was not around when the empire first got a hold of her, then she was perhaps raised/groomed to be an eventual empress.
And, to me, esper = almost godlike power, so I tended to resolve her age by thinking she grew into a woman faster than a human, on account of her esper blood.

That makes quite a bit of sense, come to think of it.

This theory gets my vote as well. Ghestal would probably have no use for her until she'd mature enough to use her powers anyways.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (L. Cully @ 8th July 2005 21:51)

Well, we know that for sixteen years Terra's father was kept imprisoned in the Magitek Research Facility, along with all the other Espers Gestahl captured on that raid. Pretty crappy existence. I don't think he treated Terra /exactly/ the same as her father, but seeing as how (a) she was half-Esper and therefore "not deserving," one would imagine, of the rights a full human would have, and (b ) a source of great scientific and militaristic interest to the Empire at large, I just don't think she would have been raised without constant scrutiny and testing. /Especially/ not to be a future empress or some such thing, which would threaten Gestahl's authority to no end. That's another reason I suspect she was kept on a very short leash.

Good point. Leo mentions that he knew she was being used as a biological weapon, so she was definitely treated different from the captured espers. She was a once in a lifetime opportunity, a child born with the abilities of Magitek Knights. Obviously there would have been constant scrutiny, and constant, non-destructive, testing. She wouldn't be brought up to be a future Empress, but I still think she might have been brought up in one of the military families. Perhaps not, its hard to guess at Gestahl's intentions (especially since he's a lying sob).

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Oh sure, I don't have to get kicked in the junk to activate it, but I like it anyway. -- Thief commenting on the difference between Throw and Blue Magic.

I think she was kept under strict supervision, maybe in a sort of military school or such. She has many of the same skills as Celes, which, to me, suggests they had similar upbringings, and it seems to me that Celes was raised to be a hardened soldier.

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Quote (Insomniac by Choice)

There is nothing in this existence, no good, no evil. There is only selfishness and selflessness, both equal in their worth

I can't say that much. Terra's past is not specified in the game, but according to common sense, she have education, military training and that kind of stuff. She probably has grew up without proper afection, otherwise Gestahl would been her paternal figure. She developed her personality that way ,mainly for isolation. Perhaps Cid raised her , (but it seem that he doesn't know her), who knows. But since she doesn't knew Celes that well, ( she even asked her if she falled in love sometime, and they both don't seem to know each other.), nobody can say that sure. Kefka controlled her, that for sure. Perhaps the whole "Terra no Keikaku" ( Terra's project) was Kefka's idea, to keep her forgetting her past, and killing her emotions for being a biological weapon, which makes some sense.
But as I said in the beginning , there not actual clues about Terra's past.

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

Well, I guess we can all agree that she got some sort of education, military training, and SOME sort of upbringing, because if anything else, she still is and acts like an intelligent human.

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

Indeed we can. Cheers, gentlemen, to a topic well done.

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Indeed but what I like to think (and the way I had it in one fanfic I wrote) is that she escaped while a teenage and then was recaptured and forced to wear the slave crown. But that is the beauty of FF6 there are alot of opportunities open for fan interpretation.

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War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

And it's why we are all here.

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|Daniel Wesley Rydell|Fanfiction.net|

Well, let's first examine what we DO know about Terra:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

1) She's an esper

This tells us where her magic power came from. Celes' came from an

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Esper

---Okay, from now on, pretend this whole thing should be in spoilers---
So, in addition Terra was stolen as a child by Ghesthal from Maduin and Madonna. This is somewhat odd, seeing as she wasn't in a slave crown her ENTIRE life. What's also weird is how pretty much everyone besides Kefka and Ghesthal don't have a clue about her. I'm thinking that she was personally raised by someone... but who? Cid never mentions her, Leo never really mentioned her and approaches her as a new friend... Ghesthal is a definite possibility... If Kefka raised her she wouldn't be needing that slave crown. Vicks and Wedge? I sincerely doubt it or else she'd probably be pregnant... >_>
It seems that she did burn 50 of their best soldiers in under whatever amount of minutes, which is a bit odd that she'd turn against her own kind... there's really no backstory to her growing up either? Plothole? Maybe. But, if you think about it, she must've been held in captivity. In addition, wouldn't it make sense if the sadistic Kefka had her watchkeepers killed? Her watchkeepers might've been a nice old lady, a few training instructors, etc. Disposable. Or maybe a couple from some remote town. Having them killed before your eyes as 50 guards come along to take you away are probably going to make you go Esper on them, and that's probably when she wiped out the army. Kefka, after using the 50 guards as a meat wall, knocked her unconcious with his stolen Esper magic, slamed the crown on her head, and dragged her off. Good enough, eh? Seems like Fanfic Fodder if you ask me.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Kinda makes sense, but you have to rememeber, at this point, Kefka can't do too much without the Emperor to agree with it. So even if he did do all of this, he must have had some serious gift of gab to convine Gestahl to not kill him afterwards.

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

We see in the game that Kefka had her up in his little room of torture (It scares me what he COULD have done in that room) and that's when we see the crown put on her head. And Kefka ordered her to roast those 50 soldiers, we see it.

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|Daniel Wesley Rydell|Fanfiction.net|

I fancy the idea that Terra was raised in the Magitek Facitlity, or somewhere within Vector. It's clear that she didn't have a normal upbringing, seeing as she has no concept of love in the beginning, and seems frankly clueless about most things. I figure she was raised by researchers. She was likely tested, observed, and had her mind more than a little warped, during her developmental stages. When her powers were of sufficent potency, she was given over to Kefka, who slipped on a slave crown for obedience, and tested out his new weapon that was 18 years in the making.

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TURKEY! - (The only way not to get blocked for using Fowl Language)

Quote (Ultros: Octopus Royalty @ 18th July 2005 21:54)

I fancy the idea that Terra was raised in the Magitek Facitlity, or somewhere within Vector. It's clear that she didn't have a normal upbringing, seeing as she has no concept of love in the beginning, and seems frankly clueless about most things. I figure she was raised by researchers. She was likely tested, observed, and had her mind more than a little warped, during her developmental stages. When her powers were of sufficent potency, she was given over to Kefka, who slipped on a slave crown for obedience, and tested out his new weapon that was 18 years in the making.

My thoughts exactly.

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet