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Apex Digital and Infinium Labs, companies new to the gaming market, have each designed a console to compete with the industry giants: Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft.

Apex's machine, called the "ApeXtreme," will be released within the next four months and will carry a price tag just under $400.
Details about the ApeXtreme can be found at PCReview.co.uk.

Infinium has yet to give a specific date for release of the "Phantom;" however, the Phantom debuted at the Ultimate Gamers' Expo in Los Angeles last August. The console's expected price range is from $300 to $500.
Details about the Phantom are available at Infinium Labs.com.

Both the ApeXtreme and the Phantom use a modified version of the Windows XP OS and support broadband Internet connection.

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Neither of the machines sound like anything amazing to me; so far they have minimal publisher relationships. However, at least one of the two consoles will have some degree of support for running games designed for PC play, which is an interesting attempt at melding desktop to console gaming.

One other noteworthy piece is the price of each console--compared to the $99 Gamecube, it's hard to see how these virtually unknown companies can compete.

This post has been edited by Phoenix on 17th January 2004 23:16

anyone remeber the Jaguar? anyone having Deja-Vu?
Ape Xtreme's just monekying around.
This "Phantom" doesnt seem like its going to materialise, does it?

and as for those price tags, they must be banana's. If i were them, I'd take N-gages example and give up the ghost.

This post has been edited by Del S on 17th January 2004 23:22

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Del S @ 17th January 2004 11:20)

Ape Xtreme's just monekying around.

Yeah, apparently it's supposed to be pronounced "Apex Extreme." I don't know what they were thinking when they chose that spelling.

for some reason this thread makes me wanna sing that old Queen song...
"dun dun dun, another one bites the dust..." in all seriousnesss, i don't plan on buying either and i don't know anybody that does. How can they hope to compete?

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<Nealio> Seymour sounds like evil Winnie the Pooh

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However, at least one of the two consoles will have some degree of support for running games designed for PC play, which is an interesting attempt at melding desktop to console gaming.

Does anyone out there wonder why? Computers are always good for playing games and for just about anything else, and a lot of the time, they are even better than consoles. At least one of these companies are smart in this respect.

About me ever buying the consoles, it will never happen in that price range. *whoove* The price just knocks the wind right outta me.

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Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

Quote (Figaro @ 17th January 2004 18:18)

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However, at least one of the two consoles will have some degree of support for running games designed for PC play, which is an interesting attempt at melding desktop to console gaming.

Does anyone out there wonder why? Computers are always good for playing games and for just about anything else, and a lot of the time, they are even better than consoles.

However, a large number of PC games are designed with PC players in mind--computer monitors have incredibly sharp pictures and a large number of pixels that even modern HDTVs have trouble keeping up with. Additionally, computer gamers are usually perhaps a maximum of three feet away from their monitor, while console gamers are often resting on a couch a few yards away from the television.
Because of these two factors, computer games are often very detailed and would look, in my opinion, less than flattering on a TV screen. Take Diablo II, for example: Many of the items in that game are miniscule when dropped on the playing field, and picking those up with a mouse on a TV screen could be a big hassle.

-Phoenix

True, that could be a bit of a hassle...

Does anyone know what sorts of games and companies who will be releasing games will be coming out for these platforms? Cause if theres some really awesome game that will only ever come out for the system, there's a possibility that I might get it.

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Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

I agree with the majority of posters--I don't think these are going to be very popular. But, then again, who knows? They could surprise us. *shrug* All I know for sure is that I definitely wouldn't blow $400 on a new console that might not even stick around. I'm sticking with Sony.

The idea of playing computer games on the console sounds like fun--I know I'd like to be able to play a couple of mine, and if that extended to viewing VCDs, I'd be a lot more tempted, but I don't really see how they can realistically expect to support all PC games. My *computer* doesn't even support all of the games I own.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

I hope they wouldn't try and push "PC games on a TV" as a particular selling point, since for much less than the cost of these you can equip your existing PC with a graphics card with TV-Out, and whack a USB gamepad in if you want the full effect. (Nice setup for more authentic emulation, by the way.)

I think these will probably go the way of the 3DO or VM Labs' Nuon (anyone remember that?) since that's just always what happens. Though, I must say, I'm tempted to buy anything titled "Ape Extreme".

If these guys are actually serious about getting into the game, let's just hope they didn't screw up as badly as Microsoft did.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 19th January 2004 09:51)

If these guys are actually serious about getting into the game, let's just hope they didn't screw up as badly as Microsoft did.

I would assume you mean "Nokia" where you said "Microsoft."

Microsoft has put together a decent showing for their first ever outing, if you ask me. Hasn't the XBox outsold the NGC overall? Of course, the NGC is selling buckets now, since they cut the price so low. But I don't see how Microsoft has failed so badly.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Rangers51 @ 19th January 2004 11:32)

I would assume you mean "Nokia" where you said "Microsoft."

No, I mean Microsoft. The XBox is horrible. If these guys followed MicroSoft's lead, and did as badly, it would be the official beginning of the decline of video games. Quality is already at an all-time low, and calling newer systems an upgrade of previous ones is laughable.

This post has been edited by Dark Paladin on 19th January 2004 16:39

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 19th January 2004 11:38)

Quote (Rangers51 @ 19th January 2004 11:32)

I would assume you mean "Nokia" where you said "Microsoft."

No, I mean Microsoft. The XBox is horrible. If these guys followed MicroSoft's lead, and did as badly, it would be the official beginning of the decline of video games. Quality is already at an all-time low, and calling newer systems an upgrade of previous ones is laughable.

What color is the sky in your world?

Your personal opinion about the X-Box hardly overshadows the fact that it's one of the three leading consoles. I don't own one, but I know plenty of people who do, and they even *like* it.

And what's this "decline of video games" and "quality is already at an all-time low" stuff? I *love* the fact that Sony upgrades its only systems instead of scrapping it and starting over--it's half the reason I bought a PS2 in the first place, and I'm mighty satisfied with mine. In fact, I think all of the companies should incorporate that into their marketing theory. And video games seem like they're at an all-time high, to me! This beats the hell out of the days of my Adam with Burger Time and stuff. So, really, DP...sky? color?

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

DP regardless of actuall sales it would take a lot more to hurt microsoft than it would to hurt sony or nintendo but josh did have a point saying nokia thay goofed big- the hand-held market is sown up by GBA

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Failure is not an option. its an art form

Quote (karasuman @ 19th January 2004 11:46)

Your personal opinion about the X-Box hardly overshadows the fact that it's one of the three leading consoles. I don't own one, but I know plenty of people who do, and they even *like* it.

And what's this "decline of video games" and "quality is already at an all-time low" stuff? I *love* the fact that Sony upgrades its only systems instead of scrapping it and starting over--it's half the reason I bought a PS2 in the first place, and I'm mighty satisfied with mine. In fact, I think all of the companies should incorporate that into their marketing theory. And video games seem like they're at an all-time high, to me! This beats the hell out of the days of my Adam with Burger Time and stuff.

OK, so replace "upgrade" with "improvement."
You can easily tell the difference between an NES game and SNES game just by looking at it; You can easily tell the difference between SNES and PSX just by looking at the game; hell, you can tell the difference between SNES and Genesis just by looking at it, but if you want to tell the difference between a PSX and PS2 game, you'll be sitting there for a few minutes. That shows how much technology has advanced.
Video games are easier now. Just look at the difference between FFI and any of the PSX FFs. FFI, you went into battle as estimated equals. In the newer ones, you are capable of clearing a dungeon or two without healing, and then it's free.
Video games are no longer about game play, they are about pretty graphics (and there's enough graphics whores to keep it that way).
Longer =/= better.

You have obviously never played the XBox. It is the worst of the three newest consoles (and still worse than a few older ones). Extra features must be bought in pieces. As comfortable as the controller is, you still have to dance with your thumbs to use it. Plus, no matter how long I played with it, I still had to keep looking back at the controller. All good games that are on it are also for the PS2 and GameCube, except Halo, which I think can be bought for the PC.

And yes, the NGage was bad, too. The commercials make it look like the GameGear is of higher quality.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 19th January 2004 12:27)

You can easily tell the difference between an NES game and SNES game just by looking at it; You can easily tell the difference between SNES and PSX just by looking at the game; hell, you can tell the difference between SNES and Genesis just by looking at it, but if you want to tell the difference between a PSX and PS2 game, you'll be sitting there for a few minutes. That shows how much technology has advanced.
Video games are easier now. Just look at the difference between FFI and any of the PSX FFs. FFI, you went into battle as estimated equals. In the newer ones, you are capable of clearing a dungeon or two without healing, and then it's free.
Video games are no longer about game play, they are about pretty graphics (and there's enough graphics whores to keep it that way).
Longer =/= better.

You have obviously never played the XBox. It is the worst of the three newest consoles (and still worse than a few older ones). Extra features must be bought in pieces. As comfortable as the controller is, you still have to dance with your thumbs to use it. Plus, no matter how long I played with it, I still had to keep looking back at the controller. All good games that are on it are also for the PS2 and GameCube, except Halo, which I think can be bought for the PC.

I happen to like the fact that I can actually play the video games coming out now. I totally sucked at the original FF--the imps massacred me. There are all kinds of ways to play the new games at "low level" or "no sphere grid" if you're not being challenged enough. That hardly means that the games are all about graphics.

Speaking of graphics, try comparing FFVII to FFX. No difference? Yeeeeah.

I've played an X-Box. I don't own one, but I've played one and seen a few different games. I maintain that it beats the hell out of Game Cube.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

I actually agree with DP. Sure, one's opinion on if they dislike XBox for this or that reason is irrelevant to the sales, but I think, as Rangers pointed out, the GC is ahead of the XBox now, putting XBox in last place in the console race between the big three (GBA sales, especially, have helped Nintendo I believe). But then, as Rangers also pointed out, XBox IS a newcomer, and did alright, though nowhere near as good as compared to how Sony did on its launch of the PSX (...in '95?).

But I do agree with DP on the point that the "golden age" of video gaming seems to be fading fast, even in FF/Square games. Some may rush to disagree with me, but when's the last time you had fun when you were playing a game like FF6 or Chrono Trigger? Sure, the new FFs have been great, but still don't quite compare to the classics. Unfortunately, the selling point is for a game to have the most possibly realistic graphics. I wouldn't mind - in fact I'd be delighted - if a solid RPG came out for the PS2 that was two dimensional. But that probably wouldn't go over well with a lot of people, and it wouldn't sell well, regardless of the fun factor.

Finally, I've played all three consoles, and bought two - the PS2 and GC. First, I like the consoles/controllers better for the above mentioned systems than the Xbox, and second Nintendo develops excellent games (Metroid Prime, The Wind Waker), and Square is mostly affiliated with Sony, so just that was the deciding factor for getting the PS2.

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SPEKKIO: "GRRR...That was most embarrassing!"

Quote (The_Pink_Nu1 @ 19th January 2004 16:34)

But I do agree with DP on the point that the "golden age" of video gaming seems to be fading fast, even in FF/Square games. Some may rush to disagree with me, but when's the last time you had fun when you were playing a game like FF6 or Chrono Trigger? Sure, the new FFs have been great, but still don't quite compare to the classics. Unfortunately, the selling point is for a game to have the most possibly realistic graphics. I wouldn't mind - in fact I'd be delighted - if a solid RPG came out for the PS2 that was two dimensional. But that probably wouldn't go over well with a lot of people, and it wouldn't sell well, regardless of the fun factor.

Sadly, most people who voice this opinion will never like anything as much as their "all-time favorite" because they're psychologically unprepared to do so. I happened to have had just as much fun playing Final Fantasy X as I ever did playing FFVI or Chrono Trigger. I think the new systems are making vast improvements, and not all of them favor graphics over all else. If anything, one of the reason I enjoy new RPGs is because of the more realistic dialogue. I'm watching my boyfriend play FFV right now, and I can't help but wonder how much cooler it would seem it the characters actually talked. I don't even mean talked as in "out loud, with voices." The nuances of meaning that modern games communicate in dialogue are far more artfully done than before. And why can they fit so much more text into a game? Technological advancements.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote (karasuman @ 19th January 2004 17:46)

Quote (The_Pink_Nu1 @ 19th January 2004 16:34)

But I do agree with DP on the point that the "golden age" of video gaming seems to be fading fast, even in FF/Square games. Some may rush to disagree with me, but when's the last time you had fun when you were playing a game like FF6 or Chrono Trigger? Sure, the new FFs have been great, but still don't quite compare to the classics. Unfortunately, the selling point is for a game to have the most possibly realistic graphics. I wouldn't mind - in fact I'd be delighted - if a solid RPG came out for the PS2 that was two dimensional. But that probably wouldn't go over well with a lot of people, and it wouldn't sell well, regardless of the fun factor.

Sadly, most people who voice this opinion will never like anything as much as their "all-time favorite" because they're psychologically unprepared to do so. I happened to have had just as much fun playing Final Fantasy X as I ever did playing FFVI or Chrono Trigger. I think the new systems are making vast improvements, and not all of them favor graphics over all else. If anything, one of the reason I enjoy new RPGs is because of the more realistic dialogue. I'm watching my boyfriend play FFV right now, and I can't help but wonder how much cooler it would seem it the characters actually talked. I don't even mean talked as in "out loud, with voices." The nuances of meaning that modern games communicate in dialogue are far more artfully done than before. And why can they fit so much more text into a game? Technological advancements.

Quoted for truth.

I almost shudder when I hear someone say "the golden age of gaming." Nostalgia is a powerful thing. It's easy to look through its rose colored lenses. There were just as many crappy games back then just as there are today, maybe even more then though. Those just aren't remembered, unless they are horribly awful such as Square's Tom Sawyer.

It annoys me when "gamers" become 8-bit or 16-bit elitists, which seems to be the "hip" thing nowadays. A good game is a good game.

This post has been edited by SSJ_Cloud on 20th January 2004 01:28

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

This whole console war thing is kinda stupid if you take a step back and look at it. Each cosole has its strengths and weaknesses. For example, if u love RPGs i would not recommend the Xbox, i would tell you to buy a PS2, however, if first person shooters were your bag, i'd say go with the Xbox. The gamecube is good at action/platformers. Sales don't indicate how much a system is worth or how good it is, i'm sure not everyone will agree with me here, but the Dreamcast was an awsome system, yet it didn't nearly sale as well as the PS2. But that dosn't mean it was a bad system. And there are some benefits to the console wars (especially if u own all three consoles), the most of which is that developers are forced to develop beter games in order to attract more gamers to a specific platform.

In summation, microsoft did not do a bad job. They just had a different apporach. These two new systems? they r doing a bad job.

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It annoys me when "gamers" become 8-bit or 16-bit elitists, which seems to be the "hip" thing nowadays. A good game is a good game.

Amen brother...



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<Nealio> Seymour sounds like evil Winnie the Pooh

Come now responders, I didn't really take THAT vehement of a stance. I love the new FF games, FFX especially. I prefer to think that I'm not psychologically inept or making a "hip" statement, rather, I really did enjoy playing FF6 and Chrono Trigger more than RPGs released since then. And I really do think that was the "golden age" (yes, I'll stick with my generic title) of video gaming. Either that, or maybe I just enjoy video games less as I get older, which is a scary thought. I dunno.

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If anything, one of the reason I enjoy new RPGs is because of the more realistic dialogue

I've always enjoyed FF games because they're an escape from reality, which in general tends to be dull and boring. After all, that's why some of us read books and play video games right?

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It's easy to look through its rose colored lenses

I'll be the first to agree with you that nostalgia's extremely powerful, because I become a more and more sentimental fool every day. However, I'd have to disagree that I'm looking through rose colored lenses, because I'm still playing FF4 and FF6 now, more so than even the newer games.

C'mon guys it's all opinion though, ease up on me will ya?

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SPEKKIO: "GRRR...That was most embarrassing!"

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 19th January 2004 12:27)

Video games are easier now. Just look at the difference between FFI and any of the PSX FFs. FFI, you went into battle as estimated equals. In the newer ones, you are capable of clearing a dungeon or two without healing, and then it's free.
Video games are no longer about game play, they are about pretty graphics (and there's enough graphics whores to keep it that way).

