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So Super_Moogle and I were talking about this and we really couldn't come up with a decisive answer. Perhaps you could help. Who would win in a one on one battle? I know they have done this a few times in the comics, though they usually leave the victor a little unclear.

Personally, I think if it were a one on one fight Superman would own Batman. Seriously, think about it, all it wuld take is one solid punch from the man in blue and Batman's head would literally fly right off. However, if Batman has the opportunity to prepare, the battle could turn out different. I still believe Supes would win at least 3 out of 4 matches.

So tell me, who do you think would win?

Edit

By the way, I'm not really talking about the characters from the movies (though EVERYONE should go see Batman Begins), I'm talking about the characters from the comics. Doesn't really matter what DC age.

This post has been edited by Hanyou on 30th June 2005 06:01

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"My impersonation of an ordinary person was flawless." - Neal

"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss

Batman! i a new movie makes all the differents.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

Batman would win. I'll discuss this issue from two points: first in terms of the logic of our world, and then in terms of the logic of the DC Universe.

First, the real world. It is an established fact that the powers of conventional American superheroes are directly proportional to their popularity. Although Batman and Superman are equally identifiable and recognizable, among comic book readers Batman is far and away more popular. Thanks to the jaded, postmodern tastes of the industry's current demographic, a dark and enigmatic antihero template like Batman is naturally more attractive to the consumer than a straightforward superhero. This alone gives the Dark Knight the edge in any confrontation; in a given comic book where the two clash, the readers want Batman to win, hence his numerous victories. Regardless of how improbable it seems - although by the standards of the established DC Universe as it is, it isn't nearly as improbable as it appears objectively - Batman triumphs over Superman due to the will of the writers, who want to please their fanbase and have to work on a longstanding legacy of the cool, mysterious Batman continually outshining the nearly invincible Superman due to sheer force of appeal. This lends to the "super Batman" phenomenon, where Batman's intelligence, resourcefulness, and technological savvy are amped to boggling levels so that he can be presented as equal to - and often superior to - super-powered individuals. This is especially prevalent in anything involving the Justice League, where Batman is directly contrasted with his superhero compatriots.

But enough about real-world reasoning. Let's turn to the physics of the DC Universe. Pretty much any argument about conflicts between superheroes is superseded by the established fact that, given sufficient time for study and prepare, Batman can beat anybody. "So, what?" you might ask. "All Superman has to do is ambush Batman unawares, and he'll win with his super-strength, flight, heat vision, etc." However, this is untrue on two fundamental levels.

First and foremost, Batman doesn't ever need preparation for any conflict with Superman, because he is always prepared to fight him. A key aspect of Batman's character is that he trusts no one fully, and this goes double for a being with insurmountable powers. Unlike many, Batman understands that everyone is corruptible, and is thoroughly prepared to defeat Superman if necessary. Because Superman poses the biggest threat if somehow twisted towards an evil end, Batman is continually prepared to defeat him. The idea of a showdown between the two is always in the back of his mind, as evidenced by the numerous mainstream/alternate universe and possible futures (especially DKR) where Batman confronts and defeats Superman.

Beyond this, however, is the question of Batman's truest strength - his understanding of psychology. Although you could make an argument for Superman being able to kill Batman before he knew what hit him, or what have you, the whole point is that Batman knows that Superman, as a paragon of righteousness and virtue, would never do anything of the sort. Kryptonite notwithstanding, Superman's greatest weakness is his personality - he totally and abjectly lacks the capacity to be ruthless and decisive. These are two characteristics that Batman possesses in earnest, and he is smart enough and thorough enough to exploit such faults in Superman's character. Although I'm fairly sure that Batman would be able to triumph even if Superman went insane/evil and lost all of his psychological limitations (see above), the mere fact that Superman is honorable, merciful, and just gives him an immediate and fatal disadvantage.

To quote Ryan Sosa: "Batman. He keeps doing it over and over again, how many more examples do you need?"

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Superman is a guy who was born with powers; Batman is just a regular joe with a bunch of gadgets. Clark Kent gets my vote, even though I don't like him as much as ol' Bruce.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

I was gonna say Superman, since he's got superpowers and whatnot, but I have to say that Super Moogle's explanations make a LOT of sense... so I'll vote Batman.

Batman's way cooler, anyway.

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

Here's how I look at it. The two would never actually [i]fight[i], they both recognize that they are on the same side. However at some point it's conceivable that they would have a conflict of ideologies and would want to achieve different goals on a certain issue. So the way you have to look at it would be... Which superhero would manage to get his goals achieved through direct conflict or other means.

Batman, hands down.

Supes is definately clever in his own right, but he isn't the schemer Batman is. He just can't plan and execute to the same degree.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

batman would win, superman is held back by honour IE batman is weaker, slower and generally less powered than superman, so clark cant let loose his full mojo, wereas batman, being only human, is free to use watever meens necisery to beat superman EG hold lois hostage, kryptonite, battle armour etc

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Failure is not an option. its an art form

Anything Id say would just be a clone of the Moogle's post. Ah well.
To paraphrase Superman <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,..........etc etc al Batman





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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

All I have to say is that a batarang isn't going to stop laser eye beams.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

Welllll, as long as Batman has a hunk of Kryptonite, Superman is a decrepid carcass ready for Batman to finish him off or to take him away somehow.

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

Quote (FabulousFreebird @ 30th June 2005 15:40)

Welllll, as long as Batman has a hunk of Kryptonite, Superman is a decrepid carcass ready for Batman to finish him off or to take him away somehow.

This scenario was demonstrated during Year One. Superman simply got rid of the kryptonite from a distance, then proceeded to beat the hell out of Batman. Just an example of where that worked, though Batman has used it successfully against him in other instances.

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"My impersonation of an ordinary person was flawless." - Neal

"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss

I enjoyed readind SuperMoogle's post. Unlike Superman, Batman would be prepared for that battle. But in terms of "no cheating", Superman would defeat him undoubtely, in a fraction of second ...but that's if they fight. Considering Kryptonite , Batman would win fo sure...c'mon even Heidi would do it.I voted for Superman, BTW.

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

It's a tough call. I'll begin by saying that Batman is my favorite comic book character, and I'd definitely want him to win. I like that Batman is the most realistic of the superheroes, in that he's a guy without superpowers who happens to be resourceful: filthy rich, trained in the art of the ninja, a detective, and, according to Homer Simpson, a scientist. Batman had to pool his resources and put a lot of hard work into making himself a superhero. Superman was born with all of his abilities, and is very reserved in the way he uses them. I also like the dark and gothic feel of the Batman comics, as opposed to Superman's squeaky clean boyscout image.

I don't really know who would win in a fight, partially because I haven't read comics in awhile. The last Superman/Batman crossover I read involved a mysterious murder, Gangbuster (another normal-guy superhero like Batman), and a Kryptonite ring. At the end of that three issue series, Superman ended up giving Batman the ring, telling him that if he ever needed to be stopped Batman was the one to do it. That indicates to me that Superman knew, in a must win situation, that Batman could stop him.

Of course, that's assuming Superman turned to the dark side and HAD to be stopped. If the reverse happened, and Batman went on a killing streak (where he'd probably do a lot less damage than Superman) I'm sure Superman would use all of his powers to stop him. In that sort of situation, I would give the edge to Superman. I suppose it depends on who is on the side of right.

But I might also be a little naive. Super Moogle made a lot of good points, and like I said earlier, I haven't read comics in awhile. I was going under the assumption that Batman and Superman were still friends. Silly me.

A friend of mine was telling me about some recent Batman/Superman fight. Superman broke into the Batcave and apparently Batman mopped the floor with him, shooting a Kyrptonite tipped arrow into him (or something?). Now I don't understand the context behind that situation, and maybe it was an alternate universe where Superman turned to evil. If that's the case, then what I said earlier--whoever is on the side of right wins--still holds true. If that wasn't the case, then I'd say Batman really won because he's more popular. Like Super Moogle said, the youth of today are jaded and postmodern. Who wants the boyscout to win?

But if we're looking at it rationally, without taking fan appeal or comic sales into account, I think in a fair fight that Superman could win. He is the most powerful being on Earth, as oppossed to a regular guy with no superpowers beyond his wealth and intelligence. Although, yet again, Super Moogle makes a good point. Batman has an edge about him, a grittiness that Superman is lacking. Superman never fights without reservation, whereas Batman can easily unleash his dark side. So if Superman found himself engaged in a hypothetical fair fight, where neither party was in the wrong and Superman didn't have to stop Batman no matter what, Batman's darker disposition may allow him an edge.

And after writing all of that, I'll probably null vote. I'll leave well enough alone and say I don't know the answer.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 30th June 2005 01:16)

To quote Ryan Sosa: "Batman. He keeps doing it over and over again, how many more examples do you need?"

Batman. You can't argue with Ryan "Red mage" Sosa.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 30th June 2005 20:09)

A friend of mine was telling me about some recent Batman/Superman fight.  Superman broke into the Batcave and apparently Batman mopped the floor with him, shooting a Kyrptonite tipped arrow into him (or something?).  Now I don't understand the context behind that situation, and maybe it was an alternate universe where Superman turned to evil.

From what I can piece together, your friend was referring to the monumentous Batman/Superman fight in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. In addition to being one of the finest comic books ever created in the superhero genre (or indeed any genre), it is often pointed to as the most visible - though by no means the only - example of Batman's superiority. In the story, Batman clearly and unequivocally bests Superman on a physical and intellectual level, first by beating him to a pulp using a cybernetically enhanced power suit and synthesized kryptonite, then by escaping the authorities completely.

In case you were wondering, the scenario that led to the conflict was that Superman had turned into a government agent in order to continue his superhero work. Batman, who had recently come out of retirement, was considered too volatile and dangerous to be allowed in "modern" Gotham City, so the President dispatched Superman to take him down. Of course, it didn't turn out exactly as they'd planned.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 1st July 2005 05:17

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I think that we must all agree to disagree. The simple fact of the matter is, if Superman suddenly snapped (no warning), he's gonna beat the crap out of Batman, no problem. My reason for this is twofold. One: superman has super powers, batman doesn't. Second: if superman snaps with no warning, it is my understanding that batman's standard gear doesn't contain a Kryptonite "superman owning" device. Therefore superman wins, much as I hate him (though I hate batman too, so it doesn't really matter)

Batman.


This post has been edited by L. Cully on 1st July 2005 23:06

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

It's nearly impossible to say because the characters are set up in a way that it would prevent a full-on fight. They're on the same side, they both hold back, the only situation it's come up is when Superman is mind-controlled and holding back because he's trying to break free.
So let's try and look at the Crime Syndicate versions of them (the evil Justice League from a parallel universe). But because the entire universe's nature is changed in that one, Ultraman is weaker and dumber than Superman because he's human and not Kryptonian, and Owlman has an edge on Batman because he's not against killing. Any story I've read involving the CSA had Owlman walking on eggshells whenever he's around Ultraman. Ultraman wins easy because all he needs is one punch or to fly into orbit and fry Owlman.

Quote (Moglv99 @ 30th June 2005 19:54)

Considering Kryptonite , Batman would win fo sure

Teen Titans #25, Part 3 of a crossover with The Outsiders (good read, so far), Lex Luthor says:
"I've studied him for years. I know more about the alien than anyone on Earth. Kryptonite and magic will hurt him--but that's not what will destroy him. It never will be. You have to reach deeper. You have to find something he loves. Or create something he will love. He loves his boy. And when his boy turns against the Justice League's children, when Superman buries those coffins... Well, that... that will kill him."

