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One reason why I do like Djib’s argument, although I don’t quite buy it, is that it’s at least meant to be a “serious” discussion based on some evidence, rather that having the too frequent motive of slashing the character because OMG slash is so hawt!!!! Instead, Djib was discussing some points that struck him as questionable.

Quote (Zephir @ 15th May 2005 17:37)

Plus there was a stigma, so they'd be leary of making him gay anyways.

Actually, wouldn’t they go to the trouble of masking it better back then, and only dropping hints, because of that stigma you mentioned?

I think that it’s more important to look at the MOTIVES of the creators to create homosexual characters. Why would they want to make character X a covert homosexual? How does it add to the story? Is their motive:

1) They just wanted to throw in a gay character for the heck of it (or maybe because it was not allowed). In this case, you can definitely go through any game and find clues in everything to your satisfaction. But it’s usually less convincing because it applies to pretty much every character you want.
2) They felt that homosexual characters should be represented, and had to do it through a series of hints? It’s more convincing, but you need to look at whether the inclusion of such a character adds to the story or the character itself somehow, i.e. find a serious motive to doing it.

Quote (manapriestess @ 15th May 2005 19:48)

1) They just wanted to throw in a gay character for the heck of it (or maybe because it was not allowed). In this case, you can definitely go through any game and find clues in everything to your satisfaction. But it’s usually less convincing because it applies to pretty much every character you want.
2) They felt that homosexual characters should be represented, and had to do it through a series of hints? It’s more convincing, but you need to look at whether the inclusion of such a character adds to the story or the character itself somehow, i.e. find a serious motive to doing it.

Hey, it could happen. One of the main characters in the game I'm developping (see sig ) is attracted to the same sex. It's partly a matter of convinience, but also an idea that popped into my head one morning and seemed like it could cause both controversy and be original. Everyone wins.

So, why not? Square has nothing to lose. Younger players probably won't pick up on the subtle hints, and older, hopefully more mature, players will play through the game and think, "Hrm. Sabin sounds like he may be a little... y'know? Wow. Square had a lots of guts putting in a character like that. I like this bold statement of theirs!"

Or... well, probably more something along the more realistic line of... "LOL! OMG WTF! Sabin is gay!? LOL!"...

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

This has got to be one of the funniest treads I've come across. However as funny as it is, I must get my points in for my personal disagreement. Peer pressure tells me to.

Anyway, on to the counter points:

Quote (Random House Webster's Dictionary)

Bear 2: (bar) n., pl. bears (b 1. Any large stocky, omnivorous mammal of the carnivore family Ursidae, with this course fur, a very short tail and a plantigrade gait inhabiting the Northern Hemisphere and N South America. 2. A gruff, clumbsy, or rude person. 3. A person who belives that stock prices will decline (opposed to bull). 4. (Cap) either of two constellations, Ursa Major or Ursa Minor. -Adj. 5. marked by declining prices, esp. of stocks: a bear market. [bef. 1000; ME be(a)re, beor(e) OE bera, c. MD bere, OHG bero; < GMC *beran- lit., the brown one; akin to ON bjorn, bersi ] bear'lik, adj.

[Please note that this isn't completly perfect puncuation as there are some marks I am not able to make I.E. a superceeded 2.]

The bolded part does seem to fit Sabin's personality and considering the context you're given in the game, he was probably making a small joke about himself. Not saying that he wanted to help you on your quest despite the fact that he's a hairy homosexual. Not that he's even that hairy in either the menu pic, CGI or field sprite to begin with.

As for the dishes situation, a few personal belongings were placed in there to show that Sabin dwelled within the house. In eastern cultures, tea is one of the most common drinks and south east Asia is known for having fine platterwear through out history. The flowers are a bit suspicious but remember that it's a small country cottage so a few plants are to be expected. As for Sabin being refined, his royalty has rubbed off upon him to a small extent but generally doesn't show itself. Also as world wide as some stereotypes may be, cultural differances do matter when taking a stereo type into account because traditions and differances often out weigh univerality. I belive this is the case here.

And concerning the scene with Gau, Sabin's one of the few people who actually knows Gau in terms of interacting with him in the story. Further more, he's the only person in your party who directly interacts with the Old Man in Sabin's Scenerio. Gau most certainly isn't the neatest kid in the world and would need a makeover to impress his dad. It's basicly a choice inbetween having Sabin offer a makeover or having Shadow kidnap Gau and play dress up with him in Jidoor at knife point, tied up in ropes. Now which choice sounds better to you? Also in direct response to Silverlance's script, Kefka's programmed to be in that scene?. How strange . . .