Hey, this is getting hectic... but let me contribute. Seeing as nothing in FF1 nor FF6 was as hard for me as FF7's Emerald Weapon or (considering I couldn't beat them) FFX's Ultima Buster or Shinryu or Neslug, well, I'd say that games aren't all easy eye-candy anymore, even though I tend to prefer more pre-Playstation games than not, so I'm no graphics sex-worker but there are still enough great games to keep a guy busy in my opinion.

On another note, is this Apex the same Apex that makes those crappy 50 dollar DVD players? If so, then I hope it fails

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Get me off this Disciplinary Committee so I can play any FF except for FF8!!!

Does anyone here play any games that are not RPGs? The argument of whether old Final Fantasies are better than new FFs or not is irrelevant in talking about whether games in general are better.

Anyone know a first person shooter on any system ever better than Halo? How about the advances in Action/Adventure games, a la Zelda: Wind Waker? Would any of you argue that an atari/NES racing game is better than Grand Turismo 3?

Some game developers are focusing on the wrong elements (for example, Square), but the fact is that more can be done with the systems now then ever before. Better AI, larger worlds, more realism...the list could go on forever.

Some games are getting easier, it's true...but a some are getting harder. Play through Shinobi and tell me you've played a harder game before. Or Halo on legendary. It seems like you're only focusing on the classics of old, whereas you point to all the trash games coming out now. Keep in mind, there were a lot of terrible games on the older systems, it's just that no one remembers them. If you're going to use only 3 or 4 examples of SNES games (so far all I've heard is Chrono Trigger, FFIV, and FFVI), you've got to pit them against the best this generation has to offer.

Except RPGs...I'll grant that they've deteriorated a bit, though I still liked FFX.

This post has been edited by io_rage on 28th January 2004 02:07

Quote (Ejoty @ 25th January 2004 18:58)

Hey, this is getting hectic... but let me contribute. Seeing as nothing in FF1 nor FF6 was as hard for me as FF7's Emerald Weapon or (considering I couldn't beat them) FFX's Ultima Buster or Shinryu or Neslug, well, I'd say that games aren't all easy eye-candy anymore, even though I tend to prefer more pre-Playstation games than not, so I'm no graphics sex-worker but there are still enough great games to keep a guy busy in my opinion.

The overall hardness of a game typically does not take completely optional enemies into account. If you elect not to fight any of said monsters, would you still count those games as all that challenging?

As for the state of video games today, it's all relative. Each person is going to find something they like or don't like about each game they play; as it has been, as it should be. If a certain type or quality of game is being produced en masse, there's obviously a niche for them in the market, and it's not our place to outright defame them just because we don't like them. It is true that a new generation of games are being produced, and they're not always going to appeal to everyone who grew up with the older games; but people who pick up these games are probably going to be saying the same thing later on down the road. But just because these games are different than what you're used to doesn't mean they don't have merit. I mean, who wants to play variations on FF VI and CT for all eternity? Change is good, even though some results may not be.

I think one of the biggest problems is that people are playing newer games while holding them up to what they consider the pinnacle of their gaming experience. If you do that to every game you come across, OF COURSE you're not gonna like them as much. What you need to do is create a frame of no reference in your mind when you play a new game. Play it like it's the first time you've played any game of that genre. Be excited about the prospect of going on a new adventure, instead of having a "this better be as good as (such and such)" mentality. I guarantee you will find more to your liking, and after you've played it once or twice, then go back and compare and contrast. You may be surprised.

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"N'GHAAA!
This is heavier than I thought! It'll take me 5 more minutes to drop it!" ~ Ultros

Just something in the defense of Microsoft... I've heard that Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox is amazingly hard... I haven't played it myself but everyone I have talked to including a member here at CoN say that it takes like 20 tries just to beat a boss, meaning that the first boss is even as hard... last time I checked, a boss is not optional. You have to beat him/her in order to advance through the game... as far as graphics go, I don't think they are as great on the Xbox as everyone says they are but the Xbox is still a good system IMO... hell, try beating Mechassault on the hardest setting and then tell me that all video games have gone soft.

Edit

also, does anyone know when I will be able to find these new consoles...this is the only place I have heard of them from.

This post has been edited by Sephiroth on 11th June 2004 02:30

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Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles