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How come Delita was able to kill so many strong people who would have otherwise killed Ramza. With the way he kills everybody you would think he picked up assasination. Anyone care to emphasize?

Eh?

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I don't recall Delita killing many strong people. Bear in mind, however, that I haven't played in quite a while, and I'm pretty rusty on the game's events.

Delita killed Goltana, sure, but look at it this way. Goltana was an obese, unarmed 60 year old. Gelwan? He wasn't armed either. Ovelia? I highly doubt she could have killed him anyway. That guy disguised as Orlandu? The plan was that he'd die anyway, and he agreed. Balmafula? She wasn't killed, and according to her profile her love for Delita rendered her unable to draw her sword against him.

I'm missing some people here, aren't I? That's all I can remember off the top of my head, and I doubt any of them would warrant as a particularly "strong" person, capable of killing Ramza.

As for the way in which he killed most of these guys, remember that Delita was pretty clever. He tricked Goltana into trusting him, he framed Gelwan so that no one would try to stop him from killing him, et cetera. He's not about to challenge any of them to an honourable duel, now, is he? That would be fair. And Delita doesn't play that way.

This post has been edited by MarquisElmdor on 28th May 2005 20:17

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Let's not forget Minister Gelwan, when he was suspected of trahison

I think there aren't many others...
Well of course if we are talking of storyline means, beacause when he's a guest in some battles, He sure kills.

Too bad we can't have him in the last chapter with his Divine Knight job...

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Sayonara

I honestly don't remember Delita outright killing someone who was that powerful. He was smart about it, and when he killed someone, there was usually a detailed strategy behind it, in other words they were means to an end.

I don't think Delita would have been marked as an assassin (or by an assassin) for the simple reason that he did his deeds under the eye of more powerful people. When he killed Gelwan, not only did Goltana see it, but so did Orlandu and Olan; When Goltana was slain, no one else was present to see it occur. Having higher-ups condone the deaths by not speaking out against them is an easy way to get other people to stay quiet (at least in their presence; who knows if it could happen to them!). The fight with Zalmo was about the only time that anyone had insider information on Delita, but only Balmafula, Ramza, and his cohorts saw it--not exactly a good time to snip his childhood friend's puppet strings.

Delita was a crafty fox of a character, and he had more "street smarts" than poor, naive Ramza had; that's a comparison that doesn't change through the game's duration. As the plot progresses, it's easy to see that Delita has a personality that calls for meticulously planning (premeditation) while Ramza follows his heart no matter the consequences (recklessness).

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At the risk of posting too damn much right after signing up....



Delita WAS an assassin. His entire purpose was basically to make these bastards pay for existing. He blamed nobles in general for...

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Yea...like ANYONE here doesn't know this...
...the death of his sister. He was fed up with the have/have not segregation, and the way that peasants were essentially dogs to the nobles. As such, he set out to A) Change his station in life, B) Avenge Tita indirectly(Possibly directly since Zalbag DID order it and was killed by Ramza. He may have been on Delita's 'hit list'), C) weaken the nobles (He didn't mastermind the lion war, but he helped implement it), D) create a socio-economic situation that allowed people to rise and fall based on their merits, not their pedigree.

When all was said and done, he had killed everything that even looked at him funny and wasn't killed by something else, using Ramza as a proxy in several instances I beleive, such as the Cardinal Draclau (Yea...like that name ISN'T evil...). Hell, Delita was using Ramza the WHOLE time as a proxy to remove people.

So...long story short, Delita will never be recongnized as an assassin, because he was too slick to let others notice what he was doing. He killed quite a few people, but all that can be traced to him (Legally speaking) were done with the approval of his superiors, and those that can't be traced..well, those were just fun ^_^

On a side note, it's been a long time since I actually BEAT the game, does anyone know why...

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Delita killed the princess? Going off of what I remember, there didn't seem to be much purpose to it.

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There is life after you've been to hell and back. The most wonderous of life. The grass is greener, scents smell better, the day is brighter, and you finally realize the worth of your own life. The trick however, is getting back.
- Jonas Owen

I look at him as more of a rogue agent than as an assasin. He changes sides and allegiances, with only his own interests maintaining importance. He'll gladly take up the cause of others if it furthers his own.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

He wasn't really an assasain. If he was, he would have been like the one chick that threw the guy off of Riovanes. He killed only for reasons that would benefit him, not for money or for somebody else.

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Quote (ArcKnight5000 @ 2nd June 2005 07:58)

He wasn't really an assasain. If he was, he would have been like the one chick that threw the guy off of Riovanes. He killed only for reasons that would benefit him, not for money or for somebody else.

yes that is true he didnt act like cecilia and lede but u have to take into consideration that he was able to think and plan and had a purpose in life, other than gelwan who was a priest anywayz (no match against a quick sword without a charge time) he stabes everybody when they leat expect it plus

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Cecilia and Lede were ultima demons under the control of the stone and elmdor. They had no human conscience so wouldnt be anything like a thinking and caring assasin whos out to gain power due to his sisters capture and him not being noble enough to do anything about it

ok lots of things to adress here

1) delita WAS stronger than ramza, if the two fought at level 99 with optimum equips and no abilities except for their base classes mastered Delita would own ramza like a little girl wielding nothing more than a sharpened stick.

2) yes delita was crafty, he planned out how to go about achieving his goals, and he only had one: right the wrongs he felt had been done to him.

3) he never changed sides/allegiances - he never had any except to Ovelia and himself

4) he killed Ovelia becuase she tried to kill him. and that was becuase she thought he killed: Orlandu, Olan, Balmafula, and most of all Ramza.

5) in my opinion (which is biased) Delita only killed who he had to, just becuase it was never anyone really strong doesn't mean he couldn't have, him as an arc knight could have beaten orlandu (destroy his sword and he can't use all swordskill) - he wasn't a madman hellbent on destruction of everyone or anything like that, and who said he framed Gelwan? Gelwan just as easily could have been guilty of the crimes he was accused of, noone ever said.

6) and delita is proof of of one of my mottos: Knowledge is Power

how do you think he was able to plan his kinghood? he knew what all sides were doing at all times, he came from the hokuten in the first place, and they are pretty predictable, and if he had questions, he always had ramza. then he went and got in good standing with the church, who placed him in the nanten (and helped him rise in the ranks) as the person who would assassinate Goltana when balk released the poison at bethla. So he knew what the church and the Nanten were doing also. Oh - and one more thing, somehow (never gives background on it) he was in with the shrine knights for a short time at least (b/c he was with Draclau and Vormav when they talked to Ovelia) I jsut wanted to state that. that is one of my favorite sayings.

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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

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3) he never changed sides/allegiances - he never had any except to Ovelia and himself

Wrong. Delita sided with the Hokuten, then Church of Glabados when the need suited him, then flip-flopped to Goltana's side, then finally went public with his own agenda once he had slain Goltana. In both the church and the Nanten institutions, he killed high ranking members (Goltana and Zalmo). He used whatever group of idealists could help him the most, then moved on once he had fulfilled his own needs through them.

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2) yes delita was crafty, he planned out how to go about achieving his goals, and he only had one: right the wrongs he felt had been done to him.

No, his goal was not justice. It was revenge. He clearly states this again and again, saying that once his goals are accomplished, he will be the one doing the using from now on rather than being used.

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5) in my opinion (which is biased) Delita only killed who he had to, just becuase it was never anyone really strong doesn't mean he couldn't have, him as an arc knight could have beaten orlandu (destroy his sword and he can't use all swordskill) - he wasn't a madman hellbent on destruction of everyone or anything like that, and who said he framed Gelwan? Gelwan just as easily could have been guilty of the crimes he was accused of, noone ever said

Agreed that he only killed who he had to. He was a calculating bastard, I'll give him that.

As an Arc Knight, he could *not* beat Orlandu. Orlandu's original equipment includes the Excaliber, which gives him haste status. Thus, Delita's sword is getting shattered 2 turns before he even gets into motion.

Concerning Gelwan, while there is no definitive proof.... It is consistent with Delita's thought process and actions that he framed Gelwan to promote himself in Goltana's eyes.

