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This thing has always bugged me, and I need an answer.

Why is it that in certain games, such as FF5 and FFX-2, Samurais have the ability to toss money/change/coins at the enemy for damage? I know that it's a Japanese cultural reference, but what exactly is it in reference too? Does anyone know the story? It looks like maybe it's trying to say that samurais tried to bribe their way out of trouble.

Oh, and if anyone writes back with just "I want to know too!" or "I never noticed that" or "I don't know." I'll shoot you clear out of the thread.



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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Plain and simple...they throw them for luck.
There is no story behind this because of the sheer simplicity of the coin-tossing. Now, how this fits into an FF game is a mystery to me. That's all I know about the coin-tossing. And yes, it DOES seem a bit strange to throw money at someone in the hopes of damaging them. That would be like me throwing quarters at a bully at school in the hopes of reducing his HP to 0...

This post has been edited by @Ss@Ss!N on 1st February 2004 04:45

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"The Hero I am not. I can do naught."

Respect Frog...

You can do it in FFVI with Setzer. You must equip him with a certain relic you find in the Espers cave.

You can also do it in FFVII with the throw materia after you level it up.

I assume its an effective way of fighting for weak rich kids.

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Yeah, I barely post.

Samurais are high on the social ladder, which could mean they were also wealthy (though I don't really think this was the case) so they would have plenty of money to "throw around"?

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

But these aren't weak rich kids, max, they're samurais. They fight with big, pointy swords :-)

I always thought it was odd that Setzer got the ability, though maybe it's just because he's a gambler.

The luck theory also has credibility, but I thought it maybe had something more to it then that.

Hmm, and as for samurais being rich...I imagine some samurai clans were quite wealthy and held in high honour, so that might be it, but ehh...I don't know.

Thanks for trying. Is anyone majoring in Japanese history or something and could maybe poke your professors about samurais and money? They might know something.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Quote (Elena99 @ 2nd February 2004 19:55)

The luck theory also has credibility, but I thought it maybe had something more to it then that.

Dont forget. The coin toss is a non-elemental attack. Maybe it was added to help in situations when you're magic and weapons were useless. I used it alot in the N-Zone for FFV. Square usually puts alot of history behind their games, so I would be interested to learn of it in this case. If there isnt any, well its just and extra way to dispense of Gil I guess.

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Yeah, I barely post.

Who says that Samurais are the only ones to toss coins? Edgar did it, and he's a king for crying out Pete. Of course, it wasn't for an attack. Maybe his next Tool will be a money-sorting machine that spits out coinage...

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Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

Samurai throwing coins is a bit of a mystery to me, but i'd assume it was due to richness. .

A thrown coin can cause major damage, but wont kill*. It can blind you if it hits your eye hard enought, and can split someones head open : 'Extra pay the Hugh Dallas' way was coined , so to speak, when the ref at an old firm game, Mr Dallas, took £2 Ballistic Punds Sterling in the nogging, and was left dazed and bleeding.

*unless you have super-accurate ninja throwing coins...

This post has been edited by Del S on 5th February 2004 13:51

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Elena99 @ 2nd February 2004 19:55)

But these aren't weak rich kids, max, they're samurais. They fight with big, pointy swords :-)

Katanas are single-bladed (cutting) swords, not pointy ones :-)

Quote (Elena99 @ 2nd February 2004 19:55)

I always thought it was odd that Setzer got the ability, though maybe it's just because he's a gambler.

Actually, that one could be it. Wasn't gambling popular then? What else are they gonna do in their leisure time? Samurais didn't start reading and become scholarly until the country came out of Fuedalism.

Quote (Del S @ 3rd February 2004 11:21)

A thrown coin can cause major damage, but wont kill.

It will if you hit someone in the temple.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 4th February 2004 15:41)

Samurais didn't start reading and become scholarly until the country came out of Fuedalism.

From what I remeber, Japan was a Fuedalist country up until the 1860's, and after that, the class of samurai nobility was dissolved. To suggest that samurai didnt read and study until about 140 years ago is a little.........off.

Quote (Smash @ 4th February 2004 19:53)

From what I remeber, Japan was a Fuedalist country up until the 1860's, and after that, the class of samurai nobility was dissolved. To suggest that samurai didnt read and study until about 140 years ago is a little.........off.

I meant reading an amount that would constitute "studying."
When the country was unified the Samurais had nothing to do, so most either became scholars or bureaucrats.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

I've always imagined it as the Samurai as pulling out a handfull of coins and tossing them, then while the enemy is distracted with the barage of coins, either raising his hand to block them from his face, or turning to avoid them hitting his face, the Samurai charging behind with a slashing attack with his sword. That's just me though.

I know they don't do that on the games, but I just imagine it as that... the coins as a distraction for another attack. No japan history behind it (that I'm aware of.)


*shurg*


Edit: I can also see it as him fighting Mercenarys, who would kill their mother if the price was right, and just interested in picking up more cash. But that has no relevance to there being a reason why throwing coins at monsters would do any good.

This post has been edited by Fadien on 7th February 2004 21:35

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"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

It could be about honor. Samurais were taught to fight and not fear death. By throwing cash, they're essentially eliminating a large source of fear. By getting rid of their money, they have less temptation to escape from battle, because they would have nothing left to live on. Just a guess.

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

You've no idea what the old yen looked like, I see.
The old yen were large and heavy coinage. A well aimed coin could easily knock out anybody.
And Samurai usually had pretty much money with them, in case they got disarmed in battle (in such a situation the HAD TO KILL either the enemy or themselves right away. And nobody wants to die if they can avoid it)

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

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Good old CoN

Not a Square Enix game, but there was a SNES game called Legend of the Mystical Ninja, where you were of course a mystical ninja and throwing coins was an option. A smart one at that. As far as it's basis goes, I think that a martial artist is supposed to make weapons out of whatever he's got, heavy coinage included. This would include both samurai's and ninjas since my understanding is that they are different in status and purpose but not in fighting style.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Since nobody can really be sure what Gil looks like, we can't assume they're just like normal pennies or pound coins. Currency can be any size. It may be a large brick as far as we're concerned (although it does say coin, so I doubt that)

Maybe Gil are big and gold and hard like Ankh from Discworld.

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"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." - Rincewind

You can be as self-assertive as you like, just so long as you do what you’re told.” - Granny Weatherwax

"When Mr. Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend" - Sam Vimes to Detritus

Samurai use coins with sharpened edges. They're easy to throw and conceal. Who's going to expect being attacked by deadly money?

Quote (The Ancient @ 26th February 2004 23:29)

This would include both samurai's and ninjas since my understanding is that they are different in status and purpose but not in fighting style.

I believe that ninjas were more closely related to assassins, and Samurai were more like knights. That ninjas would rather stab you in the back, or slit your throat, and Samurai would want to face you in an honorable battle.

Don't quote me on it.



How ever, I think people have some good points here. If Gil were like old style yen, being big and heavy... How could your party carry around 1,000,000 gil?


Then again, how much in Final Fantasys really make quite a bit of sense.


Maybe they have a Bag of Holding.... Hmmmmm....

*walks off pondering the matter at hand*

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"And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped” -Sir Bedevere the Wise

In Konami's "Mystical Ninja" / "Goemon" series, didn't some of the characters throw coins--I don't recall if it was one of the playable character's abilities or a boss attack? That series took place in feudal Japan as well (I think.) So, I would go ahead and say that the coin-throwing in FF comes from the same, japanese influence.

Anyway, I agree with the gambling idea... ESPECIALLY since the ability was given to Setzer in FFVI though I never used it as SLOT was just way too cool.

Gambling Dens were very popular in Japan during the time of the samurai, so I think that the coin toss command may be in reference to that,.

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Je ne t'aime plus,
Mon amour...

Je ne t'aime plus,
Tous les jours...

Samarui is my favorite job in FFV, because of gil toss, a great move, cheap, but good.

my brother just came back from japan and he said that tipping a waiter is considered bad manners and rude, im not sure it that fits in with the topic tho, but maybe the samarai were saying something, hmmm...

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Pretty little fly
Why does it cry?
Caught in a web
Soon you'll be...EATEN

FF6 addicts unite! wanna RP?

What an intriguing topic, one that's gonna drive me nuts until it gets answered. I'll try to add a theory or two...

In feudal Japan, the attainment of material wealth was greatly looked down upon. I'm making some serious generalizations here, but the basic social hierarchy, from group with the highest standing to lowest, went like this: Samurai, Peasants, Artisans, and Merchants. In other words, the moneylenders in society were so looked down upon that farmers who spent their lives slaving away in the fields were considered above them.

Of course, the money lenders were still by far the richest group, and many samurai warriors actually starved to death. Long story short, samurai were expected to live frugal lives, not only forsaking luxury and wealth but feeling contemptuous of it, which is sort of reflected in the way the Japanese perceived merchants. Maybe the throwing of money symbolizes the samurai dedication to poverty.

At any rate, I'll ask my professor when I see her on Monday...but hopefully someone'll have a better answer before then.

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Sabin: ... to Mom... and to Figaro.

"A true classic never goes out of style!"

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.... I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain..."

I happened to be looking at a document today that explained the origins of the name and actions of many of the things in Squares games. I highly suggest a visit there, here's a link Square Name Origins

If you don't go, here's what it says about Coin Toss, seems logical to me.

Coin Toss: Lets you throw coins, obviously. But originally it was named "Heiji no Jitte" (Heiji's Cross) in FF6j. Heiji was a fictional character who threw coins at his enemies, like Setzer.

This post has been edited by Shivy on 2nd April 2004 05:38

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"I was using a metaphor. Someone shut him up before I do it with a knife."- Black Mage, 8-bit Theatre

"I found out what zombies are weak against......Point Blank Annihilation"- Black Mage, 8-bit Theatre

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hmmmm... interesting, thanks for the site!

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Pretty little fly
Why does it cry?
Caught in a web
Soon you'll be...EATEN

FF6 addicts unite! wanna RP?