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NIrvana and smashing pumpkins and metallica do have some good songs,in fact:I find that old groups like these many times surpass newer ones like:britney spears and 50 cents.

At least nirvana's group members play instruments and so does metallica.
I believe in groups playing instruments and these 2 are at least not getting fame for just the sake of fame.

Britney spears has no talent whatsoever.

Remember the song by tom petty big wheels role? its on one of the newer albums and is talking about pop singers who are talentless like:britney spears and lady gaga.

Ok i'm going to bash michael jackson now:

He's the king of pop but that isn't necessarily a good thing.

He was talented as a dancer,but if you listen to just the music,its not that impressive without the dancing.

Going to 2000 and up:Sometimes you find a good group in between,i can say that back in 1990's there were still groups who were good and not as much junk.

Death metal:i saw this video about death metal and it was utter junk.
It was either:playing as fast as you can and screaming at the top of your lungs,or having a screechy screaming voice with some melody.

It was just terrible

I find that the best music is a melodic music and a mixture.

Even heavy metal has melody,i mean:most of the heavy metal songs i heard have melodies.

I am a aficionado of music which means that i like it.
I was brought up with really good music and i think i got a sense of what is good and what isn't.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I recently discovered that my favorite pop composer is Ritsuko Okazaki, and that my favorite artist is Melocure, Okazaki's duo with Megumi Hinata.

Then soon after that, I found that she had passed away a few years ago. Darn.

I don't think that I've really had a favorite non-classical artist, in any genre, from any country, before this. Usually, I like one or two songs by one artist, but then when I listen to their whole album I'm like, meh.

As for classical music, though, my favorite composer is Fryderyk Chopin, closely followed by Sergei Prokofiev.

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 25th November 2010 18:13)

I recently discovered that my favorite pop composer is Ritsuko Okazaki, and that my favorite artist is Melocure, Okazaki's duo with Megumi Hinata.

Then soon after that, I found that she had passed away a few years ago. Darn.

I don't think that I've really had a favorite non-classical artist, in any genre, from any country, before this. Usually, I like one or two songs by one artist, but then when I listen to their whole album I'm like, meh.

As for classical music, though, my favorite composer is Fryderyk Chopin, closely followed by Sergei Prokofiev.

You into any rock and roll?

I also tend to listen to a lot of blues.

Muddy waters
BB king
Eric clapton

Etc etc

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

i've always been a big fan of hip-hop music. ever since i was a little kid, i can't think of any form of music that's given me more enjoyment. being a kid of the 90's, i listened to a lot of Tupac, Dre, Snoop, Notorious BIG, Rakim, Wu-Tang Clan(along with its various members' solo works), and a little known rapper by the name of Eminem.

along with my mainstream interests, i listen to a lot of acts the general public either has little or no knowledge of. in 1998, i discovered a group called Atmosphere. i immediately feel in love. i have a hard time explaining their sound without sounding overly cliched, but they really do speak on a deeper level than most anything else out nowadays. even today, in an industry saturated with shallow, brainless rappers whose only concerns are money, women, and shiny cars, Slug (Atmosphere's MC) speaks to his audience about bad jobs, depression, unrequited love, heart-shattering breakups, the struggle to keep moving forward in what seems like a dead-end industry, and many other topics his listeners can relate to.

however, the lyrics are only one half of the music. The other half of Atmosphere is the DJ, Ant. his beats are a brilliant combination of jazz, funk, soul, hip-hop, hard rock, blues, and just about anything else you can imagine. for anyone who holds the belief that hip-hop is less legitimately musical than other forms of music, i challenge you to listen to any of Ant's instrumentals and tell me there isnt substance in them.


but enough about my undying love for Atmosphere. they arent the only talented game in town.

other notable acts on my radar:
POS
Aesop Rock
Aceyalone
Busdriver
Eyedea
MF DOOM

i could go on for days, but i wont.

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets

Quote

You into any rock and roll?

Not consistently. Nor rock/metal/etc. either. No genre, subgenre, or band has yet consistently captured my interest.

I'm more into classical, pop, techno, videogame, symphonic rock, epic symphonic, and light listening, with a sprinkling of country. Occasionally there will be rock, metal, rap, and such songs that I like but they are fewer.

That said, one reason for my often cross-cutting tastes is because I really like certain chord progressions, and whether I like a certain song usually depends on the details of the song.

--------------------

Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 26th November 2010 07:32)

I'm more into classical, pop, techno, videogame, symphonic rock, epic symphonic, and light listening, with a sprinkling of country. Occasionally there will be rock, metal, rap, and such songs that I like but they are fewer.

I've listened to some classical myself.

I like classical piano pieces a little more than cords half the time,although there are some i like.

I like rach manninofs stuff.

I also do enjoy mozart and bethoven.

I've heard some verdi that i found to my liking.

Eg:gloria song

Have you guys listened to morcheeba or massive attack and i also think that mc hammer's innocent songs that try to keep the song fun without being nasty.

I think that the rappers that came after mc hammer were very nasty even in their protest.

I think it is one thing to protest and put out points,and its another thing to go out of your way to attack someone deliberately without much motive.

And musically speaking,i think rap is an instrument and is often abused and treated as the main source when it is supposed to go with something else.

This is why i listen to groups like massive attack who combine reggae trip hop rap and such or morcheeba.

What i also dislike about american rap is the topics themselves a lot of time are just spreading negative attitude and not really having much of a point.

As for techno:Trip hop in a way is part techno and fatboy slim who was in freak power is a dj and there are many talented djs.

I'l have to look at that guy and see it.

If its disco techno,i hate that stuff.

Disco techno is junk and its not meant to be listened to and rather meant to be danced too.

I do find this conversation interesting though and i like where its going

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 25th November 2010 13:30)

Death metal:i saw this video about death metal and it was utter junk.
It was either:playing as fast as you can and screaming at the top of your lungs,or having a screechy screaming voice with some melody.

It was just terrible

Depends on which type of "death metal" band this was because as a longtime fan of the heavy metal genre I respectfully disagree with your statement that death metal is just "playing as fast as you can and screaming at the top of your lungs." Then again, there are many -core bands that are pretentiously passing themselves off as "death metal" just so they can be associated alongside REAL death metal bands including Death, Atheist, Pestilence, Possessed, Cancer, Obituary, Malevolent Creation, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse, and so on...

Of course, since you are a novice to extreme metal, I don't think you really would be satisfied with the above bands mentioned, since you prefer melody. However, if I were you I would hold on to that opinion until you've actually heard the bands. Sure, they do play fast (but not all the time; they do change the tempo on many of their songs as they progress), but they are still quite technical and intelligent bands with great guitar solos in my opinion.

Anyway, back on topic: I mainly listen to various forms of heavy metal (doom, NWOBHM, thrash, death, power, speed, hair, glam, etc.) on a daily basis. A favorite hobby of mine is collecting rare and out-of-print vinyls, cassette tapes, and CDs of my favorite bands that emerged back in the '70s, '80s, and early '90s.

My favorite metal bands by sub-genre:

Thrash:
Dark Angel, Exhorder, Sadus, Evil Dead, Slayer (1983-1986), Metallica (1982-1986), Anthrax, Megadeth, Fueled by Fire, Testament, Exodus, Sepultura (1985-1991), Exumer, Sacred Reich, Kreator, Death Angel, etc.
NWOBHM:
Cloven Hoof, Tokyo Blade, Satan, Angel Witch, Sweet Savage, Avenger, Iron Maiden (1979-1981), Saxon, Cynic, Def Leppard (1978-1981), Rock Goddess, Girlschool, Venom, Atomkraft, etc,
Death:
Pestilence, Atheist, Death, Possessed, Obituary, etc.
Hair/Glam:
Dokken, Ratt, Quiet Riot, Motley Crue (1981-1983), Pantera (1983-1988), etc.
Crossover:
Stormtroopers of Death, Dirty Rotten Imbeciles, Slipknot (not to be confused with the nu-metal band), etc.
Black:
Not big into black metal but I do like King Diamond's music and bands like Dark Funeral aren't bad either.

I usually hate topics like this because it quickly will turn into a case of people mistaking personal opinions for objective facts and blatantly ripping on another person's tastes for no real reason other than it not conforming to their own. For example, unlike the original poster, I am of the opinion that Lady Gaga is incredibly talented.

In general, I try to listen to everything as much as possible and keep a varied taste in music. I'd much prefer to listen to artists and gauge them on their own merit than simply to dismiss an entire genre or what have you simply because I don't like that one mainstream artist I heard on the radio that one time who also falls into that category, or because I want to seem 'more metal' or 'more hardcore' than someone else.

I was raised predominantly on an ecclectic group of artists; the Beatles, The Animals, Led Zeppelin and The Rolling Stones as a result of my father's own musical preferences, Motown classics like Gladys Knight & The Pips, Marvin Gaye, The Four Tops, Smokey Robinson and the Miracles and the Jackson Five from my Mother, and old crooners like Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., Bing Crosby and Jerry Vale from my grandparents. Throw in being a child of the 80's, I think it should be obvious that I have a taste for pop. I was exposed to classical music when I began formal guitar training and musical theory lessons, and, out of my love for rock, a natural attraction to metal later on. It just kept growing from there, to the point that I am just a junkie for music in general. Folk, indie, electro, hardcore, punk or what have you, I will listen to anything so long as it's made with passion.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

I'm pretty open, I can't think of a single genre that I hate hands-down, at least one album is always good enough to keep in my collection. Keep in mind, Magitek, that the complaints you levy against a lot of modern artists (ie that they can't play an instrument) was used against, say, the Monkees back in 1965, so it's not like things have changed much since the 'glory days'. I mostly listen to a lot of 60s European pop, British revivalist folk, 70s African folk, and Sabbath/Zeppelin-descended hard rock, but I'll give anything a try.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (trismegistus @ 29th November 2010 15:00)

Keep in mind, Magitek, that the complaints you levy against a lot of modern artists (ie that they can't play an instrument) was used against, say, the Monkees back in 1965, so it's not like things have changed much since the 'glory days'. I mostly listen to a lot of 60s European pop, British revivalist folk, 70s African folk, and Sabbath/Zeppelin-descended hard rock, but I'll give anything a try.

Very very right. This past decade, which has been dominated by hip hop, only one group one album of the year: Outkast. But keep in mind that the same thing happened to rock music in the 60s. the only rock group to even be nominated, let alone win, were the Beatles. And that was just because you couldn't really deny them. There's a lot of music I don't like in this modern era: Britney Spears, etc. But there is potential in dance/hip hop music. Yes, most rappers talk about how much money they have, but Eminem has deep songs. So does Lady Gaga, and what she's done mainly with music videos, which normally are void of substance. Heck, I've even listened recently to some of the new Rihanna stuff, and I think it has an interesting sound. Me, Mr. Blues/60's/Rock&Roll, I never thought I would say that. Really, the way to think about it is: it's a new musical direction. Rock and Roll has already been explored by the Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin. Now, people are finding new musical avenues. Trust me, I'm sure it's much better than having a bunch of Rolling Stones tribute bands.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I was raised in the 80's so i do like rock and roll.

I was raised in an era where melody was important and you still had to have talent to get somewhere.

Nowadays:you got people like:britney spears and 50 cents running the show and seem to possess smaller talent than previous groups.

I say smaller because while lyrics are a small percentage of talent,there is also composition of music.

I did only listen to 3 or 4 types of musics from that genre but the ones i listened to i hated.

I listened also to pantera and even though they do have melody,i never cared for it.

Music is not only a message,it is a vessel of which you feel.

Its a sensation like good food is to a fine pallet.

Calling a girl a cheap hoe and singing life is so hard for a pimp isn't what i would call talent.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

1. The 80's weren't leaps and bounds better. You had technology and effects covering up poor musicianship and lack of singing ability; prevalence of power chords and screaming in music changed "rock and roll" into "hard rock." Some [me] would call that a downgrade, from The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin to Guns and Roses and the like. But, still, there was still great music. Stevie Ray Vaughan, Huey Lewis, Michael Jackson, Prince.

2. I do think technology is a problem, as it always has been. In the 50's, multi-tracking was not widely used, so they had to record the song all at one time. If they messed up, they had to start at the beginning. By the time you got to the 60's though, you could redo vocals, etc. I think this can hide talent, but it can also enhance it. The people I mentioned, for instance, have utilized technology to expand the form.

Quote

Calling a girl a cheap hoe and singing life is so hard for a pimp isn't what i would call talent.

I think that generalization is unfair, and I am someone that does not prefer hip hop or dance-pop. Listen to Eminem's Cleaning Out My Closet, or Jay-Z's 99 Problems. Also, listen to Outkast's music. Sure, a lot of it is exactly how you say, but that is Sturgeon's Law, I suppose.

All that being said, I agree with you on this:

Quote

Music is not only a message,it is a vessel of which you feel.

AKA: The Electric Church

I completely agree. That's why my favorite types of music are blues and soul. To me, there's nothing like hearing Stevie Ray Vaughan play a solo, or Otis Redding belt out a powerful ballad. But, I also love songs with powerful messages; AKA: Bob Dylan.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Technology is merely a tool, an additional medium through which artists can create new music, redefine music that already exists and expand upon the very definition of what qualifies as music itself. Stating, for example, that multi-tracking, or more currently, auto-tune, is a means to hide a lack of talent is essentially the equivalent of saying a distortion effect is a means to hide the ability to play guitar, or vibrato a means to hide the inability to hold a note. It can certainly be abused and, as new mediums are developed, they can become the current 'fad' among artists, whose overuse of the tool force it to eventually 'die out' and get replaced by the next. This was true in the classical period with orchestral arrangements, it was true with big band song structure, it was true of the power chord, the guitar solo, and on and on.

Still, through these things, we've developed sub-genres, new genres entirely and expanded the realm we're able to explore in order to find what works for us. To BlitzSage, for example, a band like Nine Inch Nails may not be so appealing due to the heavy use of effects, digital media and whatnot, but that doesn't necessarily make Trent Reznor any less talented a musician than, say, Bob Dylan. And even then, virtuosity is not a prerequisite in the creation of music. One does not have to be the best singer, guitar player, pianist, lyricist or anything at all to contribute to this particular form of art. I'm not a fan of their work, but the White Stripes employ a very, very minimalistic approach to the music they create: a simple set of guitar riffs, mostly commonly three or four chords repeated over a basic drum line is their essential standard, and yet they have a large following, achieved considerable success and are considered by many to be a unique band.

With the exception of Nickleback, I genuinely don't believe there is such a thing as "bad" music. There are tons of things that don't appeal to my tastes. An example of that would be Nirvana. Sure, they're critically acclaimed, obtained great success and were one of the defining sounds of the early 90's, but personally? Hated it. I'd take the Foo Fighters over them any day of the week. Equally, it's very, very hard to say what a 'good' band is, because we all have our tastes and it's more likely than not that someone's definitive best band ever will just plain suck in someone else's eyes. For example, a friend of mine is steadfast in his belief that Megadeth are the pinnacle of metal and that their body of work is, with a few exceptions, excellent. Myself? I think Dave Mustaine can't sing to save his life and having ten guitar solos in every song is sort of beating a dead horse with another dead horse.

I guess my point is that music, like any art form, grows into many different forms and branches out in many, many different directions. The great part about it is, if you don't much care for 50 Cent, you can find an artist on the complete other end of the spectrum that will appeal to you and still have that general love for music in common with the person who DOES find 50 Cent entertaining. On that token, yes, there may be lesser deserving artists in the mainstream, or people who are less technically talented or outright incapable of performing with a single instrument. Some will make superficial music with the hopes of bragging about accomplishments, gaining attention and fame, or getting rich and some who will make music with the intent of never having it heard by anyone save themselves, with the utmost of passion and genuine love for the craft. Some of it will be intensely spiritual or political, some will be about your inability to read my poker face, so if you like it, put a ring on it. None of that really matters, though, because you either like it or you don't. If you do, great! If you don't, well, keep digging until you find something you do, because there really is something for everyone.

Unless that something is Nickleback, in which case, back into the hell-pit that birthed you, you soulless abomination. The spirit of Zod compels you! The spirit of Zod compels you!

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Okay, but there was a goat!

This is a reply to everything above plus something else:

I revoke anything i said negative about death metal if it offends you.

Its just that i heard 1 song from several artists that were plain awful.

Cannibal corpse:I heard a song from these guys and it was terrible,they were playing as fast as they can

Worm lord:The growling and screaming is absolutely horrid,its terrible

I can't remember the other guy.

I don't know if these guys usually play like that or not all the time,but if it is,then it is absolutely terrible.


2:50 cents:I saw an interview that was interesting.

It was 50 cents and bill maher you know:religulous?

50 cents was talking about his hard life and how some represented what he went through.

I don't mean all rap songs being bad,i just mean that most of the american rap groups are bad.

The thing is:Its overly negative and contributes very little.

I think a musicians should evolve and if rap is supposed to be poetry,let it be beautiful.

You said you like bob dylan,well mr bob dylan also raps sometimes but its inoffensive and its poetry.

Mr leonard cohen also is a poet and even though he sings,he also has amazing lyrics.

3:Rock/heavy metal etc:

I think that 9 inch nails is probably better than a lot of stuff that is coming out now,in fact in the 80's we had some really good rock bands and early mid 90's.

I grew up in the era that smashing pumpkins and green day and nirvana and guns and roses and bon jovi and all those guys were popular.

You know what? they continue to be popular for a reason:They have talent.

As much as i want to admit that i don't like metallica,they actually have a good tune.

4:Tools:

The problem is not the use of tools dragon fire,the problem is that a lot of people want to be famous for the sake of fame.

I feel that britney spears and lady gaga contribute very little to the musical society

It takes real effort to be talented and real effort to use every new technology to do something new.

5:80's:

Blitzsage,i believe that the 80's did have a lot of trash music,but you still had some really talented people.

take for an example:queen who was around in the 70's as well and 80's
Guns and roses who i don't know exactly when they started but they were around a lot in the 80's

Then look at some of the other musicians of the 80's:madonna and compare madonna to britney spears.

In the 80's you still had a lot of musicians that may make 1 good song or not.

I never cared much for prince for an example,or michael jackson or new kids on the block or rick astley who for me is the most annoying of all 80's group.


Now question is:do groups like:cannibal corpse play with fast strumming and wild over the place drums and screaming?



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I like a lot, but a lot of what I listen to is happy, upbeat pop because it's easy to listen to while driving, dancing, working out, and cleaning. I do those things a lot. When I'm in any other mood, I'll listen to 90's rock.

I adore Lady Gaga. If anyone doesn't respect her as a musician, I'd say search up Stefani Germanotta, her real name. There's a few of her songs out there on Youtube that people who don't like Gaga warm up to. As Stefani, she was likened to be the "Next Norah Jones." She's been classically trained on the piano since she was four, so to say she doesn't have musical ability isn't really fair.

I like Ke$ha, too, because her songs are fun and light-hearted. It's simple Same with Britney. Same with Disney songs. Sorry, but I'm not judging guitar ballads and chord progressions when I'm on the interstate or washing dishes. I'm singing!

Right there with Mal! I love Atmosphere!

I like a lot, haha. This is what hitting shuffle on my mp3 player does: Eric Clapton, Shwayze, Our Lady Peace (every album!), Jewel (Probably six albums!), Counting Crows, Cake, Eisley, Queen, Daft Punk, Oasis, Taylor Swift (all 3 albums!), Anna Nalick, Matchbox 20, Tool, Avril Levigne, Flobots, Death Cab, Jimmy Eat World, Aqua, Aesop Rock, Evanescence, Neurosonic, Daddy Yankee, Rasputina, Atmosphere, Smashmouth, Spice Girls, The Used, Hanson, Relient K, Journey... Whatever I like. I can't explain what makes me like it. I just do.

I love Kristen Chenoweth, though she's a broadway singer. She's so cute!

Lately Taylor Swift has been my kick. Big time My husband has been going crazy because of this, haha. I always play it in the car, and he has like, 9 gigs of Dream Theater alone as variety.

The only bands I dislike are Dream Theater and Muse. Pretty awful of me, haha. Muse's voice is too violin-ey, and Dream Theater... haha. To be honest, it's not rational why I don't like them. The singer's voice and the lyric combination just SOUNDS like some guy who wears socks with velcro strappy sandals and blue jean shorts who plays D&D would sing, and that bothers me. Not rational, but that's the reason. When I hear them, that's what I picture, and I don't like it.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (Magitek_slayer)

I don't mean all rap songs being bad,i just mean that most of the american rap groups are bad.

The thing is:Its overly negative and contributes very little.

I think a musicians should evolve and if rap is supposed to be poetry,let it be beautiful.

well that's just the thing. there's so much beautiful poetic hip-hop out there. the problem is that it rarely gets the attention it deserves. every now and then an artist like Common or Lupe Fiasco(for the most part, anyway) will slip through into the mainstream. unfortunately, truly poetic rap music has to be sought out, because you're almost guaranteed to never hear it on the radio.

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets

Quote (Malevolence @ 3rd December 2010 16:10)

Quote (Magitek_slayer)

I don't mean all rap songs being bad,i just mean that most of the american rap groups are bad.

The thing is:Its overly negative and contributes very little.

I think a musicians should evolve and if rap is supposed to be poetry,let it be beautiful.

well that's just the thing. there's so much beautiful poetic hip-hop out there. the problem is that it rarely gets the attention it deserves. every now and then an artist like Common or Lupe Fiasco(for the most part, anyway) will slip through into the mainstream. unfortunately, truly poetic rap music has to be sought out, because you're almost guaranteed to never hear it on the radio.

Rarely.

Everybody wants to be famous and not put work into the song.

I still say britney spears and lady gaga have no talent.

The music she plays is pop junk and takes off her clothes and dance.

People like britney spears i heard depends on her manager or something to write a hit song and takes off her clothes and dance around.

No offense,but her songs truly do suck.

The real genius behind the songs hit is not britney spears at all in fact,she can't play an instrument as far as i know and she certainly doesn't seem like the type who knows how to compose.

One of you guys said you liked classical music,i believe it was blitzsage.

classical composers actually worked on the song to make it decent,it wasn't all video.

Nowadays all you need to do is take off all your clothes and dance around to be famous.

I also despise eminem.

That song slim shady was just plain mean.

That's one thing i despise about rap,most(not all) go out of their way to offend someone and insult them with the wrong sort of reasoning and give the image that being a hood and a gangsta and going out and killing someone is ok and that selling drugs and being a pimp is the life to go.

I'd say that this is a very crooked road to go on.

Also listen to the beat,notice how they often use pretty much similar beats and rythms.

R&b is also not the same as it used to be,in the 60's there was church music and more instruments involved and not just:OH BABY BABY!!

And many times you have those female singers who scream instead of singing

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

There is a certain type of authenticity that lies at the core of the rock 'n' roll ethos. This ethos says that in order to be worthy of respect, music must be 'authentic' in two related senses. First, it must conform to a do-it-yourself ethic; the band must compose and perform its own music. Second, motives matter. It must be 'all about the music'; the musicians must not appear to be motivated by the pursuit of fame or money. Certainly they must not be seen as 'corporate products' who were constructed just to sell singles and merchandise. Many music fans adhere to some version of these values, since rock 'n' roll and its offshoots dominated our musical culture for much of the second half of the 20th Century.

I believe this is the reason that Lady Gaga is popular not only among pop fans but also among hipsters and indie rock fans. She possesses the kind of authenticity that rock fans care about. She composes her own songs, sings live, and plays an instrument. (See this, for example.) She developed her style and her persona by playing in clubs before becoming famous, so she can't be accused of being a corporate product. She claims not to care about money (but then, even filthy rich rock 'n' roll stars universally viewed as 'sell-outs' say the same thing). Sure, her persona is as big part of her overall presentation as her music -- but is that so different from the uber-sexual swagger of Jagger, the unwashed flannel of Cobain, etc.? All these things makes it okay for rock fans to like Gaga, while liking, say, Britney Spears would be frowned upon.

The odd thing, of course, is that none of this has anything to do with what her music actually sounds like. More broadly, the idea of rock 'n' roll authenticity pertains to the narrative surrounding a piece of music (e.g. Who wrote it? Why did they do it? What tools and compositional methods did they use? etc.) and not to the piece of music itself.

This is sort of weird. Luciano Pavarotti never wrote any music and did not play a musical instrument, but few would claim that he was a poor musician or that the music he performed was inauthentic or worthless. Much of the music that the great composers wrote was done for money, but we typically do not let that cloud our assessment of the compositions as compositions. Hip hop -- the form that supplanted rock as the dominant style in modern popular music -- does not seem to have quite the same set of 'lo-fi DIY' values at its core, although I don't know much about hip hop and I'm sure there are others here who would be better equipped to comment on that.

Why did rock 'n' roll develop this particular set of values? Are they 'good' values? Or do they cause rock fans to overlook good music because it doesn't exemplify the right set of values? These are interesting questions. I'm sure books have been written about them. I should find some.



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Always hopeful, yet discontent; he knows changes aren't permanent --
But change is!

Quote (Alexandr @ 3rd December 2010 21:29)

Why did rock 'n' roll develop this particular set of values? Are they 'good' values? Or do they cause rock fans to overlook good music because it doesn't exemplify the right set of values? These are interesting questions. I'm sure books have been written about them. I should find some.

Actually,its an interesting story.

Pavarotti was born with a voice and practiced it,but he probably was also trained in singing.

Singing is an instrument in a song and the multiple layers of sound add to the song.

Some singers like jazz singers may add that sad touch needed or whatever kind of touch.

I think for an example that i prefer leonard cohen singing his poetry even though i know he isn't the best singer and hasn't got that great a voice but its his words and when he speaks them,he feels those words.

Even new kids on the block is pop junk made for teens that know nothing of music and having a few guys do love songs that are corny and only work when the words are true.

When phil collins writes a love song and sings it,it sounds really corny.

When its done by leonard cohen,it doesn't sound sappy at all,it sounds good because it sounds true.

The problem is:A lot of times also the words are just words and not truly meant what they say,or maybe the singer himself doesn't believe it.

Dancing is nice,but dancing is not the song,

This isn't broadway.

Also,i wouldn't ever dance to a britney spears song even if it were on broadway and i would be ashamed.

I consider dancing showmanship and entertainment,

Sure its great on live watching and is something totally different.

Dancing also requires talent and moving your hips left and right isn't considered talent,michael jackson had a lot of talent,but without those dances,i simply fail to see it being as impressive listening to just the song.

Its like:beat it is famous and the dance is really famous,its a great song but its even better with that dance.

There is also no all rock being good.

Some rock is good and some of it isn't as good as the rest.

I think part of the set in value i look for is:good singer good musicians who put a lot of effort into their music and making an actual melody or experiment

White stripes to name one i heard that jack white can play almost any string instrument,and he hasn't been around long,

Of course being talented or not is a different story.

Look at jimmy vaughn(stevie ray vaughn's brother.

He's better at technical guitar but doesn't have the voice of stevie ray that goes with the music or the heart.

You are either born with certain traits that turn you into a talented musician or you die trying.

But i know for a fact that many of these so called pop star girls put little effort.

I've heard songs from britney spears and she puts very little to no effort in her music and she is pretty much a barbie doll and that is it.

When i heard her sing i wasn't impressed at all.

I heard i think 3 songs or 4 from eminem that i wasn't impressed with,i don't know if all of the songs are the same,but 1 of them was the one where he says i'm sorry father the other slim shady and i can't remember the other 2 songs.

I know that i didn't like those songs so i tend to stay away from his music.

Nirvana even though i don't care for them that much because it reminds me of the doors who do have a few really good songs that stand out,i don't find that they stand out enough for me.

I have listened to entire albums of the door but i can't name all the songs because i'm not a doors fan and i don't remember them.

Here is the thing:if you make a new group that is unknown and puts effort into a song and not known that sucks but you put a huge amount of effort,i'd at least say to you:hey you put a huge amount of effort into it,try again.

Now pop songs are built for one thing:money.

Most pop songs are generic sappy songs built with singers who can't sing and scream instead of sing and the bottom line is money.

I like some of the music by beck who is popular but i don't like all of his stuff.

I think beneath all the really popular music,there is also music that is popular because its good,but its usually really old groups because in the 60s and 70's,you had to work to get fame and you didn't have a video to distract people.

The thing is,as time goes on,we have more and more groups who are famous for the sake of being famous and not as many who are famous for actually being talented singers/instruments and such.

That's why i like rock and roll,you actually need proof that you are talented by playing an instrument or singing.

Anyone can synthesize some random song,but few can make something truly original and inspired.

The proof that the people who do not possess talent but are famous are forgotten about.

Britney spears is disappearing and the spice girls are disappearing and new kids on the block disappeared.

I think there is a certain line of mainstream that i use to judge both games movies and music.

In music,i try to find a pattern if something that sounds fresh doesn't sound like everything else.

The problem with listening to metallica at times for an example:its good for movies but i find the music to sound the same a lot of times and the songs bore me eventually.

They make good songs as i said its the line of good instruments and respect them,but i don't care for their music that much.

Another example of person i'd say i respect as an artist:marilyn manson:I hear that his music dialogue has a lot of anti drugs and really tries to discourage people from really bad behavior.

I do not know if this is true because i heard like 2 or 3 songs and even though i don't like the type of music,i respect the fact that he tries to make a difference.

Another thing i learned:You can have a beautiful voice and not know how to use it.

There are some singers who are trained and it helps stylize their music and give it and edge.

I think that beth givens from portishead stands out in music and maybe singing.

Her music is a style that even inspired the makers of silent hill.

Just listen to some of the music from silent hill and notice how the scratch record effects and heavy sound really reminds you of portishead.

Sometimes you may even be reminded of the song nobody loves not like you do.

That certain guitar rift that really stands out.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 4th December 2010 02:23

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 29th November 2010 10:27)

I usually hate topics like this because it quickly will turn into a case of people mistaking personal opinions for objective facts and blatantly ripping on another person's tastes for no real reason other than it not conforming to their own.

This.

I can't stand 90% of metal bands, rap & hip-hop artists, pop, R&B, rock artists (I think you get the picture). But at the same time, that doesn't mean I think they're necessarily no-talent hacks. Pearl Jam is still one of my all-time favorite bands. And every once in a while I'll find one that I actually enjoy--Common springs to mind.

Personally though, I love folk/indie stuff. If the music is minimalist/acoustic and the artist sings passionately (singing brilliantly is not a requirement, though it helps), then I'm probably making it out with it right now. Bon Iver, Regina Spektor, Jaymay, City and Colour, Port O'Brien--that sort of music and I get along swimmingly. That said, I don't love anything even they do. For me, it's all about the individual songs. Maybe I'm just a too-picky bastard, but whatever.

Quote (Kane @ 4th December 2010 19:30)

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 29th November 2010 10:27)

I usually hate topics like this because it quickly will turn into a case of people mistaking personal opinions for objective facts and blatantly ripping on another person's tastes for no real reason other than it not conforming to their own.

This.

I can't stand 90% of metal bands, rap & hip-hop artists, pop, R&B, rock artists (I think you get the picture). But at the same time, that doesn't mean I think they're necessarily no-talent hacks. Pearl Jam is still one of my all-time favorite bands. And every once in a while I'll find one that I actually enjoy--Common springs to mind.

Personally though, I love folk/indie stuff. If the music is minimalist/acoustic and the artist sings passionately (singing brilliantly is not a requirement, though it helps), then I'm probably making it out with it right now. Bon Iver, Regina Spektor, Jaymay, City and Colour, Port O'Brien--that sort of music and I get along swimmingly. That said, I don't love anything even they do. For me, it's all about the individual songs. Maybe I'm just a too-picky bastard, but whatever.

There are also countless people who defend something because they like it and it might not necessarily be good.

The biggest listeners of bad music are kids primarily.

Young teens.

Coincidence? I don't think so because they listen to whats on the radio and want to fit in and dance and have fun.

There is nothing wrong with having fun,but there is music to dance to and music to listen to.

The song that says i'm a barbie girl isn't exactly a good influence and teaches women that prostitution and being a slut is ok.

I'd say that is not exactly the best type of song for a kid.

All i'm saying is:Britney spears and 50 cents isn't exactly the perfect ideal model for future generation kids.

They aren't influencing kids to learn or anything,their message isn't exactly very positive.

I think we should take a closer look and examine music of today.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 4th December 2010 21:19

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

In the case of Aqua's Barbie Girl, it was actually a satirical jab at the Barbie aesthetic and the superficiality of the 'Barbie' dream-world. Contrarily, Marilyn Manson, while no longer an addict, supports the use of recreational drugs and his shock-rock, goth-glam character is hardly someone I'd suggest taking moral advice from. A lot of what you're saying, Magitek_Slayer, amounts to nothing. You're confusing objective traits with subjective opinions on the matter, like the idea of Phil Collins being sappy versus Leonard Cohen. Equally untrue and rather unfair of you is this claim that good music must also be positive. I grew up listening to a lot of angry music. The Smashing Pumpkins, Rage Against the Machine, Nine Inch Nails and Tool come to mind. I personally consider these to be some of the greatest musical acts to come from the 90's, but they weren't necessarily 'positive'. I may be alone in thinking this, but music shouldn't solely focus on being a positive influence for children. As it is most commonly labeled an art form, I think it often can cover the entire gamut of human emotions, and in some cases, might not necessarily want to express anything at all other than being music for the sake of making music.

I imagine my parent's parents didn't feel as if Jim Morrison was a particularly good role model to my father, nor did my father think that Billy Corgan, Trent Reznor or the like were particularly good influences to me. That, however, is not something I'd consider when evaluating what music I enjoy, or what defines my personal concept of 'good music'. As an example: I absolutely adore Kanye West. I think his music is catchy, entertaining and often actually quite inspired compared to many of his mainstream rap counterparts. Do I base this opinion on who he is as a person? No. I recognize that he is the living embodiment of a douchebag, and a complete, unashamed narcissist. Equally unimportant is whether or not I'd want an eight year old child listening to Kanye, or if I think he'd be a good role model to some teenager somewhere.

To touch on what Alexandr said, I don't really believe that an artist must represent the "do it yourself" aesthetic to get that rock n roll appeal, but it certainly helps make the artist easier for people to relate to. Personally, I don't particularly care who wrote the song, so long as the artist does it in a way that I can enjoy. Toxic, by Britney Spears, is a masterclass in pop music. Did she write the song herself, pouring over arrangements, selecting the instruments that would be used or sampled, compose her vocal delivery and then record the song? Probably not. In fact, I'm pretty sure she stood in some soundbooth, was coached as to how to sing the track by someone else and simply sang it. Do I care? Not even remotely. I still enjoy the song completely and utterly. On the other hand, an artist who does write his own songs, perform them and has his fellow members play their own instruments, while at the same time contributing to not just the musical canon but to prominent world issues might not be someone I particularly care for. I hate Bono. I absolutely, positively, utterly and completely despire Bono. Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate. I have never been able to listen to U2 without changing the station, skipping the track or just tuning out completely. Their music just does nothing for me at all, and despite all the positive things Bono spends his time doing and all his worthwile contributions, I still wish he'd shut up every single time he opens his mouth to the point of an entirely irrational sense of hatred. But, I can admit that his band has their merits. I won't say that U2 are talentless or that they suck just because I don't personally see it in them.

I feel like all I've heard from Magitek_Slayer,

outside

of

writing

like

this

for

no

reason

at

all, (not so much fun when YOU have to read this way, is it?)

are a lot of subjective reasons why you personally don't care for many of today's artists. That does not, however, make any of them bad. I'd argue that it takes an immense amount of practice, effort and skill to dance any of the routines that Britney, as an example, has performed and that equally, her voice may not be the best, but again, virtuosity is not a prerequisite here. She doesn't have to be the best, or even very good. She just has to be enjoyable and entertaining by at least someone's perspective. To ignore that and simply call her talentless or to say she or any other pop star puts no effort into their craft just because the music they perform wasn't written by that person is ignorant of what it really takes to be a pop star.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

I imagine my parent's parents didn't feel as if Jim Morrison was a particularly good role model to my father, nor did my father think that Billy Corgan, Trent Reznor or the like were particularly good influences to me. That, however, is not something I'd consider when evaluating what music I enjoy, or what defines my personal concept of 'good music'. As an example: I absolutely adore Kanye West. I think his music is catchy, entertaining and often actually quite inspired compared to many of his mainstream rap counterparts. Do I base this opinion on who he is as a person? No. I recognize that he is the living embodiment of a douchebag, and a complete, unashamed narcissist. Equally unimportant is whether or not I'd want an eight year old child listening to Kanye, or if I think he'd be a good role model to some teenager somewhere.

To touch on what Alexandr said, I don't really believe that an artist must represent the "do it yourself" aesthetic to get that rock n roll appeal, but it certainly helps make the artist easier for people to relate to. Personally, I don't particularly care who wrote the song, so long as the artist does it in a way that I can enjoy. Toxic, by Britney Spears, is a masterclass in pop music. Did she write the song herself, pouring over arrangements, selecting the instruments that would be used or sampled, compose her vocal delivery and then record the song? Probably not. In fact, I'm pretty sure she stood in some soundbooth, was coached as to how to sing the track by someone else and simply sang it. Do I care? Not even remotely. I still enjoy the song completely and utterly. On the other hand, an artist who does write his own songs, perform them and has his fellow members play their own instruments, while at the same time contributing to not just the musical canon but to prominent world issues might not be someone I particularly care for. I hate Bono. I absolutely, positively, utterly and completely despire Bono. Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate. I have never been able to listen to U2 without changing the station, skipping the track or just tuning out completely. Their music just does nothing for me at all, and despite all the positive things Bono spends his time doing and all his worthwile contributions, I still wish he'd shut up every single time he opens his mouth to the point of an entirely irrational sense of hatred. But, I can admit that his band has their merits. I won't say that U2 are talentless or that they suck just because I don't personally see it in them.

I
Positive influence is very important.

Music has always has its points:

Melody:Lets face it,if i might as well listen to generators rumbling if i want to listen to a bunch of noise.

Its making a perfect melody and adding together something truly unique and stylish that it stands out.

Its not easy to make something that is worth listening to and stands out.

You are very opinionated and too defensive on the side of rap.

Tell me:How is talking about drug dealing constantly bring any good to this world huh? it just reinforces violent behavior and reinforces that women are whores and should be treated.

I'm sorry ranger51 if that word is forbidden,but i'm trying to find an appropiate word to express just one of rappers limited subject.

I've heard a bunch of songs from rappers and almost always are negative and bring nothing good to this world.

Its even unique because there are 50 other guys doing the same thing.

Same goes for britney spears,there are many people like her and she doesn't stand out,only reason she is even famous is because she is a teen pop music and shouldn't even be considered that.

As much as i do like phil collins,it takes talent to write a love song that doesn't sound cheesy.

You require a great amount of skill to write music and to write lyrics.

And i heard that the guy who composed all of britneys stuff was pretty good.

But it all sounds like pop,you llsten to that song tell me what you want by the spice girls and you listen to:oops i did it again,and they all sound like pop fluff that is for discos.

You might disregard my opinion,but its all for a good reason.

I'm against fame for the sake of fame,i'm all for talented people who try and care about actually trying to make good music and not out to make a quick buck by sleeping with some guy and getting on the press for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el0DJSLVjKk

See that erotic like dance and she can't sing for all the money she gets.

This is what you call:POP FLUFF!!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pop%20fluff

All she does is spend half or 75% of the time taking off her clothes to get eyes on her.

She is also a slob and trailer trash.

http://www.showbizspy.com/article/208577/b...on-dropped.html.

I say that:Yeah ok this is nothing to do with music,but her music sucks anyways because even her dances don't really matter and she can't sing worth or play instruments.

Not once have i seen her actually try to play an instrument,all she cares about i being the center of attention.

Music is about having passion for the subject and not doing it just for money or fame.

I could write a crappy love song if i wanted and i bet if i put 5 or 6 nude girls and paid some hobo to make the song it would be a hit and make billions.

Don't confuse fluff with music,there is a difference between actual talent and taking off your clothes.

Real music used to be about trying to actually play,learning to sing gaining a style.

The musicians who are famous but good actually know how to sing and compose and actually do something else.

Lady gaga has no style in music whatsoever and neither does britney spears,they are simply out for fame and fortune.

Do you know why britney is in the spotlight? because she finds ways to get there by taking off her clothes and humping some other singer and having a baby and acting like a slut to get there.

And that doesn't mean good musicians don't mess up,they do.

Real music and talent comes from inspiration and not the desire to be famous.

How many rappers can you name who actually aren't provoking further rile up the black populace and white and are so violent that get censored in america?

I've heard that rap has begun to become censored due to its over violent status.

Or perhaps the extreme ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUOnL3eZzEk
This is one reason.

There are alot of people who don't put effort into their music.


This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 5th December 2010 03:58

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 4th December 2010 22:30)

Positive influence is very important.

Absolutely ludicrous. To say that positive message is the most important part of music is like saying that the only movies worth watching are all-ages and family friendly. Music is an art just like any other and is multifaceted. This isn't to say that positive music can't be artistic (Peter, Paul and Mary's childrens album gives me goosebumps at points) but I would say that positive message is totally nonentity in determining artistic merit. One of the alltime greatest books ever written is Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian, but I can think of almost nothing more negative and child-unfriendly ever created. Does this make it a bad piece of work? Of course not. What about movies like Seven Samurai or A Clockwork Orange or Akira? What about albums like The White Album (drug use) or In Utero (misanthropy) or Paul's Boutique (throwing eggs at people)? There's plenty of non-negative rappers in this world, as well; what about Biz Markee or Da La Soul, cLOUDDEAD or Atmosphere, Del tha Funkee Homosapien or The Fugees? How can you write off a whole genre when you're so uninformed about it? And really, i don't even like rap, some of the productions are impressive but it's not generally my thing. That doesn't mean that I spit on it, and it's silly to be so worried about what other people are listening to. Who cares if Britney doesn't write her own music? Like I said last post, neither did the Monkees and that was 45 years ago, people are drawn to pop music and they always will be. You said "don't confuse fluff with music", but more apt would be "don't confuse opinion for fact".

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 4th December 2010 23:30)

Wall of stupid.

If there was a "like" button for CoN posts, I would hit it on yours repeatedly, trismegistus.

Again, Magitek_Slayer, you're imposing your poorly informed set of beliefs and opinions onto an entire form of art. Music can and often does represent literally anything the artist would like it to. If that focus is on gun, drugs and sexual activity, that is their right. You don't have to like it, approve of it or see it as a positive influence because these things are completely and utterly irrelevant to the artist. They aren't all trying to better the world or raise your children to be better people.

Nor does all music need to be structured and melodic! I'm an avid fan of the Dillinger Escape Plan, whose music is almost exclusively off-timed beats, oddly tuned instruments, screaming and random sound effects. They aren't for everyone as it can be very chaotic and a bit unapproachable, but it's still pleasing to at least my ears. They're absolutely far from talentless, however. It's been said before, I'll say it again: not all music is for everyone. This doesn't discredit any one form or make one more esteemed, it simply means we each have a taste for something different. The simple fact is, you more than likely CAN'T write something equally as catchy. In fact, I outright challenge you to do so! Maybe then you'd appreciate just how much talent, dedication and work goes into what artists like Britney Spears or Lady Gaga do. It's easy to criticize from the sidelines, make broad generalizations and discredit things you don't want to understand, but it's really your own loss.

You realize, of course, that not all Beatles songs were written exclusively by the Beatles for example. You want to talk about taking clothes off to get famous? Jim Morrison was a well documented exhibitionist. They didn't call him the Lizard King for nothing. Want to know what David Bowie, Steven Tyler, Elton John, Jimmy Page, Kurt Cobaine, Freddie Mercury and countless other 'acclaimed' artists had in common? Cocaine. So, what does it matter? What a musician does in their personal life is their business. Who they are outside their art is irrelevant, because ultimately, if you're judging music based upon the personality of the musician as opposed to the work itself, you're doing it wrong. You keep making this broad, sweeping generalizations, then mixing your opinion for some kind of fact. In your eyes, Lady Gaga has no style, Britney no talent, rap is violent and music should have some positive influence, be melodic and people have to play their own instruments.. Well, that's great and you can think however you like, but none of these things are true to anyone but yourself. I'm fairly sure, however, that fans of mash ups, electronica, various forms of metal, math rock and indie would express an alternate opinion entirely. So, yeah, please stop confusing those opinions for facts.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Magitek, since you judged the entirety of the death metal genre by just *one* song, I think you need to listen to some more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utqWrkVEQvI
Mother Man by Atheist - An awesome, technical death metal song that doesn't "try to be too fast" and has meaningful lyrics about the world:

Quote

You say there''s freedom
Within our nature
Well I don''t think you understand
Mother Earth has fallen to Mother Man
The Air, the Sea, the Grass, the Trees,
The nemesis is the major,
Fearless leader Mother Man.

Come on take a look
At what''s become
Of the existence that leads
Or so we think
That''s always a popular phrase
It suits the laws written
By dear Mother Man,
Those heavy hands.

What man creates man will surely destroy
The rule of thumb
In the mouths of little boys
Earth spins delight
We kill everything in sight
To serve the needs
And all purple skies will bleed

And a bird flies weak
Against polluted skies
Before it dies
And nature becomes illegal
According to rules
Made by fools

Sift through the information
Everlasting hesitation
To reveal all knowing vices
All the compomising prices
Untouched by the law binders
Setting standards to remind us
That the ink has dried
Behind the goal
We wish to achieve is gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkKOfB_g5rk
Lack of Comprehension by Death - A classic jam amongst the fans of the band Death. The vocals should be pretty intelligible and the lyrics are also pretty insightful... how so many people fail to comprehend the things that they go through in their lives. Also, the guitar solo is quite melodic. Listen to that!

Quote

A condeming fear strikes down
Things they cannot understand
An excuse to cover up weaknesses that lie within
Lies
Laying your guilt and pain
On people that had no part in the molding of a life
That creates its destruction
Lies
Right before your very eyes
A reflection of the mistakes
To the end you will deny
Your part in the demise of a life
Lack of comprehension
Thriving on your cliche
Compelled by self-resentment
Reaching into the minds of those that created
The depression in which they
In which they drowned their flesh and blood
Lies
So easy to blame the
Everlasting fear on a pathetic attempt
To justify the ending of life
Lies
Right before your very eyes
A reflection of the mistakes
To the end you will deny
Your part in the demise of a life
Lack of comprehension
Thriving on your cliche
Compelled by self-resentment

Tell me what you think of these songs. You like songs with a "positive influence," don't you? Then the lyrics should serve your tastes well. And sure, not all death metal songs are "melodic," but many of the bands still shine in pure brilliance (especially the old school innovators like Possessed and Death).

Quote (trismegistus @ 5th December 2010 04:53)

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 4th December 2010 22:30)

Positive influence is very important.

Absolutely ludicrous. To say that positive message is the most important part of music is like saying that the only movies worth watching are all-ages and family friendly. Music is00

You have to look at the big pig picture when looking at rappers.

What imagery do they give? That of thugs being ok and going out and killing and they themselves are criminals at least 50%-75% of the time.

I'm not saying that songs can't be unhappy,but when music influences kids to become criminals and many times these guys go to prison,i'd say that their actions speak louder than words.

Jim morrison had problems and i never liked him personally.He has some good songs but he got too drunk and out of control on the stage because he was drunk,i read a biography on him.

If you are comparing britney spears and the beatles,shame on you.
George harrison has a riff in music that actually is recognizeable and made his own.John lennon can and has composed lots of music and works very hard to make his stuff good.

What song has britney spears ever composed?
What instrument does she play? every time i see her i don't see her playing any instrument.

Music is supposed to inspire influence flow.Dance music is good but when you can't recognize 1 music from another and its tune catchy but forgettable,then you have a case of music not being very good.

I listened to both music you presented and while at moments there are some good parts,they scream too often and when they are melodical,i like the first one a little less than the second.While it does have a melody,i stand correct that they scream too often and scream more often than in heavy metal and play faster.

Also:I'm going to include a few links of music from death metal that i think are absolutely horrid:
Cannibal corpse samples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2PzagXsD0Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgnEU77kcA8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOb6JSQd-Qw

Wormlord:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkJUEPCknM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXqFxV4FYaQ&feature=related

What is up with the screaming?
DId you see that video how fast the guy was playing on his guitar? look at the close up.

Metallica
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QP-SIW6iKY really good song with melody



This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 5th December 2010 11:22

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Magitek, I love how you completely fail to address the points everybody else is making and just spout the same piles of bovine feces over and over.

What are you, Helen Lovejoy?

And seriously, "Enter Sandman" as a good Metallica song? I mean, yeah, I love to listen to the Black Album, but compared to Justice for All and Master of the Puppets it's just so damn uninspired.

As to the topic, I've been reading this thread while listening to some music I have strong opinions on, so let's get cracking.

I don't care about the message of rap, but then again, my favourite rap artists will, most probably, forever be the Beastie Boys, whose lyrics I never quite got, except "You gotta fight for your right". They just sound so RIGHT to me.

Also, could someone draw a line between Black and Death metal for me? I can't really tell the defining features of either genre.
Then again, I don't car much for these, although I like a few pieces that made it to the Brutal Legend soundtrack - "Progenies of the Great Apocalypse" and "Her Ghost in the Fog" most prominently - but that's probably also due to the fact that they accurately used to portray the atmosphere of the moments they acted as BGM to.
And "Progenies" sounds so damn epic

Pop! Pop is there to have fun, guys. That's the point of it, nothing more, nothing less. It's always been true for Michael Jackson, for Madonna, for Britney, for every pop-rock band out there and so it is for Lady Gaga.
And Gaga herself is actually pretty good on the ears, even if her videos creep the living daylights out of me.

Other stuff is there, too - as I write this, "Truth of tomorrow" by Machinae Supremacy is booming out of my speakers, I listen to Ayreon regularily and with great devotion, Tchaikovsky is one of my all-time favourite composers due to his impressive use of the bass instruments.

And what's wrong with musicians making music for money? How is it a worse thing than sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day for less cash? If you don't like it, just don't listen to it. That's not a problem, is it?

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 5th December 2010 13:25)

And what's wrong with musicians making music for money? How is it a worse thing than sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day for less cash? If you don't like it, just don't listen to it. That's not a problem, is it?

Because there are more bands than before who make songs for the sole purpose of money.

There are musicians who do work hard to earn their money,but they also make a fine line and try to make quality over quantity.

I can't really say much about beastie boys except that i know that song.

I heard a few of their songs and they are quite famous.

Even in pop culture just because its popular amongst teens doesn't mean its good.
Teens listen to a lot of really bad music and don't know any better because they listen to whats on the radio and what other people like.

Going back to metal,those music pieces i showed you from death metal are plain awful.

I don't care that much for metallica in itself and i don't listen ever to metallica cause really i don't get into it that much,i do admit that at least they have a melody.

Here are several components of music that are very important:Beat melody and instruments right?

In some death metal music,particularly those 2 i showed,there are segments of the songs that have absolutely no melody at all and are playing as fast as they can and screaming at the top of their lungs.That first song i showed you by cannibal corpse doesn't even have lyrics at all.

The question is:where does the fine line that divides good music and bad music lie?

You see:I may not like something but there are musics that i admit at least have a melody and even though i would never listen to them because i don't really like metallica,i still think at least they have melody.

Melody makes the music flow and percussion carries the rythm.

And no,i'm not like helen lovejoy,

I listen to all sorts of musics and enjoy all sorts of stuff.

Oh i want to bring another thing to topic:

Anyone else here annoyed by sinthesized voices and sincesized instruments like disco music?

Sometimes it can come out good but most of the time it sounds all the same.

When i go to discos i find that most of the time i find that the techno they use is pretty much a clone of the other stuff with small variables.

Let me think about black metal thing and i'l get back.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

first off, Magitek, i'm gonna have to ask you to stop lumping every rapper together into this "thugs who will end up in prison someday" category. what you're making rap out to be an entirely shallow genre completely devoid of artistic value. A) what you're referring is a pretty good percentage of rap, i'll admit. but it's not all there is. no one can dictate what is and isn't artistically valid. it simply cant be done.

Quote (Jav)

I usually hate topics like this because it quickly will turn into a case of people mistaking personal opinions for objective facts

seems you were right.

i dont have much of an opinion on other forms of music, as i'm not particularly well-versed in any other genre other than hip-hop. but what i can do is suggest to you, and anyone else who has the time to listen, some artists that are worth your ear.
Youtube: POS - Optimist
Youtube: Atmosphere - Freefallin'
Youtube: Atmosphere - Party for the Fight to Write (just because someone brought up the Beastie Boys earlier )
Youtube: Busdriver - Avantcore
Youtube: Aesop Rock - Non Shall Pass (i actually gotta thank the CoN chatroom for turning me on to this guy)

you can keep saying that rap is nothing but thugs obsessed with money, cars, and women. but just know that it isn't true.

This post has been edited by Malevolence on 5th December 2010 19:02

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moé in the streets, senpai in the sheets