Every time Kryptonite or magic is used against Superman, he overcomes it. The only times he doesn't is when he fights Batman - the only fights where the story demands he be beaten. It really bugs me how Superman is the one to cross the line or get mind-controlled. Batman is the one who walks the line, and the man walking the line has far better odds of crossing it than the man who stands so far from the line that he can barely see it with his telescopic vision.
Which bugs me about the whole K-Ring issue. People have told me because it was if Superman crossed that line, and had to be put down, Batman would be the only leaguer that would kill him without hesitating. Two problems: 1) Batman would cross the line first. 2) Batman has a code against killing.
If that were the reason, better to give it to Wonder Woman (who Superman seems to trust alot more), who's been doing alot of that lately.

Something else that bugs me is that some people seem to think that since Batman has the K-Ring, he automatically has to win. This is partly why I like the Batman: Hush trade so much (the one L. Cully took a pic from). Loeb actually gives the situation some levity. Superman was under Poison Ivy's control, and that tiny piece of Kryptonite did nothing more than make Batman's punches effective, and had the fight lasted longer than it did, every bone in his hand would have shattered, and he would have lost. In the end, it was Superman who broke the control (because of a stunt pulled by Batman and Catwoman), and he's the only person I've ever seen to effectively resist Ivy's control when he refused to kill when she ordered him to.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 1st July 2005 01:17)

From what I can piece together, your friend was referring to the monumentous Batman/Superman fight in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.  In addition to being one of the finest comic books ever created in the superhero genre (or indeed any genre), it is often pointed to as the most visible - though by no means the only - example of Batman's superiority.  In the story, Batman clearly and unequivocally bests Superman on a physical and intellectual level, first by beating him to a pulp using a cybernetically enhanced power suit and synthesized kryptonite, then by escaping the authorities completely.

In case you were wondering, the scenario that led to the conflict was that Superman had turned into a government agent in order to continue his superhero work.  Batman, who had recently come out of retirement, was considered too volatile and dangerous to be allowed in "modern" Gotham City, so the President dispatched Superman to take him down.  Of course, it didn't turn out exactly as they'd planned.

That's the only thing related to comics I have ever returned. Go ahead and blame it on being horrendously dated, but I kept Crisis.

Those kinds of stories mainly depend on your interpretation of it. It shows Batman's superiority in beating weaker people senseless and taking drugs, but you have to look at the passing mentions of what caused the world to be how it was - superheroes are banned. Superman could not give up being a hero, the only one who could not give it up, so he did whatever he could to continue saving people. And the reason why everyone had to give it up seemed like it was Batman's fault.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 30th June 2005 21:09)

I like that Batman is the most realistic of the superheroes [...] filthy rich, trained in the art of the ninja, a detective, and a scientist.

Realistic.
Also, he's not the only superhero without superpowers.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 30th June 2005 21:09)

I also like the dark and gothic feel of the Batman comics, as opposed to Superman's squeaky clean boyscout image.

Go read "For Tomorrow" in Superman #204-215, and see how "squeaky clean" his image was.
Also, that arc officially makes Superman smarter than Batman.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

I've just recently begun to dabble in the DC Universe of Comic Books:
1)Due to my Friends and Family all throwing Marvel at me
2)I had a Spiderman faze for the last 6 years
So due to that I'm not as insightful as Super Moogle persay but I do believe that Batman would be the winner in the end. Although Batman would never kill Superman he would most definetly find a way to contain or atleast subdue Superman long enough to find a solution.

And as to Batman walking "On the line" I believe that although Batman is the darkest persona that a DC hero Portrays he is also the one with the strongest ideals and loyalty to justice. Batman simply owes his alliegence to Justice itself there for making him more of a single player. When in fact he may be the most rightious hero of them all.

The other thing I like about Batman is that in reality he is only just Bruce Wayne and even though he has no "Super Powers" he manages to overcome this adversity and fight crime anyway. Which I believe is far more heroic then Spiderman or Superman or any other. The fact of the matter is Bruce Wayne is so dedicated to Justice that he Worked and Worked his whole life just to make himself into something more then just a man. By far I'd have to say Batman walks no line, he walks with Justice wherever that may take him.

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- The problem isn't relgion, the problem is religious tolerance -

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 2nd July 2005 00:51)

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 30th June 2005 21:09)

I like that Batman is the most realistic of the superheroes [...] filthy rich, trained in the art of the ninja, a detective, and a scientist.

Realistic.

Meaning that someone who is filthy rich and well trained has a better chance of being a superhero than you or I, and makes more sense than a human looking alien crash landing on Earth and being raised by farmers.

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 2nd July 2005 00:51)

Also, he's not the only superhero without superpowers.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 30th June 2005 20:09)

in that he's a guy without superpowers who happens to be resourceful

The last Superman/Batman crossover I read involved...Gangbuster (another normal-guy superhero like Batman)

I just thought of something: in the odd chance that Superman DID become evil or something and started attacking Batman with NO WARNING, Batman could STILL win, because... he could RUN AWAY! Batman is a master of stealth and whatnot, and it wouldn''t be TOO hard for him to escape to safety in another town, country, or whatever. And THEN he'd already know that Superman was out to get him, so THEN he'd have time to make a plan.

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The island bathes in the sun's bright rays
Distant hills wear a shroud of grey
A lonely breeze whispers in the trees
Sole witness to history

ICO-You were there-

You'd think that after alla these years, Superman would develop protection against Kryptonite of some kind. Kryptonite-proof armor, cape, belt, pills, or something. If not him, then some scientist he knows.

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

Lead is one of the only known substances that can block kryptonite radiation. I can't really see Superman saving the day in lead armor, or a lead-lined cape.

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I can't think of anything to say, really, except... I think it's nice... Ha ha ha!

I think most would say Superman on hearing this question. But Super moogle puts forth a superb argument. I'd have to say you definately couldn't say there is any definite winner though. I prefer Batman, he has style, lol.

Obviously it depends on the circumstances, I think usually Superman would usually have the edge most of the time (I wish it wasn't so).

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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

Is the kryptonite that weakens Superman the same as the element in the periodic table? I thought their context was modified for the comic and movie usage.

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It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

Kryptonite in the DC Universe is not the same kryptonite in the good old real world, for obvious continuity reasons. What's more interesting is the fact that DC writers have never bothered to address this: perhaps our kryptonite has some different name in the DC Universe?

DP: You really need to read better. Dark Knight Returns is indeed a psychological journey for the Batman character (and indeed, the very fabric of the Batman mythos), but it also delves into the philosophy of the Superman character. Superman, in his idealistically right-minded but practically incompetent desire to keep playing the "good guy," is ultimately undermined by his own hypocrisy - he is a running dog for a Fascist government, blinded by his own desire to "do the right thing" with his powers. Though Batman displays traces of horrible psychological disorders throughout the story, in many ways he is the most sane person alive, willing to look past societal conventions and circumstances to deliver justice on a grand scale. The extent of Superman's fall (and Batman's simultaneous ascension) is well developed in DKR, but is even more pronounced in the sequel, The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Although DKSA is nowhere near the masterpiece that DKR is, it does present an even more definitive take on Superman's degradation, one which I have always appreciated.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Uh, looking back, my answer's kind of dicey. I'll fix it:
Realistically, Batman could never beat Superman. The victor of an individual fight would have to do with MetroidMorphBall's "Right makes Might" answer. The winner will be whoever the story demands be the winner. Lately, (mainly to do with SM's explanation of the anti-hero worshipping demographic) the only time Superman fights another superhero (primarily Batman) it is when the story demands that Superman lose. To cover themselves, the writers tend throw in something that would show Superman holding back a great deal more than he normally does (mind-control, mostly).

Quote (Spiffyness @ 2nd July 2005 16:11)

I just thought of something: in the odd chance that Superman DID become evil or something and started attacking Batman with NO WARNING, Batman could  STILL win, because... he could RUN AWAY!  Batman is a master of stealth and whatnot, and it wouldn''t be TOO hard for him to escape to safety in another town, country, or whatever.  And THEN he'd already know that Superman was out to get him, so THEN he'd have time to make a plan.

The problem with Batman running away is that Superman is alot faster than he is, and is impossible to hide from. X-Ray vision and super-hearing can find anyone.

Quote (FabulousFreebird @ 2nd July 2005 16:37)

You'd think that after alla these years, Superman would develop protection against Kryptonite of some kind. Kryptonite-proof armor, cape, belt, pills, or something. If not him, then some scientist he knows.

Only problem is that any kind of armor gets in the way. Spandex allows maximum movement, cuts down on wind resistance, and only needs to be replaced after every other fight rather than after every fight. He doesn't need any kind of reinforcement to cover him, he just needs something to cover him.
As for the pills... I don't think anyone would want to see a druggie superhero. Besides, Kryptonite doesn't work that way. Do we have medication that can make us immune to nuclear fallout?

Quote (Shotgunnova @ 3rd July 2005 17:25)

Is the kryptonite that weakens Superman the same as the element in the periodic table? I thought their context was modified for the comic and movie usage.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 3rd July 2005 23:33)

Kryptonite in the DC Universe is not the same kryptonite in the good old real world, for obvious continuity reasons.  What's more interesting is the fact that DC writers have never bothered to address this: perhaps our kryptonite has some different name in the DC Universe?

Actually, the element is called Krypton

Quote (Super Moogle @ 3rd July 2005 23:33)

Dark Knight Returns is indeed a psychological journey for the Batman character (and indeed, the very fabric of the Batman mythos), but it also delves into the philosophy of the Superman character.  Superman, in his idealistically right-minded but practically incompetent desire to keep playing the "good guy," is ultimately undermined by his own hypocrisy - he is a running dog for a Fascist government, blinded by his own desire to "do the right thing" with his powers.  Though Batman displays traces of horrible psychological disorders throughout the story, in many ways he is the most sane person alive, willing to look past societal conventions and circumstances to deliver justice on a grand scale.

I interpreted it that way as well. I believe that if you can sit and come up with two opposite interpretations of a piece of writing, and have them both be valid, then the writer didn't do a very good job.
Plus all the political commentary was worth nothing more than a few eye-rolls.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 4th July 2005 23:42)

I interpreted it that way as well. I believe that if you can sit and come up with two opposite interpretations of a piece of writing, and have them both be valid, then the writer didn't do a very good job.

I believe there's a term for that. It's called "plot complexity." A talented writer doesn't spell everything out for you, and I think it's a testament to Miller's ability that two opposite spectra of sociopolitical and philosophical thought can find common ground in his work. Much of DKR is open to speculation, and the fact isn't due to sloppy writing; on the contrary, it's due to dialogue and plot structure that is deliberately ambiguous. DKR delves into certain social issues with varying levels of grace, but it cannot be faulted for excessive bias; on the contrary, like you said, it allows people of wildly different views to be satisfied with the work, despite their contrasting opinions.

The idea of Superman being "impossible to hide from" is only valid for Pre-Crisis Superman, who was a walking plot contradiction with virtually limitless powers. Golden Age Supes could more or less do anything he wanted by adding "super" to the beginning of some skill that he wished to perform, whether it be "super speed," "super strength," or "super math." (I'm not making that last one up.) Every single aspect of his abilities were pumped to ridiculous proportions that seemed to vary in magnitude from issue to issue; at various points he had developed telepathic powers and the ability to turn back time at will, and other such nonsense. That kind of Superman really was invincible, since his very character was a blank palette for writers to slap makeshift powers onto whenever it seemed convenient.

That's not to say that Batman didn't have his share of ridiculous developments during the period. After all, it was the infamous age of camp. While Superman could acquire any power by prefacing it with a "super," Batman could acquire any piece of technology conceivable - no matter how ludicrous - by adding the word "bat" to it. Audiences were eventually subjected to things like the Bat Rocket, which allowed the Dynamic Duo to travel in space to fight aliens, and the Bat Antidote, which could apparently cure any disease, poison, or injury instantly (some hero he was, for not sharing that little invention with the world). Because GA Superman had any power imaginable and GA Batman could use any science imaginable, any hypothetical conflict between the two could only end in a massive space-time implosion under the sheer weight of their combined improbability.

Those were the good old days where nothing really had to make any sort of sense. (Hence the invention of Krypto the Super Dog and Bat Woman.) I think a lot of the Superman arguments do stem from the ambiguity of his powers due to the wider recognition of the Golden Age Superman figure, more prominently featured in the movies and early cartoons. Of course, since GA Supes has effectively been erased from all DC continuity, we're left with the modern version - who, as I've stated numerous times before, is quite vulnerable to the modern Batman's notorious machinations.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 5th July 2005 05:52

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Superman wears blue Y-fronts and is just like, overpowered. It's makes it just pointless. "Lollerskates GODMOED!!"

Whereas as everything about Batman reaks of cool, he has origins that have seeped him in the most bitter of revenge, black costume, a few tame gadgets, and a solid right hook. "KABLAAM!" "POW" etc. Oh yeah and I have a Batman Vs. Predator comic which is cool, I knows theres a Superman one, but, meh, its the overpowered thing again.


dinnerdinnerdinnerdinner, dinnerdinnerdinnerdinner, BATMAN!

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EDIT; Ahhh, blast my impatience. Who would win in a fight? Superman. Batman'll just be sat around the cave munching on fried chicken, and he'll be a pool of batjuice before he knew what was happening.

This post has been edited by BASSsic on 5th July 2005 11:00

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Whether you take the doughnut hole as a blank space or as an entity unto itself is a purely metaphysical question and does not affect the taste of the doughnut one bit.

http://slightly-bitter.blog.co.uk

Quote (Super Moogle @ 5th July 2005 01:49)

I believe there's a term for that.  It's called "plot complexity."

That wasn't the case this time. In DKR, everything that isn't spelled out only had a passing mention.
Then again, I might not find it so bad if I didn't find it horrendously dated, or if I read the sequel.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 5th July 2005 01:49)

The idea of Superman being "impossible to hide from" is only valid for Pre-Crisis Superman, who was a walking plot contradiction with virtually limitless powers.  Golden Age Supes could more or less do anything he wanted by adding "super" to the beginning of some skill that he wished to perform, whether it be "super speed," "super strength," or "super math."  (I'm not making that last one up.)  Every single aspect of his abilities were pumped to ridiculous proportions that seemed to vary in magnitude from issue to issue; at various points he had developed telepathic powers and the ability to turn back time at will, and other such nonsense.  That kind of Superman really was invincible, since his very character was a blank palette for writers to slap makeshift powers onto whenever it seemed convenient.

I have heard all those things about the Golden Age and Silver Age Superman, but the current Superman's abilities make it near impossible to just run away from him. He heard Lois get shot from half way around the world a few months ago; don't you think he can hear someone's heartbeat or breathing that he was at arms reach a few seconds ago?
The only version of Superman you can really do that to is the TAS version.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 5th July 2005 01:49)

While Superman could acquire any power by prefacing it with a "super," Batman could acquire any piece of technology conceivable - no matter how ludicrous - by adding the word "bat" to it.

Lol. Bat-shark Repellant

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer