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Sad...isn't it ?
Sad that Nintendo is dying. I don't want to believe it, but the company is shattering. Just like Sega once did (and still are for that matter). Sega and Nintendo, both ruled the video game market once in a time. But that time is over. It now seems that Sony and Micosoft are the ones who will continue the battle. Sure, Nintendo still makes some good money on the game boy advance, but that won't last to long. I'm not saying that I dislike the Ps2 or the Xbox, I'm just saying that it's tragic that the two companies that basically created the video game market, are dying. It's not fair. They've fought for so long...for what? To be crushed by Sony and Microsoft?

I also have a question for you: What on earth are Nintendo thinking with ?!
Connectivity (An excuse for not going online) ? Toys (Yepp, belive it or not) ? Cooperation with Hotwheels (... can it get any worse ?) ? Oh my God ! What about the games ?
I remember when the executive director of Nintendo was asked this question: Why doesn't the Gamecube have a DVD installed ? And did you know what his respond was ? Executive director:We didn't think that it would be nessecary with a DVD, since our main priority is to offer good quality games.

Yeah right !

Please share your feelings about this.
And remember !!!!!
This is only my personal view on this ! No hard feelings...ok ?

This post has been edited by Amido on 18th November 2003 22:43

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-The brave do not fear the grave-

Agreed, I've been fearing such a thing for years now, ever since the nintendo 64 came out. The playstation just had more, continue to have more, and will crush Nintendo if they don't start stepping up to the innovative Sony and emerging Microsoft.

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At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

Atari created video games, and they didn't have nearly the life-span Nintendo already has, so they actually did pretty well.

This post has been edited by Dark Paladin on 19th November 2003 19:38

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Yes, it certainly looks bad. Nintendo were the ones who made me become a gamer. My childhood memories are just a stream of great Nintendo games (and other games too, of course! Square games, for example!).

But nowadays, they aren't doing much that impress me. I mean, okay, the new Zelda and Mario are great, but nowhere near the old games. And it's annoying that GameCube hasn't got a DVD. And no matter what Shigeru says, Nintendo are making children's games!

But perhaps they won't go down. I mean, they could very well rise again someday. Let's keep the faith!

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People say I'm a slow learner, but I type fast!

I think it would be extremely myopic to call this time the "fall of Nintendo," as the company still gets a decent share of profits, has a sizable hold overseas, and has a veritable stranglehold over the handheld market.

That being said, the Gamecube isn't exactly a cash cow. But Nintendo's hardware has oftentimes taken a backseat to the true genius of their first-party games. The Gamecube versions of Zelda, Super Smash Bros, and Metroid have all been great, and more recent games such as Viewtiful Joe (to say nothing of the upcoming MGS: Twin Snakes) are wonderful.

What does perplex me, however, is the success of the X-box. It's so obviously inferior to both of its contemporaries, so why does it sell at all? Perhaps it is the most powerful hardware, but this means next to nothing when stacked up against the veritable wasteland of games to accompany the Box. If given the choice, I would surely prefer inferior hardware with superior games.

But I digress. Nintendo is going through some hard times, but I think it's overly pessimistic to say that they're dying in any way, shape, or form.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 19th November 2003 02:31

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I think nintendo started doing bad after they stopped selling rpgs. The last ones I played were Quest64 which was okay and OgreBattle64 both for the N64. I don't think there are any gamecube rpgs but I might be wrong. I thought most of the gamecube games seemed to be for a younger crowd not so much teens or above. Its pretty sad, they had Zelda and Mario. I feel that out of all their systems gamecube could have been much better.

This post has been edited by Vicks on 19th November 2003 02:16

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Hiding only delays the inevitable.

If the rise of the PS1 proved anything, it's how quickly things can turn around in the industry. The PS2 itself struggled early in life, but really won out from being out so much earlier than the Gamecube and Xbox (the Dreamcast comfortably beat it out, but in spite of a great software lineup, was sadly neglected).

Part of the problem is that the PlayStation series appeals to an additional market of "casual gamers" that 16-bit consoles never really reeled in, and that the success of the PS1 has led to PlayStation being the brand name synonymous with gaming (just like, years before, people would talk about "playing Nintendo" as a general term). This automatically gives Sony a huge advantage with less discerning punters. And more advantage means more games sold, which means more games made for the system, and so on, shutting out the competition.

Think about the games that differentiate the three systems. In a technical sense, there's little reason why any of the games couldn't be ported across all three. The difference comes with who third parties will get most money out of developing for, and the PS2 generally built up a lead in this area by being preordained as the victor of this generation's console war before it was even released. Sony has somewhat deeper pockets to pay for exclusive deals for certain franchises, as well, but I think this is a secondary concern to potential sales.

The PS1 partly got ahead by Sega and Nintendo simultanously messing themselves. They've been doing well so far, but I can't believe they'll be the perfect console manufacturer forever. The balance will tip somehow, eventually, in someone else's favour. I hope so, at least, if only to make things interesting.

In the mean time, why not try some classic 2D gameplay on the GBA? In my opinion, embarassing lighting issues and lack of buttons aside, it's the best thing on offer at the moment, proving that 2D games still do have some kick, and "retrogaming" is not all just a load of pointless nostalgia. If Sony's new effort manages to topple the GBA from its handheld perch, though - that's when Nintendo really needs to show its worry-frowns.

I think this penny-arcade comic strip gives a good reason for Nintendo's decline...people don't seem to be willing to give new series a chance, so the thing in the strip happens.

Edit

There is a curse word, so the easily-offended be wary..
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-02-28&res=l

And unfortunately for the GBA, it seems like ported games is all that's going for it. Sure, people will enjoy playing classic games at first, but then they'll start realizing that they're just paying money for games they've already played.

This post has been edited by Neal on 19th November 2003 05:46

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

The Gamecube offered nothing new from the N64. They had the same game types, same game makers, same rehashed ideas. I can't wait to see Nintendo design a new system and put the exact same games on it. The reason why Nintendo keeps making games based on the same old ones is simply because it's something everyone recognizes. They're playing on nostalgia. Unfortunately this makes Nintendo a company tailored to a small segment, therefore it's systems can't outgrow the competition.

It's time for Nintendo to reinvent themselves and actually do it instead of just talking about it. They still have the first party developing power to come up with some killer new games. What if they focused their energies into an RPG that rivals Square's FF games? That would be a stunner, and Nintendo would grab a lot of attention. No Nintendo, the RPG shouldn't include Mario, Luigi, Link, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Metroid and Pikachu. Or if an RPG isn't the best choice, how about something else original?

Ditch the kiddie characters!

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

I welcome the fall of GameCube, its how I got mine for $120 new with Mario Sunshine and a Memory card + a game of choice that was used (Eternal Darkness).

Actually, Im sad to see it go. I grew up on Nintendo consoles, and its weird thinking that they are finally done...

/me wipes a tear

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I reject your reality and substitute my own...

Actually Nintendo announced that they will show something at the next E3 that's different from the traditional console. That's interesting. Does anyone know more about this?

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

There were rumours Nintendo are going to follow Sega's lead and become a third party producer. My guess at E3 may'be something on those lines. I pray to God I'am wrong.

I am sorry to point out that sony going into the games industry was already financially successful. The fact is that sony have always taken the lead on producing the latest technology, and that when the playstation was produced sony had a good chance of crushing the nintendo and sega corp's in the gaming world just through the good name that they had aquired. I think that the playstation and the playstation 2 consoles are great and that business is war, so if sony take over the gaming industry with their consoles then we should not really argue, however I do realize that nintendo games were great and that nintendo will be missed if they end up relinquishing their position in the gaming industry.

Quote (Alastor33 @ 19th November 2003 20:15)

I am sorry to point out that sony going into the games industry was already financially successful. The fact is that sony have always taken the lead on producing the latest technology, and that when the playstation was produced sony had a good chance of crushing the nintendo and sega corp's in the gaming world just through the good name that they had aquired. I think that the playstation and the playstation 2 consoles are great and that business is war, so if sony take over the gaming industry with their consoles then we should not really argue, however I do realize that nintendo games were great and that nintendo will be missed if they end up relinquishing their position in the gaming industry.

Y'know, hes on the ball there...

And Nintendo would be missed. where would we all be without Game Boy, Eh? ah the memories... Worms... er, Worms... Worms again...

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Alastor33 @ 19th November 2003 14:15)

I am sorry to point out that sony going into the games industry was already financially successful. The fact is that sony have always taken the lead on producing the latest technology, and that when the playstation was produced sony had a good chance of crushing the nintendo and sega corp's in the gaming world just through the good name that they had aquired. I think that the playstation and the playstation 2 consoles are great and that business is war, so if sony take over the gaming industry with their consoles then we should not really argue, however I do realize that nintendo games were great and that nintendo will be missed if they end up relinquishing their position in the gaming industry.

I find your argument unsound. Nintendo has never had a year where it took a loss since going public in Japan 40 years ago, if I read the news article on these forums correctly. Therefore, the financial stability is not really a defining argument.

Nintendo has taken the wrong steps with the NGC in many areas. One that was not a miscue was making the GBA link to the NGC. When the console is as cheap as the handheld, a lot of people will buy both. Nintendo will sell a ton of consoles this Christmas based on price alone.

In fact, I think the entire point that started the thread is off base. But it's my opinion, not yours, so I won't try to convince you.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Rangers51 @ 19th November 2003 15:50)

Quote (Alastor33 @ 19th November 2003 14:15)

I am sorry to point out that sony going into the games industry was already financially successful.  The fact is  that sony have always taken the lead on producing the latest technology, and that when the playstation was produced sony had a good chance of crushing the nintendo and sega  corp's in the gaming world just through the good name that they had aquired.  I think that the playstation and the playstation 2 consoles are great and that business is war,  so if sony take over the gaming industry with their consoles then we should not really argue,  however I do realize that nintendo games were great and that nintendo will be missed if they end up relinquishing  their position in the gaming industry.

I find your argument unsound. Nintendo has never had a year where it took a loss since going public in Japan 40 years ago, if I read the news article on these forums correctly. Therefore, the financial stability is not really a defining argument.

Nintendo has taken the wrong steps with the NGC in many areas. One that was not a miscue was making the GBA link to the NGC. When the console is as cheap as the handheld, a lot of people will buy both. Nintendo will sell a ton of consoles this Christmas based on price alone.

In fact, I think the entire point that started the thread is off base. But it's my opinion, not yours, so I won't try to convince you.

i don't see how your points, while true, counter his argument. even if nintendo never had a financial loss, sony has always been a forerunner in all kinds of technology. sony's name for making a good product most likely influenced ps sales AND coming into the industry they had a lot more money to play around with as far as advertising, bidding for developers, etc...that nintendo, while they had at the time of the ps2's emergence, certainly didn't have when they were just starting. i think that's all he's trying to say -- sony's previous status as a leader in Big Technology gave them a jump start into console gaming.

Quote (Rangers51 @ 19th November 2003 15:50)

In fact, I think the entire point that started the thread is off base. But it's my opinion, not yours, so I won't try to convince you.

I totally agree. It annoys me when I see all these people running around announcing the death of Nintendo when they are far from out of the race. Sure, they have made mistakes, but its not like you can count them out already.

GC is doing decently well, of course it won't be Nintendo's main source of income anytime soon, but its still bringing in some respectable cash. If you're getting all worked up about the lack of a DVD player, if I remember correctly they did this so it would be much harder to bootleg games. I think this was a pretty good decision since Sony lost so much money from pirating on the PSO. Yes, they have made some mistakes with third-party developers, thinking that they could carry it all on their own. But overall, GC is not a failing piece of trash. And no, I don't want to hear how Nintendo only releases one good game every 6 months, because that one good game is absolute gold.

And you're saying that Nintendo will fail in the handheld market because they only sell nostalgia. First of all, a lot of people buy for nostalgia. Second of all, Nintendo may be somewhat stupid, but not that stupid. They make plenty of new games that are extremely good that are definitely not just ports. Basically, GBA = Lotsa money.

Also, Japan. Japan loves Nintendo. More than XBox, anyway. Nintendo will always have Japan for profit.

And all that stuff about the kids market. Honestly, I will admit that they have more games for children than the other consoles. Well, I guess they're smart because kids play games too. You all are crying about it because you're not kids anymore, and you want more teen games. However, teens aren't the only market in the business. Besides, if you put away all that tough-guy "I'm too old for this crap" attitude, you might find that some of these "kids games" are extremely enjoyable.

So, I really think that saying that Nintendo is going down the drain is just not a valid statement at all. Nintendo is doing just fine, if you ask me. Not as good as before, but still just fine.

This post has been edited by Kappa the Imp on 19th November 2003 23:22

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I find your lack of faith disturbing...

Quote (gozaru~ @ 19th November 2003 17:15)

sony's previous status as a leader in Big Technology gave them a jump start into console gaming.

I'll give you that my points don't directly counter his argument. But your points don't seem to support it, either. Nintendo got successful in the industry independent of being a technology franchise for years on end. Sony got a foothold because Nintendo essentially let them.

Had Nintendo not screwed up the N64 and instead made it an optical-media system, things would likely be pretty different now.

But again, it's all conjecture, so kindly don't tell me I'm wrong.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Sony is a name that attracts a lot of casual gamers because the mass public is already familiar with their electronic products. Nintendo's image as making products for a niche market has kept the masses away. The Playstation has a much cooler image thanks to the fact that it's a Sony, and everyone has accepted it. When people trick out their cars, what console do they install in their car? A Playstation of course. Even music artists glorify Sony's system.

Sega tried to do what Sony did, but Sony did it better. Nintendo never even tried.

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FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

You say you would buy Nintendo if there were a greater variety of games, but third party publishers would make a greater variety of games if you bought Nintendo. It's viciously circular. It has very little to do with Nintendo or Sony themselves, IMO, and everything to do with the momentum of the industry since the success of the PlayStation and the comparative failure of the N64 and Saturn.

The Dreamcast was an excellent console. It had some fantastic games, and certainly better selection than we saw from the N64. But noone bought it, because it didn't say Sony on it. While that continues to be the case, maybe Nintendo will indeed have no hope on the non-portable console front, but it makes me mad, because it's not really anything they're doing wrong.

And let's not forget, the PS2 had a massive launch-time lead over Nintendo and Microsoft's consoles yet again. I honestly think that things might have been a little different if they'd all launched at once, with no extensive software library already in place for the PS2 (yes, PS1 games, but why buy the more expensive one in that case? The PS1 outsold the PS2 greatly in the early days, at least over here. The PS2 didn't do well at all when it first came out, but where was the competition?)

It's certainly nothing to do with the quality of the hardware product. The PS2 is technologically inferior to both the other consoles, and isn't a dream to program for, I hear. And I don't care if there's no DVD player on the Gamecube. Was there a VHS player on my SNES? No. Didn't care. I want a console, not a Home Entertainment Centre™.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 18th November 2003 18:17)

What does perplex me, however, is the success of the X-box. It's so obviously inferior to both of its contemporaries, so why does it sell at all? Perhaps it is the most powerful hardware, but this means next to nothing when stacked up against the veritable wasteland of games to accompany the Box. If given the choice, I would surely prefer inferior hardware with superior games.

While I don't own one and not a fan of that console either, I can understand some of it success. Once modded, the console can do so many things. It basically becomes a very inexpensive PC as well a console. You can set up the Xbox into a FTP/Telnet server, add a larger hard drive and priate games by ripping them directly to it, play DivX, XVID, WMA, WMV, ASF, BivX, MPEG-4, MPEG-2, VOB, AVI, ShoutCast, Icecast, and MP3s, and emulate almost any console ever created. The PS1, N64, and SNES are just a few examples. Plus there are those who are really into Xbox Live.



Now to stay on topic, I'd like to add that Nintendo has been in existence since 1889. A company that has been around that long is not just going to fold up its tent and go home easily. They'll keep fighting the console war for a long while. Pride is a powerful thing. If things don't work out, the company will evolve, I'm sure. This was once a playing card company.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

I for one do not want to see nintendo fail. One of the first consule games that I played was a super nintendo. I wish that they would get a lot of classical rpg's back, such as Secret Of Mana, on the game cube. Oh well, they still got Zelda.

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I will be the mustard of your doom!

I personally find the NGC a nice system, however, dispite the fact that thier occasional game is gold, they either don't appeal to me, or I've already played them. (example, Resident Evil) Granted, they're a few games I would enjoy on the NGC, but these pale in comparison to the amount of games that interest me on the PS2. So while NGC has the occasional goldie, Sony has them quite often. About Sony getting a big lead because they are who they are, it is true, Sony soon proved thier weight in gold, while XBox did not. Who cares if they use 3rd parties to make thier games it's the simple fact that they have the prime third parties. I know it's a rather rude thing to say dispite the potential the other systems have, it's the fact that they have the major 3rd parties on thier side who make such damn good games, or at least most of them.

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At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

I'm going to have to side with Josh and Kappa on this one. I was completely on PS2's sideline a year ago, with all the GTA's, Metal Gear, and Squaresoft in their court, there was no way I was going to buy anything else. Then this year Nintendo won me back, based 100% on nostalgia and old games. I had to have a GC for:
Zelda
F-Zero
Metroid
Mario Kart
TMNT (I know I can get this on PS2 as well, but I feel like I should just play TMNT games on Nintendo)
Not to mention the return of Square and MGS:Twin Snakes. Aside from Soul Calibur 2, the last five games I've bought have been for GC, and the next two (Mario Kart and TMNT) will be, too.

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Hip-Hop QOTW:

"Yeah, where I'ma start it at, look I'ma part of that
Downtown Philly where it's realer than a heart attack
It wasn't really that ill until the start of crack
Now it's a body caught every night on the Almanac"

"Game Theory"
The Roots

Will somebody please do a little more research on this topic to confirm what I've heard--a friend of mine read this and told me that Nintendo has actually been doing the best of Nintendo, Sony, Sega, and Microsoft. Sega obviously fell out long ago, but he said that Sony lost lots on its PS consoles and something like "who knows how much Microsoft has lost on the X-Box". On the other hand, he claims that Nintendo has never posted a yearly loss until possibly this year, and that's because the entire video game industry is going bad right now.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 24th November 2003 15:19)

Will somebody please do a little more research on this topic to confirm what I've heard--a friend of mine read this and told me that Nintendo has actually been doing the best of Nintendo, Sony, Sega, and Microsoft.  Sega obviously fell out long ago, but he said that Sony lost lots on its PS consoles and something like "who knows how much Microsoft has lost on the X-Box".  On the other hand, he claims that Nintendo has never posted a yearly loss until possibly this year, and that's because the entire video game industry is going bad right now.

Not enough information there, chief. "Doing well" how? Financially? Number of units sold? Over what time span? The last ten years? The last year? The last month?

How can you compare it, really? Nintendo does virtually nothing but gaming systems and games, whereas Sony and Microsoft are extremely diverse in their product offering.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 24th November 2003 22:08

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I read about this topic in here and posted about it at the Moogle Cafe (pub69.ezboard.com/bthemooglecafe), in the "Veldt" forum under the topic "Mario Mania!" (I didn't start the topic, nor was this the original item of discussion). You can read my post there, as well as the responses of other members to my post. That's where I got my information. I have read no magazines, news reports, company reports, etc. about this matter; that's why I don't know much about it (sorry!). But I wanted to know which position was true--that Nintendo is lagging or Nintendo is still leading.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Check this out

Have a look at the news section. Or you'll see it when the page opens.

I think Nintendo has some serious staying power. Gears brought up a very good point, about playing Nintendo for the nostalgia. I, too, have been a pretty loyal Nintendo fan since I've been alive, and will continue to support it through thick and thin. I am confident they can turn it around, and I won't put them out of the count yet.

Though the Nintendo is called by some to be a bit "kiddie" at times in terms of some of the games produced for it, this is an interesting strategy, by targeting people at an early age and building brand loyalty. If kids buy these games at an early age, they (like I was) are more likely to buy Nintendo products in the later years.

While this may not be true for many of us, since a lot of people in the older gaming generation have crossed over to PS2 and X-box, I think Nintendo has done a good job in keeping a definite fan base and reliability for the games it produces.

Edit: I by no stretch am calling the Nintendo company "kiddie", and I have great fun with their systems. Criticizing someone and generalizing people who have an opinion, however, is immature. Oh, and I've never played GTA.

This post has been edited by TheEvilEye on 6th December 2003 00:44

The people that label nintendo as a "kiddie" system because of games like kirby are the same people who are freakishly obcessed with grand theft auto. I'm not saying it's a bad game, I love it myself, but the people in the room next door scare me sometimes. "Ohhhhhhh! look, theres a fat chick, go kill her!! KILL THE COP, KILL THE COP!" Seriously, how can killing cops and fat chicks redundantly stay fun for days on end?
The point is, anyone who's calling Nintendo a kiddie company is too immature to realize Zeldas great fun for any age.

Also, I really doubt nintendo's going anywhere any time soon. Even if they don't dominate the console market like they used to, you have to keep in mind they they are the leading handheld company in japan, and the ONLY handheld in amrica. Everyone loves the SP.

'cides, nintendo commercials are funny. (and thus, I destroy my credability...)