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Look what this topic has done:

[12:22] <karasuman> Sabs, I have a very important question for you. I need you to answer honestly.
[12:22] <karasuman> Are you gay?
[12:22] <Sabin> Damn Djibriel and that Sabin Thesis topic.

So I have finally decided to have some input on the character to whom I took my nick...


1) You guys have way too much time on your hands if you're putting thought into this.

2) Does it really matter in the first place?

3) No, I am not gay.

4) Nor is my namesake.

5) I like rice.

This post has been edited by Sabin on 18th May 2005 16:34

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

[/QUOTE]

Quote

1) You guys have way too much time on your hands if you're putting thought into this.

And proud of it

Quote

2) Does it really matter in the first place?

It does to some people.

Quote

3) No, I am not gay.

No one said you were.

Quote

4) Nor is my namesake.

No one has been able to prove or disprove this fact yet.

Quote

5) I like rice.

That's nice

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~ Aurora, exhale bloody air! Dark Holy! ~

Quote (karasuman @ 18th May 2005 11:13)

So we've moved from the original pointless topic to a new pointless topic? Or am I missing the connection between Sabin's sexual preference and whether or not he has facial hair?

In case you havent been reading, at the beginning they were talking about how a bear is a big hairy gay man. Then we started talking about how Sabin was originally created with facial hair which thefore proves one of the points about him being hairy and fits better into the category of bear, which was one of the original statements. If others got confused with why we were talking about the facial hair then I hope this clears it up a bit.

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Ok, i know its spelled Sabin, get over it!

Perhaps, when thinking of these dillemas, we have to stop and consider who made the game. Programmers, for the most part, are just ordinary, occasionaly lazy (Aren't we all a little?) human beings, trying to get their job done, Not infininely witty and secretive folk who would devote hours of their time trying to allude to something that really makes no difference plotwise. I'm not trying to bash programmers or any game staff, I'm just saying you have to look at this sort of thing criticaly.

The Bear Issue: The use of Bear as a reference for a gay hairy guy seems a little obscure for me. Sabin is large, and fights with claws. What kind of animal comes to mind? I dunno about you, but where I live, bear has no connections to being gay. It's simply synonomous with burly, or large men.

The House: A kettle, cupboard and a bouquet of flowers are items all used many times in FFVI as insignificant props. What I mean by this is that it was easy to stick them in the house and add a few notes of diolouge. I doubt they'd bother to make a new item, like oh, let's say, a punching bag, just to give the player the option to go up and have Edgar say "This was his favorate punching bag." Also, if they're trying to get any mood across with the cabin scene, it's to show that Sabin enjoys a quiet, peaceful lifestyle.

The Makeover: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but there are a total of four people you absolutely need to pick up after the WOR. Celes, Edgar, Setzer and Sabin. Thus, it makes sense for the initiator of this scene should be one of these four people. Setzer and Edgar have no deep connections to Gau, so scratch them. Celes is a woman, and therefore steryotypicaly expected to be all "Yay shopping" but everyone knows this is hardly Celes' personality. She also has no deep connections to Gau. Sabin however, was the first to meet Gau, and has had numerous scenes with him as well, where they seem to forge a brotherly relationship. This makes him the best candidate for initiating this scene. Besides, it doens't take a gay man to see that Gau is harly a presentable person.

No Flirting: There is already relationships abound in the game. Consider, if you will though, that most of the relationships are used as a plot device, or help add to a charecter's personality. Sabin having a relationship would hardly add to his personality or enhance the plot. In fact, it would likely hinder it. And thought here are NPCs everywhere that are flirt worthy, the programmers likely weren't keen on making a special scene to show Sabin trying a few moves. It's unnecisary. Besides, using the logic that no flirting = gay, one could assume that Sephiroth is gay because he never oggles Tifa or something.

Just my thoughts on the matter

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TURKEY! - (The only way not to get blocked for using Fowl Language)

Quote (Ultros: Octopus Royalty @ 19th May 2005 21:43)

The Makeover: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but there are a total of four people you absolutely need to pick up after the WOR. Celes, Edgar, Setzer and Sabin.

Hmm, wrong. Sabin is actually optional. You can go straight to Figaro, grab Edgar, then Setzer, and head off to Kefka. You only need 3 characters to tackle the last dungeon. The ending changes somewhat, such as the beam scene: the three characters struggle to slowly slide it out of the way after it barely misses Edgar (IIRC).

People just pick him up because it's so easy and pretty much right in the way of things. He has different dialog if you pick up Edgar first, too.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

The "proofs" for Sabin being gay involves so much over-reaching, every single one of y'all hopped the fence.

"Bear" is a tremendously obscure term for being gay. Most of the people here have probably never heard of it being a word for gay until this thread was opened. Obscure or not, it would only work if the game was made by English-speaking game designers.

The Fire Dance thing is just downright stupid. If that's anything close to a reason, you'd better be prepared to say the Human Torch, Firestorm, Firebrand, Fire, and the other two dozen fire-based superheroes are also gay. Heck, you might even have to go as far and say Superman and Darkseid are that way, too.

Alot of these arguements come from trying to pull stereotypes out of the game. We are forgetting the most important one - Sabin is arguably the best fighter in the game. Gay men (especially the most muscular) are stereotypically sissies.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

This can be a big secret, who knows...the only way to know it for sure is playing the game in Japanese, because in the translations always are censured or modified beastly, it Sabin were actually gay, some scenes had been eliminated or modified , as well some dialogues had been " smoothed"...well the censorship is a delicate subject, but a horrible one too, c'mon...nobody decide for me what can I see and what not...hopefully mankind will evolve for good and see this as something inexcusable, like the Holy Inquisition..but who knows, I had to see censured animes like YuGiOh!, and when I found the truth behind it, I felt as an idiot, ....but we are not here to discuss censorship, but Sabin's kicking side.. I didn't knew "Bear" was a word used un gay community, far I knew it was used for refering a big, strong man...not neccesarilly gay (I'm a foreigner so I'm not that familiarized with some words..sorry), so this for me is not enough evidence, c'mon I for once wouldn't say a bunch of strangers that I'm a "Bear"..even if I was one. Because he don't flirt doesn't mean he is gay (or heterosexual...) just he don't like it...like me, I don't ussually flirt and that don't mean I'm gay...(or heterosexual...), and his house? I'll ckeck that today...maybe Sabin's fate was to be a "happy" boy , ..Djibriel is sagacious if he analyze every detail in the game like that...not a boy with a dirty mind

This post has been edited by Moglv99 on 21st May 2005 22:12

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"Its no cheating if you don't get caught"

.............wow.
Those are some.........interesting points. Like many people have already said, there's really nothing that points to him being straight, even all the evidence pointing to him being gay is a bit circumstancial. I liked the point about him being a foil to Edgar's womanizing personality, though.
Still, I'd MUCH rather read evidence pointing to Terra and Celes being "that way" . *Prepares to be burnt and frozen to death.*

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Mercy?! I am the sixth phase of your world's destruction! would you like some evil pie?

My name is Fox, I am infinitely great, and I am the author of this comic strip..

Quote (Fox @ 21st May 2005 14:07)

Still, I'd MUCH rather read evidence pointing to Terra and Celes being "that way" . *Prepares to be burnt and frozen to death.*

Can we please close this thread? Please? Someone?

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote

Can we please close this thread? Please? Someone?

You've made it clear you really don't like this topic, but I had hoped this topic would last without pointless posts about Terra = lsebian!1 and reactions to it. Spam is against forum rules, and if you want the topic closed and think you have a good reason, I'm sure everybody is better off if you just PM me or a moderator.

Quote

"Bear" is a tremendously obscure term for being gay.

Yes, but it is a word used BY gay people, which gives it much more importance as Sabin self-applies the word.
And like Imzogelmo, I say that cultural differences are big enough to disregard the Japanese version to point out that Terra used it first.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

That part was a joke. Also, If you even read the rest of my post, you'd know I was saying that there is very little in-game evidence to disprove the whole Sabin thing.
Also, how jokingly saying I wish Terra and Celes would get together worse than accussing Relm of bestiality?

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Mercy?! I am the sixth phase of your world's destruction! would you like some evil pie?

My name is Fox, I am infinitely great, and I am the author of this comic strip..

To Relm, there is hinting

Also, there's very little interaction between Terra and Celes, and even less that would point to their lesbian romance...

And no, Sabin is NOT gay.

I can't vouch for Relm though.

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (Moglv99 @ 20th May 2005 19:36)

This can be a big secret, who knows...the only way to know it for sure is playing the game in Japanese

I've actually played the game in Japanese,
and in the Japanese version, Sabin actually never refers to himself as a "bear", but instead it's actually Terra who calls him that.

(after beating Vargas) when Terra finds out that Sabin's actually Edgar's younger brother, she says "I thought he was some bear" (as opposed to the English "i thought he was a bodybuilder").
Then later when Sabin offers to join, he says "Think my blitz could help you in your fight?" (as opposed to "think a 'bear' like me...")


And just another scene...

In Sabin/Gau/Cyan's scenereo, in Nikeah's tavern when some woman tries to seduce Cyan and he freaks out (i love that part), originally Cyan asks Sabin something along the lines of "you're OK with something like this!?" and Sabin laughs and responds with "well I have learned to control myself in my training" or something similar (it's been a while since I've played it...).
Hmm so perhaps that part shows that he is infact attracted to women, just that he doesn't show it?


Sorry this kinda got long :0

(PS- some REALLY good analyzation throughout this thread! It was very interesting and amusing! LMFAO@"bum rush")

Far from me to renew this argument, but here's SkyRender's translation of the dancer scene. Emphasis mine.

---------------

Loose Girl
"Hey, pops. Care to have some fun with me? Come on!"

Cayenne
"W,w,w,w,w,why you slut! Get your hands off of me!"

Loose Girl
"Stop being so stiff. You'll enjoy it. Promise, boyfriend."

Cayenne
"B,b,b,b,b,boyfriend?!"

Sabin
"Cayenne, buddy, don't let it bug you."

Cayenne
"H, how can you be so calm?"

Sabin
"I deal with this sort of thing all the time. I happen to know quite a bit on the subject of women."

Loose Girl
"Don't be tight-lipped. Hehe..."

Cayenne
"D, damn. Listen. There is a thing we call "decency". You should be more modest, so you don't embarrass yourself. And furthermore... And... And then, too..."

Loose Girl
"Yeah, yeah."

----------------------

Nekki said that the Jap version was "well I have learned to control myself in my training"... at any rate, neither of these support a gay Sabin.

This post has been edited by manapriestess on 27th May 2005 21:53

I believe Sabin is asexual and reproduces through cellular division when he has attained enough muscle mass.

It'd be interesting to see the full japanese script, as opposed to the watered down Woosley translation. I'd hardly be surprised to find more evidence supporting Terra and Celes' relationship, Relm and Interceptor's special friendship, and of course, Sabin's same-sex tendencies.

Edit: Found this interesting tidbit...

Relm
"What!? You jackass!"
Mash
"Ha! This kid's got a foul mouth. My kind of kid."

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 27th May 2005 22:50

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Silverlance @ 27th May 2005 14:32)

I believe Sabin is asexual and reproduces through cellular division when he has attained enough muscle mass.

Much like Red XIII, eh?

Oh, no. If there is a "Nanaki Thesis" now, I'm gonna start punching people in the throat.

But I must apologize. I assumed that sensationalism was the driving force here, that the novelty of this was it's only value. But there seems to be genuine debate and analysis.

Here's my bit: many people mentioned the fact that he had lived in an all male environment for a long time. I think this explains why he is reluctant to pursue women: he's not comfortable yet even being around them again. While you do hear stories about sailors on ships getting desperate and turning to homosexuality, but that's actually not all that common. An all male environment need not breed homosexuality, but instead some very close bonds that can occasionally be mistaken. I myself have been amongst almost entirely males since I first enlisted two years ago, and I'm certainly not gay; but I do have a deep trust, brotherhood, with some of my fellows, while developing some odd characteristics (like an affinity for the Pirates of Penzance).
To summarize: all male environments do not encourage or foster homosexuality.

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M777: lightweight 155mm howitzer
3/11 rules over all artillery!

Quote (bahamut0013 @ 27th May 2005 22:58)

To summarize: all male environments do not encourage or foster homosexuality.

I think that we should steer you gently in the direction of some Lord of the Rings thread. Or in fact, any Lord of the Rings thread.

However, I repeat my assertion: I personally never thought that Sabin lived in complete isolation. I'm certain that he visited South Figaro from times to times. I mean, South Figaro is what? Twenty game steps away from his cabin? Sabin can cover that easily, what's with his buff sprite and all. I’m sure that he covered that distance occasionally to visit one of those cute blond girls in the red dresses.

In fact, it may be that he went through more women than Edgar ever did. Those girls all look alike and it’s very likely that he sometimes got them confused. Like this:

SABIN: Wait… so you’re Maureen? Not Doreen?
GIRL: (stamping her foot) NO! Doreen is the one who skulks in the north side of town! I’m the one in the south-east!
SABIN: And, uh… what about Karin?
GIRL: Karin is the one in the central court! Get your directions straight already!
SABIN: Honestly! You girls should start changing dress color every once in a while. It’s just too confusing.

NEW ADDITION:

The following skit is dedicated to Djibriel. Because if Final Fantasy 6 was ever this clear, this thread would not have existed.

After the group exits Sabin’s cabin.

LOCKE: Edgar… can I ask you something?
EDGAR: What is it?
LOCKE: Well, about those favorite dishes of Sabin’s…
EDGAR: What about them?
LOCKE: They were… lilac-tinted.
LOCKE: And painted with
LOCKE: periwinkles.
LOCKE: . . .
TERRA: ?
EDGAR: Oh, that! Ha ha. The dishes belonged to my mother. Sabin always had a sentimental attachment to such memorabilia, because she died giving birth to him.
LOCKE: Oh… oh. I see. They were your mother’s, then. That explains it. (Phew!)
EDGAR: Oh, yes. Such a soft-hearted man, my brother…
EDGAR: While I was out there flirting with the girls and raising a racket about the town, he was inside practicing weight-lifting, singing in the choir and taking ballet lessons and flower-arrangement classes...
EDGAR: Ah. Memories, memories.
TERRA: …
LOCKE: ………….



This post has been edited by manapriestess on 28th May 2005 21:22

I was tempted to make a similar "skit" for this thread a while back based around the scene where Terra awkwardly asked Celes about love and Celes' confused reaction, but I don't have the testosterone levels to pull that off right.

Quote (Silverlance)

I believe Sabin is asexual and reproduces through cellular division when he has attained enough muscle mass.

While I agree 'bout his asexuality (duh), I dunno if reproduction is a good idea in his case. Given the nearly eleven years it's been since the game came out, his shoulders are probably up to his forehead by now. In just two more years I imagine he'll appear along the same lines as mutated Hesh from the Sealab: 2021 episode "The Legend of Baggy Pants". Only three times the size. Plus, the steroids he most certainly takes might not be good for his cellular "children." I suppose it's a good thing he's a martial artist and not a baseball player - ZING!

Seriously, though. I still stand by my opinion that Edgar's fascination with Sabin's effeminate decor is more unusual than Sabin even having it. For all we know, Sabin might not even know how to use a plate - he just thinks they make really nifty wall-hangings. And he's accustomed to eating off the floor 'cause he's just that hardcore. Or something.

...And the his favorite flowers are such 'cause they're potent enough to cover up the usual scent of hard liquor.

--------------------

Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

ye gods. I have been away for far too long, what with my comp packing in and all. Djibriel, you shall be sued for damages to my mind this thread has caused me. Or maybe not, but the fact still stands, you have one great mind to think this up.

--------------------

"Fire and steel
follow me through the lands
you will burn hordes of hell
in the deadly raging flames of revenge"

Rhapsody - Flames of Revenge

Quote (SilverFork @ 29th May 2005 06:31)

For all we know, Sabin might not even know how to use a plate - he just thinks they make really nifty wall-hangings. And he's accustomed to eating off the floor 'cause he's just that hardcore. Or something.

...And the his favorite flowers are such 'cause they're potent enough to cover up the usual scent of hard liquor.

That might be pretty much the point. Aesthetics (or whatever the word was) doesn't have to go with being refined or gay. He just likes how the plates look (there was no close up, maybe they're plates with paintings of naked chicks?) how the flowers/look smell (herb?) and how the tea tastes (oh, come on, since when liking tea was gay? Are the British gay?) since when was some taste for such things gay?

Wait, Sabin DOES know how to use a plate (phantom train scene). 'Nuff said.

And I even think Sabin doesn't usually eat from the floor - he probably takes raw bites out of his prey while it's still alive and kicking. He's hardcore enough for that.

Quote (Silverlance)

I believe Sabin is asexual and reproduces through cellular division when he has attained enough muscle mass.

We'll have to ask Sabin himself about this PARTICULAR point.

P.S. I think the people responsible for the localization MIGHT have made those gay-hints on purpose to appear politically correct. Blah.

P.P.S. <Sabin is not gay.)

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Some of them are.

I don't want to say dishes, flowers, tea, etcetera make you gay. I use dishes, drink tea, you name it. My point is, a video game allows room for very little dialogue, and a game with fourteen characters even more so. That's why it's odd that in the small amount of dialogue (as in: compared to every other story-telling media), Sabin is shown with so many of rather stereotypical interests/character traits as he is.

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 29th May 2005 09:34

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Quote (bahamut0013 @ 27th May 2005 22:58)

Quote (Silverlance @ 27th May 2005 14:32)

I believe Sabin is asexual and reproduces through cellular division when he has attained enough muscle mass.

Much like Red XIII, eh?

Beat me to it.

I find the original Japanese text interesting. So either he's a womanizer like his brother or he resists because of his training. I'm leaning towards the latter. Either way, I think this is just more evidence of Sabin not being a homosexual.

Quote (Djibriel @ 29th May 2005 04:34)

That's why it's odd that in the small amount of dialogue (as in: compared to every other story-telling media), Sabin is shown with so many of rather stereotypical interests/character traits as he is.

I think it's hardly stereotypical; not nearly as sterotypical as, say, that picture of Elton John. If Sabin looked like that, Djibriel, then I'd be convinced.

Well, I don't think Sabin is gay, but I Do think Kefka is gay. I mean, he wears all this makeup, his outfit is really strange, there are other reasons I have listed, but I'm too lazy to go dig them up.

As for the Relm/interceptor thing, it seems highly likely.

My question is, whoever it was, Why are you reading a Relm/interceptor Fanfic in the first place?

I'll never be able to look at FF6 the same way again.

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Ff7 current game progress:Just finished the underwater reactor, on to rocket town!

Something else to keep in mind here is that Soraya Saga was responsible for the Figaro brothers - she wrote designed their characters and their subplot.

Soraya Saga is a freelance artist and former Square employee who until recently was working on Xenosaga. She is credited on FF6 under the name K(aori) Tanaka. While it's difficult to prove that she's definitely the one behind Edgar and Sabin now that she's taken that data off of her website, there's a lot of fun evidence to I can (and will happily) site.

It is definite that Soraya designed Bart Fatima and crew in Xenogears (under the name Clio Saga), and there are significant parallels between the Figaros and the Fatimas.

Xenogears spoilers:

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Edgar and Sabin - Princely brothers of a desert kingdom.
Bart and Sigurd - Princely (half) brothers of a desert kingdom.

Also, a fun little reference. The Figaro brothers' middle names, Roni and Rene, are reused in Xenogears as the names of two of Bart's ancestors. (And miraculously the English translations of the two games are faithful enough that we can tell. And why the hell don't I know who the translator of Xenogears is?? )

And you can go see Soraya's FF6 10th anniversary pic of Edgar and Mathew (as she asserts his name is) on her site, Fridge.

And what does this have to do with Sabin's sexuality? Soraya Saga likes yaoi. I think she wrote a doujinshi with some Xenogears slash herself. One of the parts of Xenosaga that she had a lot of input in was the U.R.T.V.s, and the opportunities for twincest there are tremendous.

Though muted, Sabin and Edgar have some of that same feel.

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"Cavefish is delicious, but only if cooked."

Oh my Gawd! Are you guys still arguing this?

Come on. Let's all just shake hands and leave Sabin to his hot mansecks.

--------------------

Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Trust me to arrive late...

Very interesting thread, made me laugh. I think that out of all the game's characters, both main and minor, there are at least half a dozen more likely candidates than Sabin.

Off the top of my head...
-Kefka. *Verry effiminate if you think about it*
-Director of the opera house. *probably the most likely out of the entire game*
-Gogo *we dont know what the &*#? he is*
-Mog & Umaro *there's bound to be some kind of power thing involved there*
-Did I mention the opera house guy?
and finally...
-Locke. Women flock around him, he dresses like a hair stylist, and he goes around stealing the pants off of merchants!

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"Nothing exists, but atoms and the void"
-Democritus

Quote (DarthVagrant @ 7th June 2005 04:49)

and he goes around stealing the pants off of merchants!

y'know, I was ALMOST about to agree with you about locke until I saw you wrote this. That is just wrong.

--------------------

"Fire and steel
follow me through the lands
you will burn hordes of hell
in the deadly raging flames of revenge"

Rhapsody - Flames of Revenge

Quote (alphasmart @ 7th June 2005 10:37)

Quote (DarthVagrant @ 7th June 2005 04:49)

and he goes around stealing the pants off of merchants!

y'know, I was ALMOST about to agree with you about locke until I saw you wrote this. That is just wrong.

Actually, I think he does steal their pants. That's why they end up in their "b-day suits."

Quote

...while Strago, that old coot, never really does anything with love, he was originally created to have a wife (who would become a Playable Character, even!).

I've really been wondering who you're talking about here, Djibriel. I'm sure it's obvious, but I can't think of who this might be. And congrats for creating a very interesting and unique topic.

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Cannis Rules: Balance of Power - My favourite Yuri's Revenge Mod

Not only do I belive Sabin is not gay, I believe he hates Gay people as he has a mullet and is obviously a white trash red stater who is only sexually intrested in his guns.


Gimme a break. Reading into it a bit too much you think? It's a game. He never makes mention of being one way or the other directly nor does he ever go after men or women at any point. This topic needs to die like a bad tumor.

--------------------

If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way