Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

So i just finally slogged my way through the "Sephiroth Situation" thread, and I have to say it increased my respect for a game that I once thought was fun, but not amazing, a hundredfold. Man, now I need to play it again. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about the signifigance of Sephiroth's name? Since a lot of ff4 seems to be based on the Divine Comedy, (and I guess 6 seems to have Star Wars references...hm, what happened to the heavy literature?) and 7 seems to mention a lot with Norse mythology (Midgar, Nibleheim, etc) naming the main villain after a Kabbalistic presence (the Sephiroth were the 10 presences that protected the divine light which was sort of a Kabbalistic God) seems kind of out of place. Anyone else?

--------------------

"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

I doubt that Square intentionally picked a certain religion/mythology/culture and tried to use its names and terms as much as possible. It's probably just something that someone came up with.

<some1> Does anyone have a good name?
* long silence
<some2> How about 'Sephiroth'?
<some3> Why that name?
<some2> Because [insert stuff about Kabbalistic presence or whatever its called and stuff about the 10 Sephiroths and stuff].
<some1> Sounds like a good idea. And no one has thought of that name before. So what do y'all say we use it?
<some2> Sounds good.
<some3 and others> Cool.

--------------------

Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Hmmm... Upon hearing this, I think you may have something. I don't think it's as random as suggested, perhaps. You said it's the protecton of the 'divine light' or whatnot and you have ol' Sephy who sees himself as protector, newfound god, chosen one, whathaveyou, of his Ancient heritage, no?
Then again, this 4:30am talk may be complete BS. Perhaps someone can help clarify what I'm attempting.

--------------------

Games on the Go
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy: Four Warriors of Light
Baldur's Gate

Too much to play, so little time!

Greg

Quote

Sephiroth
This name derives from the Kabbala, a religious lore that has its origins in Jewish mysticism:
"At the Creation," explains Kabbalist spokesman Steve Edelman, "God sent out a pulse of energy into the void. It presently branched and sorted into ten distinct spheres or aspects, corresponding to the numbers 1-10. These are known as the Sephiroth. To return to God, the soul must negotiate each of the Sephiroth, from ten back to one. Armed with magic and faith, Kabbalists have set out to conquer the Sephiroth. Many Kabbalist secrets have to do with making the trip successfully.
"Now the Sephiroth fall into a pattern, which is called the Tree of Life. It is also the body of God. Drawn among the ten spheres are 22 paths. Each path corresponds to a letter of the Hebrew alphabet, and also to one of the cards called 'Major Arcana' in the Tarot.
"Some Sephiroth are active or masculine, others passive or feminine. But the Tree itself is a unity, rooted exactly at the Bodenplatte. It is the axis of a particular Earth, a new dispensation, brought into being by the Great Firing."
(Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon, p. 753)

–The character Sephiroth tries to become a god by destroying the planet, hence the religiously connoted name. Also, Kabbalists believe that mastering the Tree of Life is a method to achieve divine enlightenment, and that’s basically what Hojo wants Sephiroth to do: "Ha, ha, ha...... Go beyond the powers of science...Before your presence, science is powerless...". The ‘Great Firing’ that brings a new world into being reminds us of the Nibelheim accident where Sephiroth becomes insane.

I had that saved somewhere on my computer. As for it's accuracy, well, I can't say. Hope it helps.

Quote (Mimic @ 6th April 2005 04:02)

[QUOTE]I had that saved somewhere on my computer. As for it's accuracy, well, I can't say. Hope it helps.

It's accurate.

Just to add to all that, it's also likely that "JENOVA" means "New God," it being a bastardization of Hebrew "YHWH" (which gets converted to "JHVH" quite often) combined with "Nova," the Latin word for "New." Considering this, as well as that the Sephiroth is essentially a tool of God, and that Final Fantasy VII's Sephiroth is arguably a tool of this "New God" (JENOVA), it fits quite well.

While VII's storytelling was atrocious at times in my opinion, the use of symbolism is something I adore about it.

--------------------

My Final Fantasy VII Plot Analysis

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" — Edmund Burke

... and here I was, thinking that Sephiroth and Jenova merely sounded cool... deep backgroundage...

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

I wouldn't say each FF follows a theme. They all pretty much mix them all up.
Having four related bosses get their names from the same place doesn't make FFIV "based on" Dante's Divine Comedy nor does having two inconsequential characters unrelatingly named after two Star Wars characters make FFVI based off of SW.

--------------------

"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Well, I don't know if EACH final fantasy follows a theme, but I think the Divine Comedy references in 4 are a little too numerous to ignore, and since there is an awful lot of Norse mythology in 7 I was just wondering if anyone had some insight. PS, for mentioning Gravity's Rainbow, Mimic is now my "best friend for life" and will be awarded allthe title entails.

--------------------

"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Heh FF is so backed up on varuios legends, myths, and symbolism its crazy...
ragnoark- doom of gods

Excalibur- sword of king arther

Shiva- god of destruction in hindu

Tidus ultiamte sword (forgot ) legendary irish sword said to cleave mt. in 2 with a single cut

Dragons,trolls and all other monsters

Leviathan- demon of the sea also arch-devil of the 5th circle of hell

odin- god of war

ifirt- leader of the elemental efreet

ramuh 7th incarnation of vishnu

Bahamut and kujata are llinked becuase bahamut is a giant fish and kujata is a bull upon him and on top of kujata is an angel

Fenrir - beast of ragnoark son of loki

Quezacotl- god of vegitaion for the native americans

theres a few if you want more i can post them but im out of time








--------------------

procastinate now, dont put it off

The descriptions Mimic and and Squall of SeeD gave are from another FF website that describes the origins of names from every character from every FF game. I cannot remember the name of the site off hand but it was pretty interesting.

--------------------

War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

Tidus' sword is the Cadadbolg, Odin is the Norse god of both War and Wisdom, and Ragnarok (not Ragnoark) is indeed the doom of the gods, but Quezacoatl was the god of rain and crops for the Aztecs (in modern day Mexico), not "native americans."

I'll go ahead and add some more:

Odin's legendary spear Gungnir of Norse myth makes a few appearances.

Midgar was the middle-world populated by mankind from the nine worlds of Norse myth.

Nirvana, Yuna's ultimate weapon is the ultimate stage of enlightenment for Bhuddists.

The Spirit Lance was called the Longinus Spear in the Japanese version of FF X, and Longinus was the Roman soldier who stabbed Jesus Christ at his crucifixion (man, I hope I spelled that right).

Sirens were maidens of Greek myth that lured sailors to their deaths at rocky reefs. They're in both the story of Jason and the Odyssey, and are portrayed as either beautiful nude maidens, mermaids, or something similar to harpies.

Diablo is Spanish for Devil; like I needed to tell you that.

Golem means "raw materials" in Hebrew and was some kind of stone or clay guardian for Jerusalem, I think (but I could be wrong on the second half of that sentence....).

Cyclops was a name applied to both the sons of Gaea that forged Zeus' thunderbolts and a number of other less divine monsters that lived on an isolated island somewhere in the ocean (at least in the Odyssey). I say less divine because they weren't as important, but at least one of them was a son of Poseidon, so you really can't be sure.

Cerberus was the spawn of Typhon and Echidna and guarding of the gates of Hades.

Hades was the Greek god and ruler of the underworld.

I'm not really sure how they turned the story of Ixion into a thunder-unicorn-thing, but Ixion was a mortal man who made advances towards Zeus' wife Hera, so Zeus punished him by chaining him to a wheel which spun in Tartaros for eternity. I've heard both a fire-wheel and a fire-less wheel version of the myth, but no lightning. I'm not sure where they got the name from.

The name Nibelheim probably comes from Niflheim, which was an icy and mountainous world which served as both the home of the giant Ymir, from which the other worlds in Norse myth were made, and as the realm of the dead. This sort of makes sense in context with FF VII, being both the land of Cloud and Tifa's origin and the resting place for Vincent and several other dark secrets.

I have an exam in like three hours, so I'm going to stop futzing around on the net and study some more. Peace out.

--------------------

this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Quote (laszlow @ 7th April 2005 10:21)

The Spirit Lance was called the Longinus Spear in the Japanese version of FF X, and Longinus was the Roman soldier who stabbed Jesus Christ at his crucifixion (man, I hope I spelled that right).

Golem means "raw materials" in Hebrew and was some kind of stone or clay guardian for Jerusalem, I think (but I could be wrong on the second half of that sentence....).

The Lance of Longinus (accounts differ on whether the Roman soldier used a lance or a spear, but there is barely a difference) is also seen in Evangilian (which is rife whith Christian mythology), as well as Wolfenstein 3D 2: Spear of Destiny (which is rife with Nazis). No real point to my bringing this up, except to mention that nobody knows where the spear is, i it still even exists. Anyone that claims to have it is propagating a hoax.

The Jewish tale was that a statue made of clay came to life. It was indeed made to protect a city, but his power went to his head and the rabbi that made him had to dismantle him. Interestingly, it is said he could grow and learn, but not talk.

I have this though: link. In that site you can find the mythology behind all sorts of symbols and references in Castlevania (which is much more rich with them than any FF game, though they share a lot of references). Enemies, cards (Greek and Roman gods), weapons (insert Jeapordy "famous s words" joke), etc.

--------------------

M777: lightweight 155mm howitzer
3/11 rules over all artillery!

Yes, i've read all the references, oh and by the way, Tidus's weapon is called Caladbolg.

--------------------

Snaaaaaaaaake! I'm flying! Wheeeeeee!!!

Oro?

If we're going to list the references: http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/name.shtml

Just because you recognize more references from a certain culture, it doesn't mean the game is based on it (they are just references, after all). Looking at the list I just provided, the origins pretty much equal out.
If you want to "base" a FF game off of a specific culture, it would be done by analyzing the story and not by counting the references. FFVII has more of a Buddhist pull on it than Norse, and FFIV is more generic Medeival Europe than based on a specific piece of literature.

--------------------

"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer