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I have a question, though it might be trivial to answer if my memory serves me wrong.

In FF6, I distinctly recall references to the three statues also called the three goddesses. After all, they weren't always statues (again, if memory servers me right) and before, they were called the three goddesses.

Now if that part is true, here's what confuses and confounds me.

Why is one of the Goddesses' name... Goddess?
Doom, Poltergeist, and Goddess. The three Goddesses.

Argh, my mind.

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

Maybe because she was the only girl-looking "goddess" in the three. I mean, Poltergesit + Doom look likes they're males. Or maybe she was the goddess of all goddesses.

I believe Djibriel attempted to end the statue battle rumor once and for all, but I guess not. Basically, I remember hearing that the three monsters Doom, Poltrgeist, and Goddess are not the three statues, but merely just bosses in Kefka's Tower whom just happen to be three in number. I hope this helps at least some...

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Is PJ

That would mean that (1) that's true, and the characters just didn't know (they talked about why magic didn't just go away if you've got Terra with you in the party when you kill the third goddess), or (2) somebody forgot that they said that little bit of dialogue, that Kefka actually stole all their power and basically became the God and made the Goddesses obsolete, and that Kefka was the real source of magic after that.

Just my two cents, I don't speak Japanese and so never played that version.

This post has been edited by Zephir on 29th October 2004 03:04

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~Status Report~

* Completed... Dragon's Head
* Completed... Soldiers of the Empire: Disciples (release pending)
* In Progress/Undecided... Of Love and Betrayal
* Planning/Assembly... Where it all Began

They're goddesses. Game says so, and if you look closely, you'll notice a couple things even on Poltrgeist and Doom that aren't exactly male traits. Doom's usually the toughest because her skin is near black already and her breastplate is actually black.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED

Ok, well then I guess there are two questions really here...

Are those three bosses in Kefka's Tower (Doom, Goddess, and Poltergeist) actually the three goddess/statues?

If so, does anyone have any idea why one would actually be named Goddess? It's like a superhero named Superhero =/

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

Quote (Elessar @ 29th October 2004 08:42)

Ok, well then I guess there are two questions really here...

Are those three bosses in Kefka's Tower (Doom, Goddess, and Poltergeist) actually the three goddess/statues?

If so, does anyone have any idea why one would actually be named Goddess? It's like a superhero named Superhero =/

I think that they are the goddesses, just without their power cause Kefka already absorbed all of it. I think they even said something about the goddeesses turning into statues and there were 3 of them. On the floating continent Kefka had all 3 of them with him at the top. Those same statues are in Kefka's tower if you look closely enough.

I think that the whole goddess named goddess thing was a mistranslation. I wouldn't really know cause I don't speak Japanese, but that's my opinion.

This post has been edited by eternalsphere on 29th October 2004 13:02

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Music is a mysterious thing... Sometimes, it makes people remember things that they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember them or not...

- Shitan, Xenogears

I thought that Kefka, absorbing the power of the goddesses, turned them into monsters. So they are just the mutated form of what they would be. Goddess was named Goddess because she was ahead of the other 2 on the Floating Continent, making her the Boss of the 3.

I hate being sick with a cold.

This post has been edited by Green Magi on 29th October 2004 13:15

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Could you repeat that?

In Japan there names were~
Doom > Devil
Goddess > Goddess (No change)
Poltergeist > Fierce God

As far as I can tell the three goddesses are therefor 'nameless' (At no point are names given, they're either unknown or above names). All the above names just give hits on how they may attack.

This post has been edited by Mu the Squirrel on 29th October 2004 13:30

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

Goddess was the most feminite of the 3. She's also "Girl" when you face Kefka I believe. Makes sense to me.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

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Master ZED Posted on 28th October 2004 23:53
  They're goddesses. Game says so, and if you look closely, you'll notice a couple things even on Poltrgeist and Doom that aren't exactly male traits. Doom's usually the toughest because her skin is near black already and her breastplate is actually black. 

Mind posting a list of the said female traits for both Poltergeist and Doom?

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"A girl of no importance recently escaped from us.  We heard she found refuge here..."
-Kefka Palazzo

"Trust me, Ovelia. I’ll make a country worthy of you! I’ll make your life shine! Let me guide you!"
-Delita Hyral

Look at Poltergeist's top half, she has boobs. She's just not very feminine. ^^ Doom has no boobs, but does have a black breastplate as ZED said. They're just both very muscley women-things.

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

Quote (Mu the Squirrel @ 29th October 2004 14:29)

Look at Poltergeist's top half, she has boobs. She's just not very feminine. ^^ Doom has no boobs, but does have a black breastplate as ZED said. They're just both very muscley women-things.

I didn't notice this until you pointed it out. Doom is definitely wierd looking, but Poltergeist is clearly female inside massive armor, so perhaps Doom is as well.

But if the statues were all female, then they should clearly be referred to as the three goddesses. Which only makes it harder to believe that one of them would personally be named Goddess.

A lack of imagination perhaps? Or perhaps a mistranslation in the way we refer to the three statues?

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

Would you consider Phunbaba female or male, or simply something that can bench-press its own bodyweight?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that green giant wannabe must be hocked up on creatine.

A large chest does not mean that the two bosses in question are female or male. Personally, I would not consider giving the two a gender. Just takes away the fun. Would Lovecraft’s Cthulhu be as mysterious and scary if Lovecraft had written that the creature was female?


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"A girl of no importance recently escaped from us.  We heard she found refuge here..."
-Kefka Palazzo

"Trust me, Ovelia. I’ll make a country worthy of you! I’ll make your life shine! Let me guide you!"
-Delita Hyral

Quote

They're goddesses. Game says so, and if you look closely, you'll notice a couple things even on Poltrgeist and Doom that aren't exactly male traits. Doom's usually the toughest because her skin is near black already and her breastplate is actually black.

Ahh sorry, I was mistaken. I must've only caught the first half of that dispute (you know...where a wrong conclusion is come to with confidence, and then later proven wrong). Well, at least that's settled now.

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Is PJ

Quote (Elessar @ 29th October 2004 07:42)

If so, does anyone have any idea why one would actually be named Goddess? It's like a superhero named Superhero =/

My teddy bear was named Teddy Bear.

... and isn't the Christian god referred to as just "God." Hence the names assert that "Goddess" is the head/true Goddess and the other two are like the completion of a Triumvarate.

I don't think that we have to buy that "Goddess" goes around saying, "Hi my name is Goddess," any more than we have to buy that every Tap Dancer (the enemies in the Zone Eater) goes around saying, "Hi my name is Tap Dancer." An enemy-name doesn't have to make sense as personal name.

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Get me off this Disciplinary Committee so I can play any FF except for FF8!!!

Quote (Elessar @ 29th October 2004 07:42)

It's like a superhero named Superhero =/

Or superman...who would name a superhero that?

Quote (six)

A large chest does not mean that the two bosses in question are female or male.

But the fact that the game refers to them as goddesses does, doesn't it?

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Quote (six)

A large chest does not mean that the two bosses in question are female or male.

If you look at Poltergeist, you can clearly make out room for breasts in the armor. It's not for abnormally sized chests, it's for mammalian baby feeding. I'd swing a photoshop and point it out for you, but that seems wierd and unusual.

Quote (Ejoty)

... and isn't the Christian god referred to as just "God." Hence the names assert that "Goddess" is the head/true Goddess and the other two are like the completion of a Triumvarate.

Yet the Christian God is the only God. There's a difference here. Notice that Zeus wasn't simply God? Nor Cronos.

Quote (Ejoty)

I don't think that we have to buy that "Goddess" goes around saying, "Hi my name is Goddess," any more than we have to buy that every Tap Dancer (the enemies in the Zone Eater) goes around saying, "Hi my name is Tap Dancer." An enemy-name doesn't have to make sense as personal name.

Although I'd agree, the point in fact is that these bosses do have personalized names. They're not classes of monsters, unlike say, Magitek Armor or 1st Class. That's why Atma Weapon refers to itself as... Atma.

Quote (The Ancient)

Or superman...who would name a superhero that?

Hmm.. I think this is the first post that actually came close to convincing me that Square isn't off its rocker when they named one of the goddesses like that. It's just unfortunate that from the picture and the game, all the gods are females. Otherwise, you could simply refer to the female (half naked) god as Goddess, and the rest have real names...

Suffice to say, this always bugged me...

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

Wait, didn't I already answer why it's just goddess...?

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In Japan there names were~
Doom > Devil
Goddess > Goddess (No change)
Poltergeist > Fierce God

As far as I can tell the three goddesses are therefor 'nameless' (At no point are names given, they're either unknown or above names). All the above names just give hits on how they may attack.

What I wonder is: The Espers created the dimension they moved into and placed the statues there to protect (as promised) but the Espers were created by the goddesses...as you killed all the goddesses and magic vanished from the world...all the magic that the goddesses 'made'...wouldn't that mean that any remaining Espers simply ceased to exist as opposed to going to another place? Sucks to be them.

This post has been edited by Mu the Squirrel on 29th October 2004 21:26

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

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I believe Djibriel attempted to end the statue battle rumor once and for all, but I guess not.

You misunderstood me there. The three bosses called Doom, Poltrgeist and Goddess are the three goddesses of magic. No debate on either their existence or their gender. It's not like FF VIII Sorceress Adel had even, y'know, breasts or anything.

What is the rumor is this:

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Goddess was the most feminite of the 3. She's also "Girl" when you face Kefka I believe. Makes sense to me.

There's some 'official' Guide out there (the Strategy Guide even, IIRC) which sais that these are the Statue Reincarnations, but it's really a theory without any feedback from the game.

To me, it's something like this (heavy non-alinea reading):

It is clear that the world of FF VI possesses at least three goddesses. They were exiled, so there must be goddesses or gods more powerful then them. Polytheism, allright.

I think that FF VI is similair to Greek Mythology in the way that there are multiple gods, some more powerful then others, and each with their personalities.

Poltrgeist (called Kishin in the Japanese Version) is pretty much the Christian Satan. He’s evil, there’s fire, you do the maths.
Goddess (called Megami in the Japanese Version) is like the Roman Minerva (in Greek, that’s Athena). She’s a ‘bad guy’ in the FF VI game, but the goddesses are fighting, remember? My guess is that Goddess is the ‘good’ one. She absorb Pearl-elemental spells, and fights using all kinds of ‘aren’t I nice’-attacks. Love Token, Charm, etcetera.
Doom (Majin in the Japanese Version) is pulled from Hindoestan Mythology. There are demons, who oppose the gods. This can mean they are fighting for the humans (if the gods are in that case doing something which will harm the humans), and against them (if the gods are trying to help the humans). Doom is basically the neutral demon, fighting both ‘evil’ and ‘good’.

Quote

... and isn't the Christian god referred to as just "God."

I thought his name was Jahweh?

This post has been edited by Djibriel on 29th October 2004 22:06

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Kishin, Megami and Majin eh? Well I'm not Japanese, so I'll take yer word for it. Given I'm only going on the FFC translators.

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

It's been answered a million times already, Elessar: YES it's wierd, but YES her name is Goddess. It's a fault of the fact that we don't have an equivalent word in English for the Japanese name, I suppose, just as there's no word (or even a real way to describe) for tova'doq.

And there're several ways to interpret the Christian God's name: Jahweh, Jehovah... those two are the most well accepted, though.

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~Status Report~

* Completed... Dragon's Head
* Completed... Soldiers of the Empire: Disciples (release pending)
* In Progress/Undecided... Of Love and Betrayal
* Planning/Assembly... Where it all Began

I think since, like Djibriel said, the 3 goddesses were supposed to represent good, evil, and nutrality, that when it got translated, they tried to come up with a name for the "good" one, and the most powerful good entity that they could think of was "God", which got changed to "Goddess" to make it female.

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When life gives you lemons... SQUIRT THEM IN PEOPLES EYES! Mwahahahahaha! *Squirt* Ow! Hey, that was my job! *Squirt* Knock it off! *Squirt* I want my mommy! Waaah! *runs off*

The moral of this story is *Squirt* Ow! *Squirt* Okay, okay, no morals.

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The Ancient Posted on 29th October 2004 15:24 But the fact that the game refers to them as goddesses does, doesn't it?

Let us not forget the infallible translators with the whole Ziegfried and Siegfried deal.

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Elessar Posted on 29th October 2004 15:52 If you look at Poltergeist, you can clearly make out room for breasts in the armor. It's not for abnormally sized chests, it's for mammalian baby feeding. I'd swing a photoshop and point it out for you, but that seems wierd and unusual.

Head off to the local magazine rack and pick up any body building magazine. The lifters are all huge, along with say... Dorian Yates' chest. Poltergeist's sprite clearly appears to go along with the whole Olympic body builder physique.

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"A girl of no importance recently escaped from us.  We heard she found refuge here..."
-Kefka Palazzo

"Trust me, Ovelia. I’ll make a country worthy of you! I’ll make your life shine! Let me guide you!"
-Delita Hyral

Quote (Djibriel @ 29th October 2004 18:04)

It is clear that the world of FF VI possesses at least three goddesses. They were exiled, so there must be goddesses or gods more powerful then them. Polytheism, allright.

I think that FF VI is similair to Greek Mythology in the way that there are multiple gods, some more powerful then others, and each with their personalities.

Poltrgeist (called Kishin in the Japanese Version) is pretty much the Christian Satan. He’s evil, there’s fire, you do the maths.
Goddess (called Megami in the Japanese Version) is like the Roman Minerva (in Greek, that’s Athena). She’s a ‘bad guy’ in the FF VI game, but the goddesses are fighting, remember? My guess is that Goddess is the ‘good’ one. She absorb Pearl-elemental spells, and fights using all kinds of ‘aren’t I nice’-attacks. Love Token, Charm, etcetera.
Doom (Majin in the Japanese Version) is pulled from Hindoestan Mythology. There are demons, who oppose the gods. This can mean they are fighting for the humans (if the gods are in that case doing something which will harm the humans), and against them (if the gods are trying to help the humans). Doom is basically the neutral demon, fighting both ‘evil’ and ‘good’.

So that goddesses that we fight aren't actually the statues themselves? I'm not sure what you're getting at here, aside from background of the three goddesses that you fight.

Quote (six)

Head off to the local magazine rack and pick up any body building magazine. The lifters are all huge, along with say... Dorian Yates' chest. Poltergeist's sprite clearly appears to go along with the whole Olympic body builder physique.

Since we're talking about pixelated breasts, I find it difficult to even continue this train of conversation.
However, I doubt I can convince you with mere words over a pixelated picture. So let's let the game decide for us.

Quote (six)

Quote (The Ancient Posted on 29th October 2004 15:24)

But the fact that the game refers to them as goddesses does, doesn't it?

Let us not forget the infallible translators with the whole Ziegfried and Siegfried deal.

Oh, never mind. I guess you don't believe the game either.

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

Quote

Quote (six)
Head off to the local magazine rack and pick up any body building magazine. The lifters are all huge, along with say... Dorian Yates' chest. Poltergeist's sprite clearly appears to go along with the whole Olympic body builder physique.

Since we're talking about pixelated breasts, I find it difficult to even continue this train of conversation. 
However, I doubt I can convince you with mere words over a pixelated picture. So let's let the game decide for us.

It was fun fussing about something so irrelevant with you. I'm going to miss it.

How about we argue about something else! My daddy has more MP's than your daddy! -lol-

Quote

Quote (six)
Quote (The Ancient Posted on 29th October 2004 15:24)
But the fact that the game refers to them as goddesses does, doesn't it?
Let us not forget the infallible translators with the whole Ziegfried and Siegfried deal.

Oh, never mind. I guess you don't believe the game either.

I haven't believed in much ever since Bush said the word "Crusade".



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"A girl of no importance recently escaped from us.  We heard she found refuge here..."
-Kefka Palazzo

"Trust me, Ovelia. I’ll make a country worthy of you! I’ll make your life shine! Let me guide you!"
-Delita Hyral

Like I said: No debate on either their existence or their gender. The Goddesses are the Statues, and I don't see how the quoted material would tell you otherwise.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

Man, you guys are overeading on the game WAAAYYYY too much. The way I see it is, the Statues you fight in the game are the 3 Goddesses. In order to get to Kekfa, you gotta knock the 3 omnispotent chicks out. The game painfully tries to point that out to you.


Period. I like to keep things simple, saves me some time and brain cells.

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//www.rpgmaker.net/
We make games. Period.

I'll joing back in.

The etymological roots of the Japanese goddess-names actually makes the game even more interesting, because we wouldn't otherwise know that the 3 goddesses aren't a team, but instead they have conflicting interests. So yeah, they're just like pantheonic gods. Thanks Djibriel.

... and by the way, I still don't think that we have to buy that Goddess actually calls herself Goddess. How do we know? She could be beyond linguistic communication. Oooo... telepathy

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Get me off this Disciplinary Committee so I can play any FF except for FF8!!!

Quote (Ejoty @ 30th October 2004 19:10)

The etymological roots of the Japanese goddess-names actually makes the game even more interesting, because we wouldn't otherwise know that the 3 goddesses aren't a team, but instead they have conflicting interests.

Actually, we already knew that from the golden statues on Crescent Island. They sum up what happened to the goddesses after their arrival and until their self-petrification.

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The Unoriginal White Sheet

-Master ZED