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.."Will seathe his sword", what's the deal with this?.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

I always beated dark Cecil by physical strengh, an always have this doubt: what's the meaning on what Dark Cecil is saying?,

I unequiped my sword during the fight, but nothing happens, I have this doubt because I found very difficult this fight..ñ_ñ

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

I'm not positive, but I'm quite sure that if you just stand there and don't actually attack Dark Knight Cecil, then the battle will automatically end. I have never tried this myself, but I do remember hearing it in a certain thread here before.

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Is PJ

This is true. Sheathe your sword basically means don't attack Dark cecil, just parry, after two or three rounds, you automatically win. I didn't think it was possible to win by brute force! Apparently you didn't learn your lesson.

This post has been edited by Bulbonius on 6th June 2005 23:46

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Quote (Bulbonius @ 6th June 2005 18:44)

This is true. Sheathe your sword basically means don't attack Dark cecil, just parry, after two or three rounds, you automatically win. I didn't think it was possible to win by brute force!

I didn't know there was a way to win BESIDES brute force.

The first time I played the game I kept getting killed by him. I even think I did stop fighting, and healed, when that line came up. But then I died anyway! So then I just leveled up and pounded him, and every other time I played the game I was at a high enough level that I could attack him until he died.

Gotta say, now that I know, I still prefer the old fashioned way. Reminds me of when I first fought Link's Shadow in OOT. It would've been much easier if I knew about the targeting trick, but not knowing the trick made victory that much sweeter.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 6th June 2005 21:05)

The first time I played the game I kept getting killed by him. I even think I did stop fighting, and healed, when that line came up. But then I died anyway! So then I just leveled up and pounded him, and every other time I played the game I was at a high enough level that I could attack him until he died.

Are we all talking about the battle between Paladin Cecil and Dark Knight Cecil on top of Mt. Ordeals? Because you can't level up after he becomes a Paladin until after the fight is long over.

Been a while since I attacked during that battle, but isn't there a message that pops up every time you attack him?

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Quote (Dark Paladin @ 6th June 2005 20:49)

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 6th June 2005 21:05)

The first time I played the game I kept getting killed by him.  I even think I did stop fighting, and healed, when that line came up.  But then I died anyway!  So then I just leveled up and pounded him, and every other time I played the game I was at a high enough level that I could attack him until he died.

Are we all talking about the battle between Paladin Cecil and Dark Knight Cecil on top of Mt. Ordeals? Because you can't level up after he becomes a Paladin until after the fight is long over.

Hmm...you mean his base stats as a Paladin are the same no matter what your level as a Dark Knight?

If that's the case, then maybe I'm wrong. I beat him by pounding him, though. Maybe using "fight" without stopping to heal was the technique that beat him.

When you attack him, the game prompts you to stop attacking him, thus I've always just parried and won that way. However, recently I was playing a high levelled game and decided to take a few whacks at him and won that way, which I never knew was possible.

I'm amazed so many people didn't know you could just wait out the fight, that makes the game a LOT harder...

And yes, Paladin stats are the same regardless of your DK level, so it's best just to get to that point of the game quick and spend time levelling later.

This post has been edited by imperialstooge on 7th June 2005 03:09

Quote (imperialstooge @ 6th June 2005 22:08)

However, recently I was playing a high levelled game and decided to take a few whacks at him and won that way, which I never knew was possible.

Nevermind the fact you become a level 1 paladin when you fight him.

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Quote (imperialstooge @ 6th June 2005 22:08)

However, recently I was playing a high levelled game and decided to take a few whacks at him and won that way, which I never knew was possible.

...

And yes, Paladin stats are the same regardless of your DK level, so it's best just to get to that point of the game quick and spend time levelling later.

I think you're suffering from the same memory lapse as me. If Paladin level is not affected by leveling up as a DK, then how did your high level game make it easier to kill him? Just thought I'd bring that to your attention a little less bluntly than Silverlance.

I'm pretty sure Dark Paladin is right. After he mentioned it, I remembered Paladin Cecil starting at lvl 1 after he joins your party. And while I was typing this up, Silverlance confirmed that this is the case for the Dark Knight battle too. But I'm pretty sure it's possible to beat Dark Knight Cecil by fighting him. Other people making the same claim helps increase my confidence that this isn't another case of me hallucinating past video game accomplishments.

I really wish I remembered the technique I used to beat him, but we're talking back in the early-mid 90s, and I'm afraid I didn't memorize my video game strategies from back then.

I thought it was near impossible for DK Cecil to kill Paladin Cecil if you keep defending. Every time I've done it, the battle ends 'round the time Cecil's HP drops to critical. And that's nixing any attempted healing.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

WOW!, I always beated him, I tried to parry his attacks, yes, even to unequip the sword..but after receiving his attacks, I keep fighting. I played the Playstation version, maybe he is more easy to defeat than the original version. But damn, he got a lot of HP, very hard to beat...but not impossible..that's why I have this doubt all these years, I think this battle was supposed to be like that!, OK thanks boys and girls.

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

Quote (Silverlance @ 6th June 2005 22:15)

Nevermind the fact you become a level 1 paladin when you fight him.

Yeah, might have overlooked that fact. Ahem... It was during an overlevelled game though, so I was only about 99% wrong.

Anyway, in summation, it IS IMPOSSIBLE to lose the battle if all you do is parry. He'll get about 3 licks in and then text pops up and the battle ends. It's just like the battle vs. the Mimic in FF5 where you have to "do what he does". It's programmed to be done a certain way, yet, you can do it the other way, which is more fun I think.

This post has been edited by imperialstooge on 8th June 2005 06:12

I didn't think it was possible to beat the Dark Knight image by just random slaugter, I thought it was like the battle with a certain party member(s).

I just healed.

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Could you repeat that?

(Edited the first part: dumb question regarding GreenMagi's post)

And yes, you can beat him by just whacking away, but you will have to heal yourself at least once (I did, unless you get a crit perhaps). The programmers want you to just chill and not attack, since it reinforces the noble image of the paladin as well as Cecil fully overcoming his past. Therefore, it makes me wonder why they prgram the DK to be beatable in the first place, since it goes against the premise of the whole situation....

Just for info:

Dark Knight
HP 1000
Exp 0
Gold 0

Since you have only 600 HP, and his attack at least matches (and I think does more damge than) yours, you will need to use some Cure2s when you get low on HP.

Yet another reason why the FF series is so great, you find something new alomst evey time you play a game. I played 4 for almost 10 years before I knew you could beat him.

This post has been edited by imperialstooge on 8th June 2005 06:14

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

To Be a true Paladin you must not fight now

That is the message it displays when ever you strike Dark Knight. Everytime I play FF4 I discover some part of the story I ignored that floods back into me so I find it bittersweet. Thats a great thing about FF4.

This post has been edited by Duo_Dragoon on 8th June 2005 23:35

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I swear I have got both messages to fight, and to sheath my sword playing through... I know for a fact I have beat DK Cecil both ways... I usually don't pay attention to the message though.

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"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

in the PSX version, Cecil has the Dark ability, when he uses it, he losses about 1/8th of his HP, or something like that, and Dark is all he does when you fight him as a Paladin, so, after 8 turns, he'll die whether you attack him or not. It doesn't matter whichever way he dies; he'll die unless you just sit back and let him butcher you.

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in the PSX version, Cecil has the Dark ability, when he uses it, he losses about 1/8th of his HP, or something like that, and Dark is all he does when you fight him as a Paladin, so, after 8 turns, he'll die whether you attack him or not. It doesn't matter whichever way he dies; he'll die unless you just sit back and let him butcher you.

Are you possitive sure about that?, or just guessing...It takes more than 8 turns to defeat him. I'm sure he doesn't lose HP that way.

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

I've beaten him both ways multiple times but never very consistantly. The Dark Knight usually kills me four or five times before I'm allowed to even get past that point in the game. I'm really not certain as to what triggers that battle to end. I think it is easier to play defensivly though. As a side note, I think it unfair that I be attacked every turn with an ability I never even had. . . .

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Role reversal at its finest.

Again, the battle ALWAYS ends after three turns of defense, it is impossible to lose if you do not attack him. If you attack, he has 1000 HP, you have 600, and he deals more damage, so you'll have to use a Cure2 (or 2.)

Well, I've only played the PSX version through once, and it was while ago, but I remember just defending until he died on his own. It seems like things tend to vary from game to game, or maybe people are playing the cartriodge, emulators, or the disc. Oh well.

And, as to 8 turns, I'm assuming there, since, i think Dark used 1/8th of his HP.

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Quote

Well, I've only played the PSX version through once, and it was while ago, but I remember just defending until he died on his own. It seems like things tend to vary from game to game, or maybe people are playing the cartriodge, emulators, or the disc. Oh well.

And, as to 8 turns, I'm assuming there, since, i think Dark used 1/8th of his HP.

Uh huh, I also got the PSX version , but I'm sure that the Dark Cecil doesn't reduce his HP when he does an attack ( because its not controlled by you, besides if that technique really damaged him, white numbers displaying damage should appear, well it doesn't matter that much... so the Dark Knight Cecil got 1000 HP?, I feel like he got more... .

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

Meh. Whatever; all that matters is he dies somehow. As I said before, whether you let him die, or beat him up, he dies either way.

And, I don't think white numbers display when Cecil uses Dark, but, as I said, it's been awhile.

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Please post in our forums; we are in need of help and input as we develop the Final Fantasy VI Prequel.

You're right; Dark Wave doesn't display white numbers to show HP loss.

Dunno 'bout the PSX version, but in FFIVj I'm pretty positive DK Cecil never had eight turns and thus couldn't drain his own HP with Dark Wave. I'd have to go with what imperialstooge said: Apparently the battle's scripted so you automatically win if you don't attack (which I believe has always happened with me), but if you waste a turn by attacking, and DK Cecil counters (and he will), you risk extending the battle, losing more HP than necessary and getting killed.

Not saying I know for sure what I'm talking about...but meh.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

I always casted "Cure" on myself during the battle and let the D. Knight drain his own HP by using "Dark Wave" over and over. The battle would be over in a minute.

I suppose that this is a test for Cecil. "Sheathing the sword" = the Paladin way. While a Dark Knight, Cecil would slaughter, but as a Paladin, he's supposed to defend/protect.

Bloody Amazing. My whole life I always thought you just waited and then he stopped and I won. The "Brute Force" way wasn't even a though going through my mind. I just assumed you had to parry until you won.

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Same thing as casting "cure" only while using "parry" you're taking less damage.

Quote (imperialstooge @ 8th June 2005 17:03)

Just for info:

Dark Knight
HP 1000
Exp 0
Gold 0

Actually;

DRK: 4520 HP

You can attack him once, to begin the prompting of "a true Paladin" but I like to buy about 99 HiPotion and slaughter the DRK down to his last digit of HP. But ofcourse this figure of HP is subject to edit in FF Chroncles and FF Anthology [Euro] .. but eh, just so you know.

Unless that 1000 was from Final Fantasy II (initial release in the US)?

According to the second edition of Ben Siron's FF2 Handbook, the 'D.KNIGHT' enemy has 1000 HP and "die[s] on his own after a preset time if you don't attack him".

www.ffonline.com/media/guides/ff4/ff4-handbook.txt is the link in case you want to check.

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Oh, he got 4520 HP?, well that will explain why always take me so long to defeat him, ( Brute force was the only way that I thought it was possible, until now..), maybe he lose HP when he does a Darkside attack...if he got that much of HP, of course.

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"