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Anyone got an opinion on how good these are -- particularly with regards to durability?

I forgot where the other thread was where I commented on this here on CoN, but anyway, I've always preferred the SNES gamepad's style, without the two "legs" on each side, based on how I prefer holding the controller. However, the actual SNES controller obviously lacks analog sticks, which are useful for playing a lot of games. But this This would be an SNES-style gamepad with analog sticks, yet also natively USB so this means it's usable for PC gaming by default.

So I'm interested in getting one, but I've got this one friend who says he's heard that 8BitDo's stuff breaks easily.

I remember at least one person here bought one of these before -- how's your experience with it been? And what model did you get?

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

I think this is the thread you were looking for?

https://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...90&#entry215120

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

As a matter of fact, Mr. Magus Harvey, I would say that the 8bitdo SN30 Pro I bought those 60 +/- days ago is functioning well and that I've had little issue with it. I did sell it to a collectibles store to be able to eat one day while living out of my car, but now I'm ensconced in an apartment and I've bought it back. Not the most sound financial planning advice in the world, but all the same...

I've had absolutely 0 issues with the analog sticks, but mind you, I don't really play many games that would use them, to be perfectly frank. Mostly I end up mapping them to alternative functions for emulators like the Sega Classics Game Room (I use the right stick to do Quick Saves and Quick Loads). Stuff like that.

As far as I can tell, though, the stories of the analog sticks being faulty in some way seem apocryphal to me. They work fine, on my end.

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X is blue.

8bitdo makes a whole bunch of controllers. I assume you mean either the SF30 Pro, or the SN30 Pro. I have not gotten one yet Glenn, but if I can get it at the right price I probably will try it eventually. Don't hold your breath for it though, since I've been contemplating the purchase for over a year now.

This is mostly because I also dislike handles, in part because if you squeeze them too tightly it can cause your hand to cramp, and in part because it strains the middle finger away from the ring finger if you have the middle fingers on L2 and R2. If you do not put your middle fingers on L2 and R2, then it takes longer to reach those buttons with your index finger, because they are normally placed on L1 and R1. I most particularly dislike the sort of handles found on the Playstation 1 and 2 controllers, which jut out and away from the main body of the controller. Playstation 3 controllers are more tolerable since they are smaller controllers, but not by much. The X-box 360 controller doesn't really use handles so much as it uses contours, which are fine by me though.

I do have an 8bitdo F30 pro though. It is durable enough to survive being left in my pocket and put in the laundry by mistake, although in saying that I should disclose that this was a water efficient front-loading washer, so it is not quite like it was submersed in water. I would not actually recommend buying an F30 pro, but I am not going to go into detail regarding that right now, because I doubt that it is indicative of the SF-30 pro which looks like a much different and superior solution.

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey")

This would be an SNES-style gamepad with analog sticks, yet also natively USB so this means it's usable for PC gaming by default.

There is an error or two in this statement. The first is that 8bitdo makes Bluetooth controllers. It can still be used on your P.C., and other devices too, but likely at the cost of a very small amount of latency. If you need a U.S.B. controller, you might like the Hori Mini Wired Gamepad for the Playstation 4, which has a U.S.B. end. It is about the same size as an original style RVL-005 Classic Controller, although there are a few differences, and the directional pad feels a little soft compared to the Hori Fighting Commande PS4-044. The M.S.R.P. is about $30, but I have seen it for as low as $20 in the past. There was also a Dragon Quest Slime variant, which may have been the most ergonomic slime controller but it was limited edition and hence, now expensive on the secondhand market now that the pre-ordering period is over.

The other possible error is that controller compatibility can be really finicky on the P.C., so I would not really count on a given controller working by default just because it has a U.S.B. end. Depending on the game and how it supports gamepads, you may need third party software to get it working, unless the specific controller you are buying has a compatibility mode switch too, but such models are uncommon and I can not even think of a flat one.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 27th October 2018 16:31

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Role reversal at its finest.

That wired mini controller for PS4 seems like a possibility too, yes. I think there are a few other controllers I of this same style that I might like. There's an SNES-style controller for WiiU I think, which is also on my radar, as well as the Xbone controller which I'm considering because it looks like it might not be as bad as, say, the PS1 controller, given the way I hold it. Not sure.

And good point for bringing up that gamepad configuration on a PC can be finicky sometimes.

Meanwhile, said friend who kept on ragging on the 8BitDo controllers also suggested getting the Nintendo Switch GC/USB controller adapter. Reportedly takes 2 USB slots and fits up to 4 GC controllers. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'm actually not that big of a fan of the GC controller. Like, I'll play native GC games with it, but I wouldn't want it for PC gaming.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Anybody presently reading this might also be interested in knowing that the sn30 pro is available on Newegg Flash for the next six days for 33.99 with free shipping, which is the lowest price I have seen for it, even if only by a small margin. I suspect 8bitdo is discontinuing the S.N.E.S. themed ones because of that, since Newegg Flash often seems to sell outlet type products, 8bitdo came out with some newer variations and the original S.N.E.S. color scheme does not show up on their website anymore, so despite what I said earlier I am going to buy an SF30 pro or two now to mitigate against that risk, since I really like that color scheme. The same controller will continue to be made in different colors though, and this Gameboy DMG-001 stylization fashioned one also looks good. It is probably worth noting that the 8bitdo controller is slightly larger to accommodate the thumbsticks, and that 8bitdo makes some bluetooth adapters for some of Nintendo's consoles too. It is also important to update the 8bitdo firmware on their products. Some features may not work until you do that.

Also, I have a question for Spooniest: I noticed that you also had the Buffalo Classic U.S.B. controller in another thread, and I would say that it was the former champion of U.S.B. S.N.E.S. controller facsimiles despite a couple of minor differences from the original S.N.E.S controllers. How does the 8bitdo one compare to that?

Now to address Glen's last post specifically:

I like the handles of the Gamecube controller because they are not angled so far away and the broader handle sides makes it harder for me to grip it too tightly, but it has so many of its own problems. It is missing a left shoulder button, the directional pad and c-stick are too small, the assorted sizes and shapes of the buttons are annoying and the face button layout introduces too much travel time from x and y to b or the other way around. Maybe it would be desirable for authenticity's sake if playing a game like Tales of Symphonia for the P.C., presuming it is compatible, or maybe if you had four leftover Gamecube controllers and wanted to play local multiplayerthat might be an affordable option. However your primary concern was ergonomics, and if you do not like the Gamecube controller then it is not going to satisfy that criterion, and I see almost no reason to buy something that you know you will not like when the same cash could go towards buying an alternative you might like, even if you end up disliking the alternative anyway. There is at least a chance that way.Besides that The Hori Battlepad for the Nintendo Switch might be the better option if you don't need more than one, or the analogue triggers of the original: It has a right shoulder button, a larger directional pad and a direct to U.S.B connection, and I usually prefer that because I sometimes worry about the potential for latency caused by translating one standard to another.

Speaking of criteria, you need a good set of them if you wish to decide what controller you want to use, and another factor you may want to consider for determining your requirements is thumb-stick symmetry in relation to the action buttons. If you mostly play two dimensional games without analog sensitivity requirements for movement, then it is probably better for the natural resting position of your thumb to be on the directional pad like it would be on the 8bitdo controller. If you play games with analog sensitivity requirements, as most three dimensional games do, then it is probably better for it to be on the thumbstick like it is for the Xbox controllers. Additionally, do you need analog triggers or mere buttons on L2 or R2? Some games only recognize one or the other, and obviously there is a play-style difference too: Analogue triggers have more subtle sensitivity but mere buttons have a more immediate response.The 8bitdo controller and the Hori Mini controller for Playstation 4 use buttons, whereas the xbox controllers have triggers.

Whether or not you are willing to buy multiple controllers for different games is also a factor, because then you could buy different controllers that are better suited for different needs. I like using the Hori PS4-044 for most P.C. games which do not require the thumbsticks, and switch over to an Xbox 360 controller for the ones that do require them. I personally find that time times when I need both the directional pad and the thumbsticks are rare, so with this combination each one of the controllers can cover the others' weaknesses for me.

Finally, I prefer the shape of an Xbox 360 controller to that of the Xbox One's controller, and the U.S.B versions are practically identical on the P.C. since they are both x-input controllers with roughly the same features and general layout. You should try an Xbox One controller at a retail demonstration kiosk if there is one nearby, since it is for a current generation console. The bottom of the contoured grip is fatter and comes down to a point on the very bottom on the xbox one controller. Also, the transforming directional-pad variation of the xbox 360 controller is supposed to have a better directional pad than the original. Since it is the last generation's tech,. a used xbox 360 controller would also be cheaper, so you could buy both the discounted 8bitdo controller from Newegg Flash and a used xbox 360 controller off of ebay for about what an Xbox One controller would normally cost.

