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I want to use an all Lancer party, simply because they are my favorite class and I've never tried it before. My question is, what does the length of time it takes for a Lancers "jump" command to land depend on? I miss with it quite a bit, so I'm wondering how I can improve the speed of the jump attack. Is it dependant on the speed level of the character, the AT, the distance of the jump?

Also, do any of you who have attempted an all Lancer party have any tips or strategies you would like to share?

Thanks in advance.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

The length of time it takes for a Lancer to land depends on 3 parameters : your Lancer's Speed, the target's Speed and the target's CT gauge. The distance doesn't matter at all.
In short, you'll have to be either very fast (not easy with a troop of all Lancers, but otherwise available with Speed Save, Yell or Cheer Song), or your enemy has to be very slow (not with the Slow status effect, but rather with a low Speed stat. Using Speed Break helps a lot, or Slow Dance), or you have to time your jump just after an enemy takes his turn (at that moment, his CT gauge is at its lowest point. You could also try to reset his CT count with Persuade)

My tips would be to use the range of the spear rather than the Jump ability : it's more reliable, and prevents you from any counter attack (so does the Jump command, but as you saw it's rather difficult to predict when you're going to land. Maybe someone with hacking skills could provide some sort of chart, but I'm not that guy). If you really want to Jump at someone, you have to prevent him from moving, by encircling him for example, or affect him with Don't Move, Stop or Sleep status.
Also, I would definitely recommend the use of Two Hands support skill (only for regular attacks : Jump is inaffected by it).
Finally, try to encounter high leveled Ninjas with Catch equiped, to try to obtain some Javelin II...

This post has been edited by Mr Thou on 15th June 2004 15:04

Are you playing a SCC or are you just using all Lancers? If you're doing a SCC, I did one of Lancers recently and it was a lot of fun. You can't use any abilities that Lancers don't learn, but that wasn't too bad.

As far as the Jumping goes, I've found that in about 98% of the cases, Jumping on an enemy who's CT is at 50 or less will guarantee a hit. I think this is because the speed of your jump is twice the speed of your character. So, if your enemy has 7 speed and is at 40 CT, and you have 7 speed, it will go like this:

40, 0
47, 14
54, 28
61, 42
68, 56
75, 70
82, 84
89, 98
96, 100

Now, the 0 may actually start at the 47, but either way, the Jump will land before the enemy can go. I hope that helps!

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--sbq92 <><

Quote

The length of time it takes for a Lancer to land depends on 3 parameters : your Lancer's Speed, the target's Speed and the target's CT gauge. The distance doesn't matter at all.

This isn't true. The length of time it takes you to land depends on exactly one thing: Your speed. Jump length is determined by your speed times two. That's why if your character and your target have the same speed and no status effects, you will go first if his CT is <50, but he will go first if his CT is >50. I'll assume you understand how the game measures turns but if you need more explanation let me know.

One more thing of note. The status effects Haste and Stop change your effective speed and not your actual speed so they do not make a change to the time you spend to Jump...i.e. Hasting your character will not speed up your Jump time.

This post has been edited by The Ancient on 15th June 2004 17:24

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Okay, I didn't want to take it through complete obscure technicalities, but there you go.

The game has some sort of an internal clock, that keeps track of "elapsed time". This time is counted in "time units".
When casted, any timed action (IE an action that requires charging time, that is to say every spell, Charge skill, Jump, Limit, etc...) starts with a number of "time units", depending on the SP of the action. The slowest the action is, the higher the number of "time units" is at the begining.
Every time the game counts a "time unit", all charged actions have their number depleted by one, and every character have their respective CT gauge increased by a number proportionnal to their respective Speed stat. When a charged action no longer has any "time unit", it takes effect.

So, when a character jumps, the Jump command gets a number of "time units" in proportion of the jumper's speed. Then the game continues to count. If the target has a sufficient speed and CT gauge filled, it can act before the jump has its number of "time units" depleted to 0.

Therefore, the Jump command depends on 3 factors : jumper's Speed, target's Speed and target's CT gauge.

This post has been edited by Mr Thou on 4th August 2004 14:26

Wow... you guys came through in fine form! Thanks for the great advice. Mr. Thou- Im seeing the wisdom of using basic attacks rather than the jump command... but the jump command is just so darn cool, its hard to give up on. I don't use two hands, though, because Im a stickler for having shields equipped. Attack Up is the route im going right now. Anyone have any numbers for the effectiveness of Attack Up vs. Two Hands? In broad terms, please. I dont want to get bogged down by the weapon type, characters strength or brave, and all of that.

--------------------

Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

Like I said, the jump command is inaffected by Two Hands; in fact, it's inaffected by every martial support skill.
As for choosing between Two Hands vs Attack Up for regular attacks, it depends : if you're a real stickler with shield, Attack Up is good for you. But Two hands gives incredible destructive power (doubles the weapon attack power). Your choice really.

This post has been edited by Mr Thou on 4th August 2004 14:34

ok you may not need any more help but i would like to say that if you press ( > ) while choosing your attack target it will show you the turns in order and what spells/abilites will be between these turns

now im not sure if this is true for the jump ability but i know it is true for such abilites like charge or black magic, i would check but my playstation is not working right now.

