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Nintendo does have far more innovation than psx in terms of control:

Wii which came out before playstation has had battery charged cordless controller able to control movements and ds has a graft to draw or even tell your characters where to go with the pencil look alike.

The downside to such innovations,is that it isn't always coded properly and games like mortal combat armageddon and star wars force unleashed have bad movement controls.

The main issue at hand is how sensitive it can be and cause the sensor on top of your tv to not detect the movement causing heartache and frustration.

There is also the problem of having games for kids that i'm not too interested for nintendo wii.I admit though,the dragon quest swords for the wii was interesting because of the slashing component and resident evil 4 on wii actually had better controls than the ps2 version and the other version which i think was either pc or xbox.

There are some decent ds games,but at this point i'm not interested in kiddy games because i prefer more adult stuff.There are games that i'l play and enjoy like:mario for an example and even that puffy little cloud creature who always sucks things in to eat them,but i am new to that series so i'm also vulnerable.I only played the nes version and decided i liked it.


Any comments?

And yes i know that i'm speaking ps3 because ps2 wasn't cordless and neither was ps1.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 27th March 2011 10:12

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I agree, my brothers have one and they love it, it's full of great games for preteens. I don't think I would have wanted one after I turned 13, and I certainly can't imagine myself playing it now. The Virtual Console is quite cool but I'm a huge advocate of emulators, especially in RPGs, so I'd rather play these games on my PC with better graphics, a fast forward option and savestates. Sure, Resident Evil 4 is a game I've played a great deal and loved all the way, however it's probably not worth buying a Wii just for that game.

I'd be really interested in an 3DS depending on what games come out for it. I heard in a games store yesterday that some NES and SNES games are going to be coming out in 3D on the 3DS. I can't imagine how it's possible to make FFVI, CT or Street Fighter any better, or even look good. But then I'm sure everyone will rave about it if or when they come out. I think the technology is really cool but I'm dubious about how it will make the games better in the long term. Then again, I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong if the games turn out to be great.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

I heard about something similar but so far i've only seen a video review on the hand held for nes games.

As for the savestates comment:Not so much for rpgs but for ridiculously hard games like ninja gaiden and ghost and goblins,i welcome it.

Continuing on about wii:I don't have wii fit but i know people who do.
Personally,i'm not really interested in that,but it is a very good idea.
It just comes to show how clever nintendo company is.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 23rd March 2011 15:50

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

psx = ps1 dude..

I know you're referring to the ps3 but i thought i'd clear this up.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

I know psx is ps1.

I don't know why you mentioned that as i didn't show any signs of not knowing that.

Oh and:are you new around here?

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 23rd March 2011 06:32)

Wii which came out before psx has battery charged cordless controller able to control movements and ds has a graft to draw or even tell your characters where to go with the pencil look alike.

This is the line in question, Magitek. As Blinge inferred, I assume you meant Wii came out before PS3, not PSX.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Other internet forums would have ripped you to shreds for that, Magi.. I just wanted to spare you that

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (sweetdude @ 23rd March 2011 09:17)

I agree, my brothers have one and they love it, it's full of great games for preteens. I don't think I would have wanted one after I turned 13, and I certainly can't imagine myself playing it now. The Virtual Console is quite cool but I'm a huge advocate of emulators, especially in RPGs, so I'd rather play these games on my PC with better graphics, a fast forward option and savestates. Sure, Resident Evil 4 is a game I've played a great deal and loved all the way, however it's probably not worth buying a Wii just for that game.

That's pretty much how I feel too. The material for the Wii seems to be predominantly directed towards a younger audience. I can think of only a couple games for it that I would actually play. I'm not terribly excited by the whole motion thing either, so I really have no special interest in the console itself either.

As for the 3DS, I remain generally uninterested in the 3D phenomenon as a whole. I'd be convinced to feel otherwise only if there are any substantial FF re-releases for the handheld. I wouldn't be opposed to purchasing a handheld in general -I've been toying with picking up a used PSP for a while now- it's just that the 3DS seems like not all that much bang for a lot of buck.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Maybe you shouldn't be such perfectionists and think:hey he must be talking about ps3 because obviously psx is way before wii.

Use common sense.

i also don't care about ps3's powerful engine either as a side comment.

Xbox 360 has a less powerful engine and so far has offered me more games i am interested in.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 27th March 2011 10:14

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 27th March 2011 10:10)

Maybe you shouldn't be such perfectionists and think:hey he must be talking about ps3 because obviously psx is way before wii.

Use common sense.

This is the internet. No one will recognise "common sense" if they had a detailed recognition diagram on the subject and assistance from an Oxford Professor of Common Sense. Cos here's the thing. It's not actually all that common because everyone has a different definition of the term. For me, for instance, it's common sense to say what you mean, not think people will know what you mean

PSX has been the term for the PS1 since time immemorial, AKA 1994, so using it as a catch-all for the entire PS family is... not common sense. You use the wrong term, you confuse people.

And frankly, the way you rant about Nintendo shames me. I have been ranting about Nintendo for years, years and your post makes me want to support them. You spoke about how they perform "innovation".

Sometimes, the innovation is stupid, a pointless gimmick to take money from sheep and the mentally challenged. And Nintendo are one of the masters at this game. Nintendo and Apple are the same in that they offer products that never caught on before, and sell them not on their merits but on a brand name that leads to a follow-the-leader scenario where surprise surfethingprise, others have produced far more useful versions.

Kinect and Play make you look like a tool just like a Wii, with the added bonus that there are actual playable games for the XBox and 360 that aren't first party. And given that the first party stuff has largely ignored the motion sensitive stuff it seems, and the few that used it shoehorned it in most of the time.

Pretty much everything you said has been said before. If people don't already know the Wii and the DS have more shovelware than your body has room for, then they're probably supposed to be in a home.

This post has been edited by Del S on 27th March 2011 10:54

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

" Use common sense" eh?

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 25th March 2011 17:33)

I don't know why you mentioned that as i didn't show any signs of not knowing that.

Oh and:are you new around here?

Oh hubris, hubris, hubris..



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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Del S @ 27th March 2011 06:51)

And frankly, the way you rant about Nintendo shames me. I have been ranting about Nintendo for years, years and your post makes me want to support them. You spoke about how they perform "innovation".

Umm, you mean how, for over thirty years they've been making classic video games? All companies are companies, and thus are in it for profit. But in terms of content, you can't argue that Nintendo doesn't make good games.

Quote

Sometimes, the innovation is stupid

I believe that people once said this about video game consoles in general, but now look; the video game industry is nearly making more money than the film industry. Mark my words: their "stupid" innovation will lead to major advancements, things we can't even yet imagine.

Quote

And Nintendo are one of the masters at this game.

... And that's how they're dominating the market. They are masters in this game. They innovate, then they make money. Remember, they're not artists, or even game designers... and neither are the people at Microsoft and Sony. They're businesspeople. That's why there's shovelware (on every system).

Guess what? That pointless gimmick bandwagon that Nintendo created... is being jumped on by Sony and Microsoft as we speak.



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Praise Be To Helix!

Well, I'd just like to echo the sentimentality that Nintendo's been a good trailblazer when it comes to gameplay and stuff. I grew up with the NES, then the SNES, then the N64, and, for example, each console's mario games progressively advanced not only visually (which I personally value much less), but also in new ways to rejuvenate their flagship game series through gameplay that I just didn't see in other side-scrollers (well, M64 wasn't a side scroller, but it certainly let you do things in 3d that I thought were pretty novel).

To be honest, I never really thought to look at them in the same light I look at Apple, a company whose main innovations seem to me to just make things look and feel nicer, and who charge an arm and a leg for their version of a product. Nintendo (at least back in my day) didn't seem too expensive to me- I remember selling my compound hunting bow to pay for my N64+2 controllers+Zelda64, which I thought was a pretty good deal at the time.

This post has been edited by finalalias on 27th March 2011 20:03

Quote (BlitzSage @ 27th March 2011 17:16)

Quote (Del S @ 27th March 2011 06:51)

And frankly, the way you rant about Nintendo shames me. I have been ranting about Nintendo for years, years and your post makes me want to support them. You spoke about how they perform "innovation".

Umm, you mean how, for over thirty years they've been making classic video games? All companies are companies, and thus are in it for profit. But in terms of content, you can't argue that Nintendo doesn't make good games.

Oh, they are good games in terms of content and being enjoyed by the target audience, I just don't like them myself. And the simple fact is, all Wii really has is the first party games since the third party games outside that comfort zone have to go up against the XBox and PS3 offerings in the same genre. DS is in a better spot but 80% of the shelves are shovelware puzzle games where I look. Xbox? 80% shooters, true, but not a bunch of cheap little puzzle games. Same follow-the-leader mentality but more effort goes into the XBox market at least, even if they're ultimately both the lowest common denominator.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 27th March 2011 17:16)

Quote

Sometimes, the innovation is stupid

I believe that people once said this about video game consoles in general, but now look; the video game industry is nearly making more money than the film industry. Mark my words: their "stupid" innovation will lead to major advancements, things we can't even yet imagine.

True. But I'm not seeing it. The main advances seem to be conflicting. HD and 3D work against each other, 3D motion sensitivity adds another layer of complexity, and so far potential of most of the innovations of late is woefully untapped.

Of course, you raise the money. What are the fastest sellers? Call of Duty. Halo. Grand Theft Auto. None of these are on the Wii except in butchered ports at best. Quantity comes with the Wii. Not Quality. These "innovations" encourage quantity and shovelware. They sell, but popularity and profitability =/= quality. Anyone arguing otherwise loses forever simply because the thing this links to exists.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 27th March 2011 17:16)

Quote

And Nintendo are one of the masters at this game.

... And that's how they're dominating the market. They are masters in this game. They innovate, then they make money. Remember, they're not artists, or even game designers... and neither are the people at Microsoft and Sony. They're businesspeople. That's why there's shovelware (on every system).

Guess what? That pointless gimmick bandwagon that Nintendo created... is being jumped on by Sony and Microsoft as we speak.

Guess what? I said that. I also pointed out they do it better, because they do more with their devices. There are more options to their devices.

Just like Apple products. The market leaders are leaders when the rivals are superior products, because they don't sell the product, they sell a brand. Nintendo and Apple both "innovate" by recycling an idea that failed in the past with a different approach. Other parties are the ones who make it work while the flawed products get updated and sell like hotcakes. Hotcakes with terrible sensitivity and functionality, but hotcakes nonetheless.

This post has been edited by Del S on 27th March 2011 20:33

--------------------

"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Quote (Del S @ 27th March 2011 10:51)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 27th March 2011 10:10)

Maybe you shouldn't be such perfectionists and think:hey he must be talking about ps3 because obviously psx is way before wii.

Use common sense.

This is the internet. No one will recognise "common sense" if they had a detailed recognition diagram on the subject and assistance from an Oxford Professor of Common Sense. Cos here's the thing. It's not actually all that common because everyone has a different definition of the term. For me, for instance, it's common sense to say what you mean, not think people will know what you mean

PSX has been the term for the PS1 since time immemorial, AKA 1994, so using it as a catch-all for the entire PS family is... not common sense. You use the wrong term, you confuse people.

And frankly, the way you rant about Nintendo shames me. I have been ranting about Nintendo for years, years and your post makes me want to support them. You spoke about how they perform "innovation".

Sometimes, the innovation is stupid, a pointless gimmick to take money from sheep and the mentally challenged. And Nintendo are one of the masters at this game. Nintendo and Apple are the same in that they offer products that never caught on before, and sell them not on their merits but on a brand name that leads to a follow-the-leader scenario where surprise surfethingprise, others have produced far more useful versions.

Well.. At least they have an interesting system.

There has been countless consoles out and countless hand helds.

Gameboy game gear jaguar the virtual boy and i don't know if i missed out on any.

I don't know if nintendo was the first in hand held but they certainly do have interesting consoles.

As for games:Its a mixed bag.

The traditional games there have been some good ones for their consoles.

N64 had zelda64 mario64 which was quite good.
I never owned shadowgate64 but i played a emulated rom of it and wished i did.
Mortal combat was horrible on the n64,the effects were so bad.

I guess my point is:Even great consoles have their downsides in games and technology like:the wiimote control sometimes can be iffy in some games.

There are people who are buying it so someone likes it.
I'm sure there are also lots of people who own a ps3 but i also heard something about the price tag of the games steering people away.

There is of course also the infamous downgrade dual capability of playing both ps2 games and ps3 games on the ps3 console.

I'm actually annoyed by this because i think ps3 should allow us to play ps1 games as well because there are some classic ps1 games that i could play like breath of fire and parasite eve.

Xbox has the ring of death downfall as well as not being able to play on the 360 some games for the x box.

The worse part is the promise of a console from ps3 to allow us to play ps2 games.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I think Nintendo's great innovation is more or less a business innovation. And it's the very same business innovation which is being copied, not necessarily the product. They look to get an edge, or a gimmick, into an affordable product, and people love it. They're doing it again with the 3DS. On the face of it motion controls and 3D games are cool, they're all spacey and futuristic and fun. But then getting right down to the brass tacks it doesn't result in better games, and I don't think 3D or motion controls ever will. I can say this because taking motion controls away from the majority of generally accepted good games on the Wii (Mario, Mario and Zelda among others) will result in exactly no change whatsoever to the quality of the game. It's good, when it works, for a very limited number of action games, and I'm not saying that in a snobby way, if a game has a quality strategy, story or RPG element, why is it necessary to swing, flick or pull to make decisions? Why will it ever be better to swing, pull or flick to make decisions in a game? It's good for specific games in the same way a Light Gun can be good for shooters (and even that's up for debate).

And about that point of 'who knows how motion controls will evolve', the furthest I can imagine is some kind of Star Trek simulation room where the best of both actions and mind are put into action. That still sucks as a game! Any imaginable motion control still involves the body, or it's not motion control. It would be better to take the mind out the body for the fullest possible simulation and immersion. It's not literally the player in the game, although Milo thinks otherwise, it's the player assuming someone else, in the same way we occasionally say that every game with a playable determinable character could be an RPG. Personally I don't want to play as myself.

So coming back to what's been said in the last 4 or 5 posts, I agree with Del all the way. It's nothing to be commended for as I've said above.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 27th March 2011 22:23

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Well...

Look at games that do work for the wiimote.

Sure we all complain about the bad ones,but what about the games that got good control response? There are some interesting ideas out there that nobody has thought about,

And yeah,people are trying to copy those ideas or improve upon them.

Xbox360 has a cordless controller but its more like the gamecube in controls except for with better graphics and cordless and you can actually update games.

The main complaint i have,is perhaps they could add more mature content and the parents can stop being stupid and buying their kids games like gta and then complaining how the industry should do something,of course,that complaint is another story all together.

What i think the biggest problem,is that the technology is still being perfected and full control of the wiimote is something to be desired since the sensor sometimes is iffy and won't work.

Some games also depend too much on it and also the wrong type of games get made with this control.

I prefer metroid to be made with non wiimote controls since there are a lot of complicated fights involving dodging and this can be a royal pain in 3d and avoiding damage.

The star wars galaxy game controls on the wii are atrocious

As for full 3d:i dunno.

What i really want actually now is a good rpg that i can sit down and enjoy sometime.

If the wii could give me this,i would be very very happy,especially happy if the controls don't suck.

As for the whole star trek thing:thats a hologram room.

Yeah that kind of technology would be awesome but its beyond our capabilities yet and surely it would give us the ability to do some awesome stories.

Just imagine the room programmed like robin hood you could be robin hood for a session and use your bow and arrow.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 28th March 2011 08:56

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (sweetdude @ 27th March 2011 18:16)

I think Nintendo's great innovation is more or less a business innovation. And it's the very same business innovation which is being copied, not necessarily the product. They look to get an edge, or a gimmick, into an affordable product, and people love it. They're doing it again with the 3DS. On the face of it motion controls and 3D games are cool, they're all spacey and futuristic and fun. But then getting right down to the brass tacks it doesn't result in better games, and I don't think 3D or motion controls ever will. I can say this because taking motion controls away from the majority of generally accepted good games on the Wii (Mario, Mario and Zelda among others) will result in exactly no change whatsoever to the quality of the game. It's good, when it works, for a very limited number of action games, and I'm not saying that in a snobby way, if a game has a quality strategy, story or RPG element, why is it necessary to swing, flick or pull to make decisions? Why will it ever be better to swing, pull or flick to make decisions in a game? It's good for specific games in the same way a Light Gun can be good for shooters (and even that's up for debate).

And about that point of 'who knows how motion controls will evolve', the furthest I can imagine is some kind of Star Trek simulation room where the best of both actions and mind are put into action. That still sucks as a game!

For the most part, I agree with you about motion controls. But I don't think Nintendo's business innovation. Bringing new money allows for game designers to have more experimental freedom. But, like you, I prefer the regular controller, and often the Wiimote gets annoying.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 27th March 2011 22:00)

I'm actually annoyed by this because i think ps3 should allow us to play ps1 games as well because there are some classic ps1 games that i could play like breath of fire and parasite eve.

But.. you can.. I played ps1 games on my ps3 this morning.

As far as Nintendo goes, the change to motion controlled games on the Wii was a masterstroke in business, an absolute masterstroke. You may love them or hate them but the fact is the company lost major ground in the console war between Gamecube and PS2 (not to mention Microsoft's arrival). The Wii was a sidestep maneuver which saved them from a huge downturn.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (Blinge Odonata @ 29th March 2011 08:20)

But.. you can.. I played ps1 games on my ps3 this morning.

The modern generation of PS3 isn't backwards compatible, though. However, since PS2s are still both ubiquitous and cheap as dirt, I don't think that's a huge problem yet.

Nintendo has proven with the Wii that they are consummate businessmen. Essentially they simply untapped the very vast, fertile market of casual gamers, and in doing so has alienated the hardcore gamers they grew up with. I'm not innocent of this, of course; I'm as indifferent to Wii as most of us (though they've been doing better recently with some quality 2D platformers) and I would say the Wii's biggest drawing point, for me at least, is the virtual console, and it's a bad sign when your big drawing point at games that are 15-20 years old. But then again, I'm not Nintendo's target market any more.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

ah really, i see.

Well said, btw.

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens

Quote (BlitzSage @ 29th March 2011 04:17)

experimental freedom. But, like you, I prefer the regular controller, and often the Wiimote gets annoying.

The wiimote as you pointed out can be a royal pain on games that aren't programmed right.

In wii sports the wiimote seems to work better on the games you get for free.

Graphically speaking:wasn't it with ps2 graphics capability? i can't remember.

Anyways,i can't think of anything new to say about wii,i've said everything i could.
I guess.. I hope wii gets some really good new games out that i would like.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 30th March 2011 06:32

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 30th March 2011 01:31)

I guess.. I hope wii gets some really good new games out that i would like.

Nintendo has said they have plans for releasing The Last Story in English-speaking countries. I'm excited, at least.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (trismegistus @ 30th March 2011 07:12)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 30th March 2011 01:31)

I guess.. I hope wii gets some really good new games out that i would like.

Nintendo has said they have plans for releasing The Last Story in English-speaking countries. I'm excited, at least.

That might be interesting,i'l have to look it up,otherwise my wii will become another obsolete console like the n64 that i put away with 2 or 3 games that i never play.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 29th March 2011 04:17)

Graphically speaking:wasn't it  with ps2 graphics capability? i can't remember.

Well I think Gamecube had better graphical capabilities than PS2 (potential that wasn't reached enough times imo!). The Wii has had minor graphical improvements on the Gamecube, that should do approximately eh?

EDIT:

Quote (trismegistus)

The modern generation of PS3 isn't backwards compatible, though.

They can't play ps2 games no, however I've just confirmed that all PS3's play PSX games.


This post has been edited by Blinge Odonata on 30th March 2011 14:11

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www.youtube.com/blinje
The victor sacrificed the vanquished to the heavens