Now I am not saying there are not reasons to prefer an xbox one controller over an xbox 360 controller. The microswitched directional pad is nice, it may have improved sensitivity, you have the option for a bluetooth model and naturally it is compatible with the Xbox One if you need a controller for that, but I suspect most of these features are past the point of diminishing returns for its use as a P.C. Gamepad.




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Role reversal at its finest.

Quote (Tonepoet @ 27th October 2018 11:29)

Also, I  have a question for Spooniest: I noticed that you also had the Buffalo Classic U.S.B. controller in another thread, and I would say that it was the former champion of U.S.B. S.N.E.S. controller facsimiles despite a couple of minor differences from the original S.N.E.S controllers. How does the 8bitdo one compare to that?

In my opinion, the SN30 Pro (which is what I got) is kind of superior to the Buffalo. See, the thing is, SN30 Pro has an XInput Capability which the Buffalo does not, and the extra analog sticks and L2/R2 triggers make assigning alternative functions and button combos to them possible.

It also has a bit more weight to it, like you are holding an actual Super NES/Super Famicom Controller. I will say, though, that when on Wireless Mode, sometimes (I'm talking about once every few days here, and I play games about 1-2 hours a day) I will release a direction and it will not stop inputting it, but that may be something I'm doing wrong (I have a really old and cheap bluetooth usb adapter, I should probably get something more robust). I did want to mention this issue, though, since you are concerned. It may very well be that you'll never see this happen, since you prefer to go wired. You might want to spend a few bucks on a USB extension cable. I've got one, and they are very convenient, as the 8Bitdo Usb cord is not very long.

By comparison, the Buffalo Super Famicom Replica controllers feel a little light and plasticky, but they work much more reliably. The only drawback is that they are not compatible with XInput at all, they are DirectInput only, so lots of games might require you to go through a pass-through program and map the controls to the keyboard (Joy2Key is the most basic example of such a pass-through program).

Hope that helps Tony.

This post has been edited by Spooniest on 27th October 2018 17:18

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X is blue.

@ Tonepoet: (not quoting your post at length because convenience)

1. I didn't know you could have analog trigger buttons.

That said I figured I'd want two such shoulder buttons on each side, since the PS1 has had this too.

2. I pretty much only play games that don't require analog stick movement, but that's partly because I've never had a gamepad. I'm not certain how that would change if I had a gamepad with an analogue stick but it'd be a slow change anyway given the pace at which I'm playing things.

3. I never checked out the shape of the XB360 gamepad but I just now noticed it's similar to the XBone's gamepad. That said, I also just now noticed how they switched the analogue stick with the D-pad.

(I think that if I had a choice I'd rather play Smash with a D-pad. Even though I don't play Smash much anyway.)

4. Interesting observation on their possible discontinuation. I'm not really concerned about the color, but hopefully they're making newer models to have improvements over the older ones.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 28th October 2018 02:17

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Responding to Glenn Magus Harvey since I thought it might be a good idea to drag 8bitdo discussion back over here.

The xbox 360 controller directional pad is infamously horrendous. I'm surprised that I forgot to mention that. To me it just feels slippery. It is the one blemish on what many people considered the otherwise perfect controller. I must have forgotten or figured it was unimportant since I wouldn't use the directional pad on a modern game very much anyway.

At this point Glenn, I would not recommend buying the 8bitdo controller. It has a better directional pad than the xbox 360 controller, but it is annoying in other ways if you are a perfectionist. Compared to an S.N.E.S. controller everything is shifted more towards the shoulder buttons to make room for the thumbsticks, and the L and R were crammed too slim. One other thing is that it is somewhat weird to try to use all four shoulder buttons without something to grip onto, although the Pro+ model does have handles. I think the handles are the only thin g that make it different from the Pro, in fact.

Regarding the discontinuation, 8bitdo had some trademark troubles in the Australian marketplace for what I believe to be obvious reasons. They ultimately redesigned their logo and the superficial appearance of their existing models. Since then they have released some improved models though.

If you do decide to disregard that advice and go with 8bitdo anyway, then you may want to recommend consider either the U.S.B. version of the controller, or the Xbox Cloud for android version of it. The wired U.S.B. version is significantly cheaper, so if you dislike it it will not be as much of a loss, and the xbox version has analogue thumbsticks and serves a niche that the other variants can't. Do note however, that the Xbox version does not work on Xbox consoles though. The only thing that makes it Xbox is Xbox Cloud compatibility.


8Bitdo SN30 Pro USB Gamepad for Switch, PC, RetroPie, Raspberry Pi (G. Edition)
8Bitdo SN30 Pro USB Gamepad for Windows, Raspberry Pi (S.N. Edition)
8Bitdo Sn30 Pro for Xbox cloud gaming on Android (includes clip) - Android

If you decide to heed my advice then what do you do?

Well first, this might not be an irreparable defect.

The transforming d-pad variant released late into the 360 lifecycle is considered better, but I am not sure how much better. Now I know it is possibly too late to buy a whole new controller since you already have some in your possession, and even if you could the transforming d-pad variation is an expensive collector's item now it seems. However, you can still benefit from a transforming directional-pad if you are willing to open up the controller, cut into plastic to modify the controller, you can buy a transforming directional pad off of ebay and perform a modification to install it. I haven't tried it myself since I like to keep my controllers stock for the mostpart, and like I said before, it is not the style of controller I would use for a 3D game

Other than that, I might advise buying a more spot-on replica of the S.N.E.S. controller. Right now the best one on the market in my opinion is the Retroflag Classic U.S.B. Controller. I think Spooniest would like it too. It is not quite as heavy as an 8bitdo controller, because no authentic SNS-005 fascimile has all of the features which make the 8bitdo controllers so heavy, but it is heavier than the original SNS-005 and even the CVL-202 for the S.N.E.S. classic edition (which was also heavier than an SNS-005 controller). The weight is comparable to the CVL-202 controller though. I even opened it up once and it is not weighed down with weights. The extra weight seems to come from additional plastic re-enforcement. Something else to keep in mind about the Retroflag Classic U.S.B. Controller is that it is x-input compatible, direct-input compatible and Switch compatible.

One other option if you must have one controller that does everything is the Logitech F310. Now personally, I do not like the 310: The directional pad is overengineered and weird feeling, and the deadzones on the thumbsticks are huge. Movement does not register until you postition the thumbstick about halfway towards the edge. The only reasons I mention it is because it is the cheapest all-in-one gamepad design on the market, and also the oldest. Indeed, Logitech has used that same controller design in prior models such as the Logitech Dual Analogue Stick, and the only thing they changed from that is x-input compatibility and coloration. I have even heard stories of people using old drivers for the older controllers to run the F310 on older computers. Now as much as I personally dislike it, the fact that it has remained on the market for so long implies success and love within the P.C. gaming marketplace, so you might feel differently.

But trust me Glenn, you want the Retroflag controller.


1. I am late to the party, but to the best of my knowledge it is a Sega invention they used on the Saturn and the Dreamcast. All three of the 6th generation consoles adopted them shortly thereafter, although Nintendo abandoned it after the Gamecube. Usually when you can pull them back gradually, rather than getting an immediate button press, the L2 and R2 buttons are analogue. Their usage varies. In Super Mario Sunshine they control Fludd's water pressure, and in Smash Bros. Melee they control the strength of the shield. Their most common application however is to be treated analogously to the pedals of a car.
2. I doubt that a controller would change your playing preferences in the long run, so I would expect your habits to remain the same, but maybe I am wrong about that?
3. That's also something Sega did first. It just makes more sense to have the thumbstick beneath your thumb's natural resting place if you are going to be using the thumbstick most of the time.
4. I already wrote about about this above.

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey)

(I think that if I had a choice I'd rather play Smash with a D-pad. Even though I don't play Smash much anyway.)

This is not an option Glenn. The analogue Thumbstick is literally at the heart of what makes Smash Bros. Smash Bros. How you press the thumbstick determines whether you do a Smash attack, or a regular attack as seen in the original N64 How to Play demonstration. It also controls if you run or walk. Playing Smash Bros. without a thumbstick would be like playing Street Fighter II with a three button controller.

Edit

I fixed a misdirected link and a broken list.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 22nd November 2020 23:28

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Role reversal at its finest.

Your link for the Retroflag gamepad goes to the wrong thing.

Anyway thanks for telling me about the USB wired version. Much less expensive, and I also don't mind wired gamepads at all; I kinda prefer them (though I've never actually done an apples-to-apples comparison on the latency of a wired vs. a wireless gamepad).

Do you know if the wired USB 8bitdo is a thing that's on its way out, or if it'll be around for a while longer?

Quote

One other thing is that it is somewhat weird to try to use all four shoulder buttons without something to grip onto, although the Pro+ model does have handles.

I've never really used both shoulder buttons on a two-shoulder-button gamepad before, but I know that one of the things I don't like is...what I think you're referring to by the "handles". I never liked those two tail stubs on the sides of the gamepad, even since the PS1 days, because I found they made the gamepad awkward to hold; I realized that I hold SNES pads from the side so that's why I wanted to get one with a similar design. (I might have mentioned this earlier in the thread?) yes I did, and I called them "legs" lol

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Now I know it is possibly too late to buy a whole new controller since you already have some in your possession

I mean, I'm considering buying another gamepad, and it's not like I even use my gamepad for much, since I play 99%+ of my games on kb/m/kb+m.

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This is not an option Glenn. The analogue Thumbstick is literally at the heart of what makes Smash Bros. Smash Bros. How you press the thumbstick determines whether you do a Smash attack, or a regular attack as seen in the original N64 How to Play demonstration. It also controls if you run or walk.

I...don't remember the controls working like that, aside from the run/walk thing, which I think just made me feel like there was increased latency from the time it took to smush the stick right or left, and it was never a clean-feeling right/left because it was a stick rather than a d-pad. I remember just feeling that it was basically a digital thing mapped to an analog stick, as far as determining attacks go, which is why it felt awkward.

But hey, maybe that's why I'm not a good Smash player.

Re retroflag: Given that it's basically just an SNES-style gamepad, without the analog sticks, I don't think I have much of a reason to get one.

My main interest in the 8Bitdo gamepads is the combination of SNES-style gamepad shape with analog sticks; analog sticks are the one feature I can't feasibly replicate on a laptop keyboard.

And I guess I missed the really SNES-looking 8Bitdo gamepads. oh well

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 22nd November 2020 14:04

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

I'll fix that link, and the broken B.B. Code for the list too.

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I've never really used both shoulder buttons on a two-shoulder-button gamepad before, but I know that one of the things I don't like is...what I think you're referring to by the "handles". I never liked those two tail stubs on the sides of the gamepad, even since the PS1 days, because I found they made the gamepad awkward to hold; I realized that I hold SNES pads from the side so that's why I wanted to get one with a similar design. (I might have mentioned this earlier in the thread?) yes I did, and I called them "legs" lol.

I suppose you could liken them to furniture legs when you put the controller down, but more specifically the front legs, because there are also protrusions underneath the shoulder buttons that help the controller lay flat which could also be called legs in such a matter. The reason I called them handles is that they are the part of the controller you actually grip on applicable controller designs. I suppose the reason you might be reluctant to call them handles is because you might be thinking of something like a briefcase handle when you hear the word, but they are analogous to something more like a pan handle.

Anyway, I mentioned earlier in the thread and elsewhere, I do not like 'em either Glenn and especially not the original Playstation styled ones. Like you, that is one of the main reasons I even considered buying the 8bitdo controller. However, it was not until I actually tried to use the 8bitdo controller that I realized that they actually serve a function.

I generally keep my fingers on all four shoulder buttons, unless the game only uses two. If you do not have a finger on each of the the shoulder buttons, you are reducing your responsiveness with finger travel time. However, in order to do that on a 2x2 layout you need to move your pointer fingers out from their curled up position under the controller to L2 and R2, and the gap caused by doing that out from under the controller over to the shoulder buttons makes the controller lose its support, so it starts to sag. The hand also does not contort enough to lay the controller flat on your fingers and use the shoulder buttons that way, even if your hands are small enough to lay the controller in your flat hands with an SNS-005 sized controller, which is something adult hands generally can not do. Other controllers that skip the handles partially compensate for this by making the controller considerably thicker than an SNS-005 would be. Nintendo's own RVL-005 Classic controller is like the SNS-005's thicker curvier cousin.

If you only need to use two shoulder buttons it might be fine for games where you can map the buttons, but not every game has that option unless you are willing to use a utility, and the L and R buttons are very thin:

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Given that it is basically just an SNES-style gamepad, without the analog sticks, I do not think I have much of a reason to get one. My main interest in the 8Bitdo gamepads is the combination of SNES-style gamepad shape with analog sticks; analog sticks are the one feature I can't feasibly replicate on a laptop keyboard.

Hmm, well I thought you might be interested since you expressed some interest in the Retrobit controllers and some people expressed that they might have preferred an S.N.E.S. design, because of reasons that should be obvious. I probably got one person mixed up with another in my vague memories.

However that makes me curious: Just what is your usage case for the directional pad then? I probably would not use an xbox controller if I never intended to use the left thumbstick, and the two rarely ever serve important functions in conjunction since the thumb can only be positioned over one in the time, and they were primarily designed to serve the same function of moving around. As such, there are not many cases I can think of where I would not be using the right thumbstick without also using the left one, because almost every game which uses the right thumbstick has analogue sensitivity, and most of them are focused on forwards movement rather than sideways movement where directional sensitivity along the front 180 degrees can be useful.

In consideration of those factors, if you are not using both the directional pad and the thumbstick successively, then you should be fine with just the xbox controller.

Then what about aiming? Well, I don't know enough about your situation to know if this would work out or not, but kensington still makes old-fashioned trackballs. They offer some of the benefits that a mouse has which might pose difficulty to a trackpad, while not requiring a whole bunch of desk space to actually move the mouse around for tracking. There are also a variety of brands that make trackballs that you can hold like a mouse and manipulate with the thumb. The Logitech M570 is an example of that.

The only situations where I would see a controller having a clear advantage over a trackball is if you wanted left thumbstick sensitivity, or had no room to set anything down on anything other than your lap. In that latter case however, I have difficulty seeing how you could even use a controller with a laptop without the laptop sliding off of your lap.

The Wiimote nunchuck is also an option but you would need an adapter to do that and getting it to work, if it is possible, might be more trouble than it's work.

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I…don't remember the controls working like that, aside from the run/walk thing, which I think just made me feel like there was increased latency from the time it took to smush the stick right or left, and it was never a clean-feeling right/left because it was a stick rather than a d-pad. I remember just feeling that it was basically a digital thing mapped to an analog stick, as far as determining attacks go, which is why it felt awkward. But hey, maybe that's why I'm not a good Smash player.

It certainly works like that. If you saw the video I linked, you saw the proof, and if you don't trust even that go dust off the good ol' N64 and try it. Playing Super Smash Bros. without knowing how to Smash is like playing Super Mario Brothers without knowing how to Dash, and i think you might have a much better time with the game if you truly did not know. It is a little trickier in future installments because you can charge smash attacks too though.

Part of that latency might also be because of the deadzone. Practically every joystick has a deadzone where input simply will not register, in part as a matter of mechanical necessity, but also in-part as a matter of preventing unintentional inputs.

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Anyway thanks for telling me about the USB wired version. Much less expensive, and I also don't mind wired gamepads at all; I kinda prefer them (though I've never actually done an apples-to-apples comparison on the latency of a wired vs. a wireless gamepad).

Wireless latency may very well be a nonissue with modern controllers. Fighting game aficionados are very picky about their controllers because fighting games are so input-intensive, but when testing out a six-axis against a wired controller it was established that the amount of lag was negligible. Toodles is the sort of person who can design electronics and was just about as well trusted over there as Master Zed is here, so his results were probably accurate. Gigaboots claims to have done tests which establish that the Wii U Pro Controller only adds 3 milliseconds of lag over using the Gamecube adapter in Will Smash Ultimate have worse Input Lag w/ GCN adapter? Wavebird, Pro, & GCN tests! However, the adapter also has to adapt Gamecube signals, so perhaps the fairer comparison is Wavebird through Gamecube adapter vs Wired gamecube controller lags by 9 milliseconds. That is a little over what is usually considered the ideal tolerance of 8 milliseconds, but perhaps close enough. The reason 8 milliseconds is considered acceptable is because it is squarely within the middle of a frame at a 60hz framerate, and most games operate in discrete game-states that last for the duration of a frame. Granted, wired is better, but what I am saying is that it is not by a substantial amount.

Also yeah, wireless adds quite a fair amount to the cost. It's usually a feature you only find in controllers that cost around $50 or more. Logitech used to also sell an F510 controller which added rumble to the F310, and they also sell an F710 with rumble and wireless.

Going by M.S.R.P., the F310 costs $25, the F510 added $10 to the cost just for rumble making the total $35, and the F710 adds another $20 to the cost making the total cost $50. However the controllers are frequently discounted, and perhaps because of that the actual nominal price difference between the F510 and the F710 was not enough to merit buying the F510 over the F710, and naturally the F310 would always be the cheapest price for a basic wired controller. I say that because the F510 was discontinued years ago.

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Do you know if the wired USB 8bitdo is a thing that's on its way out, or if it'll be around for a while longer?

I do not know what 8bitdo's plans for the future are, but they only just introduced this product a little over a year ago, so I see no reason that they would discontinue this product anytime soon. You can probably stand to wait and see if the 360 controllers are indeed adequate for your actual needs, if there is a discount or consider your other options.

Speaking of other options, one other option people might want to consider are adapters. 8bitdo makes these Gbros adapters which adapt wired gamecube and classic controllers to bluetooth. There are also various receivers which will pair with bluetooth controllers including some console specific ones, although somebody who is technically minded might be able to get those controllers to pair without one if they could find the right drivers.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 23rd November 2020 17:37

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Role reversal at its finest.

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The hand also does not contort enough to lay the controller flat on your fingers and use the shoulder buttons that way, even if your hands are small enough to lay the controller in your flat hands with an SNS-005 sized controller, which is something adult hands generally can not do.

If I ever get around to dusting off my SNES I will mess around with this and see what happens.

I don't remember there being particularly much use to the L and R buttons in SNES games though, with one exception: I've lately been starting to learn high-level speed tech in Super Metroid, and I *am * making use of L and R...except since I play randos and other romhacks, I've actually learned to do this on keyboard instead of gamepad.

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Hmm, well I thought you might be interested since you expressed some interest in the Retrobit controllers and some people expressed that they might have preferred an S.N.E.S. design, because of reasons that should be obvious. I probably got one person mixed up with another in my vague memories.

You're right, I am interested. I remember this being a thing for Genesis gamepads for USB, and I probably mentioned that I'd like to see replacement SNES pads for USB too.

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However that makes me curious: Just what is your usage case for the directional pad then?

There are basically two categories.

1. Crystal Flashing and Gate Glitching (a.k.a. Green Gate Glitching). Or, more generally, those times (not necessarily in Super Metroid, but these are just the obvious ones) when I need to press so many buttons on my keyboard that it ghosts some keys.

2. Games such as platformers that use keyboard/digital controls (no mouse) but bind movement keys to WASD or some other scheme I find very awkward and don't provide a way to rebind keys. (e.g. Crystal Catacombs, Birth of a Hunter, Chronicles of Teddy: Harmony of Exidus, Phantom Breaker: Battle Grounds, Atelier Sophie, etc. -- some of these are good games otherwise!)

The XB360 gamepad is there for me when I do need a left analog stick, though my specific XB360 left thumbstick sheds and it's annoying to clean up so I'd like a better replacement. (I guess I could open it up and replace it with the right thumbstick's plastic piece?)

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In consideration of those factors, if you are not using both the directional pad and the thumbstick successively, then you should be fine with just the xbox controller.

It's the d-pad of the XB360 gamepad that's bad. The replacement made by Madcatz is at least designed to look like an actual d-pad, but still doesn't function like one since it's just as finicky on whether I've barely leaned right or left while holding down.

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Then what about aiming?

I play very few games that would involve aiming, but so far the ones I do play can be played using kb+m with FPS controls, and I have mice.

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trackballs

I've considered buying one of these for other reasons (saves space on the desk, doesn't have surface requirements). Unfortunately, there's nothing other than just one model of Logitech that's available in nearby stores.

Also your two trackball links are broken.

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Playing Super Smash Bros. without knowing how to Smash is like playing Super Mario Brothers without knowing how to Dash

I did figure out how to Smash, albeit on Melee rather than original SSB.

Meanwhile, I always found that I never had a reason to walk rather than run, and the fact that walking could be confused for jumping or ducking because those were mapped to an analog stick was a pain.

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Gbros adapters

Oh, this is neat. I could potentially use my GC controller on my computer with this. (Though I'd probably prefer a wired solution anyway.)

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 23rd November 2020 16:01

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

I'll add the controller is great. I use it wirelessly for my SNES Classic and I use the Pro as well. Great controllers!

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His Divine Shadow

Got Lexx?

Click to vist FFF.

I've just heard that 8BitDo can switch between modes for Switch, DInput, XInput, and MacOS, rather than having to unsynch from one device to switch to another.

But that probably has more to do with Bluetooth models than the wired one I'm thinking of getting.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )