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Hey guys I need your help. For Expert Version 3 I'm going to try creating drastic strengths and weaknesses for all the characters (EDIT: this idea may actually be scrapped now and saved for a different type of hack). Can you help me determine what those strengths and weaknesses should be? It would be too complicated for me to ask you what each individual stat should be like for each character, so if you could just provide general responses that would be helpful.

Here's what I think:

Terra:
High magic power, high magic defense, poor armor, low physical abilities, weak dirks only

Locke:
Dual weapons, high speed, high evade, good relics, no sheild, poor magic ability, low defense, poor armor

Edgar:
Great weapons, armor and relics, poor stats all around

Sabin:
Dual weapons, high defense, high attack power, no sheild, low evade

Cyan:
High attack power, swords offer high evade, great armor, two handed swords (gauntlet effect), no sheild, slow speed, poor magic ability

Shadow:
High speed, high evade, good magic power, poor defense, poor magic defense, poor armor

Gau:
High speed, high evade, great relics, good magic ability, poor attack power, poor armor, poor defense, no sheild

Celes:
??? How should Celes differ from Terra?

Setzer:
Great slot attacks, great relics, poor stats all around

Mog:
???

Strago:
Very high magic power, poor defense, poor physical ability, poor evade

Relm:
High magic power, high evade, poor defense, poor physical ability

Gogo:
???

Umaro:
Great physical attack power and defense, high defense, poor evade

This post has been edited by i90east on 21st April 2005 23:56

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Well, you see I don't play ROMs so I can't play the Expert Version I've heard so much about. However, I might be able to pull out some ideas based on the original FF VI.

Quote (i90 east)

Celes:
??? How should Celes differ from Terra?

You could make her oppisite Terra, good attack/defense but poor in the magic department. It fits the bill because where as Terra's a confused, homeless and wonders about things like love, Celes is a confident, ex-general of the empire, who's somewhat cold. Also, Morph and Runic oppisite each other (Offensive/Defensive) so you might as well take advantage of that. Besides the two girls were too similar (battlewise) in the original anyway. (The MP from runic can be used on Grey spells.)

Quote (i90 east)

Mog:
???.

Dance is his thing so good speed and evade seems good if you down allot of other stuff, except that's Locke's deal now isn't it? Evade can go up and speed can go down to lower similarity I suppose. I'd also up the stumbles and keep the defense and magic realitivly high but nix some physical attack. Evade can go up and speed can go down I suppose

Quote (i90east)

Gogo:
???

Give him good stats all round but ditch his ability to do anything aside from Item Fight and Mimic. Give him cruddy weapons to compensate for fight and have Mimic cost something if possible. That should make it more like an actual Mimic rather then just a jack of all trades.

Well, those are my ideas, not that they count for anything. I hope that they can get you past this "writers block" though.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 21st April 2005 04:56

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Role reversal at its finest.

For Mog, maybe while in a Dance there is a chance he can be hit out of it and stumble. Or his defense and evade become terrible because he has to focus so much. But, increase the strength of dances so it's well worth it.

Gogo, mimic can fail prehaps? Or, like Tonepoet said ditch all abilities except Fight and Mimic. Then, make his Mimic kinda like Morph. For a certain amount of time he can't be controlled, and he'll randomly mimic attacks. After a while, it wears off and he returns to normal.

Just throwing stuff out there.

This post has been edited by Racthoh on 21st April 2005 05:13

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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel876/homepage.html

Agh, please don't do that to Terra. It's one of the only (... the only? Only FFT and FF5 come to mind) games where the main female spellcaster uses swords and armor. Terra's a Magitek Soldier (her official job class) and Celes is a Rune Knight -- hardly shrinking violet material. Why not make Terra have strong magic power, but only be able to cast the spells she learns naturally? Same thing with Celes; the spells she learns naturally are more effect-based than Terra's mostly polarized damage/healing spells, so it wouldn't make them godmoders to let them keep their relatively high attack powers/equipment abilities.

Really, I think you should eliminate Espers as teaching spells.

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

Quote (i90east @ 20th April 2005 21:57)

Celes:
??? How should Celes differ from Terra?


Mog:
???


Gogo:
???

Celes should get good magic defense and some good weapons. Medium armor and a tad of evade above the average. Poor defense and medium (towards lower) magic power.

Mog:
Great speed and evade
Good Magic power.
Low M.Block, armor.

Gogo I'd make the medium level in everything.
Or if that's not a good idea for you, a tad better defense, magic power and magic defense. Lower the physicals for that.

Edit

Fixed spelling, yar!

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 21st April 2005 08:10

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

For personal convenience, I'm not going to list all the stat categories for every character. There are some things I haven't really decided, and that's probably why they're kinda missing from this list.

Terra: high magic stats, below-average physical stats.
Locke: high speed and evade, below-average physical stats.
Edgar: above-average physical stats, below-average speed.
Sabin: high physical stats, low magic stats.
Shadow: high speed and evade, above-average physical stats, low magic stats.
Cyan: high physical stats, high evade.
Gau: Average physical attack, low physical defense, high evade, high special attack.
Celes: high physical stats, above-average (but not high) magic stats. (Maybe also low evade, since she seems to be able to get herself into a jam pretty easily.)
Setzer: low speed, above-average magic stats.
Mog: above-average magic stats, average physical stats, above-average evade.
Strago: low speed and evade, high magic stats.
Relm: above-average speed, above-average (but not high) magic defense, average magic attack, low physical stats.
Umaro: high physical stats, low magic stats, low speed and evade.
Gogo: below-average stats in all categories.

I don't have much objection to weapon choices except that Relm should NOT be able to deal significant damage using a PAINTBRUSH. As for other equipment, I didn't pay much attention.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

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Hmm... I think I see some problems with your current setup i90...

As you have it now, all of the great armour can be worn by two characters: Edgar and Cyan. 2 of 14 possible characters. I can only assume that most people wouldn't want to waste the best armour in the game so you're narrowed to having one of thses two characters on your team.

Terra shouldn't be reduced to dirks and clothes as her optimum equipment. I highly doubt one who served as a Magitek Soldier would sport that setup. Ditto for Celes.

I would think that Gau would have a high attack power but next to nothing in magic. The kid can barely talk, yet he possess the mental capabilities to wield the most powerful of all magics? In all the years he was left abandoned I doubt he relied on his magic prowess. Brute strength is his forte.

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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel876/homepage.html

Hmm just a thought try making Terra learn more magic spells as she levels up near the start becides like poison and antidote or maybe double her esper learning ability. Also for Gau make him learn all the rages you encounter before you get him back if you can. Oh and for Sabin have high strength and magic resistance and low defence.

My two cents.



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Life is not a practice, always play to win.
I buried Ponce.

It looks like you're trying to reduce the FF VI cast to their FF V jobs and get the according stats/equips. I really don't think that fits too well.

Example. Sabin is a Monk. If you would be looking at raw damage output, Sabin is a Mage. That sounds surprising, no? AuraBolt beats Pummel throughout the WoB (around the Floating Continent, Pummel starts to become stronger, but the magical Bum Rush isn't far away at that point). His claws are unimpressive and Fight is always a joke on Sabin unless you boost it with Genji Glove/Offering/Atlas Armlet/whatever you have. The same can be done with Relm.

So when you say 'Dual weapons, high defense, high attack power, no sheild, low evade', I think that you're thinking too much about the generic Monk-type guy, and not specifically about Sabin, who is almost always much better off in the Back Row, with a shield and a set of Earrings.

Another example, as is pointed out by other people, is the fact that Terra and Celes are much more all-round character, even in the way they are presented, than they are pure mages.

I haven't played your Expert Versions, and I'm not sure what route you've taken in the previous two. You must've done quite a few things right when you released the 2nd version, as it drew quite a few fans; still I'm not sure if I'm a fan of tinkering with stats/equips in this way.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

I'd agree with Djibriel, somewhat.

As I see it, the basic question is, are you trying to:
1) Make the characters "like the originals, but more so"?
Or
2) Make an interesting set of characters that seems reasonably plausible given the plot, but doesn't bother sticking too closely to the original game?

'Cause it definitely matters. Once I know what you're aiming for, I'll be glad to give my 2¢.

Yeah changing this stuff could be considered crossing the integrity line, making EV3 too custom. But I was thinking of trying it anyway just to see what it's like, because it really could make the gameplay more interesting and would set EV3 apart from the previous two versions (EV1 & EV2 are basically straight forward difficulty increases to the original game). The game's battle engine awaits further exploration. I have gotten some suggestions to make characters more specialized in their abilities, so there's at least some support in favor of the idea. I think if done right it could be accepted as the new form of FFVI, a modern rendition perhaps.

I think the biggest problem would be a player's knowledge of the game suddenly being useless. That's something to ponder over. Perhaps such drastic changes should be reserved for a non-expert version hack. After all, how could you be an expert if you know little about the new system? Yeah, perhaps this is the best route to take.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Gogo: Should be a very middle of the road character. Since he/she/it is a jack of all trades, then he/she/it is a master of none. Avg. strength, avg. magic, avg. etc.

Celes: She's stronger than your average woman (being a soldier and all). You have to let her equip swords and other heavy weapons.

I was looking at GMH's list, and find that I agree with most of it.

Since the last game was more focused on status ailments, you might want to try and find another unused avenue (for that originality). I'm not exactly what that is yet....

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kame, tortue, tortuga, schildkröte, tartaruga, turtle

"Arthur Dent?"
"Yes."
"Arthur Philip Dent?"
"Yes."
"You're a total knee biter."

somehow I feel that letting terra have heavy equipment, storywise, ain't much of a good idea, as said previously. Give the poor lost girl a sword, and she might cut herself.

just a thought.

--------------------

"Fire and steel
follow me through the lands
you will burn hordes of hell
in the deadly raging flames of revenge"

Rhapsody - Flames of Revenge

Quote (alphasmart @ 23rd April 2005 01:52)

somehow I feel that letting terra have heavy equipment, storywise, ain't much of a good idea, as said previously.  Give the poor lost girl a sword, and she might cut herself.

just a thought.

Eh?

She, uh. Uses swords in the game.

EDIT:

Quote

despite all its grammatical forthcomings

Eh?

Do you mean "shortcomings"?

This post has been edited by L. Cully on 23rd April 2005 07:01

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Some ghost of me might greet my son
the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

True, but it is a bit silly for the reasons I mentioned. And no, I know what I mean. Maybe. The sig will soon be completely different anyway.

--------------------

"Fire and steel
follow me through the lands
you will burn hordes of hell
in the deadly raging flames of revenge"

Rhapsody - Flames of Revenge

I'll try to keep mine simple by using a 1-5 rating for each stat (5 being best), and all this purely my opinion, for what it's worth.

Also, I think there should be a bit more specialization when it comes to weapons and armor.
I'm not bothering with the special weapons (the ones with a star icon). Leave them be or get rid of them to make room for more of the other kinds of weapons.
There should be a differentiation between the regular knives and the ones that only Shadow uses.
Light Armor will refer to robes and lightweight suits.
Medium Armor is armor made from light/weak metal or some sort of material (like leather)
Heavy armor is the stronger metals.
Snow muffler is light armor. Or leave it to Gau and Mog.
The Low-Medium-High rating for weapons mostly refers to power.

Terra
Attack: 3
Defense: 3
Magic: 4
Magic Defense: 3.5
Evade: 2
Weapon: Lower-Medium Swords, Lower Daggers
Armor: Medium

Locke
Attack: 3
Defense: 3
Magic: 2
Magic Defense: 2
Evade: 5
Weapon: All Daggers, lower Ninja Knives
Armor: Light

Celes
Attack: 4
Defense: 3.5
Magic: 3
Magic Defense: 3
Evade: 2
Weapon: All Swords, Lower Daggers
Armor: Heavy

Edgar
Attack: 4
Defense: 3
Magic: 2
Magic Defense: 2
Evade: 2
Weapon: All Lances, Lower-Medium Swords
Armor: Heavy

Sabin
Attack: 5
Defense: 3
Magic: 2.5
Magic Defense: 2.5
Evade: 4
Weapon: Claws only
Armor: Light

Cyan
Attack: 5
Defense: 4
Magic: 2
Magic Defense: 2
Evade: 2
Weapon: Katanas only
Armor: Heavy

Shadow
Attack: 4
Defense: 2
Magic: 3.5
Magic Defense: 2
Evade: 3.5
Weapon: All Ninja Knives, lower Daggers
Armor: Light

Strago
Attack: 1
Defense: 2
Magic: 5
Magic Defense: 5
Evade: 2
Weapon: All Staves
Armor: Light

Relm
Attack: 2
Defense: 2
Magic: 5
Magic Defense: 4
Evade: 2
Weapon: All Brushes, Lower Staves
Armor: Light

Mog
Attack: 3.5
Defense: 2.5
Magic: 3.5
Magic Defense: 2.5
Evade: 3
Weapon: Lower-Medium Lances, Lower Daggers
Armor: Medium

Umaro
Attack: 5
Defense: 5
Magic: 2
Magic Defense: 2
Evade: 2
Weapon: Default
Armor: Default

Setzer
Attack: 2.5
Defense: 2
Magic: 3
Magic Defense: 3
Evade: 3
Weapon: Gambling equipment only
Armor: Medium

Gogo
Attack: 2.5
Defense: 2.5
Magic: 2.5
Magic Defense: 2.5
Evade: 2.5
Weapon: Lower Staves, Lower Daggers, Lower Swords
Armor: Light-Medium

Gau
Attack: 4
Defense: 2
Magic: 3
Magic Defense: 2
Evade: 4
Weapon: None/Random stick from the ground
Armor: Light-Medium

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
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