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What would you change about FF4?

Posted: 26th February 2005 17:17

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blink.gif

I wish I had known that.

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Posted: 26th February 2005 18:09

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God, do you people even read the instructions that come with your games? :/ First we have people complaining about how the row/order system was too hard to understand, and it turns out being explained in the manual. Then we have people complaining about how you can't select how many items to buy in a shop, and it's in the manual.

Honestly now... smile.gif The manual even came with a strategy guide for the first half of the game, until you go to the underground. The manual is your god.

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Posted: 26th February 2005 20:06

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Quote (Silverlance @ 26th February 2005 13:09)
Honestly now... smile.gif The manual even came with a strategy guide for the first half of the game, until you go to the underground. The manual is your god.

Two reasons this makes no difference to me:

1. I've only played it extensively on PS1.
2. My SNES cart didn't come with a manual.

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Posted: 6th March 2005 05:13

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I didn't like the game's bland characters, but I like the storyline. Otherwise, it's pretty bad. The spells should be learnable some other way, that's for sure.

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Posted: 6th March 2005 16:46

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Quote (Blizzard_Wizard8 @ 6th March 2005 00:13)
I didn't like the game's bland characters (...) the spells should be learnable some other way, that's for sure.

Whaaa? Though I understand the concept of "different opinions," the game provided a solid amount of developement for all characters, particularly the main character (who served as a basis for most of the storyline.) Adding Kain's betrayal-then-guilt-and-self-doubting leading up to the scene in the ending, Rydia's growth from frightened-child to powerful-caller, Edge's feelings over his parents' demise and Rydia, even Golbez's relation to Cecil and the Lunarians, there's hardly anything bland and underdevelopped about the characters...

As for the spells, can you explain what you mean? Spells could either be learned in battle or through finding some of them (mainly summons.) What more could you want? tongue.gif A magic shop?

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Posted: 6th March 2005 22:07

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Quote (Blizzard_Wizard8 @ 6th March 2005 00:13)
I didn't like the game's bland characters, but I like the storyline. Otherwise, it's pretty bad. The spells should be learnable some other way, that's for sure.

Oddly enough, I actually liked how FFIV (and Pokemon as well, come to think of it) had spell-learning with leveling up. Maybe a system like this could be abused by players leveling to insane extents at the beginning of the game, but I know I wouldn't do that because that would kill the fun of the game.

I never preferred buying magic (FFI-III&V) or equipping materia (FFVII) or learning skills and spells from equipment (FFTA).

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Posted: 6th March 2005 23:05

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Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 6th March 2005 17:07)
Maybe a system like this could be abused by players leveling to insane extents at the beginning of the game, but I know I wouldn't do that because that would kill the fun of the game.

Of course, if you're level 99 at the start of the game, it hardly matters which spells you've learned or not anymore. wink.gif

Personally, I felt it was way better than Square's other attempts at spell systems. Anything that allows everyone to learn the same stuff strips away a very important part of your characters' individuality. Especially if you don't give them unique skills, like FF7: limit breaks were nearly the only "real" difference between two characters in battle because you could just as easily turn, say, Aeris into a fighter-type character by making her master offensive commands as you could make Cloud into a healer by making him master healing-type materias and loading him up with cure spells.

Well hey, to each their own. smile.gif

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Posted: 7th March 2005 04:19

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In the remake on the PSX, get rid of all those new items that can be used in combat. They just take up space, and discarding items in this game is tedious. Plus, a limited inventory has no room for those useless items that no one uses. If I didn't need them on the SNES, I don't need them now.

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Posted: 7th March 2005 05:17

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Not a damn thing. happy.gif

Oh, except for in towns when you would get stuck behind a person and it would take like fifteen seconds of constant flailing before they would get out of your way. I wish you could have just phased through them or something.

But besides that, not a damn thing. happy.gif

This post has been edited by L. Cully on 7th March 2005 05:17

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Posted: 8th March 2005 03:08

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Quote (Silverlance @ 6th March 2005 18:05)
Personally, I felt it was way better than Square's other attempts at spell systems. Anything that allows everyone to learn the same stuff strips away a very important part of your characters' individuality. Especially if you don't give them unique skills, like FF7: limit breaks were nearly the only "real" difference between two characters in battle because you could just as easily turn, say, Aeris into a fighter-type character by making her master offensive commands as you could make Cloud into a healer by making him master healing-type materias and loading him up with cure spells.

Exactly. A character's performance in battle could be related/metaphor for their personality.
Look at Gilbert - Sub-par fighter and a coward in battle, weak-willed and cowardly character.
Then look at Cain - somewhat decent fighter, most useful aspect keeps him out of danger, endangering his comrades slightly more, and always falling just short of Cecil.

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 6th March 2005 17:07)
Maybe a system like this could be abused by players leveling to insane extents at the beginning of the game, but I know I wouldn't do that because that would kill the fun of the game.

It's alot easier to abuse Materia than it is to max level on the first map of a game.

Quote (Racthoh @ 6th March 2005 23:19)
In the remake on the PSX, get rid of all those new items that can be used in combat. They just take up space, and discarding items in this game is tedious. Plus, a limited inventory has no room for those useless items that no one uses. If I didn't need them on the SNES, I don't need them now.

The difference was in IIus, Ethers and Tents were more common (and I think cheaper), so being sure to save MP wasn't as much of an issue.

Quote (L. Cully @ 7th March 2005 00:17)
Not a damn thing.  happy.gif

Oh, except for in towns when you would get stuck behind a person and it would take like fifteen seconds of constant flailing before they would get out of your way.  I wish you could have just phased through them or something.

But besides that, not a damn thing.  happy.gif

Yes! Like when you try going in the Toroia Pub

This post has been edited by Dark Paladin on 8th March 2005 03:09

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Posted: 8th March 2005 03:17

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FF IV's system completely heterogenized its characters, which is probably more good than bad, but still not great. In such a system, the only character customization at all is with equipment, leaving the rest of the game's character advancement the same as any exercise in leveling up. I don't think FF IV did anything wrong with their system, though, because that much of a change to such a landmark project probably would have been too much too soon. That's why my favorite FF battle/custom systems are those of FF IX and FF VI. They allow characters to be sufficiently heterogenous while also allowing characters a healthy degree of self-customization; a happy medium is always the best bet.

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Posted: 15th March 2005 03:08

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What would I change? Hehe, everything about the game.

I'd change the fighting system to Secret of Mana's. Because SOM and SOM2 kind of had all the weapons you could use in FFII/FFVI, except the harp and wrench.

I'd also change the character heights, I think an annoying short main character like in Full Metal Alchemist is the way to go. Make him short, annoying (to the other characters), and have high attack power.

So Cecil should be 5'4", the ideal height if you want him to be the short annoying type.

Rosa should be 5'9", I see this as the ideal height of a great woman. (I don't know why, but you expect women of high importance to be kinda taller than 5'6").

Rydia as a child should be 4'0", only because that seemed to be ideal for a girl in Europe at age 7 to 9. Think of it like this 4'0" at 7, 4'2" at 8, 4'4" at 9, 4'6" at 10, 4'9" at 11, 5'0" at 12, 5'5" at 13, 5'7" at 14 and finishing up 5'10" at 18. Makes sense because most girls have a growth spurt at age 11-14.

Rydia should therefore be 5'10" as an adult, this from the shock on her developement. I'd just thought it would be more realistic. Too many short girls, add when I mean short I mean below 5'11", which is average height is quite annoying.

I say Palom and Porom should be 10 years old, mainly because 6 is the age where someone takes into the reality of death and so on. I know Japanese don't have the concept of certain things, like women shouldn't be second in society and so on.

Palom should be an inch taller than Porom, only because of the age.

Palom should be 4'5"

and Porom should be 4'4"

I'd keep Edward (Gilbert) at the same height and he should have died off.

I'd make Yang 6'2" (More of that great fighter height area) 6'1" to 6'4" and he should have died off.

Tellah should be the same as he is.

Cid can be any height, it really doesn't matter and he should have died on Goblez's air fortress along with Tellah.

Anna could easily be added in to the party, she shouldn't have died off. Infact you could have a girl that looks exactly like Anna be killed and Tellah being the old moron that he is mistakens her for his daughter and bashes right out to a bard he spots in the distance that is really is daughter in disquise. It would make more sense that she had simply ran away from him and had gone to Damcyan. Tellah had followed her, but happened to have forgotten what he was doing, so he came up with the idea that he was suppose to be guarding the entrance to the tunnel. And then when Cecil starts talking about Rosa, Tellah then realizes about his daughter and what he was suppose to be doing. When Anna reveals herself, Tellah finally stops bashing at her and then contend to the ordeal that has been going on. Tellah (still furious) declares that with his superior magic qualities he will go out and stop Goblez. Rydia calls the old Geizer "Senile" after he leaves and Anna then notices that Tellah has left her again. Cecil then asks for her assistance on finding the cure for Rosa and Anna assists.

I'd make Anna a Bard/Blue Mage that uses a mace for a weapon.



This post has been edited by Evil_Ninja on 15th March 2005 03:39
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Posted: 15th March 2005 06:25

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Quote (Evil_Ninja @ 14th March 2005 22:08)
I'd also change the character heights, I think an annoying short main character like in Full Metal Alchemist is the way to go. Make him short, annoying (to the other characters), and have high attack power.

That worked in FMA for a cheap running gag, but that doesn't mean it would work in all stories

Quote (Evil_Ninja @ 14th March 2005 22:08)
I say Palom and Porom should be 10 years old, mainly because 6 is the age where someone takes into the reality of death and so on. I know Japanese don't have the concept of certain things, like women shouldn't be second in society and so on.

...
Do what now?

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Posted: 15th March 2005 15:24

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Quote (Evil_Ninja @ 14th March 2005 22:08)
What would I change? Hehe, everything about the game.

Your post should have ended here. Everything that follows is pretty much a deranged mind's whims playing out in text form. Turn FF IV in to Secret of Mana's gameplay with Fullmetal Alchemist's main character and add an entirely new character that dies early in the game? Ummm... stick to your other thread.

Oh, and so I don't turn my post in to just an Evil_Ninja bashfest, I'll add one:

This has probably been addressed already, but I think that Tellah's 90 MP limit is silly. I understand it's to prevent him from using Meteo until his
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
dramatic death scene
, but I would have much prefered that Meteo simply be disabled and Tellah's MP be something a little more normal, so I could at least cast third level black magic more than three times before a refill.

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Posted: 16th March 2005 03:29

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Actually, I would have liked to see Palom and Porom be older. They struck me as being closer to ten or eleven. I mean, I know its an anime cliche for any main character under 13 to be a super genius, but five years old is pushing it. At that age, its doubtful they have any real sesen of maturity or responsiblity, let alone control and discipline over there powers. We don't even go to kindergarden until we're six, usually.

At 7 years old, Kid Rydia was about the limit, and I liked how they handled her: she was scared and easily influenced, and didn't fully have control over her powers at the time she was introduced.

Teenagers at least have enough life experience and frame of reference to understand what they're going through and discipline themselves in using the amazing powers they obtain throughout their journey (and too, the journey itself is a symbolic transition from childhood to adulthood, which is what being a teenager is more or less about, so it correlates).

Granted, though, its an alternate universe, and an unrealistic one to begin with but still, its a minor thing that bugs me if I don't suspend my disbelief.

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Posted: 30th March 2005 19:53

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There really isn't anything I would change about the game except maybe one thing. Have Rosa hook up with Kain at the end of the game instead of Cecil. Of course, this would make no sense but I liked Kain more then Cecil haha.

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Posted: 30th March 2005 20:15

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What I'd change about FF2US/FF4J:

- Improve that Row and Order.. It's confusing and stupid especially in battle.

- The pause command... Sometimes two strikes happens when you press pause (I hope you know what I'm trying to mean tongue.gif)

- Remake Cecil's Paladin Look, and give him a "Holy Sword" command (Like on Tactics for Agrias, Orlandu, and Delita.)...

- Mini games!

-Change the battlesystem and make it turn based like FFIIIj.

That's all!!
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Posted: 31st March 2005 05:47

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Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Improve that Row and Order.. It's confusing and stupid especially in battle.

Put your fighters in the front and mages in the back. How hard is that?
I find it better than the other FFs' systems. FFIV gives actual meaning to battle formation. How can you put everyone in the back row without having a front row? And how does putting one person on the end of the battle line (have the line going front-rear-rear-rear) make it harder for the enemy to hit someone at the opposite end of the line?

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
The pause command... Sometimes two strikes happens when you press pause (I hope you know what I'm trying to mean tongue.gif)

When you press pause, the ATB stops filling, and everyone whose commands have been entered perform their command.

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Remake Cecil's Paladin Look, and give him a "Holy Sword" command (Like on Tactics for Agrias, Orlandu, and Delita.)...

Cecil's design can't realy be argued, because that is the only thing that is pure opinion based.
They did give him a "Holy Sword" technique - Cover. Think about the contrast between a Dark Knight and a Paladin. The Dark Wave is a "victory at any cost" technique. Cover is meant ensure survival of your allies.

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Mini games!

Yes! It should be just like FFX-2!

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Change the battlesystem and make it turn based like FFIIIj.

ATB was a major step forward in how RPGs are played, first implemented here.

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Posted: 31st March 2005 06:31

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Seriously, Thank you DP cause that was ridicolous. You did what I wanted to.

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Posted: 31st March 2005 13:36

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Quote (Dark Paladin @ 31st March 2005 00:47)
Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Improve that Row and Order.. It's confusing and stupid especially in battle.

Put your fighters in the front and mages in the back. How hard is that?
I find it better than the other FFs' systems. FFIV gives actual meaning to battle formation. How can you put everyone in the back row without having a front row? And how does putting one person on the end of the battle line (have the line going front-rear-rear-rear) make it harder for the enemy to hit someone at the opposite end of the line?

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
The pause command... Sometimes two strikes happens when you press pause (I hope you know what I'm trying to mean tongue.gif)

When you press pause, the ATB stops filling, and everyone whose commands have been entered perform their command.

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Remake Cecil's Paladin Look, and give him a "Holy Sword" command (Like on Tactics for Agrias, Orlandu, and Delita.)...

Cecil's design can't realy be argued, because that is the only thing that is pure opinion based.
They did give him a "Holy Sword" technique - Cover. Think about the contrast between a Dark Knight and a Paladin. The Dark Wave is a "victory at any cost" technique. Cover is meant ensure survival of your allies.

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Mini games!

Yes! It should be just like FFX-2!

Quote (LockewithCeles @ 30th March 2005 15:15)
Change the battlesystem and make it turn based like FFIIIj.

ATB was a major step forward in how RPGs are played, first implemented here.

1. Row and Order

I agree with what Dark Paladin says about how FFIV gives meaning to row and order. However, I will say that using the system isn't the most intuitive thing, considering how, despite the little "schoolhouse" you find in towns, you're never told (in the game) what Change and Row on the menu mean, and incoming characters by default fill up the front row first, before filling up the back row. Hence, imagine my fun time keeping Rydia alive the first time I've played it. (This is actually one reason why I would recommend FFIV only to experienced or enthusiastic RPG players, as opposed to beginners.)

2. The Pause Command

Interestingly, there was a question about implementing an emergency stop command in a hydraulic (fluid-based) system of switches in this engineering summer class I took back in the days of high school. I answered it by designing an emergency stop system that would prevent any incoming commands from being executed, which is basically what hitting pause does in an FFIV battle. However, I didn't get full marks for my answer.

Why? Because I didn't stop whatever was already going on. If a switch were moving, and a person were stuck in it, then the person would still get smashed. Of course, this isn't that important in a videogame, but the difference between FFVI's pause and FFIV's pause is exactly that. FFIV's pause simply stops time for new command inputs (either by the player or by the game's AI (or lack thereof) for the enemies), but finishes the ones already in. FFVI's pause is actually a true pause in the sense that everything stops (even if we're in the middle of an attack animation, if I recall correctly).

3. Holy Sword

While you do have a point, DP, I believe LockewithCeles was referring to something along the lines of FFV's Mystic Knight's MagicSwd ability to 'attach' Holy to a weapon. However, considering that practically all of Cecil's paladin swords are holy-elemental already, and that he has an extremely high attack power anyways, I doubt that this would really add anything to the gameplay. Maybe if it were a Dark-Wave-like attack that hit more than one target...but still, Cecil is pretty darn strong defensively and endurance-wise as a Paladin, and it really wouldn't add much to the game.

4. Mini games!

No comment on minigames themselves.

On the other hand, certain sidequests, such as finding an item for unstoning the twins (as opposed to just having rumours flying around) would have been nice.

5. ATB

I personally prefer ATB as well.

......and one more thing...

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Posted: 31st March 2005 20:25

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As somebody who beat the game before they were 10, I just have to say:
I don't understand how anybody could find the mechanics of this game confusing in any way, shape, or form. It's all very straightforward, and they even balance the party so you always have characters that belong in the front, and in the back. Even your final party is designed for the system.

The only questions this game ever left me were plot questions, and there's only one.

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Posted: 1st April 2005 00:24

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I would just prefer they change the styles of characters. FuSoYa and Tellah are basically the same characters, but with different backgrounds. Plus, putting all the female characters as spellcasters is pretty sexist. The Row/Order system is crap because you must put at least two people in front row. At Mt. Hobs, I had to put Edward, Rydia, and Rosa in the back row so they wouldn't take so much damage. Between Underworld and Tower of Zot you have 4 front-row fighters, but only 1 back-row fighter. That's the only part where this actually happens. I think the reason is because in FFs I tend to put the main character first and then romantic interest next to them(Cecil-Rosa, Locke-Celes, Zidane-Dagger, Squall-Rinoa, Butz-Reina).

This post has been edited by Blizzard_Wizard8 on 3rd April 2005 19:38

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Posted: 1st April 2005 09:37

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I really don't understand the immense disdain so many people have for the row/order system.... It's pretty simple, and though it might not have been directly spoonfed to you, it should have been easy to figure out with just a few button-presses.

There's only one time in the game (Giant of Bab-il) when you have more "back-row" people than "front row" people, in which case you just flip the order around. Like basketball. You just run a 2-3 zone instead of a 3-2 zone. It's March, I'm obsessed, sorry. It's not like you ever have 4 mages and only 1 fighter at a time, it all fits into the system perfectly, it's just a system that incorporates a little true strategy, which is a good thing.

And like DP said, the point of rows is having strong people in the front with weak people being protected behind---if everyone's in the back row, isn't that essentially the same as everyone being in the front row? Strategically there's no advantage in safety, 3 feet shouldn't cut damage in half.

This post has been edited by imperialstooge on 1st April 2005 09:38
Post #78543
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Posted: 1st April 2005 13:12

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Cetra
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I can't believe nobody had the presence of mind to, put bluntly, RTFM. Row/Order was explained quite properly there. Yet people still pass off their own inattention and lazyness as a flaw of the game itself. Sorry people, the world does not hand you answers on a silver platter every time; you have to settle with bronze every once in a while and make the tinest of effort to either consult the in-game tutorial (which occures before the first actual battle) or read the manual (even if lost, the tutorial alternative is still there.)

'Course, it's not like it's as unrealistic as FF6e's where magically, your party is protected if EVERYONE takes a step back with nobody to cover them in the front. And it's not as though people don't complain when a system is unrealstic. But people hardly ever settle on what they want. wink.gif

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Post #78552
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Posted: 1st April 2005 20:46

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Cactuar
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Quote
I would have liked to have the option to not become a Paladin, even if it meant that Cecil would be useless agaisnt Golbez. I [probably woulda done it anyways, but I'd really prefer to have a choice.


Ditto

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This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 1st April 2005 21:16

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Post #78604
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Posted: 2nd April 2005 04:35

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Cetra
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Quote (Blizzard_Wizard8 @ 31st March 2005 19:24)
I would just prefer they change the styles of characters. FuSoYa and Tellah are basically the same characters, but with different backgrounds.

Not really. Their personalities and histories are drastically different; in-battle, FuSoYa is like an effective Tella, if you want to compare.

Quote (Blizzard_Wizard8 @ 31st March 2005 19:24)
Plus, putting all the female characters as spellcasters is pretty sexist.

Biiiiiiig eye roll.

Quote (Blizzard_Wizard8 @ 31st March 2005 19:24)
The Row/Order system is crap because you must put at least two people in front row. At Mt. Hobs, I had to put Edward, Rydia, and Rosa in the back row so they wouldn't take so much damage.

Putting characters where they go doesn't make the system crap.
Being unable to put everyone in the back has little, if nothing, to do with certain characters' defensive shortcomings.

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Posted: 3rd April 2005 06:04

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SOLDIER
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I disagree about the Paladin/No Paladin option. It's the heart of the game and holds the story together -- for example, at the end where
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
Golbez tries to kill Zemus. He can't do it because he's essentially a mega-powerful Dark Knight.


Whereas Cecil can, because of the decision he made. It messes up his characterization completely if he stays a Dark Knight, and the whole light/dark theme gets messed up too.

Although I can see where you're coming from. Things like Dark Wave were pretty cool in the beginning -- but, you know, got really useless towards the end. And I can't tell you how Cecil's auto-protect, in addition to being completely in line with his character, completely saved my tuchis on many an occasion. happy.gif

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Post #78830
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Posted: 4th April 2005 17:51

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Chimera
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I think the reason I had never made a post in this topic before is that I felt that next to nothing could be done to improve the game....

but

The only thing(s) I could think to change about the game (at least the American FFII version which I own): closer translation to the Japanese version, 'hardtype', some of the items from hardtype, and an overall longer game.

The first two items listed should be pretty obvious to FFIV fans. In regards to only some of the 'hardtype' items being used, I thought that there were too many items and some of them were almost inconsequential (in the Japanese hardtype game). I'd bring in more specific healing items (ie maiden's kiss, etc) and up the price of the cureall 'heal' item. It would have been nice if the game had been longer (especially compared to some of the other FFs). A few more optional side quests or more obstacles would have done the trick. This would have also given more opportunity to get to know the characters more.

Kame - A faithful FFIV/FFIIus fan now in her 14th yr of playing it.

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Post #78993
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Posted: 10th October 2005 02:08

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Holy Swordsman
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i found it funny that cecil uses the spell items at the beginning of the game (in the airship) and theyre never in the game again(in easytype)

when i was younger, id always search for them, to no avail biggrin.gif of course, i think theyre quite useful at times.

just to comment at zeromus being the final boss-if it hasnt been said before- having a final boss that isnt a human like character, instead being an "epidemy of evil" type of thing gives the story a more epic feel.

like, i would have loved ff 7 better if jenova were the final boss instead of sephy, because you dont really know jenova, it be easier to think of them as an enemy...did that make sense? sometimes i have a hard time typing what i think...
like...if you fought someone you knew, youd have a hard time fighting them, but if you fought someone youve never met, itd be easier...

bleh, i hope that made sense tongue.gif

but, i dont think thered be anything to change in this game, as its one of my favorites.(besides 6)

add on: and yet another comment, i think edge is important, since he can steal the dark matter in hardtype. i never noticed the difference, big bang seems to do alot no matter what, at least to me it seemed...

oh yeah, yet another thought, i liked necron(since hes like alot of the classic ff final bosses) i never liked kuja that much... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 10th October 2005 02:10

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Post #99084
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Posted: 10th October 2005 02:24
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Holy Swordsman
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I don't think I'd change much. The only complaints I have involve the opacity of the combat system--it's difficult to tell when someone is hasted, slowed, etc., especially if they're a monster. You're not always sure if what you're doing is having an effect. I prefer the systems in the later games, where there's some marker for each status ailment.

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