Concerning other Gau interactions, there are three characters that interact with Gau Cyan, Shadow and Sabin. The little tyke needs somebody to help him along in life and the other two people who can are too busy with their own torments. Sabin already has a brother so he obviously hasn't gone without such a bond before and his personal problems were mostly laid to rest by the time the party found him. Considering that Gau's real father is a drunken crazy man who can't tell the differance inbetween people and mosters, Sabin's the perfect or at least best choice for a fatherly figure.

As for romantic interactions that's harder to disprove. I can't think of a scene that confirms nor denies his sexual preferances. The dancer inncident was quite funny and considering Sabin's somewhat juvenile personality, it doesn't strike me as odd that he'd laugh. No wise cracks of course because he wouldn't want to embarass or anger Cyan but a good hearty laugh or little tiny chuckle most certainly isn't out of the question. As for the girl, I'm going to say that since she only offered a dance and not a trip "upstairs" that she was only a clubber looking for a dance partner. Cyan and his surprised highly conservitive reaction seemed to be main contributers to the sexual tonality of the scene.At any rate, using this argument I'd say that Mog's more likely to be gay then Sabin. He even has Umaro for pairing up with. Hey, who ever said that the furry little fuzz ball couln't be a male dominatrix? Hey, it would explain why Umaro's always so submissive to Mog's outrageous demands . . . As for the pallete problem, the game's just plain buggy. Obviously the beta testers never even really used Sketch. I'd dismiss it as laziness or a lack of observance at best.

On the other hand, there is the fact that Sabin is quite the a buff individual and we all know how the series treats buff looking people. If not, I've got a little game called Final Fantasy VII that you might want to play. Especially you Shadow Monroe.

P.S. Ted Woosly is not Lord Voldemort.

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Role reversal at its finest.

Quote

Inevitable twincest follows.

That is the best word I've ever heard.

Anyway, I've made my points and defended them to the best of my ability, so just reposting them in other words is kind of pointless. Although I would like to add that even though the American release would have you believe otherwise, the game isn't as 'safe' as you might think. Next to murder, which is really kind of hard to NOT include in a story like this, there are two suicide attempts (Celes' 'leap of faith' and Shadow's incomprehensible action at the ending), there's teenage pregnancy (Katarin's 17, like Duane, and the fact they're not married just pales in comparison).

So yeah, both are sketchy issues most catholics would find themselves in disagreement with.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

For the record, I think that rather than examining clues in a 1994 video game about a character's secret sexual orientation, we're simply displaying hypersensitive tendencies over a collection of benign quotes and actions.

That said, I've decided to invest the time to dig up quotes from this thread's oft-mentioned "bear" scene so that we can put to rest at least one more "horrible translation" controversy.

Edit: And here they are, for your viewing pleasure.




This post has been edited by Phoenix on 16th May 2005 03:31

Not every straight guy in the world has to have a reaction to women no matter what their situation. It would be annoying if all straight men were portrayed that way. Sabin already has a lot going on in his part of the story between Vargas, Duncan, Edgar and then Gau. Throwing a woman in there would have weakened those other aspects of the story and would have made Sabin's story too complicated. Taking on a big brother role while at the same time having an affair of sorts with a woman would be too much. Plus there's already plenty of love scenes within the game already. There's no need to have another handful involving Sabin.

But there's no evidence stopping people from interpreting Sabin as being gay. So do what you like. I think it's most likely false though, much like many of the crazy Gogo theories.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Quote (i90east)

But there's no evidence stopping people from interpreting Sabin as being gay. So do what you like. I think it's most likely false though, much like many of the crazy Gogo theories.

Because Gogo is really Sabin's hidden, gay side! Yes! He must be!
I figured it out
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (i90east @ 15th May 2005 23:04)

But there's no evidence stopping people from interpreting Sabin as being gay. So do what you like. I think it's most likely false though, much like many of the crazy Gogo theories.

Ah, but the difference there is the Jap. manual all but blatantly states Gogo's the character of the same name from FFV, "cleverly" mentioning something along the lines of he/she/it coming from a different world. That itself would make most of the theories false. (*NOTE* This comment is not intended to spark another Gogo debate!) However, there's nothing in the game or otherwise - least from what I've seen - that distinctly points out what every character's sexual orientation is, thus any reasonable speculation should still be valid. What's considered reasonable, well, that's just up to the individual.

Though I do agree with you. When it comes to Sabin, there really isn't anything as far as I can tell that supports his supposed homosexuality nor mucha anything that opposes it.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Well, prehaps if they remade the game with voiceovers and Sabin had a huge lisp...

That was an interesting read. Very interesting...

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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel876/homepage.html

Hmm...

I think I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I *gasp* agree with Djibriel!

I also find the number of posts in this topic to be quite amusing.

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“This is sickening... You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet!” – Kefka

Quote (Djibriel @ 15th May 2005 21:05)

Quote

Inevitable twincest follows.

That is the best word I've ever heard.

I first heard it applied to the Ashley & Mary Kate Olsen apparently touchy-feely way of taking pictures with each other.

Quote

Hey, it could happen. One of the main characters in the game I'm developping (see sig) is attracted to the same sex. It's partly a matter of convinience, but also an idea that popped into my head one morning and seemed like it could cause both controversy and be original.

I have a sinking feeling that it’s going to be a girl attracted to another girl.
However, point taken. But it’s still tougher to make this argument because you never can be quite sure which character it was in the creator’s head unless they come out and say it. So fan-arguments can go for any character, making many of them unconvincing.

Quote

Ah, but the difference there is the Jap. manual all but blatantly states Gogo's the character of the same name from FFV, "cleverly" mentioning something along the lines of he/she/it coming from a different world.

I always had the feeling that Gogo is the FF5 summoned monster ever since I played FF5. Thanks for clearing that up.

This post has been edited by manapriestess on 16th May 2005 18:14

this is crazy, but i must say that djib has got one hell of a thesis, pretty damn good. im not sure i agree with it, but there are lots of very nice points in it. i personally believe that sabin is not a homosexual despite djib's thingy. i gotta think about more evidence to propose a better argument, but im kinda lazy right now lol.

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"The answer is, of course, that it would be best to be both loved and feared. But since the two rarely come together, anyone compelled to choose will find greater security in being feared than in being loved."
- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

Though I'd think it 'fabulous' and sincerely enjoy it if Sabin were gay, it doesn't seem to me as if he is. As others have said and proved, translation and ...Him account for a chunk of the evidence. Alot of the things, such as the dishes, are more a plot device than an indicator of homosexual tendencies. Sure, they could've gone with 'this is his favourite type of cheese!' but, people have said it's a bit of a japanese thing, and dishes make more sense than cheese as he may have, I don't know, taken dishes from the castle to eat off, stirring things in Edgar's memory or such like. That said, I doubt they thought about it that hard and it's a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea. As for him not flirting with females, perhaps it's something to do with his discipline, but, much more likely, Square thought 'hey, not every character has to have a bit of a romantic bit' and Sabin just got the short end of the stick alittle. Thus, I am of the opinion Sabin is straight. That said, I'm not beyond bringing Sabin/???? relationships into question. (???? being the ghosts that join/give you food on the phantom train.)

What we don't need is people running around various forums claiming Sabin is gay or probably gay. That's how bad rumors spread, and there's a small basis for coming to the conclusion that Sabin is gay. As shown here, most people disagree with the theory and would prefer to see him as being straight. Sure Sabin could be gay, but he's most likely not. If some people at Square intended to have Sabin be gay and show it in a subtle way then they were way too subtle, as it took more than ten years for anyone to pick up the idea.

This post has been edited by i90east on 16th May 2005 22:04

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Quote (Silverlance @ 15th May 2005 13:35)

My money's on... Kumama.

Kupop is obviously the gay Moogle. First of all, look at the way he fights. It has "gay" written all over it. No Moogle fights like that unless he likes Moogles of the same sex, and that's a fact.

Furthermore, you are obviously not well versed in Moogle etymology. His name is such an obvious hint. "Ku" means "to be attracted to" and "pop" means "father/male" depending on the context. It's kind of like that George Michael song, "Father Figure."

But no, let's get serious here for a minute...Kupop is gay.



As far as Sabin goes, I have to agree with Bahamut, that is kind of stretching it.

I agree that to make him a gay character Square would have to be subtle about it. But this just seems like too much subtlety. Sabin shows no overt attraction to women, granted, but neither does he shows even a covert attraction to men. If the developers wanted to really hint at Sabin being gay they might have had him engage in some sort of "cozy" relationship with another male character. Tonepoet brought up the honeybee in FFVII. Now there is an example of hinting at a gay character overtly while not coming right out and saying it.

Also, Sabin is a martial arts fighter, and I think his training would discourage any kind of skirt-chasing. It has always seemed to me that the "hardest" men, or the most disciplined, are not prone to outward shows of sexuality. My point with all of this is really the scene with Cyan.

I remember Cyan feeling a distinct sense of shame with the "dancer," both for her, because of her suggestive actions, and for himself, because he was an unwilling participant. That was always my interpretation, and I believe that is what leads to his embarrassment. Is there a moment of weakness where he shows attraction? Maybe, but I really don’t remember it. Someone would have to quote the script.

But even in that state of "emotional wreckage" he has enough of a sense of honor to turn away from her. Likewise, I think it would also be out of character for Sabin, as a well trained martial artist/"monk", to look her up and down. Is it also out of character for Sabin to laugh at Cyan? I don't think so. He can have a juvenile sense of humor around people he knows, which includes Cyan at that point, without it having a detrimental effect on his nobility or honor. Getting involved with a hussy, or getting a "dance" from the "dancer," would be much more dishonorable.

I think the only questionable element would be the flowers. That's odd, I'll give you that, but not enough to make me think that he is gay.

Sabin's insults are somewhat... interesting. A vocabulary such as his may be the result of a bad translation, but it leaves a few questions hanging...

Sabin: You look more like a manicurist. Now SCRAM!!!
Sabin: And you're a king crab!

His reactions are... unmanly, to say the least.

Sabin: B...brother... Waa, ahhh, ahhh...
Edgar: So... They went and told you...

Sabin: Duncan... I'm so glad you're safe!!!
DUNCAN: Whoa?! Sabin, this can't be... Tears??

But frankly, there's hardly any doubt that Edgar's in on the whole deviance thing, too!

Sabin: I have come to experience anew the love of my brother!

His childhood reveals him to be a sweet, innocent kid. Is the body-builder thing just as much a front as Edgar's ladies' man act?

MATRON: Yes... His name is Sabin. Oh, he looked so like his father! When he ran away, he was a sweet little child. I wonder what he's like now?

There's absolutely no doubt that Sabin's... well, quite in touch with his feminine side. The dishes, the flowers, the tea, the emotional reactions... Plus, well, his "love" for his brother is obviously a hint at something un-Nintendo.

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 16th May 2005 22:50

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

This is the kind of over-analysis that leads to stuff like "OMG, Frog == St. Peter!" Except, you know, without the religion. I enjoy breaking down a game as much as the next guy, but this is just such a stretch I can't take it seriously.

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My soul is bound to the Mistress of the Afterlife, and my fealty is to her always. So let's just hope she doesn't use it as one of her ten daily meals.

Quote (The Celestial @ 16th May 2005 17:51)

This is the kind of over-analysis that leads to stuff like "OMG, Frog == St. Peter!" Except, you know, without the religion. I enjoy breaking down a game as much as the next guy, but this is just such a stretch I can't take it seriously.

Half of it is a serious attempt at understanding Sabin's character, the rest is plain entertainement and hardly serious.

I can honestly say most of my posts in this thead have been somewhat joking, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. But a few have been serious. Because, frankly, the evidence, while severely debatable, is still there.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

There's as much reason to assume that he's gay as there is reason to assume that he's straight.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Personally I would say that Sabin is staright. But all of this evidence has become very interesting to me. Here are some things that I can hope to contribute.

1.Sabin doesnt talk a lot during the game which could be because of his seclusion which could lead to his liking of flowers because he is peacuful as are some martial artists, his taste in plates and other dishes could come from his royal history, and same with tea because thats what royalty drink a lot. Now how Edgar knew all this im going to go with Silverlance and saying that he is a stalker.

2.Being from a different era there could be different fads. Sooner or later this whole big thing with homosexuals is going to clear up and most people are going to stop making fun of them for their choices. And eventually this issue of gay being bad is going to be brought up again. It will go in a loop. Therefore if someone did reseach into what was a bad trend in the time of this games creation it could show if this was their intention for the usage of "bear". Personally I think they mean bear as in a big strong person that has a soft side which chicks fall for. That could be his game plan. If Terra called Sabin a bear first then he could say it again for use as sarcasm.

3. Mabey Sabin isnt as energetic as the others and mabey hes just shy so he doesnt hit on everybody that he meets. I know a lot of people who cant even talk to girls because of their shyness and therefore cant ever get a date/girlfriend. (I know because im one of 'em) That doesnt make them gay.

Or mabey im wrong and they made Sabin to be gay, but you can only truely know by asking the makers.

And so my opinion is stated and so shall it remain. (Or untill proven otherwise.)

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Ok, i know its spelled Sabin, get over it!

May I propose a different theory?

It's fantasy, they don't intend to fill in any more blanks than they explicitly did. If it's not conclusive what Sabin's preference is, then it doesn't matter to the game, you can imagine it to be whatever you want it to be. (Yes, you're allowed to use imagination when playing video games.) Personally, I myself am hairy, like tea and flowers, dislike opera, and make crude jokes, and I'm not gay, so in my fantasy world neither is Sabin. Your mileage may vary given your own life experiences. It's like a book -- any detail not written down is given to the reader to shape for him-or-herself.

Or, to make a long story short: Sabin's sexuality only exists in the mind of the gamer, who may imagine it as desired.

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Wasabi Viniagrette: Mix 1/3 C rice vinegar, 2 Tbsp sesame oil, and 2 tsp powdered wasabi. Excellent over cold udon noodles and shiitake mushrooms for a Japanese pasta salad.

I agree that Sabin was meant to be gay. Now maybe that's not how it was in the Japanese version; I can't say because I don't know Japanese. However, lots of changes were made to characters in the name of localization, and I think this may be one of those changes. Also, for that same reason, the "eastern" culture cannot be used as an excuse for his behavior.

Reasons:
1) Sabin's name was changed from Mash. Sabin is the surname of a famous gay author. Coincidence?

2) Innuendo is common when a wirter/creator wants to appeal to different levels of an audience. For example, as a child I watched Bugs Bunny cartoons and I liked it based on the funny animated characters. Now that I'm older, I can watch the same cartoon and I hear some funny jokes that went right over my head before. The same technique is used in prime time sitcoms if you'll notice. In this way they can appeal to a wider audience. Is it so much of a stretch to think that Square was doing this with a video game?

3) Literary-wise, Sabin is offered as a foil to Edgar's womanizing ways. That does not necessarily mean he's gay--the other option is that he's asexual--but it's strong circumstantial evidence.

4) Flowers, tea, and dishes are shown as some of the things that Sabin likes--not only that, but it's enough of an interest that his long-lost brother knows about it. This is not a Japanese game (as it has been localized). These interests certainly do not mean to show him as straight.

5) Leaving the kingdom excuses him from marriage.

6) He spent much of his life in isolation with other men.

7) The scene where he makes Gau over--Sabin overrules even the females' opinions on fashion. Clearly, fashion is a passion of his. Stereotypical, yes, but that's how characters must be when you can't outrightly state the implied.

8) He shows no interest in any woman in the game. Sure, he could be shy, but no monologue, no wishing from afar, nothing?

9) "Bear" as Djibriel said is a subtype within the gay community. The quotes scream innuendo! If he were merely commenting on his bulk, the quotes would not be necessary. Clearly, he is at best making a pun.

10) His original name was Mash. Think M*A*S*H the TV show. Now think Clinger. Enough said.

11) Several of his dialogues can be mis-interpreted. Yes, I think that's a stretch, but I thought I'd throw it in there.

12) His ultimate move.

13) Fire Dance has flaming Sabins as the animation.

14) His behavior at the Opera House as well as the way he eats on the Phantom Train show that "refined" is not a word that would describe Sabin. Again, dishes, flowers, and tea are meant to say something "else" about him.

15) This game came out in the 90's. Now also in the 90's was the movement to end the stigma on homosexuals. This is their way of being the "first" to have an obviously gay character without stating it outright and drawing too much controversy.

That's all I got for now.

This post has been edited by Ogopogo on 17th May 2005 14:15

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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

Wow, great theory! I think I'm a believer. After all why couldn't he be gay? There is absolutely no evidence to say otherwise. And who better for gay RPG'ers to associate with the a hot muscular man? (I'm assuming).

Interesting theories aside, Sabin's sexual orientation is hardly a facet of his character. His actual story, as the "lost son of figaro" is far more interesting and it shows his character more than any set of flowers or tea which easily can go undiscovered on a players first play through. Sabin's character is hardly the gay body builder. He is just the body builder period. If you wanna make him gay, he's gay! If you don't, he's not!

But you knew that already.

This post has been edited by The Ancient on 17th May 2005 17:22

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Quote (Ogopogo @ 17th May 2005 09:12)

12) His ultimate move.

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!! I just got that! You have a really dirty mind!

But seriously, I guess we'll never know Sabin's true sexuality (personally, I think he's gay), but we can decide to interpret it either way (Which everyone else has already said about 800 times, but I'm just trying to make sure this post isn't credited as spam!).

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“This is sickening... You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet!” – Kefka

Quote (Ogopogo @ 17th May 2005 09:12)

10) His original name was Mash.  Think M*A*S*H the TV show.  Now think Clinger. Enough said.

I dont get how you can get Clinger just from the name Mash? Just because he has the same name as a TV show doesnt mean he is supposed to be like someone from said show. I just dont get the relationship. Plus Clinger was just trying to get out of the army, he wasnt actually gay.His game plan was to get out on being mentally unfit to serve.

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Ok, i know its spelled Sabin, get over it!

Quote (Ogopogo)

4) Flowers, tea, and dishes are shown as some of the things that Sabin likes--not only that, but it's enough of an interest that his long-lost brother knows about it. This is not a Japanese game (as it has been localized). These interests certainly do not mean to show him as straight.

So guys that have an interest or even a bit of a passion for flowers, tea and dishes must be gay? I don't think so. Ok, so the writers gave Sabin these interests. Why? There's no way to know for sure, but I've always been under the impression that it's to show Sabin's softer side, to show that under his rough and tough body builder image lies a kind and gentle heart. As you see throughout the game, this does turn out to be the case.

Quote (Ogopogo)

6) He spent much of his life in isolation with other men.

Yes, fighters. That's how he became a strong fighter, through years of training.

Quote (Ogopogo)

9) "Bear" as Djibriel said is a subtype within the gay community. The quotes scream innuendo! If he were merely commenting on his bulk, the quotes would not be necessary. Clearly, he is at best making a pun.

Earlier in the thread it has been shown that Terra originally mentioned bear first.

Quote (Ogopogo)

12) His ultimate move.

Master ZED mentioned Battle Dance as being the original name of the move... unless you really think Ted Woolsey meant to make Sabin gay during the translation.

Nothing clearly shows that Sabin is meant to be gay. You have to want Sabin to be gay to interpret aspects of Sabin's character and dialogue as evidence supporting such an assertion. It is a very interesting assertion with many thought provoking points, which is why I enjoy participating in the discussion. Nice post Ogopogo, but I don't see it as being very convincing. Good ideas though.

This post has been edited by i90east on 18th May 2005 04:06

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Oh, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that it's a definte; I agree with those who say it can't be stated beyond a reasonable doubt; however, there is enough evidence to say that it's not *unlikely*, in fact, it's quite possible. What I am saying is that *if* someone were going to put a gay character into a game, this is exactly how it would be done.



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Food is like magic in my ears. - Djibriel
Ogopogo lives.

By the way, I just found evidence of something I had been thinking of about this topic a while ago:

http://www.jamiecrothall.com/ff6novelmain.html

Amano gave Sabin a beard. However, the computer-animation cutscenes deny the existence of the beard.

Take what you may of that. I'd say the cutscene Sabin is more like the true Sabin, and that's not because of this thread. I simply never pictured his sprite with a beard either.

edit: Keep in mind that Amano also gave Terra blond hair.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 18th May 2005 14:45

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Wow, I have never seen these pictures before. Sabin looks weird with the beard. Their pic for the actor of Kefka looked cool. I guess that helps prove the bear theory alot. Mabey they had it change originally mid-game to the clean shaven Saban. It would make sense because he wouldnt care what he looked like in seclusion but mabey traveling with a bunch people changed his mind to look good and respectable. Just a sugestion. Although I dont do programming so I wouldnt know how hard it would be to change mid-game. If anybody knows it would be a help to what I think. (And mabey others.)

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Ok, i know its spelled Sabin, get over it!

So we've moved from the original pointless topic to a new pointless topic? Or am I missing the connection between Sabin's sexual preference and whether or not he has facial hair?

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.