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OK, ye be warned if ye haven't made it to the end of the game--turn back now. Here be spoilers.

Now, I've got my own personal theories as to what the "tiers" in each stage of the Kefka battle stand for.

We know that the designers loved Dante; look at all the demons in FF4 who were named after it.

My theory is that the 4 tiers represent the 4 stages of Dante's journey, seen in The Divine Comedy, as reinterpreted through Kefka's twisted brilliance.

First, he goes to Hell. The first tier is an evil, demonic looking thing.

Second, he goes to Purgatory, which was still on Earth (Mount Purgatorio). The second tier is comprised of a mass of suffering, twisted living things.

Third, he goes to Heaven. The third tier is a couple of angelic looking beings who seem unconcerned or unaware of the suffering below them.

Finally, he meets God. Of course, Kefka views himself as God.

What do you think?

This post has been edited by Thanos6 on 10th March 2005 20:15

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SuperHeroChat

Square *definately* intended for a religious theme in the final battle. The music is based on gregorian chants accompanied with organs and choirs, and Kefka's appearance as an angel really leaves little doubt.

A good while ago, somebody started a topic at GameFAQs which was purged later (keeping all topics around is a GREAT feature from CoN....or Invision Power Boards anyway ), in which somebody linked to the Kefka article on Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia. The article can be found here.

Personally, I don't think the first three stages of the final battle actually *represent* anything. The second tier, consisting out of the monsters Tiger, Hit, Magic and Tools can more or less represent four significant part of FF VI's battle system (resp. monster magic (Rage, Lore, Sketch, Control), physical attacks (SwdTech, Jump, etc.), Magic and stuff like Throw and Tools which make use of additional utilities.

The interesting question is Kefka' purpose and what he represents. The article I linked to claims he's an angel of death, but I think that Kefka more leans towards the chaotic role of Loki in Norse Mythology.

It should be noted that Square once said that the three battles where Godess reincarnations, but that's a theory that only depends on the fact that there happen to be both three Godesses and three stages before Kefka.

Edit

Edit: I'm interested in your claim that FF V houses so many Dante references. The game obviously throws links to Norse and Mesopotamian mythology, Christianity, Islam and Judaism all around, without giving so much as a thought to borrow more then the names (there's no system or symbolism in the names if you pay attention to them, they're just stolen because they sound cool). I doubt the Japanese game designers (or Ted Woolsey, translator) would be too concerned with an Italian poet.

They *did* create a monster called Dante, I'll give you that

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 10th March 2005 21:09

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

I said FF4. The Four Elemental Fiends in that game were all named after demons from The Divine Comedy.

And that Kefka article? I helped write it.

This post has been edited by Thanos6 on 10th March 2005 21:18

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SuperHeroChat

Yes, I understood that. Sorry, I shouldn't have listed Ted Woolsey as, on second thought, he didn't translate number IV.

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And that Kefka article? I helped write it. 

Haha, is that so? Such coincidence.

Talking about coincidence, I read a part from Inferno only today, the part about the sowers of dischord in hell (poetic analysis), to be exact. Otherwise, I'm not familiar with Dante all that much.

If you want to talk about Dante in FF, number IV does strike me as a much more apparant example. Maybe you've discussed this earlier and wanted to try FF VI for a change, but the link between the Mountain of Purgatory and Mt. Ordeals as well as the significance of the Moon struck me. The moon is the 'lowest' sphere of Heaven and is populated by those who have abandonded their vows. Cecil, as a Dark Knight, abandaned his vow to serve the King, which indirectly led to his journey to the Moon. I know overinterpretation if I see it, and that was overinterpretation, but I can't help to notice similairities when I see them

Have you seen the GameFAQs thread, by the way?

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 10th March 2005 22:53

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

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Have you seen the GameFAQs thread, by the way?

Can't say as I have.

I haven't played all the way through FFIV (can never make it through the Tower Of Babel underground) but I definitely noticed some Dante-esque themes.

I was rereading the Comedy last night when I was struck with the idea that it might be one possible interpretation of the "Esperoid" as this board calls it; Kefka's own nihilistic view of creation.

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SuperHeroChat

Hey Thanos6, would you post a link to that Kefka article? Thanks.

Edit

Sorry mods, I know I probably could have done this in a PM.

This post has been edited by Adam on 10th March 2005 23:24

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"I will create a monument to nonexistence!!"

"The end comes ... beyond chaos."
~ Kefka, Final Fantasy VI

Quote (Adam @ 10th March 2005 18:23)

Hey Thanos6, would you post a link to that Kefka article? Thanks.

Edit

Sorry mods, I know I probably could have done this in a PM.

Read all the posts in the thread, buddy. The link is there.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Quote (Thanos6)

And that Kefka article? I helped write it.

Really? Very cool. Are you the one that noted the resemblance between tier three and Pietà? If so, mad props, as we say in the hood.

Quote (Djibriel)

It should be noted that Square once said that the three battles where Godess reincarnations, but that's a theory that only depends on the fact that there happen to be both three Godesses and three stages before Kefka.

Did Square mention it?

I remember picking up a Nintendo Power FFIII strategy guide back in the mid-90s. They actually referred to the three tiers as "Goddess II," "Doom II," and "Poltergeist II." This led to a few debates on the Gamewiz boards (long dead AOL gaming forum). The general consensus was that the naming had no basis, as the tiers bear no resemblance to the statues. Everyone at the time blamed the strategy guide for starting this "false rumor." However, maybe the strategy guide got this info from Square.

By the way Djibriel, your English is impeccable. I assumed you were from an Anglophone country until I saw the word "Dutch" in two of your posts.

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Are you the one that noted the resemblance between tier three and Pietà? If so, mad props, as we say in the hood.

I'd like to take credit for that, but I ain't THAT good.

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SuperHeroChat

But in any case there's something in that Wikipedia article saying that at least one tier may be a parody of some famous work of art--the Pieta, in particular, I remember, was mentioned.

Nevertheless, I personally didn't think the tiers were based on anything other than raw, non-referencing ideas, although I myself gave 'nicknames' to the tiers:
1st tier: 'The Demon of Kefka'
2nd tier: 'The Twisted Psyche of Kefka'
3rd tier: 'The Glory of Kefka' (<-- yes, I know, irony.)
Kefka: 'Kefka Himself: the Fallen One Re-Enthroned'

As a sidenote, the 'twisted psyche' description comes more from the music than from the monsters' names/appearances/abilities.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (MogMaster @ 10th March 2005 18:39)

Quote (Adam @ 10th March 2005 18:23)

Hey Thanos6, would you post a link to that Kefka article?  Thanks.

Edit

Sorry mods, I know I probably could have done this in a PM.

Read all the posts in the thread, buddy. The link is there.

Sometimes I wonder if I can even see my hand in front of my face ...

The idea I got from the article is that the three tiers are three different forms of Kefka himself, as much as that doesn't make sense. I like Glenn's idea, how each tier seems to represent a different facet of Kefka's demented personality.

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"I will create a monument to nonexistence!!"

"The end comes ... beyond chaos."
~ Kefka, Final Fantasy VI

I, being an expert on Kefka, believe that the tiers of Kefka are twisted, distorted froms of his psyche, as many have said before. If you look, on the second and third tiers, the human looking parts all have long, blonde hair in a pony tail.

Kefka is one screwed up villain, but that is why I love him.

What is the painting called that has God reaching down from heaven trying to touch man's hand? That is what Kefka looks like at the top of his twisted sprire of nothingness. Only, his hand isn't reaching out, it is pushing away...

This post has been edited by Kefka Palazzo on 13th March 2005 15:40

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"Why do people rebuild things they know are going to be destroyed? Why do people cling to life when they know they can't live forever? Think how meaningless each of your lives is!" ~Kefka Palazzo

Quote (Kefka Palazzo @ 13th March 2005 10:29)

If you look, on the second and third tiers, the human looking parts all have long, blonde hair in a pony tail.

Quote (Kefka Palazzo @ 13th March 2005)

What is the painting called that has God reaching down from heaven trying to touch man's hand? That is what Kefka looks like at the top of his twisted sprire of nothingness. Only, his hand isn't reaching out, it is pushing away...

For the first one: Oh my. I never noticed that. And that seems intentional, come to think of it....

For the second one: That would be the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. I'm not sure if that part has a particular name....In any case, I see your point, even though that isn't quite as obvious as your first observation.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 13th March 2005 16:55

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

I don't know about the bottom one though... it confuses me...

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"Why do people rebuild things they know are going to be destroyed? Why do people cling to life when they know they can't live forever? Think how meaningless each of your lives is!" ~Kefka Palazzo

Or you by any chance talking about Michelangelo's 'Creation of Man'?

This is it. Warning; Xtreme male nudity within

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

That seems to be the one they're talking about. A long time ago I once saw this painting of Satan in his angel form, and looking back on it now it REALLY reminded me of Kefka, though I can't find the pic or remember it's name. But it looked so awesome 'cuz of how he looked, I'm a stickler for fallen angels and god-like beings (which is why Kefka and Sephiroth are my favorite FF Villains)

This post has been edited by Bum's Rush on 14th March 2005 09:35

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Check out my DeviantArt profile! ....If you don't mind that is

Quote (Kefka Palazzo @ 13th March 2005 10:29)

If you look, on the second and third tiers, the human looking parts all have long, blonde hair in a pony tail.

True. Also, the Wikipedia article says that Kefka is supposed to replace Jesus in the Pieta tier. I buy that. Tier three does resemble Michelangelo's Pieta, and Kefka replacing Jesus fits the False God/Fallen Angel theme.

Okey dokey. Here's the way I see it. I do agree with Thanos6, in that the tiers are meant to be mockeries of the Divine Comedy.

The bottom tier is rather evil. This is a hypothesis (it's been a while since I've read Inferno), but could the bottom tier be based off of some demon Dante encountered on his little trip? I do remember demons were mentioned, but I can't remember their descriptions.

The second tier is a mockery of the Final Fantasy VI earth (hence Magic). And correct me if I'm wrong, but after looking at the picture of the second tier on the CoN Bestiary, isn't the guy in the bottom left corner kinda being crucified? Then the guy on the right sitting on the tiger... man's dominance over other creatures? Seems pretty earthy to me.

The third tier is certainly less dangerous looking than the first two. But this is where we hit a bit of a snag. The third tier is very much like Pieta. But it should be heaven. So why would the programmers suddenly switch their symbols up right in the middle of everything? Maybe the whole Pieta thing was a coincidence. Or... they used Pieta to represent heaven for some reason. Or... I don't know.

Kefka... The Ultimate Mockery. A fallen angel, much like Lucifer, now become God. I did like Kefka Palazzo's (the user not the bad guy) mention of Final Kefka's hand pushing away man. Shunning him. Despising him and being filled with contempt for him. Wanting to create an end to existence, thus bringing everything full circle. God creates everything. Everything creates Kefka. Kefka becomes God. Kefka destroys everything.

I seriously wonder how much thought the programmers put into creating the final battles. Was it anything like this? It's all a grand poem waiting to be interpreted a million different ways...

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"It is a part of human nature to be evil, and it is a part of human nature to destroy evil, therefore, when evil is destroyed, so will be the human race..."
- Atma

Quote (Atma @ 14th March 2005 19:51)

The third tier is certainly less dangerous looking than the first two. But this is where we hit a bit of a snag. The third tier is very much like Pieta. But it should be heaven. So why would the programmers suddenly switch their symbols up right in the middle of everything? Maybe the whole Pieta thing was a coincidence. Or... they used Pieta to represent heaven for some reason. Or... I don't know.

Well, as you mentioned one paragraph below, it's mockery. It's irony. It kinda foreshadows (or 'forelightens') the final battle.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Kefka: I knew you'd make it this far, so I've prepared some suitable entertainment for you!

The above quote from the game makes me wonder if they just intended those three tiers to be Kefka's creation, which would make it a "window into his mind". Filled with, as you mention, mockery and irony. Does it also seem plausible that they intended Kefka's Tower and tiers to be metaphorically linked? They're both his creations, as well as weird blends of things found in the world, one living, the other non-living. I've always felt that climbing Kefka's Tower and fighting in that tier were each akin to experiencing a strange nightmare, each with their own series of seemingly unrelated events. But all from the twisted mind of Kefka.

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Cannis Rules: Balance of Power - My favourite Yuri's Revenge Mod

Hey Matt! You've given me an idea that kinda supports the Divine Comedy Theory. If I remember correctly, Dante encounters some creatures before he enters hell. Something about a wolf... and a woman. I dunno. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Then he travels down into hell with Virgil. In FF6, you start out at the TOP of Kefka's Tower and work your way to the BOTTOM, then you ascend once again. And on your way, you encounter different creatures (the bosses, not the random encounters). Yes! Overanalyzation is the best thing ever! So much fun.

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"It is a part of human nature to be evil, and it is a part of human nature to destroy evil, therefore, when evil is destroyed, so will be the human race..."
- Atma

It's the Leopard of Malice, Lion of Violence & Ambition, and the She-wolf of Incontinence. I like that analogy, yet another nicely considered mockary of the Comedies in VI.

Probably the best was the thought of the tiers as the journey themselves. Such as second tier as Le Purgatorio, though it that case the "crucified" Hit at the bottom wouldn't have any symbolical meaning. And the bottom would be The Inferno (my personal favorite), probably the Minotaur by appearance (if Kefka is Lucifer, then the gargantua can't be).
As for the Paradiso part at the top, I can't really see a snag. That might have nothing to do with Pieta, just a random Amano like the others. And of course, Kefka the "Ultimate Mockery" is just priceless. Probably the best moment is seeing him up there all 'fallen' and whatnot. Another thing I find amusing about this is the background, it also looks to resemble the 'Creation of Man' painting, but darker, obviously representing Kefka's evil compared to what the painting was originaly made for.


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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

If only the anti-video game people could see us here, discussing the hidden meanings and symbolisms in Video games. These are the types of conversations people had in my better english classes while I was in school.

Not a legitimate art form.........
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Hi, Atma, I never put much thought into the significance of starting at the top of Kefka's Tower and actually descending into it, but now that you mention it, it does make a lot of sense. It's just another thing about this game that can be analyzed extensively

I've never read The Divine Comedy, but as a med student, I haven't really kept up with the finer arts since all of that Shakespeare and Molière we did in high school. Anyhow, I did read that GameFAQ's topic a while back and was quite impressed at all of the interpretations that can come out of a single sequence of battles in a video game. As a 12-year old back in the day, I enjoyed the two FF games, plus SoulBlazer, because of the "deeper" messages they held. When I tell people that FFIII is the most amazing game I've ever played, the ability to analyze it almost like a Shakesperean play is just one of the many, many reasons that this is so.

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