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Now I don't know much about DQ10 or about the DQ series in general, but I know that FFXI and FFXIV have gotten quite a bit of flak for being MMORPGs. While I haven't played them, I was wondering, how much of this has to do solely with them being MMORPGs, rather than particular design aspects?

This topic was inspired by my discovering that Phantasy Star had its (first) MMORPG installment, Phantasy Star Online, released in 2000. This was roughly two years before FFXI. IIRC I've heard a lot more chatter about PSO than about FFXI, even though both are descended from single-player JRPGs (and so will DQ10 be).

True, PS wasn't really active after the 16-bit era, pretty much stopping at PSIV (1995) on the Genesis/MegaDrive, while FF continued to enjoy main-series releases. Is this what has made people used to FF being single-player JRPGs and thus given a sort of "wait, why an MMORPG?" feeling?

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i don't think the online Final Fantasy MMO feature was its failure. I just think it was executed poorly in comparison to what was out there. The learning and devotion curve for FFXI was rather large. You could really only progress after level 11 if you played all the time and had tons of hours to devote, unlike WoW where you can play less time and less frequently and still have a chance to continue. WoW offers more chances for solo play, where as FFXI you absolutely had to group and group well to be successful.

My thoughts always were that I'd love to play a FF based MMORPG as long as it looked like Final Fantasy but played like World of Warcraft.

I don't know how anyone else feels but that's how I've felt about FF as an MMORPG.

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Chewbekah ^_^

Currently Playing: Final Fantasy XIV: ARR, Attack of the Firday Monsters, Animal Crossing: A New Leaf, Lego City Undercover, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Remix

Recently Finished: Fire Emblem: Awakening

Favorite Game: Suikoden III

Perhaps I was wrong then. As I said, I have not played FFXI or FFXIV before, but I've heard them both being widely criticized, and what you say seems to be similar to what Wikipedia cites as criticisms of FFXIV--i.e. structural problems of game design.

Well, if there is less of a dispreference for MMORPGs than I first thought, then here's to hoping that Dragon Quest X breaks that curse.

That said, how well are Squenix's smaller MMORPG projects going? Are they suffering similar problems as their two higher-profile FF MMORPG offerings?

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

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Well, for me, I did not like that they made an MMO as a number in the series. It just felt wrong and reeked of a marketing ploy." It's the next in line, so you just should buy it". It was all marketing. Those games weren't a continuation of the Final Fantasy series, they were a deviation from it. MMOs are completely different games.

Square could have just made one called Final Fantasy Online or similar, but instead traded away all integrity for a marketing purpose. They wanted the long line of fans to come over, and they knew that non-MMO players would normally never even consider it, especially if the game didn't have the Final Fantasy name.

It's just very disappointing. And only further knocks one's opinion of Square.

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And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
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Well, for me, I did not like that they made an MMO as a number in the series. It just felt wrong and reeked of a marketing ploy." It's the next in line, so you just should buy it". It was all marketing. Those games weren't a continuation of the Final Fantasy series, they were a deviation from it. MMOs are completely different games.

I would have to agree with this point. These two games follow a significantly different format and, as a result, I think they should have been kept separate from the main series.

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Perhaps I was wrong then. As I said, I have not played FFXI or FFXIV before, but I've heard them both being widely criticized, and what you say seems to be similar to what Wikipedia cites as criticisms of FFXIV--i.e. structural problems of game design.

From what I've heard, FFXI really didn't recieve all that much criticism; if anything, its fault was that it was stuck on a system that didn't do online gaming terribly well. As far as faults in FFXIV are concerned, it seems that they're warranted. This, I suspect, likely stems from the fact that squenix is rather inexperienced in the online gaming world.

Finally, I think that a key issue is that the audience squenix is trying to reach with MMO FF games is rather small. I feel like a lot of FF players aren't super involved in the MMO world, and it seems like the reverse can be said as well. The crossover isn't strong enough to make a game like FFXIV successful unless it's enough of a success in both categories to draw both groups together.

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I don't think FF XI was a failure. It had a pretty large userbase that mostly stuck with it through those three final mini-expansions. If anything, people viewed it as a failure because it was not nearly as successful as WoW and many FF traditionalists hated on it for not being the "numbered" FF they wanted. I'd agree with most of the positions put forth by DP and Tidu-who on this matter.

FF XIV was an abject failure. It received only negative reviews. IIRC, Square-Enix eventually apologized for its lack of completeness. It supposedly does a great many things badly. I haven't played it myself, nor do I care to.

Dragon Quest X, however, is one game in which I'm still on the fence. This is not to say that Dragon Quest would not lend itself well to an MMORPG, or that it is a bad idea or will be a bad game. Many gamers expected some online element to DQ X after DQ IX had so many multiplayer and online facets as sidequests and in its post-game; it's clear that the Dragon Quest creative minds think that an online component is very important.