Concerning the Shrine Knights, I believe you are wrong. Delita operated within the church, and thus could be attached with the Shrine Knights (the "special forces, if you will, of the church) or any other group within it. He was not part of the zodiac stone scheme in any way, so I don't see how the conclusion can be drawn that he was "in on it" with the Shrine Knights based on just one short appearance with them in the game.






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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

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1) delita WAS stronger than ramza, if the two fought at level 99 with optimum equips and no abilities except for their base classes mastered Delita would own ramza like a little girl wielding nothing more than a sharpened stick.

Well, actually, since Delita's Squire class only learns Wish aside from the normal ability set, and since Ramza learns much more than that (Yell, Cheer Up, Scream), I'd have to give the advantage to Ramza. Not to mention the fact that Ramza's Squire class can equip many, many different type of weapons other than the normal "sword" type, which means with "optimium equips", Ramza could have Chaos Blade, so that's an immense advantage right there.

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2) yes delita was crafty, he planned out how to go about achieving his goals, and he only had one: right the wrongs he felt had been done to him.

This is true. He did fight to right the wrongs that he felt had been done to him.

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3) he never changed sides/allegiances - he never had any except to Ovelia and himself

Now, I may be totally wrong about this, so bear with me: The way I see it, how much loyalty could he possibly have had for Ovelia if he didn't even tell her about the "fake murders"? In my oppinion, he only cared about himself, and not Ovelia.

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4) he killed Ovelia becuase she tried to kill him. and that was becuase she thought he killed: Orlandu, Olan, Balmafula, and most of all Ramza.

See #3

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(From #5) him as an arc knight could have beaten orlandu (destroy his sword and he can't use all swordskill)

Erm...Arc Knights can't destroy equipment...The Destroy Sword skillset is like the ability-lowering moves that the Knight learns (Power Break, Speed Break, Magic Break, etc.), but they hit an area. It's pretty obvious that, with his sword, Orlandu would utterly destroy Delita with a combination of his massive strength and insane cheapness.

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(Also from #5)and who said he framed Gelwan? Gelwan just as easily could have been guilty of the crimes he was accused of, noone ever said.

You're right; no one actually came out and said that he framed Gelwan, but it is kind of assumed. I suppose it's kind of stupid just to assume that Delita framed him, but you have to admit, it wouldn't be beyond him to do something like that.

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6) and delita is proof of of one of my mottos: Knowledge is Power

He was a crafty one, alright

This post has been edited by Random Person on 22nd June 2005 12:15

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~ Aurora, exhale bloody air! Dark Holy! ~

Quote (Random Person @ 22nd June 2005 07:14)

1) Well, actually, since Delita's Squire class only learns Wish aside from the normal ability set, and since Ramza learns much more than that (Yell, Cheer Up, Scream), I'd have to give the advantage to Ramza. Not to mention the fact that Ramza's Squire class can equip many, many different type of weapons other than the normal "sword" type, which means with "optimium equips", Ramza could have Chaos Blade, so that's an immense advantage right there.

2) Now, I may be totally wrong about this, so bear with me: The way I see it, how much loyalty could he possibly have had for Ovelia if he didn't even tell her about the "fake murders"? In my oppinion, he only cared about himself, and not Ovelia.

3) Erm...Arc Knights can't destroy equipment...The Destroy Sword skillset is like the ability-lowering moves that the Knight learns (Power Break, Speed Break, Magic Break, etc.), but they hit an area. It's pretty obvious that, with his sword, Orlandu would utterly destroy Delita with a combination of his massive strength and insane cheapness.

1) delita's holy knight class? could easily annihilate ramza, he could just use holy explosion to keep his distance to prevent the chaos blade from making a difference. and as an arc knight- he could just destroy it.

2) I suppose I see that point of view- but he didn't tell her becuase he didn't want her to know of his betrayals, and it was probably better for things if she didn't know about it. that way olan etc, could live the rest of their lives in peace. (like I said, I'm biased)

3) all the arc knights have different job commands (I know this through the use of the wonderful gameshark) Zalbag has a destroy sword, which destroys enemy parameters, Elmdor has draw out as his command (the same as the samurai), and Delita's is mighty sword.

- you can search for this- I am 100% right on this one - not to be arrogant or anything, I jsut am. - so like I said, he could just eliminate the sword. and all-swordskill.



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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

Quote (KingDelita @ 22nd June 2005 01:47)

1) delita WAS stronger than ramza, if the two fought at level 99 with optimum equips and no abilities except for their base classes mastered Delita would own ramza like a little girl wielding nothing more than a sharpened stick.

1) Technically Ramza could scream over and over and then noone could beat him.

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2) yes delita was crafty, he planned out how to go about achieving his goals, and he only had one: right the wrongs he felt had been done to him.

2) I agree, Delita was exceedingly crafty, he planned and executed his rise to power quite magnificently.

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3) he never changed sides/allegiances - he never had any except to Ovelia and himself

3) I agree with you here to. I really believe he didn't mean to kill Ovelia, but he was quite filled with Rage when she stabbed him. BUT. He does at the very least appear to change sides. He starts out working for Goltana, although he is actually sided with the Shrine Knights.

4) See 3

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5) in my opinion (which is biased) Delita only killed who he had to, just becuase it was never anyone really strong doesn't mean he couldn't have, him as an arc knight could have beaten orlandu (destroy his sword and he can't use all swordskill) - he wasn't a madman hellbent on destruction of everyone or anything like that, and who said he framed Gelwan? Gelwan just as easily could have been guilty of the crimes he was accused of, noone ever said. 

5) I don't think he could have beaten Orlandu, Orlandu was supposedly the greatest fighter in the world, on par w/ Ramza's father. As far as the Gelwan framing goes...

It's very easy to think that Gelwan was framed, as Delita accomplishes a different duplicitous manuever at the same time: Convincing Goltana that he worked as a knight under Baron Grims.

The evidence that Gelwan wasn't framed is the fact that it is Gelwan who steps forward (quite nervously) to say that noone betrayed Goltana before anyone is named.

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1) ramza wouldn't live long enough for the stats to stack up enough - face it - DELITA would whoop him. And Delita's arc knight class can equip knight swords, so go ahead and give him the chaos blade, escutcheon 2, grand helm, maximillian armor, and let's be nice and say a feather mantle (or bracer - but the latter would make it too easy) and give ramza the same equips - make them both level 99 and watch as Delita butchers him. there's no argument here.

2) yeah, we all agree that delita was crafty - you'd have to be to do what he did.

5) he still could have, all he has to do is use hellcry punch and orlandu is stripped of his thunder 'GOD' status.

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5) he still could have, all he has to do is use hellcry punch and orlandu is stripped of his thunder 'GOD' status.

One word: Maintenance

And in reference to the Ramza/Delita fight, since Delita changes jobs a couple of time through out the game, i think it's a fair argument that Arc Knight is not actually his base class, since he gets that all the way in chapter 4 (as opposed to he and Ramza both starting with Squire in chapter 1).

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~ Aurora, exhale bloody air! Dark Holy! ~

Delita wasnt an assassin he was just a badass that knew what he was doing. He went out to prove he was not a commoner after teta died at fort zekeden. Delita got his revenge in a big way and could whoop anyones ass.

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"Algus! You killed Teta! I'll kill you! I swear it! - Delita Hyral

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Quote (Random Person @ 23rd June 2005 15:08)

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5) he still could have, all he has to do is use hellcry punch and orlandu is stripped of his thunder 'GOD' status.

One word: Maintenance

And in reference to the Ramza/Delita fight, since Delita changes jobs a couple of time through out the game, i think it's a fair argument that Arc Knight is not actually his base class, since he gets that all the way in chapter 4 (as opposed to he and Ramza both starting with Squire in chapter 1).

as for your one word- I said strip them down to everything but their base class mastered (that means no other abilities) and optimum equips. and delita beats orlandu - as a holy knight orlandu wins.

and delita would beat ramza as a holy knight as well, like I said stripped down to everything but their base class mastered (and in ch's 2&3 ramza doesn't have scream) and optimum equips delita would rape ramza. i'm sorry but I'm right.

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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

Quote (KingDelita @ 23rd June 2005 22:48)

i'm sorry but I'm right.

And here's what got the topic closed. Bickering about something totally unprovable, and asserting proof by using a different set of assumptions.

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