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So yesterday Giambi went down, and now it's looking like Barry Bonds is finally going down (yay!). I hope Bud Selig actually does something to step up testing. Bah, meanwhile people are still trying to cling to how "if steroids mean more home runs then it's good for the game."

Not to mention Marion Jones, and other olympic athletes who are also being taken down.

So who's on what bandwagon with the great steroid issue in professional sports?

This post has been edited by Tidu-who on 3rd December 2004 07:21

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

Good for the league.

What they need, though, is to break some (if not most) of the player's union's power so they can't use their muscle to force issues like this.

Me, personally, steroids are bad in more ways than one... first, they damage your heart and stuff, two, they give you a false edge, and three... that just ain't fair to the straight folk.

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~Status Report~

* Completed... Dragon's Head
* Completed... Soldiers of the Empire: Disciples (release pending)
* In Progress/Undecided... Of Love and Betrayal
* Planning/Assembly... Where it all Began

And four it shrinks guys genatalia. Steriods have bad long term effects as Zephir pointed out. Funny how they got Marion Jones when they got her husband back in 2000 whatever his name is. If an athlete does well I clap, if they have to use drugs I shake my head.

Most of you think that I'm going to defend the Yankee slugger, but the fact is I never like Giambi, as many Yankee fans don't (for one, he replaced Tino. We loved Tino, dammit!). If they can void his contract because of this, look for me to be giddy with delight.

The whole steroid thing is BS. The greatest players in the game never used steroids. And I find that it'll be unfair, illlegal, and just plain wrong for a player who's juiced up to be in the same category as the Hank Aarons and Babe Ruths (Yes, I am talking about a certain Bonds).

Speaking of, Bonds is all but indited on this case. So far, two of the three players who testified in that BALCO trial last year admitted to using steroids (with Gary Sheffield unbeknowedst to it). And Giambi's testimony points yet another big red arrow at Bonds.
I never believed Barry Bonds when he said he never did steroids. When you look at his 2000 picture and then him today, you'll notice a very noticable gerth difference. He swears it's because he trains everyday, but come on... not in that span of time can you see that big of a difference.

Hank Aaron hit 755 home runs in the span of his career, and he was still a skinny rail during all of them, so it was more than abundantly clear that he achieved this record by talent and will alone. Is it fair that someone on more than his talent alone could break this record?

If found that he's guilty, which would be the bigger blow to baseball: Bonds on steroids or Pete Rose betting on baseball?

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

If the MLB and NBA players associations could model themselves more like the NFL players association, things like steroid testing regulations would flow alot smoother.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

Even if they do develop more advanced screening methods to test for steroids, there're still other ways to artificially enhance your ability. For example, although I forgot the exact details, I once heard at my internship in a genetics lab that it was possible to like inject the subject with a "virus" to change its genes and make it stronger. The virus, however, contains no malignant data since it was all drawn out and replaced with a man-made code. Anyways, there is no way to detect it and it is very effective. If steroids and all the players who use them are banned, then what if players decide to do this new method? Wouldn't that be just as bad, if not worse?

Anyways, as for the actual question of this topic, I'd say I'm definitely against steroids. The players should rely on their natural skill and build only...artificially enhancing yourself to play better is unsportsmanlike, and really takes all the fun out of sports. You could pick anybody off the streets, give him huge amounts of steroids and such and then teach him how to hit a ball, and he'd be an all-star. PLayers who use steroids really take away from players who are truly great players. It's similar to an imbecile cheating in Math class and getting a 99 average, whereas the real geniouses get a mere 97 or 98 because they were honest (I have personal experience with such examples). Anyways, there's my little rant.

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Is PJ

Here's a straight-edge guy answering.... well, I don't need to say anything else do?

I just hope that drug (virus or whatever e;se) detection tech. can keep up with the evil cheating scientists, with their white hair all sticking up....

... and I think Pete Rose's betting is nowhere near as much as an embarassment than steroids are.

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Get me off this Disciplinary Committee so I can play any FF except for FF8!!!

There's no way to test for it, I'm afraid. It changes their genes, IIRC, and there's no way to do that unless you knew the exact base pair sequence of each player's DNA (which, if written in Microsoft Word at size 8, single spaced, would fill and entire filing cabinet full of pages). Basically, it'd cost too much money for the MLB (or whatever other sport) to spend.

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Is PJ

Well Bonds/Giambi took "The clear", which is undetectable in addition to other chemicals like a women's infertility drug or something so all of it would be undetectable. It's the paperwork and testifying that brings you down.

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

Quote (MorgueN @ 3rd December 2004 05:28)

And four it shrinks guys genatalia.

Yeah. Because that's worse than whatever organ failures and cancers steroids can cause.

I don't really follow sports (competetions or "Off the field" news), but I do feel strongly about the steroid issue.
I dislike how a person can be good at something as insignificant as sports and be able to get rich and famous from it. But it's far worse that just anyone can do it if they aren't even any good at the sport on their own. People should advance or fall behind based on their own merits, not because they decided to destroy their bodies for a false improvement.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote

I dislike how a person can be good at something as insignificant as sports and be able to get rich and famous from it.

I feel the same way about sports and entertainment. They get paid massive sums of money just to go out and play baseball or whatever sport they play, and sometimes they don't even play during the game (take pitchers for example...they can sit a game out and still make $20,000 just for being there). What's even worse is when players refuse a contract because they aren't being paid enough, when the offer is as high as like $25 million dollars. That is just disgusting. I say cut all the player's salaries by 20% and use the money to end national debt (I know it's nowhere near enough, but do you get the point? The money could be used for much better things).

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Is PJ

i hate steroids, and anybody who uses them
they are the worst steroids do more harm than good;
Most common downsides:
they make men more feminine(even with increased strength) the genitals shrink, while the mammery glands grow
they make women more masculine *shudders*
they cause tumors
they cause both suicide and homicide
and steroids put you through puberty again
Only upside:
increased strength

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

OMG, Where's Gabe when you need him?!

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"My impersonation of an ordinary person was flawless." - Neal

"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss

Quote (Hanyou @ 4th December 2004 01:51)

OMG, Where's Gabe when you need him?!

Motion definately seconded



Good. I didn't like bonds anyways.

Long live Hank Aaron.

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

yea, talking about trading a nice good body for increased strength is so not right at all! I wish that they would just ban steroids for their use.

Quote

Bah, meanwhile people are still trying to cling to how "if steroids mean more home runs then it's good for the game."

If that was the case, the MLB should just let players use aluminum bats. Ding! The regular game of baseball is not a home run derby, and anyone who thinks it should be is essentially abandoning 90% of the game. I'd rather see consistant singles, doubles, triples and fast base running from real athletes than big egos puffed up on steroids who can't run and strike out most of the time swinging for the fences.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Science and chemistry can accomplish a good many things, but it's unfortunate that so many athletes in various sports are willing to trade their own well-being for the kind of strength that should be earned through honest, good old fashioned work. As a person who is very interested in physical fitness myself, I find it difficult to sympathize with people who take steroids as a replacement for discipline and fair play.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

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~T.S. Eliot

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~ Bruce Lee

Quote (Sabin @ 3rd December 2004 12:32)

If found that he's guilty, which would be the bigger blow to baseball: Bonds on steroids or Pete Rose betting on baseball?

That's not even a close call in my book. Pete Rose made a mockery of his career and perhaps his team, but the steroids issue is destroying baseball. I used to be a huge baseball fan, and I mean huge, until I started learning about steroids (and the no salary cap issue, but that's a different thread altogether). It tarnishes every home run, every win, every aspect of the game, because the testing is such bullshit that more than half the league could be using them and no one would know. To watch guys like Bonds (who used to be a personal favorite of mine, back with Bonilla in Pittsburgh) and Gonzalez and countless others go from skinny little rails to buff powerhouses in a matter of months is disgusting. Seriously, if you didn't know Bonds before he went to San Fransisco, you wouln't recognize footage of him in Pitt. And now with Bonds on pace to surpass Aaron soon, it does a lot more than reveal Bonds to be an ass. It screws with baseball history. 20 years from now, Aaron's record will be a drop in the bucket. He'll be like 50th all time. Maris' once untouchable record is already a joke. No one will care about Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle, or even know what Bonds might have been capable of on his own. He was an amazing athlete before he started chasing the record, after all. All this crap with "performance enhancers" will never end, because now the up and coming generation feels like they need to take them just to have a shot at the big leagues anymore. It's a cycle that can't be stopped, and in my opinion, will go down in history as the downfall of America's Favorite Pasttime.

Yay for football.

Steroids stink, period. Anybody who takes them is a blind, drunken monkey on crack (and steroids ).

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"No matter what happens, I will always be with you... forever." ---- Pocahontas, Pocahontas

"Only those who are already at the top are rewarded without trying."----- Delita Hyral, Final Fantasy Tactics

http://www.ffshrine.org/fft/fft-midi/1-42-back_fire01.mid ---- My favorite FFT battle song

I'm sorry to revive a dead topic but I do have something new to post, trust me on that.

Well, I'm on the same bandwagon as everybody else apearntly. Steriod's = bad. It is unfair to give yourself an unatural advantage. Not only to those who are already playing professionaly but to those who have dreams of doing so. The odds are slim to none for allot of those said people to get into professional sports, now they have to compete with suped up superstars? Realy not good at all.

Anyways, I'm not realy much of a sports person but I do come across them randomly from time to time. Last night was one such incident when I stumbled across this on the news last night. Stricter rules on steriods for all players, yay.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 14th January 2005 16:24

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Role reversal at its finest.

Let's put it this way.

You could compare the use of steroids to win to using a game-making program such as RPGMaker2000 to create a game instead of doing it the real way and coding it from the ground-up yourself.

The cookie-cutter tool-created game could turn out being very nice. From a developper's perspective, it involves having only to focus on resources and content, not worrying about bugs and the likes. Thus, less time needs to be spent tweaking things and less effort is required.

However, the real thing involves a lot of effort. Hard work, learning new things, studying programming languages and concepts, and basically giving it all you've got. It's definitely not a free ride, and takes quite a bit of determination to pull off if you're going for something that'll stand out.

So why should people waste their time working with a programming language? Because the end results are far, far more impressive. Go ahead and put that RM2k game you made in your resum‚ and see if anyone'll give a hoot. It's not impressive. At all. Now put your C++ 2D RPG built with SDL in there, and you might start raising interest quite a bit. On top of that, when you program something, you learn how the game engine works to your advantage because you wrote it. You benefit permanently from the new knowledge you've acquired learning how to pull it off. With a tool like RM2k, you learn nothing. It just makes you lazier.

Draw your own parallels.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Well put Silverlance. I never thought a connection could be drawn between the use of steriods in professional sports and a software program to make games like RPGMaker2000 (which has somewhat made me lazy as you said ).

Personally I think the steroid issue has to be dealt with. If guys 50 years ago didn't need them (and yet they were still excellent players as far as I'm concerned) then there is no need for them today. Same with all of the advertisements in hockey games. Every watch an old hockey game? The boards are white, no advertising what so ever. The point is that as time goes on people will find a way to cheat out of anything they can. Everything will become corrupted in time. It's a sad truth.

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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel876/homepage.html

It's all about money and power. I say I should be elected as president of Earth and people would submit to living their lives out as my servants. Disobidience would result in a savage (but humane, ya dang activists...) beating. Everyone would be given a small 3x3x3 cube to live in, and a slice of bread and a small cup of water everyday.

Problem solved.

Oh yeah, there'd be steroids in the water.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

When you say 3x3x3, do you mean feet, meters... because I'd like to know how much room I have for my video games when I move into my isolated habitat.

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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel876/homepage.html

Feet. I may be canadian, but that doesn't stop me from being a bastard, either.

There'll be large 80x80x10 feet closets connected to the 3x3x3 cubes, though. I suppose people could live in them, then we could make a bunch of jokes about coming out of the closet, but yeah. 3x3x3 cubes. No more, no less.

Steroids aren't the only threat, though. There are tons of illegal ways to get a performance boost. I guess steroids means "illegal hardware-enhancing drugs in general" to most people though, so yeah...

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."