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I've been wanting to start a thread like this for a while, and finally decided to go for it.

Basically, I want this to be discussions about vegetarianism, how you started, what degree (unlabeled, semi-veg, ova-veg, ova-lacto-veg, vegan, etc), basic thoughts about it. You don't have to be a vegetarian or vegan to post here, however, just posting to say negative opinions on vegetarians is not what I'm after. I know vegetarianism isn't for everyone, you don't have to tell me. ^-^

Okay, I started when I was 12/13. I hated the taste of meat, and wanted to shed a few pounds, so I stopped eating red meat. My parents were expecting me to last maybe two weeks, but I kept going with it. It was awkward with my friends for a little while, because I'd eat supper at their houses and thought it was rude to have to tell their parents that I wouldn't eat certain things anymore, but it worked out well enough. Worst case scenario, I'd just eat vegetables and a carb (like bread or pasta) and not eat any meat that was cooked unless it was chicken, turkey or fish.

When I was about 18/19, I was living in my own apt and buying my own food, and didn't like the high prices of meat. So I started eating white meat less often. I was also getting more into the ethical and moral reasons to not eat meat.

Around 19/20, I lived with a friend who started drinking soy milk on a health kick. I tried it, and loved it, giving up milk mostly.

A year later, I started cutting out meat, eggs and dairy entirely, and last christmas (not this one, the one before that), I was decidedly vegan when I went home for 3 days. No meat, no eggs, no dairy. I had gone to a workshop on veganism, and learned more about cruelty to animals in the industry. I was careful to take it with a grain of salt, though.

I'm not a strict vegan. I will occasionally eat sushi, which can involve raw fish, and sometimes I'll have cholate that contains milk, or a spread called nutella that has skim milk in it. I'm not saying it's impossible for me to be a strict vegan, but I try to be realistic about what I want to eat.

Anyway, that's rather long. ^-^ I'd love to hear from other people who dabble in vegetarianism out there, I know there are a couple for certain, anyway. And anyone can ask (intelligent) questions.

For the record, I don't care if anyone around me eats meat, and I don't approve of trying to convert the world. I do believe that some people naturally thrive on a vegetarian diet.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Hrm. I like vegetarians.

Not to eat, obviously. But I'd like to know something about vegans...why is it that eating dairy products is cruel to animals?

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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

Good question.

Well, it could be better explained at a PETA website, or www.vegan.com, but I don't usually recommend those sites to those not interested in becoming vegan/vegetarian, as they can be a bit...excessive.

Anyway, if a cow is on a typical farm and gets milked by the farmer, that's not usually a problem. It can help the cow, if she happens to produce too much milk, and she's not really hurt. However, unfortunately, this is not always what happens.

In a factory, cows are hooked up to machines, and have their calves, for who the milk was made, taken away from them (the calves usually become veal). I'm not sure exactly how much pain a dairy cow is in, but I can't imagine that it'd be fun to have a machine hooked up to you, sucking the milk from your udders (breasts) for hours at a time. Dairy cows are usually killed, too, once they get to a certain age. I read somewhere that they live half the life they could if they were in the wild or on the farm, but I don't always trust statistics.

Some vegans don't consume dairy for other reasons, too. Lactose intolerance is a big one. Plus, it is possible to eat too much dairy, and cause depletion in protein and calcium rather than increase.

To me, it just doesn't seem natural to eat cow's milk.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Okay, I have some questions. I might sound un-caring but I wanna know your point of view.

I believe you said you don't eat meat, for one reason, because of the cruelty to animals. I want to know why you think this is so different from a farmer raising a crop of corn. Then when harvest time comes taking a tractor and mowing down the plants in order to get the cobs easily. I realize that cows can seem more "alive" than a plant, but the plant is still getting killed. This example might be a little stupid in some ways, but I'm just wanting to know more about your view on this.

And second, what do you combine your dieting/veganing (whatever I can't spell) with a form a exercise. In high school I was about ten pounds over weight, so I tried eating less and trying to eat right. Oh, and sit ups A LOT of sit ups. After high school I got into a weight lifting routine that worked some more weight off. But unfortunately I had to quite that because it was taking up too much of my time and I needed that time for school. Anyway I have a little eating trick that might be useful if you're interested. I'm not overweight anymoe (I think) I just need to tone my body.

Also I'm not the biggest person on nutrition. What things to you eat that provides the nutrition that meat does.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

Well,I've wiped myself out after posting a novel in the Double Standards post, so this will be kind of short BUT:

Rujuken,

I can tell there will be some level of contention among us here. Your argument for eating meat is mine against it

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believe you said you don't eat meat, for one reason, because of the cruelty to animals. I want to know why you think this is so different from a farmer raising a crop of corn. Then when harvest time comes taking a tractor and mowing down the plants in order to get the cobs easily. I realize that cows can seem more "alive" than a plant, but the plant is still getting killed. This example might be a little stupid in some ways, but I'm just wanting to know more about your view on this.

I am a vegetarian and have been for over three years now. I eat nothing dead (which has a brain....specifyinf this for all you people who just simply like being antagonistic and telling me that i'm violating the rights of soybeans by eating tofu or something...I'm sick of hearing it from people, quite honestly.). I believe that this raising of animals just to kill them is terrible. Every creature with a brain should have the chance to live a free life and a good life. I hate the idea of having an animal being born, living a miserable life and having its life be cut off much too prematurely -- living in terrible conditions, stuffed into pens with 30 other of the same animal, being chopped up into bits while still ALIVE and able to feel.

It was different back when people were hunters and took what they needed to survive. The animals had at least been free and living their natural lives.

As for nutrition there are countless options for vegetarians and vegans -- meatless cold cuts, Tofu, beans, Gardenburgers ---- there's a substitute for everything out there. It is very possible to live healthily without eating meat.

~E

This post has been edited by murrrr on 24th February 2004 12:58

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With every mistake we must surely be learning
Still my guitar gently weeps

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As for nutrition there are countless options for vegetarians and vegans -- meatless cold cuts, Tofu, beans, Gardenburgers ---- there's a substitute for everything out there. It is very possible to live healthily without eating meat.

I'm very aware of that, thankyou. I was curious what she eats. I wasn't wondering how she gets by without eating ribs.

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I am a vegetarian and have been for over three years now. I eat nothing dead. I believe that this raising of animals just to kill them is terrible. Every creature with a brain should have the chance to live a free life and a good life.

People raise plants just to kill them, hence my corn crop example. I just think life is life whether its a plant or cute little cow that goes moo, and I was wanting to know Elena's point of view on it.

And once you crush that corn with your teeth your eating something dead.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

Quote (Rujuken @ 23rd February 2004 16:10)

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As for nutrition there are countless options for vegetarians and vegans -- meatless cold cuts, Tofu, beans, Gardenburgers ---- there's a substitute for everything out there. It is very possible to live healthily without eating meat.

I'm very aware of that, thankyou. I was curious what she eats. I wasn't wondering how she gets by without eating ribs.

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I am a vegetarian and have been for over three years now. I eat nothing dead. I believe that this raising of animals just to kill them is terrible. Every creature with a brain should have the chance to live a free life and a good life.

People raise plants just to kill them, hence my corn crop example. I just think life is life whether its a plant or cute little cow that goes moo, and I was wanting to know Elena's point of view on it.

And once you crush that corn with your teeth your eating something dead.

I am not a vegetarian, but I see the distinction that is being drawn by murrrr. Unless you can prove to me that corn is a sentient being, then I don't know that you can compare a cow and a stalk apples-to-apples (so to speak).

I wouldn't ever want to be a vegetarian. Honestly, it's not that I have some moral or countermoral stance either way. I'm ambivalent, as I honestly am most things. I just grew up eating meat and I enjoy it.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

There's a difference between a plant life and an animal life. If plants screamed when you cut them, then it'd probably be different, but they don't have brains and they don't feel pain. They're only alive in the sense that they can use the sun and grow from that, and can produce offspring. Also, with corn and the like, that can continue to grow after you take the edible stuff from it. Cows don't magically grow back after they're sawed in half in the meat factory.

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Well, first, about the corn.

If all the cows, pigs, chickens, etc, could be as free from cruelty, and allowed to be in nature, like corn, I would have no problem eating chicken. I wouldn't eat the others, because I don't like the taste of that meat, the only meat I ever actually enjoyed is fowl and fish/seafood.

This might surprise you, but I'm not opposed to hunting. If someone goes out, kills a goose, and cooks and eats it, that is fine in my book. I wouldn't eat it, but still, that is much better, to me, than going to the grocery store and buying a goose. It's sort of like corn, in a way (though you have to deal with pesticides). Corn grows and lives it's cycle in nature, then it's harvested and eaten. True, it was planted somewhere by a farmer, but it's still outside.

Another reason is; I have to eat something, and I choose to eat that which has suffered the least.

As for exercising...I've been at that for years and years. When I was 13, I was in two types of dance classes; jazz and highland. Not exactly karate, but it's exercise. Later on, I was doing weightlifting, and got to use the school's gym during my free period in high school. In University, I had judo, and walked everywhere. My weight problems were gone by about that time, though it comes and goes, really. I just have a very crappy metabolism.

Currently, I run 3 days a week, and am in pretty good shape. I would still do judo, but I haven't found a good dojo in Florida yet.

And, as for food, as "meat substitutes" I eat: tofu, chick peas, lentils, spinach, kale, seeds/nuts, peanut butter, brocolli, soymilk, falafel, soyburgers. That's all I can think of for right now that can take the place of meat.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Well Elena you made you choice and all I say is "Good for you"

It is good to see someone make their own choice and stick by it no matter what people say about them. You've stated your reasons and they are good reasons.
Most of my family is vegetarian and I'm one of the few meat eaters and no one give me a hard time over it. So don't worry about it too much. It's all good.

I'm not a vegetarian for the following reasons:

1. I like the taste of meat.
2. Personally, I don't think my vegetarianism would save the life of a baby cow. I understand that it's more of a moral thing, but either way. As much as I love animals, they're going to die anyways, with or without my help.
3. Too complicated for my tastes. I'd hate to have to watch what I eat 24/7.

I have a lot of respect for most vegetarians and vegans. I understand that some don't like the taste, which is a very plausible reason. Just the same, I don't eat pickles because I don't like the taste. I also agree with those who do not eat meat because they can't see themselves eating a dead animal. I do have a beef (no pun intended) with people who rebel against meat and think that they're going to make a difference in a little cow's life, as well as vegetarians/vegans who don't respect meat eaters.

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

forget how the animals feel, how do the PLANTS feel? yeah, never thought about that, did you?

im an anti vegitarian. only meat. im not killing a poor defensless baby head of lettuce...

Moderator Edit

Ohh, someone didn't read the whole thread. This was actually covered. Unless you think of something intelligent to say, I don't want to see you posting like that again. - Elena99

This post has been edited by Elena99 on 24th February 2004 03:18

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No, really, they do.

I totally agree with Jlombardi13, I love eating meat, it is one of my few pleasures in life, and I respect those who are vegetarians or vegans, but I have no respect for those who try to change my way of life. If you want to be a vegetarian fine, knock yourself out but dont try to change other people with your moral beliefs cause that is wrong. When I see people throw blood on others for eating meat or wearing a fur coat I get pissed off cause that is not the right way of going about things. If you want to eat meat you should be allowed to without having someone come up to you calling you a murderer. It is all about our beliefs and everyone should just respect each others.

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War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

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I am not a vegetarian, but I see the distinction that is being drawn by murrrr. Unless you can prove to me that corn is a sentient being, then I don't know that you can compare a cow and a stalk apples-to-apples (so to speak).

What does sentience have to do with it? A plant knows when its had a limb cut off. How else would it know to regrow it or patch up the spot? Plants bend to get better sunlight. A plant lives just a the same as any cow I've seen. The only difference I see is that a cow can express emotion (maybe I dunno). If thats the reason then just say I don't eat beef because I don't want to make the cow sad. The way I stated that sounds really dumb but you get the idea.

murrr said ??she?? doesn't eat anything dead. I took that literally. There aren't a lot of things that the human body can draw nutrition from that weren't at some point alive.

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I have to eat something, and I choose to eat that which has suffered the least.

Okay, thats a well thought out answer. Very good. Something I've noticed when someone considers another living thing as food, plant or animal, you don't tend to have much respect for it.

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Also, with corn and the like, that can continue to grow after you take the edible stuff from it

Thats because you are just taking its offspring. And large fields of corn are usually chopped down with a tractor to harvest the cobs, so they are being killed not just injured.

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Currently, I run 3 days a week, and am in pretty good shape. I would still do judo, but I haven't found a good dojo in Florida yet.

3 days!? blug I can't run for 10 minutes without getting winded. And yeah, I'd love to live somewhere where there was a good ninjutsu, judo, anything class. But no time for that. Maybe after college.

Peanut butter is good for protein right? And what the hell is a falafel.(can't pronounce it).

I just thouht I'd mention this part. Okay, how many meals do you eat a day? Three? And you eat right and exercise right? Well thats good but here is a little something extra to help. It is healthier for the body to eat about 5 or 6 meals a day instead of 3. Take the amount of food you would eat in a day and space it out instead of eating in sessions. This is a tip a got from a guy I know at work who is training to be a nutritionist. It might be inconvenient for some though.

This next part is just my experience and speculation.
This can have the benefit of you being able to pack around a smaller stomach. If you eat in large portions your stomach has to adjust to accomdate the amount of food you intake at one time. If you don't eat much at a time and space it out your stomach doesn't need to be big. I think an ideal situation would be having something about the size of a small sandwich every two hours.

That might not help, but I thought it was kinda relavent.

Lela: Animals eat other animals. Its nature.
Hippy: No its not! We taught a lion to eat tofu.
Skinny Lion: *cough* *cough*

Sorry but I find that hilarious.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

http://maddox.xmission.com/bigpot6.jpg

Nuff said.

Moderator Edit

That's two, now. What is wrong with you people? This is spam. Showing a picture and saying that does not constitute an intelligent post. I'm aware that a lot of people eat meat. This is a topic about vegetarianism, not eating meat. - Elena99

This post has been edited by Elena99 on 24th February 2004 06:04

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Blood & Fire

Umm, Rujuken, thanks for the advice, but I think you misunderstood. I had problems with my weight and diet when I was younger. I started because of that when I was 13. I'm now 22. ^-^ It's different, now.

Anyway, yes, peanut butter is a great source of protein, however it's also a source of fat, so you need to be careful not to use too much. The average person doesn't even need all that much protein, daily, anyway. And a falafel is something like a burger patty; it's spicy, and consists mostly of mashed chickpeas, garlic, salt, and other spices. You can buy it in powder form, add water, then fry them up in a pan very quickly.

My mom cannot pronounce falafel either, though she tries. It's fah LAH full. Stress on the Lah.

10 minutes is not bad for running, a lot of people can barely do 2. I can go 30 minutes straight, myself. I could probably go longer, but I'm still training, and it's best not to push yourself. I eat about 4 small meals, spaced throughout the day. Sometimes 5 if I get up early/stay up late.


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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Well, the advice (not sure if you could call it that) wasn't just for you, though it was mostly. Okay my sincerestly apologies (funny how whenver I say that it doesn't sound sincere).

Flalafels, okay got it. Bleck doesn't sound that good but oh well I try not to worry what food tastes like. I try to think of it as more of just a source of nutrition. Helps with the temptation a little.

I guess the 10 minutes is because I'm out of shape. I recall doing 30 on a tred mill back when I had time to exercise a lot, so I gues your right.

Again sorry. I didn't keep good track of what you had said.

Hah!! I love the quote. vegan zombie.

This post has been edited by Rujuken on 24th February 2004 07:57

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

elena, even though as you know i dont particularly share the same beliefs or eating habits, i can certainly understand, and i think its ridiculous that someone else would try to insult them. everyone has things that they dont like to eat, which was your original reason not to eat certain meat in the first place. if you don't like it, dont eat it. i dont eat seafood because i just think its nasty, and i wont touch veal just because i dont like the idea of eating a baby animal. and i dont eat lamb just because i think it sucks. i dont eat tofu or meat substitutes simply because i dont like them. theres nothing wrong with not eating what you dont like.

the thing is, like everything else many people on either side of the argument ONLY see their side. i think cruelty is a problem, and i dont agree with many of the ways the animals are treated, and i dont think i need to go into the details of some the things ive seen through my line of work, because all of a sudden, half the people who read this post would become vegetarians themselves. often i hear the phrase "eating dead animals" thrown at me to make me think twice about what im doing, but its just as unneccessary to say something like that to try to deter me from my eating habits as it would be if i said something to try to deter you from yours. when two people are at extreme opposite ends of the same argument, more often than not, both people are wrong. you have you beliefs, you respect everyone elses, and thats very commendable, because some people are just to into themselves to let everyone else live.

maybe i see things in the perspective that i do because i can sort of identify with the situation. vegetarians catch flak from people that simply dont agree with their beliefs, as im sure you probably have, but you should see some of the hardcore vegans and people of that like that come into the shop and hassle me just for doing my job. some people dont have anything better to do, so they bother everyone else.

you made your decision, and you stuck to your guns, so i tip my hat.


and thats from the mouth of a hunter and a butcher, so i think anyone else's shot at bashing vegetarians on this board just went out the window.

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You watch the world exploding every single night
Dancing in the sun, a newborn in the light
Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death
Hello to eternity and live for every breath

Your time will come...

Rujuken --

Well I'm sorry, I evidently wasn't specific enough for you, even though I had specified that I believe any creature WITH A BRAIN should be able to live a free and good life, therefore assuming it was made clear that the "I eat nothing dead" did not apply to brainless organisms. (Though by that standard there are a few spammers in this post who I suppose I could eat ) I have added another reference to creatures with brains in the paragraph in order to prevent further confusion.

Though I hope you didn't think you were making some profound point, as I hear it all the time from people who just want to take the piss out of vegetarians. And , yes, it gets annoying to always have to say "I eat nothing dead" and then someone thinks it's so witty to tell me that vegetables are dead so then sometimes i'll add on "...nothing dead which has eyes..." and then people are like "well do you eat POTATOES? haha they have eyes and they're dead hahaa" and then, despite all my beliefs on animal rights and being against animal cruelty, I have to restrain myself from punching whoever the person is. So yes, just letting you know that you're not saying anything new, nor is anyone else who decides to be an idiot and post the same point again.

This is why I never post here, guys....people make me really mad.

~E



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With every mistake we must surely be learning
Still my guitar gently weeps

Well, I wasn't trying to take the wind out of anyone's sails. I've never talked to a vegan about this before and its something I wanted to know. Plants are alive I don't care how you look at it. You should change your opening phrase to "I eat nothing with a brain" instead of dead. But you did say that the first time around and I didn't pay attention to it so I'm sorry for that.

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-- You're Gonna Carry That Weight --

A lot of good points, made here.

I try not to get too much into what I know about animal cruelty myself, unless asked. Most people don't actualy want to know, or probably shouldn't know, since they have no intention of giving up meat, and don't want to feel guilty about eating it. And that's fine. Meat eaters need just as much respect as vegetarians, and if I said that I didn't respect meat eaters' rights, I would be stepping on the toes of a lot of friends, family members, and my fiance.

I agree that the "but plants are dead too!" phrase has been used before. You may not have realized it, Rujuken, but that is common, and sometimes really annoying, since every vegetarian has heard it before. That doesn't mean we have the right to be upset about it, but..yeah, for future reference, as legitimate as that is, you will rarely meet a vegetarian who has not heard that before. I think I heard it first from my younger sister about 3 months into my vegetarianism, if it took her even that long to think of it.

When a vegetarian says that she eats nothing that is dead, that means animals. Plants aren't counted in it. Just how it is. :-) I think it's because there's an assumption that most people will understand that she means "nothing with eyes" or "nothing with eyes, ears and a nose" (so that potatoes won't be counted, as well as corn >_>)

Oh, there's another great food made with chickpeas called hummus. It's more of a dip or spread, though. You make it with chick peas, sunflower or sesame seeds, sesame oil, water, garlic, and some spices. You can leave out the garlic if that's not your thing. Darnit, I had thought of more meat substitutes last night, but I forgot them. Ah well. ^-^

Edit: I remembered one! Textured Vegetable Protein. TVP for short. You can use it anywhere you'd use ground meat, like in chillies, spaghetti sauces, etc.

Are there anymore vegetarians out there, anyway?

This post has been edited by Elena99 on 24th February 2004 17:27

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

I think that is good that you've decided to follow that lifestyle. To be honest, I could never do it myself.

I also have also seen quite a bit of how animal cruelty, and animals are treated. I understand the extreame measures that are taken while breeding animals for meat.

I think it is great for those who decide they want to have that kind of lifestyle. How ever, I don't agree with how some of them go about it. I know personally, I'd be more open to the idea of vegitarianism, if they didn't go to such extreame measures, and tell me how I am evil. PETA can go a bit overboard on some of their ads. For example, a few months ago, there were PETA people giving a flier out to childeren called something along the lines of "Mommy kills animals!" I don't know if you've seen that, but that is not a flier that should be given to children.

Again, I have no problem with those who choose that lifestyle. That is their personal choice. I just don't like being told I'm a murderer, and a sinner, and I will burn for eating meat. I am sure they'd have more people who would want to listen if they just explained their point of view.

Just my 2 cents.

This post has been edited by Fadien on 24th February 2004 16:34

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"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

"We have canines and bicuspids for a reason: to open packages of potato chips!"
-Congressman Alex Shrub, GTA Vice City

I dont personally agree with the concept of vegtarianism -i follow shrubs statment till the crisps bit- , but like other things, i try to respect the veiws of people where possible, and of course, these days, for us in the developed world, we have choices and dont need to take whats on offer like what evolved/were created to do*. Living in the UK, a nation that is mainly meat-eating in my experience apart from a few people who are vegan/ follow a religious rule of some sort, i note that the vegetarianism movement took off post BSE, which is really wrong. If you want to be a vegetarian, you shoudlnt do it out of fear. Meats as safe as Tofu. But frankly, i dont mind. its their choice, they can live thier lives like they want. But theres the fact that, here at least, no one takes vegitarians seriously.

And its the militants like some sections of PETA that are to blame, and are truly a threat to the idea of vegitarianism. They tar vegetarians with the same brush, and so, most people now think vegitarian=crazy looney who wants meat banned. Which is why no one takes my vegitarian friend seriously...

But theres a few worrying things from Fats Food resteraunts that shoudl be stopped: The fact that vegitarian meals are cooked in animal fat, and also, you knwo the McFlurries at McDonalds and the other fast food Ice Cream?
If it says 'non-dairy product ice cream'. Its probably PIG fat...
Learned that in Maths today. What that had to do with surds, i will never know...

This post has been edited by Del S on 24th February 2004 17:10

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

I basically agree with Neal on this one. Neal makes a great point by saying that plants are only considered "living" organisms because they can make their own food. So, keep that in mind, anti-vegetarians. Now, about the topic at hand...

I eat meat, to put it straight. I respect vegetarians. I also happen to like soyburgers . They actually taste like real hamburger meat. I, personally, could never go vegetarian because there are not many vegetables I like; plain and simple. And please, anyone who tries to use the "well, the plants are living creatures, too!" argument, shut up. As someone has already said--I believe it was Elena--killing a plant with no feelings, no brain, and no life is not the same as pulling a cow's utters until they look like deflated balloons or hacking a pig into tiny pieces until there's nothing left. That's NOT the same thing! Oh, and Red Mages Kick, if you want to stick with your idea that plants are "living" things, then please don't pick flowers, break tree limbs, or, to get technical, walk on the grass!

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Oh, and Red Mages Kick, if you want to stick with your idea that plants are "living" things, then please don't pick flowers, break tree limbs, or, to get technical, walk on the grass!

Although it may be a bit immature, it's still a valid opinion. Plants are alive, but not sentient which his why it's okay for vegiterians to eat them.
Red Mages Kick is allowed to voice his opinion really in a thread like this since it's not exactly offensive (every vegitarian probably knows it's idiotic anyway).

But it's always good to get the wording correct to avoid stupid comments.

Plants are alive, but non-sentient.
Animals are alive and sentient.
Vegitarians do not eat sentient animals. It's impossible to live without eating something that was once living, as someone already said.

I don't eat red meat, not because I'm a vegiterian but because it's horrible. So is pork. The only meat I like is the occasional thin sausage (I have choking problems with big sausages, heh) and chicken.

But I would like to know what the vegitarian views on fish is. I believe fish have brains however do not feel pain - or something like that. I've always classed them as sentient though. I know some people class fish as a type of meat because it's a dead animal, and other say meat and fish are two different things.

So what I want to know is whether vegitarians can eat fish?



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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

Let's consider the debate on plants being sentient closed now and keep the topic to vegetarianism itself.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

A vegetarian can eat fish, certainly, but she'll have trouble calling herself a true vegetarian. Or, at least, a strict one. When I ate fish (and chicken) I called myself semi-vegetarian.

There's probably a name for it. Most people would probably just say "I'm mostly vegetarian, but I eat fish."

I think fish can feel pain, and fear. My uncle used to go fishing all the time, and I'd go with him sometimes. Looking at the fish after they're pulled in...I don't know, something about them flapping about looks like they're scared, and in pain. I mean, they're pretty much being suffocated to death, right? Plus, if you've ever snuck up on a goldfish tank and watched the fish scurry away, you know they feel fear. Fear is what makes an animal run away, and I think it's the same for fish.

It's really iffy, though. I'm not sure if there's any physical proof.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

I don't eat pork or red meat. So I guess I'm a chicked and fish only Vegetarian.

BTY I have never had a good Soy or Veggie Burger. Do good veggie burgers excist?

Quote (Twisted_Freak @ 24th February 2004 17:08)

I don't eat pork or red meat. So I guess I'm a chicked and fish only Vegetarian.

BTY I have never had a good Soy or Veggie Burger. Do good veggie burgers excist?

I find Morningstar's Spicy Black Bean Burger to be just as good or maybe even better than a real hamburger.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Ahh, yes, yes. I knew I would receive criticism from my comment to RMK. It wasn't meant ot be immature, but I guess that's how it came out. Yeah, he does have his right to his opinion...Oh, and Iggy, funny you mention it, but I too have a problem with eating large sausages, such as brautwursts. And some sausage's skin is way too thick for my mouth. Makes me feel like I'm chewing on plastic skin...

Moderator Edit

You're way off topic, man. Let's come back to it. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 25th February 2004 00:42