HOWEVER, I can't help but feel that this new direction undermines the nature of the series a little bit. DQ X, unlike DQ IX, is a straight-up MMO. You can't access all of the game's content in single-player. You will be choosing a race and switching between traditional DQ classes during the gameplay, but you won't be The Hero - you'll just be A Hero in a world of many Heroes. Dragon Quest games are universally about an anonymous Hero that saves the world from a fiendish menace, and the concept of being just one hero out of many doesn't really click. Of course, the game is still incomplete and I could be totally wrong in my interpretation of the game, but I'm very, very skeptical. For a long time I said that DQ X would be the game that made me buy a Wii (especially now that they're so cheap and I have a decent-paying job). Now I'm not so sure I'll want one, even in 2013.

...I will say, though, DQ X has one major weakness in character design. The red fire people are so much cooler than the other four races that it will comprise of a good 70% of the players. Green dwarves, yellow slimes, purple elves, or blue water people? Get out of here.

This post has been edited by laszlow on 6th October 2011 03:15

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I just don't like online only games. Where you are forced to play online.

PSO had an offline mode and from what I heard DQX will have an offline mode.

FFXI and FFXIV. Well don't know much about XIV but I'm guessing like XI you are forced to play online only.

I prefer to play offline mostly due to fees and annoying people who call me noob even if I've been playing for a long time.

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I like MMO's but not for the reasons it seems other people do. I don't really like playing with other people unless it's one other person I know really well, which in some people's minds defeats the purpose of an MMO. What an MMO offers me that a normal offline game does not is an expansive world that is almost limitless that keeps expanding and I have the option of choosing to fully interect in real time or not. Now there are games that play similarly to a offline MMO like Fable, Gothic, Dragon Age in that they offer freedom to move around in a non-linear fashion that is sometimes nice and the questing, but it's still not quite the same.

People complain about subscription fees but to truly have an online world that will remain high quality there needs to be an upkeep fee. If you want more content you need to pay more and it's just a decision on whether or not you think it's worth it. Every couple of months I think it is, so for that month I pay. If I don't think it's worth it that month, then I don't.

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Chewbekah ^_^

Currently Playing: Final Fantasy XIV: ARR, Attack of the Firday Monsters, Animal Crossing: A New Leaf, Lego City Undercover, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Remix

Recently Finished: Fire Emblem: Awakening

Favorite Game: Suikoden III

I would never consider paying monthly for a game unless I were freaking loaded (rich or drunk, take your pick ).

For me, FFX is sort of the last FF. Not because I dislike the others, but because I think you can't have FF without Uematsu. I didn't know FFXI was disliked. I thought it had a community and its own memes and whatnot.

FFXIV's soundtrack was entirely composed by Uematsu, actually. Not saying that that redeems the game from its other faults, but just...for what it's worth. And I'm pretty sure FFX was a collab with someone else, Hitoshi Sakimoto I think.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 7th October 2011 18:32

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

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FFXI isn't hated. There just seems to be somewhat of a disconnect between FF's and MMO's, and a lot of fans just don't think it should have been in the main numbered series. When people think of FF they usually think of a pretty great JRPG.. not an MMO.

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----DQIII DQVIII
-----DA:O DAII
------VP:S

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 7th October 2011 18:31)

FFXIV's soundtrack was entirely composed by Uematsu, actually.

Oh! Shows what I know.

Quote (jtdurai @ 7th October 2011 12:07)

I would never consider paying monthly for a game unless I were freaking loaded (rich or drunk, take your pick ).

I see it differently. I see it as a totally inexpensive alternative to being drunk every weekend that all my friends and most people do. I played EQ for 12 years and now I play DDO and $10 a month is hardly something that someone loaded would need to do. You can hardly get a McD's meal for that. And you have unlimited access to the game and everything in it.

As far as the original topic, I just found out the other day that DQX was going MMO route ... Im not sure I like the idea but if its good (really good) I may consider moving to it. The Final fantasy MMOs just werent "Final Fantasy". They just were labeled so.

Quote (Chewbekah)

People complain about subscription fees but to truly have an online world that will remain high quality there needs to be an upkeep fee. If you want more content you need to pay more and it's just a decision on whether or not you think it's worth it. Every couple of months I think it is, so for that month I pay. If I don't think it's worth it that month, then I don't.

Well I'm just saying what if I want to play it because it is Final Fantasy but not to play online.

I think that people should have an offline option rather than being forced to play online.

Phantasy Star Online I believe has gone offline for good now because of the console change. But you can still enjoy offline game play that is just as fun also up to four players on the Game Cube version offline.

If you prefer to play with people you know wouldn't it work out offline in a multiplayer mode?

And the tragedy of XI and XIV being online with the fact they may fade away in online hell. When they become unpopular and obsolete in comparison to XX Online or XXIV Online it's ridiculous.

This post has been edited by seraphimdreamer777 on 14th October 2011 19:01

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I treasure those who I love that love me in return. <3