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What?!? A chance to plug Sephiroth? Why now? I've been using every venue so far to do it before this. So I'm a bit tired of doing it. In short, Sephiroth's just a better villian.

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"I was using a metaphor. Someone shut him up before I do it with a knife."- Black Mage, 8-bit Theatre

"I found out what zombies are weak against......Point Blank Annihilation"- Black Mage, 8-bit Theatre

"You'd be paranoid too, if everyone was out to get you!"

ok, i voted sephiroth because he was plain evil. FF6 is the better game though. and i liked kefka because of his comments torward the good guys, it was something like "you guys sound like the pages from a self-help manual" it was funny! but sephiroth was far stronger and more evil (although he didnt burn down villages with statues for the fun of it, he did it the old fashioned way, "fire")

This question seems to be one that I've answered many times, but I'll do it again just because I enjoy explaining my opinion in this matter.

The Kefka vs. Sephiroth debate, as far as I'm concerned, is more of just a specific form of the Final Fantasy VI vs. Final Fantasy VII debate. Each game had its pros and cons, however, in my opinoin, Final Fantasy VI blows VII away in almost all aspects other than visuals and length. This includes villian, Kefka.

In many ways, Final Fantasy VI redefined the RPG itself. Before Final Fantasy VI came along, most turn based RPGs were very similar to each other. Being that this is not a FFVI vs. FFVII debate, however, I will go ahead and focus on the two villians, the two categories I believe are most important to a villian, and why I believe Kefka was better.

Originality/Evilness - Winner: Kefka
-Why Kefka wins-
Kefka truly changed the face of the RPG villian. Kefka was introduced only after Terra, even before Locke or Emperor Gestahl. You could tell right off the bat how sick and twisted he was, enslaving a girl with a magic crown, and laughing as he ordered her to incinerate his own fellow Imperial Soldiers. Instead of leading battle against a mysterious darkness like in previous RPGs, evil was defined. You were facing a force of humans, greedy, powerhungry, magically-infused men and women who wished to conquer the world. Not at all truly a far-fetched scenario. For the first time in an RPG, the villian, the threat, was human, and was more realistically terrifying than any non-human threat could ever be.

Kefka was also not what you'd really expect out of a supervillian. The second time in the game that I saw him, I truly thought he was merely comic relief, and that like previous Final Fantasies, the true evil would eventually be revealed after he and the rest of the empire was destroyed at its hands. Only as the game progressed, and I realized just how evil Kefka was, did I begin to wonder if he would not have a hand in unleashing some horrible fate on our characters' world, which he ended up not only had a hand in, but being the sole cause of. His cruelty is unmatched in a game's story to this day, as he murdered men, women and children alike while gleefully cackling like someone watching stand up comedy. He was what we all truly fear, a sadistic clown. What could be more evil and terrifying than someone who gains pleasure from and finds so much humor in watching people suffer, and die horrible deaths, (especially) including the most innocent of the victims? What could be worse than someone who compares screams and cries for help and mercy with music? What could be more of a threat than someone who defied all logic, who wished to destroy everything that existed for the sheer purpose of destroying it? He threw the world into a state of dying decay, toying with its citizens, torturing it slowly, watching as people rebuilt what he took from them only to take it away again, laughing like a deranged parent who just knocked over their child's building blocks, watching them as they picked up the pieces, then smashed them to nothing laughing the entire time. His goal was not only to destroy everything and everyone, but to destroy hope itself; to make everything WANT to be destroyed as much as he wanted to destroy it. Kefka was like every evil clown rolled into one; he was the Joker from Batman, he was Pennywise from Stephen King's IT, he was Majin Buu from Dragonball Z (the only anime villian I really give much credit to), but he was more than that, too. He was Kefka, he was chaos, he was evil personified.

-Why Sephiroth loses-
While Sephiroth was foreboding in his own darker way, he was in no way original. Some might not even call him a bad guy. He carried a sword that in two past games was wielded by a hero, not a villian, and his ultimate goal really was to save the planet, no matter the cost, from the greedy, power hungry humans who were destroying it. While he had obvious psychological turmoil, he was more of a depressed megalomaniac than a true sociopath like Kefka was.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

He believed that his destiny was to return the planet to its former glory (that the humans of Shin-Ra were destroying) by summoning meteor, being absorbed by the planet itself, then fending it off. WEAPON didn't go after him; it went after Shin-Ra. Then there's the whole mind control aspect, and it makes you wonder whether he himself is even in control of his evil deeds, or any of himself for that matter.

He saw himself the same way that he saw the planet; torn, abused, and alone, and he would stop at nothing to change it, to 'right the wrong' in his eyes. Sephiroth wouldn't even consider himself a villian, if you ask me.

In terms of the game, Sephiroth was more of a remake of previous villians (and heros). The dark theme of Emperor Gestahl and Golbeza, as well as a lot of other Golbeza characteristics. He had the physical characteristics of Setzer, and his final forms in the game were complete ripoffs of Kefka's final forms. Even some of his attacks were ripoffs, like Heartless Angel (Fallen One, anyone?), although I must give credit for the visuals of Supernova, although it made no sense considering if the sun is gone, so is the planet.. (go figure).


Strength (Final Battle) - Winner: Kefka

This is more of a hypothetical and ridiculous situation (although it would be fun to watch), and being the hopeless nerd that I am, I actually went through all of the games algorithms and each villian's attacks and came up with the outcome that 90-95% of the time (using the same FF6 algorithms for Kefka and FF7 algorithms for Sephiroth) Kefka would be victorious in a battle versus Sephiroth (this includes all four of Kefka's forms and both of Sephiroth's forms). The starting forms would be Bizarro Sephiroth versus Kefka's alpha form (head, two arms). It's about even at this point, with Sephiroth having the slight advantage, having more 'pieces' of himself to hit, and as both do similar damage in battle, Bizarro getting the advantage and moving on to tier 2 would be probable.

At this point Bizarro would have about a 20-40% chance of defeating Kefka's beta form (tiger, rider, twins, king). Saying he did, and moved on to Kefka's gamma form (ironically enough looking very very similar to Sephiroth's Bizarro form) he would have a 5-10% chance of winning while retaining the same form, due to the final attack of "Calmness" (also sometimes randomly cast, and cast twice at the same time) which is unblockable and causes instant death; the only way to repel it is with Life 3. If Sephiroth is in Savior form at this point, and Calmness is cast, he is toast.

If Bizarro made it all the way here, he'd have his best chance to win, although it would still be a tough battle. Fallen One would put away Bizarro pretty quick, at which point Savior Sephiroth would face Kefka. What would ensue would be a very interesting battle, the turning point of which would be who used Fallen One/Heartless Angel first. If Seph managed it first, he would most likely win.

If he survives to face God Kefka in Savior form (or if you just want to put God Kefka vs. Savior Sephiroth, ignoring the other forms), he would then be hit with Fallen One and it would be all over, due to the fact that Savior Sephiroth is only one target. Sephiroth has no way of healing himself, and left with one HP, he would generally cast Supernova (6000-8000 max damage, with no status effect because God Kefka is immune to all status ailments), leaving Kefka to finish him off with Hyperdrive (7000-8000+, defense ignoring) or whatever random attack is scheduled.


While Sephiroth and Final Fantasy VII appealed to most of the first generation Final Fantasy players, those who played VI will generally agree that VI was the better game. The reason, in my opinion, is that it was the most human of the games. It had a very human cast of characters, a very emotional and personal struggle against a very human enemy, and a very human evil. What made the game for me is when I look back and see how conflict such as this, how evil such as this, really does exist in our world, and how one man, if twisted enough, could very well do something similar to what Kefka did, and leave us in a world of ruin. We dress up evil in the form of strange species and ancient creatures, when the truth is evil exists in all of us, and true evil could only be beheld in the form of a man.

This post has been edited by Wiggymaster on 22nd May 2004 01:39

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The problem with the world is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Kefka, it seemed kinda obious to me, I don't know why?

I vote for Kefka. Why?

Good lord, why waste my breath repeating what everyone's already said?
I go with Wiggle, and his argument on human evil as to why Kefka is truly the more terrifying villain. Get past his funny antics, and you'll see human evil in its rawest, most brutal form. One can't help but shudder.
Now, give that raw essence of human evil the power of the gods themselves. Uh huh. I believe "we are $%#@ed" is the proper expression.

As for Sephiroth, he is the generic "misunderstood/mislead" anime villain. I can understand his line of thinking, but it illicites sympathy, not hatred. As far as his actions go, killing a main character and burning down a town are small potatoes compaired to the atrocities of previous FF villains. Kefka turned the world inside out. Ex-Death ripped planets apart.

Well, as I mentioned in an another post, Sephiroth just plain irritates me, mainly because of how people react to him: He is a bishonen bad-ass with a big sword. Because of this, most people I talk to about Final Fantasy claim he is the greatest FF villain, neh, the greatest, RPG Villain of all time. Why? Mainly because, just from his general appearance and attitude, "all the girls want him, all the guys want to be him; hell, half the guys want him too". At least this is the impression I get from most peoples statements. Bleh.

Anyway, Sephiroth was a decent villain, he fit the story, but he just doesn't impress me, or illicite fear/hatred the way Kefka does.

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And behold, I saw a Pale Gaming System, and the name of he who rode it was Squaresoft, and Enix followed him.

I voted for Sephiroth because Kefka was just acting like a psychopathic idiot during the whole game but when i played FFVII I felt that Sephiroth was seriously evil and a force to be reckoned with

Sephiroth. 8 foot katana, what else do you need?

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets

Kefka, since his form of evil seems far more malicious.

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Don't worry, I'm not going to garrote you.

Quote (Cell @ 28th July 2003 23:11)

Cefca gets my vote with ease.He's just too cool.The way he doesn't take himself seriously and seems to have FUN while murdering things and making my life harder,is just depressing and kind of makes you despair.Which would you rather want near "The red button"?A dark,cliched tall guy who knows what he's doing,or a giggling,dancing psycho who'd just press the button for the fun of it?Not the latter,I'm sure,which make's Cefca oh-so-much-more of villainious quality than *spits* Sephie.

Need I say more? I mean really

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

i also hate how everyone exagerrates the katana by 3 feet, japanese people are small, they make their heros at their height, if the katana was 8 feet, sephiroth would have a hell of trouble moving around with that thing, 6 feet max most likely 5

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THE LIZARDSSS SHALL EATSSS YOU

Quote (Angry_Lizard @ 15th June 2004 22:06)

i also hate how everyone exagerrates the katana by 3 feet, japanese people are small, they make their heros at their height, if the katana was 8 feet, sephiroth would have a hell of trouble moving around with that thing, 6 feet max most likely 5

Sephiroth is 6 foot 1, not so Japanese, and his sword's blade alone is taller than him. Check it out.

...well, I tried to post a link to a pic at RPGamer.com ...but it only ended up going to some other page on their site, but go there or just grab your FF7 manual and check out the Seph's profile. I speak the truth.

This post has been edited by Ejoty on 16th June 2004 03:35

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Get me off this Disciplinary Committee so I can play any FF except for FF8!!!

Kefka was evil for the sake of being evil. It's possible that Kefka was just following orders up until the floating continent. If that is the case, then he never had any evil plans, other than kill kill kill kill kill. It's quite possible that he never even had anything going through his head other than kill destroy torture kill destroy torture... He was basicially an all-powerful A-hole.

Sephiroth was cold and calculating, in adittion to slightly insane. He destroyed for a reason. The saddest thing is, I could see myself, in that world and with that sort of power, doing some of the things he did.

They are 2 completely different kinds of villians. Kefka is like Hitler, and Sephiroth is like, yes, a stereotypical anime badass.

Personally, I've always prefered the stereotypical anime badass to the evil clown.

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Mercy?! I am the sixth phase of your world's destruction! would you like some evil pie?

My name is Fox, I am infinitely great, and I am the author of this comic strip..

deleted

This post has been edited by Angry_Lizard on 29th October 2019 00:05

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THE LIZARDSSS SHALL EATSSS YOU

I always viewed Kefka as the better villain. Unlike most before him who were evil for either no explained reason or because of what they had brought upon themselves, Kefka's evil was directly the fault of the Empire. Since he was used as a sort of human guinea pig in the field of magic infusion, the experiment itself (as unperfected as the procedure apparently was) drove him over the edge, resulting in his utter insanity. One could say he was just another victim of the Empire's cruelty. However, rather than seek revenge or what have you, he chose to take advantage of his power and use it in a way that his warped mind saw fit: for pure sadistic purposes. By the end of the game it becomes quite clear that he's become far more than the threat he was as an Imperial general who ripped the earth the shreds; he's become a nihilist who views all existence, even his own, as petty and senseless with total annihilation of life, land, creatures, and morals being the 'best' fate of the world; he's become completely devoid and incapable of any positive emotion other than the kicks he gets out of murdering anyone regardless of their age or social status; he has a death grip on the earth's magical essence, causing the world to steadily decline into nothingness, and, of course, has literally become a demonic deity. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd say Kefka was the closest thing to (if not exactly) the physical embodiment of pure evil ever to grace a video game.

Besides, Kefka was also one of the first (and possibly the first villain) to answer the age-old question : Do video game characters ever use the restroom?

As for Sephiroth, Wiggymaster summed up my thoughts to a tee. The only thing I can personally add is that in terms of true villainy, the silver-haired one disappointed me.


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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

Quote (Fox @ 15th June 2004 22:55)

Kefka was evil for the sake of being evil.  It's possible that Kefka was just following orders up until the floating continent. If that is the case, then he never had any evil plans, other than kill kill kill kill kill. It's quite possible that he never even had anything going through his head other than kill destroy torture kill destroy torture...  He was basicially an all-powerful A-hole.

Yep, and isn't he great at what he does? A perfect role model.......uh, nevermind >_>

And that one thing, Kefka being Hitler. I never thought of it like that, but yeah, I have to hand it to Sephiroth, I like the anime badass (Inuyasha, Vegeta, Heia, Soura {{.hack//sign}} )

This post has been edited by Sherick on 16th June 2004 06:20

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

Quote (Angry_Lizard @ 16th June 2004 00:30)

well sorry to inform you, but 180 centimeters is only 70.8661417 inches around 5' 11'' (im 5'9''), sephiroth is about the size of a tall asian(which would make sense because he was enhanced by mako and injected with jenova cells, making him stronger and biger than most human beings)

sephiroth is about 7/7.5 the size of his sword(blade) and you can get the  blade's length by multiply sephy's height by 7.5/7 which calculates to approximately 76 inches 6'4", its big, but not THAT big

I got his profile off the same site you did
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/text/char/ff7chr10.html

take that sucka!!!

well, i'm sorry to inform you, but you have too much time on your hands. TAKE THAT SUCKAPANTS!!!!!

This post has been edited by Malevolence on 16th June 2004 17:41

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets

On a basis of coolness Sephiroth is way better (I mean come on guys a man who wears face paint) but on overall evilness it has to be Kefka, i mean laughing about killing loads of people, and Kefka's last form was way cooler than Sephiroth, but you do feel compassion for Sephiroth which you don't for Kefka. But yeah I guess Kefka would win this.

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He Was a Beast Without Fangs. Thats Why he's Dead. The Same Goes For You.

if laughing about killing loads of people makes you evil enough for this challenge, why isn't Cahrles Manson on the list. lol.

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets

i voted for sepiroth its dead locked now lol i came to hate seprioth a lot more because he always kept you guissin and wanting to know what evil mind game was coming next

deleted

This post has been edited by Angry_Lizard on 29th October 2019 00:05

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THE LIZARDSSS SHALL EATSSS YOU

Malevolence and Angry_Lizard, don't post at each other in this thread any more. Nobody cares about your little back-and-forth argument.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Kefka. Seph is just the stereotypical villain with an impossible sword. Kefka is... Kefka! He's a psycotic clown! Not to mention his music followws his personlity AMAZINGLY well. His tune is as psyco as he is!

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Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Kefka. He's beyond all human comprehension of madass. He's evil to the bone, and he has no "legitimate"(the term "legitimate" being loosely used here) reason to be evil to the bone - thus, you can't pity him the way you'd pity, say, Sephiroth for being misunderstood for example. He just wants to blow everything to oblivion and have a damn good time doing so. He's the bad guy you love and love to hate all at the same time. And his theme song kicks ass.
Then again, Sephiroth was... hawt. Quite hawt. Rawr.

This post has been edited by LadyRed on 17th June 2004 04:07

You know, if I was a bit more twisted, Kefka would actually be my idol. He does what he does, and has a damn good time doing it.

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Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Sephiroth and Kefka had the same general goal: become a god. Kefka wanted to destroy the world for fun, sephiroth just needed to do so in order to become a god. Sephiroth failed, kefka suceeded. Kefka wins.

This post has been edited by artent on 17th June 2004 19:38

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"I will be the last, and you will go first!" -Saravok

"Silence Dog. You serve no purpose but to die by my hand." - Jon Irenicus

"Doom awaits thee!" -Mellisan

"Eh-Yo, It's me, Imoen"

I would have to go with kefka because he is your comic relief and your punching bag at the same time. Also he has the worlds best laugh which i use as my startupsound for palm pilot. i love how at the beginning of the game he is a meniacle wuss and then at the end he's your worst nightmare!

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HAHA all my game saves lost!

oh yeah and i am the proud owner of a never before opened snes copy of ffvi still in plastic and everything!

I prefer Kefka for many of the reasons already mentioned. Thanks to a Magitek infusion gone wrong, Kefka has an interesting array of personality complexes that make him both funny and easy to hate. He also says some great things, my favorite being “You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet!”

Sephiroth is a decent villain, but he is so cliched that he will never be a classic in my book.

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The world before the fall...
Delightful is the light of dawn...
Noble is the heart of man...

I seriously dont know who would choose Sephiroth.
Sure he looks cool... but thats about all he has going for him.
The guy doesnt even have a personality.

Ok... lets compare the two.
Kefka:
1) Poisons the water supply of Doma Castle against orders and in the process kills Cyans wife and child.
2) Just when everyone thinks things are cool again, the Espers have finally come out of hiding and they want to live with humans again, Kefka comes in, kills ALL the Espers there and takes their powers.
3) He kills General Leo in the process of taking the Espers powers for himself.
4) He raises the lost continent, and unleashes the sealed powers of the three goddess statues which in turn completely rearrange the face of the planet as we know it and ultimately becomes the ruler of the world (That should end the debate right there).
5) In the process, turns and murders his own emperor.
6) In the new world which he has created, he reighns as a god over all of the world.
7) Utilizing a huge laser on top of his fortress, he wreaks havoc on the lands and as you learn in the game, completely orphanizes (<~~ doesn't think thats really a word) an entire town because the parents all died to save their children.
8) He unleashes numerous demons and dragons that are at his command and terrorize and bring fear into the new world (Doom Gaze, Phunbaba, The 8 Dragons).
9) He even has his own zombie like slave followers that worship him, one of which is a main character unless other steps are taken to "bring him back to his senses."
10) Im sure there is a lot more things to Mention... but the biggest reason Kefka is a better villain... HE HAS THAT EVIL AND PSYCHOTIC LAUGH!!

Sephiroth:
1) He burns Nibelheim.
2) Kills Zack... even though no one really knows who he is until way later in the game and by then its just like... "Oh... ok then."
3) Kills Aeris
4) Summons Meteor in an "ATTEMPT" (<~~ Key word) to destroy the world.
5) Kills off some of his own clones (They were useless anyways).
6) Umm.... he wears black? I dont know... he looks cool... yeah... that makes him a better Villain... right -.-

When you compare the two... Kefka is far more sinister and evil and psychotic than Sephiroth ever was.
I mean... Sephiroth was like... the Evil flunky... he didnt even seem that evil to me.
I never grew to hate him... but when Kefka killed off all the Espers... *gasp* That was just plain EVIL!!

This post has been edited by AngelsNecropolis on 7th July 2004 01:44

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Mankind found a God in man.
In his folly tried to make the god his toy.
For that arrogance, mankind was punished.
And the God that man found was lost.
But man continues to resurrect the God.
And from that God, Adam, Man attempted to make
a man who was like a God himself.
And that was Eva.

Anybody else feel that that sephiroth was compensating for something with that big sword. Another reason why Kefka was better!

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If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

It's been covered so well that I have nothing new to add except my vote. Go Kefka.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978