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And when the band you're in starts playing different tunes,
i'll see you on the dark side of the moon.... - Pink Floyd

Eagle may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

That actually helps out alot! I'll have to try that today after work.... but just one question. Was that the triangle button I'm supposed to hit, or a directional button?

(Hamedo feels dumb now)

--------------------

Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

Quote

The length of time it takes for a Lancer to land depends on 3 parameters : your Lancer's Speed, the target's Speed and the target's CT gauge.

Quote

Therefore, the Jump command depends on 3 factors : jumper's Speed, target's Speed and target's CT gauge.

I hope you see these are two different statements. The second is somewhat superflous as every non-immediate command is dependant on target's speed and target's CT.

Anyway, you can't check the landing time with the turn list as AFlyingWeasel mentioned. Quite a nuisance seeing as how the game knows when you land before you jump. I guess they wanted to weaken the command by making it seem more random....Didn't they realize we'd figure it out?

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

I dunno... I think the sheer power of Jump is appropriately offset by the difficulty in predicting landing times. Right now I'm training Ramza and one of my soldiers as Lancers, and I'm having plenty of fun just using my Partisans to skewer Goblins...

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I can't think of anything to say, really, except... I think it's nice... Ha ha ha!

Sweet. Thanks for all the info, guys. Currently I'm in Chapter 3 getting ready for the trip to Orbonne Monastary and my guys are all floating around level 32. Ramza is a Squire, Mustadio is a chemist with Snipe, and I've got my three Lancers. All have spear, shield, armor and helmet, with power wrists. Their skillsets are all the same, with Jump, Punch Art, Blade Grasp, Attack Up, and Move+2. I know... I know... I need to spend more time leveling, but thats how it stands now. I don't see changing the Lancers skillset from now till the end of the game, unless anyone has thoughts on how to improve on this design.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

It sounds to me like some people are giving up on the Jump command. I found it extremely useful in my all-Lancer game. It was how I avoided dying a lot and how I managed to win most of the battles.

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--sbq92 <><

Ok... this question may seem hella noobish, but...

I read somewhere that lancers are useless late-game. Is this true? cos if it is, all-lancer parties are gonna be hard, right?

No, they can still hold their own late in the game. You'll just be hurting for some healers...but they can do crazy damage with jumps. They will destroy Zodiac monsters.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

but what about riovanes roof... they wont be fast enough will they?

On Riovanes roof, with all Lancers, if you have a high enough level then this is how it will play out...

Elmdor goes first, Muramasa on Rafa. Next, Rafa will go. If you are LUCKY she will turn tail and run towards you instead of going to hit one of the assasins.

Next one of the assasins will go, then the other. The first usually uses Shadow Stitch on Ramza, the second assasin kills him. Then, if you've put your fastest Lancer behind Ramza on the battle planning screen, they will go next. Climb up (you need either Move+3 or Ignore Height... the assasin should only be 3 panels or less away from you if you choose Ignore Height, plus you have the two-panel reach with a spear anyway. Attack the assasin and if you can kill her of make her go critical, you've won the battle.

All of this hinges on two pivotal things. One- Rafa MUST head towards you instead of the assasins. Two- Your fastest Lancer Must be directly behind Ramza at the battles beginning.

That's how Lancers win the battle on Riovanes roof. I just got done beating the game with my all Lancer squad, and the toughest battle I fought in the whole game was Bariaus Hill, with a few hydra's and dragons. The longest battle was trying to steal from Elmdor in Limberry.... Lancers do NOT make good thieves.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

So i'd better start buying my ppl those speed enhancing items then im hoping to do the roof battle when im around level 36... is this too ambitious/stupid/pointless? i dun wanna have to spend all that effort on velius then find i have to train more

Thanks

Well I would definetly keep a save outside of Riovanes just in case, but yeah... level 36 should be sufficient. About the only thing you can do to bump up the speed is to give them Sprint Shoes, since they can only use armor and helmets.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

Jump is pretty much affected by the jumper's speed.

You'll have a hard time nailing a ninja this way. Basically pay attention to the unit you're going to jump on's speed value and what their CT is versus how fast your lancer is. We'll use a Calculator in this example because they are slow as hell.

If the Calculator has a speed of 6 and his CT gauge is at 40 (I can't recommend trying to romp anybody who has a CT gauge over 50, unless you are a ninja with jump...) and the lancer has a speed of 11 then when your lancer jumps he will land on the Calculator (because they are slow), who will have a CT gauge that is now at 70 and your lancer should drop down with a CT gauge at around 50~60.

Basically you want your Lancer to pick on the slower people with Jump. Otherwise there's nothing wrong with poking them from two panels away with a spear.

Maybe the oddest thing I've noticed about Jump is that you cannot be targetted by any attack but the unit can be Jumped by a another Lancer while in the air.

This post has been edited by Mike on 16th July 2004 08:20

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Now the story's played out like this. Just like a paperback novel. Let's rewrite an ending that fits.

There's no need for the jump attack on Riovanes roof. Thats why I said you need to move up next to one of the assasins and attack him. Shoot.... if you pull a jump on the roof, Rafa will be long dead before you land, most likely.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

heh... i see what you're on about with the jumping. thanks for the advice.

Quote

My question is, what does the length of time it takes for a Lancers "jump" command to land depend on?

The Speed of the Jump is entirely dependent on the Jumper's Speed. Take 50, divide it by the speed of your jumper and truncate after the decimal and that is how may Clockticks it will take for the jump to land.

Quote

Therefore, the Jump command depends on 3 factors : jumper's Speed, target's Speed and target's CT gauge.

That's wrong. Regardless of the target's speed Speed and CT, Jump Speed is always dependent on the Jumper's Speed stat. Sure if the target has high Speed and high CT the jump might not be successful but that does not mean the Jump's speed varied.

This chart has the Target's Speed (who you want to jump on) across the top of
the chart (X Axis) and the Jumper's Speed (the unit performing the Jump)
going down the left side of the chart (Y Axis). The numbers in the chart are
the maximum CT that a target can have and the Jump will still land before the
target moves.

Let us say that your 8 speed Lancer wants to Jump on Balk, one of the hardest
Final Fantasy Tactics bosses. Balk has 13 speed. Go to the Jumper's Speed
column and go down to the 8. Move across to the box that is 8 versus 13. You
will see the number 34. That means if Balk has 34 or less CT then you can
Jump on him and the Jump will land. However if he has 35 to 100 CT and you
try to Jump on him he will move before the Jump lands.


---| Jumper Speed (Y Axis, 1 - 26) vs. Target Speed (X Axis, 1 - 17) |---


|| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10| 11| 12| 13| 14| 15| 16| 17| 18|
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________
1 || 50| 0| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX|
______________________________________________________________________________
2 || 75| 50| 25| 0| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX|
______________________________________________________________________________
3 || 84| 69| 54| 39| 24| 9| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX|
______________________________________________________________________________
4 || 88| 77| 66| 55| 44| 33| 22| 11| 0| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX|
______________________________________________________________________________
5 || 90| 81| 72| 63| 54| 45| 36| 27| 18| 9| 0| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX|
______________________________________________________________________________
6 || 92| 85| 78| 71| 64| 57| 50| 43| 36| 29| 22| 15| 8| XX| XX| XX| XX| XX|
______________________________________________________________________________
7 || 93| 87| 81| 75| 69| 63| 57| 51| 45| 39| 33| 27| 21| 15| 9| 3| XX| XX|
______________________________________________________________________________
8 || 94| 89| 84| 79| 74| 69| 64| 59| 54| 49| 44| 39| 34| 29| 24| 19| 14| 9|
______________________________________________________________________________
9 || 95| 91| 87| 83| 79| 75| 71| 67| 63| 59| 55| 51| 47| 43| 39| 35| 31| 27|
______________________________________________________________________________
10|| 95| 91| 87| 83| 79| 75| 71| 67| 63| 59| 55| 51| 47| 43| 39| 35| 31| 27|
______________________________________________________________________________
11|| 96| 93| 90| 87| 84| 81| 78| 75| 72| 69| 66| 63| 60| 57| 54| 51| 48| 45|
______________________________________________________________________________
12|| 96| 93| 90| 87| 84| 81| 78| 75| 72| 69| 66| 63| 60| 57| 54| 51| 48| 45|
______________________________________________________________________________
13|| 97| 95| 93| 91| 89| 87| 85| 83| 81| 79| 77| 75| 73| 71| 69| 67| 65| 63|
______________________________________________________________________________
14|| 97| 95| 93| 91| 89| 87| 85| 83| 81| 79| 77| 75| 73| 71| 69| 67| 65| 63|
______________________________________________________________________________
15|| 97| 95| 93| 91| 89| 87| 85| 83| 81| 79| 77| 75| 73| 71| 69| 67| 65| 63|
______________________________________________________________________________
16|| 97| 95| 93| 91| 89| 87| 85| 83| 81| 79| 77| 75| 73| 71| 69| 67| 65| 63|
______________________________________________________________________________
17|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
18|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
19|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
20|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
21|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
22|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
23|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
24|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
25|| 98| 97| 96| 95| 94| 93| 92| 91| 90| 89| 88| 87| 86| 85| 84| 83| 82| 81|
______________________________________________________________________________
26|| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99| 99|
______________________________________________________________________________

____________________
/// Jump Speed Formula \\\
\\\____________________///


__| The Jump Speed Formula is this:

50 divided by Jumper's speed, truncate after the decimal point

Let's say your Jumper has 8 Speed

50/8 = 6.25 (truncate) = 6 CTR

1 Speed: 50 CTR

2 Speed: 25 CTR

3 Speed: 16 CTR

4 Speed: 12 CTR

5 Speed: 10 CTR

6 Speed: 8 CTR

7 Speed: 7 CTR

8 Speed: 6 CTR

9 - 10 Speed: 5 CTR

11 - 12 Speed: 4 CTR

13 - 16 Speed: 3 CTR

17 - 25 Speed: 2 CTR

26 - 50 Speed: 1 CTR