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I have been playing alot of rpg's lately and started to realize something. It seems every rpg i play falls short in one way or another. Such as huge difficulty spikes, linear gameplay, or sad to say a huge lack in story. Are there any good rpg's still out there??? So after some time i must ask are there any who deserve glory still and which games are just not worthy... Plz help i cant afford any more bad games.thx

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Why is it that rpg's are now a dying breed?

Sometimes I feel that FF games have gone downhill over the past decade. I hated how linear FFX was. There was no free-roaming and all the maps were just long single paths. FFXII was better about this, but you still lost that freedom you got from riding your ship/dragon/airship/chocobo around the world map to try and find things.

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Wha? Thanks to me?

im gonna say no to rpgs as a whole and yes to final fantasy games. in my opinion, its been a bit of a roller coaster ride with the FF franchise. it peaked at ff ix, went downhill with X, X-2, and XI, went back up for XII and lost all its progress with XIII. as for rpgs on the whole, play oblivion, fallout 3, dragon age, mass effect 2, etc. and then tell me that current rpgs arent good.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote (madmangunner @ 25th July 2010 10:00)

So after some time i must ask are there any who deserve glory still and which games are just not worthy... Plz help i cant afford any more bad games.thx

BioShock or Oblivion. BioShock has a brilliant setting and is packed with good ideas for frights and thrills. It can get tiring, but the game is surprising if you stick with it. Oblivion is flawed but also allows for a lot of interesting innovations in your character. With a bit of imagination Oblivion can be one of the most rewarding RPGs out there, for me anyway. There are others that people favour, namely Dragon Age, Demon's Souls, Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 2.

There are too many other games that I've played and not liked. Two Worlds stands out as the game to definitely not buy, IMO. I didn't like Fable 2 either. I don't know what happened with FFXIII. I didn't like it at all.

I don't know any RPG, or game even, that's not flawed in one area or another. The only one I can think of is Chrono Trigger, but even then the game suffers from the same issue I find with FFVI, that it can't be taken seriously because it's basically a humourous cartoon until suddenly there's some sad music and something sad happens. It's like trying to make somebody really care about Daffy Duck's relationship problems. The point is that I don't know of any game that I would say isn't flawed.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 25th July 2010 17:14

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 25th July 2010 13:13)

I don't know any RPG, or game even, that's not flawed in one area or another. The only one I can think of is Chrono Trigger, but even then the game suffers from the same issue I find with FFVI, that it can't be taken seriously because it's basically a humourous cartoon until suddenly there's some sad music and something sad happens. It's like trying to make somebody really care about Daffy Duck's relationship problems. The point is that I don't know of any game that I would say isn't flawed.

Are you implying that animation cannot tell emotional stories in general? Because clearly Daffy Duck is a comedic character, and he is not meant to show emotion, but I can offer up many Disney movies that present emotional scenes. And these animated movies have less technological limitations than these 2D RPGs have. I would argue that many modern RPGs do not show emotion any better, even with better technology, nor do they create a more memorable experience. Playing through FFVII as we speak, I feel much more of an emotional attachment to the FFVI characters than I do with Cloud. FFVI doesn't bring me to tears, but it is a great storytelling experience. And I hardly expect Deus Ex to give more emotion within its story either, especially since its story is based off outlandish conspiracy theories.

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With a bit of imagination [insert game name] can be one of the most rewarding RPGs out there, for me anyway.

That's kind of what I'm trying to say. You have to let yourself into the story, and believe that those characters exist. Then, it can hit you.

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I hated how linear FFX was. There was no free-roaming and all the maps were just long single paths.

Linearity doesn't make a game bad. In fact, non-linearity can destroy the narrative thread. I think that is one of the problems with many games today. They are too focused on giving players freedom, rather than telling a good story.

But I do think there are great games. FFXII is one, and I think another that does non-linearity well, Fallout 3. That game does it right because it immerses you in the wasteland.

And I completely second sweetdude's recommendations of Bioshock and Oblivion.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I'm going to interject to say that, my hate for the game aside, I wouldn't classify bioshock as an RPG in nearly any sense. The gameplay is completely action oriented, there's not significant stat tracking as far as I know, and the game definitely doesn't fit the bill as far as what you're looking for in linearity.

Just by the nature of this board I'm guessing you're looking for JRPGs, but if the rest of the posts in the topic show you anything, it's that JRPGs have been in quite a decline lately, both in volume of North American releases and overall quality. I think the most engaging JRPG series right now is the Megami Tensei series, but as far as I know it hasn't seen any releases on next gen consoles. If you're willing to break out your old PS2, Persona 4 is one of the most oddly enjoyable RPGs I've ever played and it was only released in NA about two years ago.

If you're willing to look into more western developed RPGs, I'd say that Oblivion and the first Mass Effect are great places to start, and are games that weren't remotely possible six years ago (which says something about the trend in quality of those types of games).

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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else. Fighting... fighting was the only thing I was ever good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in." - Frank Yeager (a.k.a. Grey Fox)

Quote (FallingHeart @ 25th July 2010 14:00)

If your willing to break out your ps2

For further post no one need worry i still bust out my atari the thing is i own most older rpg's with a collection over 200 and counting the thing is i want something new that is just a all around good game in the rpg genre. Any older rpg suggestions i like to hear if i dont have it i am more than happy to look into it. Newer rpg what im really looking for though. btw im gonna buy dragon age today thanks for the tip.

This post has been edited by madmangunner on 25th July 2010 19:24

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Why is it that rpg's are now a dying breed?

Quote (BlitzSage @ 25th July 2010 13:18)

Are you implying that animation cannot tell emotional stories in general?

Not sure where sweetdude got his impressions, but to some degree, I think I can see where he might be coming from. Can't think of anything in CT off the top of my head (been years since I've played that game), but FFVI went as far as having the characters fight in two series of battles while freefalling to what should have been their certain deaths. How's that not cartoonish : / ? Pretty extreme example, sure, but there are lots of little animation-related things in games of that era that, sadly, gave that cartoonish impression. Has a lot to do with their technological capacity of the time, I guess, and it's something I don't really see in modern games (unless, of course, it's actually intended).

Personally, I can't praise the Baldur's Gate PC series enough, but I don't know how you feel about PC gaming. Dragon Age and the first Mass Effect, at least are definitely great fun, though (ME2's gameplay seemed a little too simplified to me).

This post has been edited by Galsic on 25th July 2010 20:07

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Console RPG Cliches

Quote (BlitzSage)

Are you implying that animation cannot tell emotional stories in general?

...

Playing through FFVII as we speak, I feel much more of an emotional attachment to the FFVI characters than I do with Cloud. FFVI doesn't bring me to tears, but it is a great storytelling experience. And I hardly expect Deus Ex to give more emotion within its story either, especially since its story is based off outlandish conspiracy theories.

No, I think animation can tell emotional stories. Theatrical characters don't do it for me. If you went to a pantomime, cry "he's behind you" about fifteen times, then later a character watches his family die by poison, it's just silly. Consistency is something that has developed favourably in the last few console generations. FFIX managed the balance because it was careful and paced, despite being theatrical and moving, or at least thought-provoking, in places.

With FFVII, I'd imagine you take Cloud and Aeris seriously, which I couldn't say about Cyan or Gau. The strength of VI and CT is not in its emotional manipulation but in its fun.

And Deus Ex, well, that has to be played to be understood. Ma pauvre mere. Without spoiling anything I'll just say it maintains a brilliant and almost frightening sense of despair and disparity. The blurb about conspiracies doesn't really offer any idea of what's in that game. As an example, at one point you play through a huge French mansion of an important woman to find information of one of her friends, who's in hiding and you need to contact. The woman has been killed, but her daughter, who ran away from home, comes with you to help you look. She comments on the house and her mother as you go through the house searching for any secrets. It's amazing how real it all feels, and how sad it is.

Quote (BlitzSage)

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With a bit of imagination [insert game name] can be one of the most rewarding RPGs out there, for me anyway.

That's kind of what I'm trying to say. You have to let yourself into the story, and believe that those characters exist. Then, it can hit you.

I see what you mean, but I didn't mean that in the quote. I meant that the character customisation is open to a bit of imaginative tweaking.

Quote (FallingHeart)

I'm going to interject to say that, my hate for the game aside, I wouldn't classify bioshock as an RPG in nearly any sense. The gameplay is completely action oriented, there's not significant stat tracking as far as I know, and the game definitely doesn't fit the bill as far as what you're looking for in linearity.

Maybe. If you're going to look into it, madmangunner, I would play a demo first to see if it's what you're looking for. It's very difficult to go down the route of 'what is an RPG'.

Quote (madmangunner)

Any older rpg suggestions i like to hear if i dont have it i am more than happy to look into it. Newer rpg what im really looking for though. btw im gonna buy dragon age today thanks for the tip.

If you're thinking older games and you want an RPG that isn't like anything you've played in terms of gameplay, story and setting, then get Deus Ex fired up. BlitzSage and I mentioned it earlier and I assure you it's worth trying out at least. My favourite game of all time.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

I always thought dues ex was a shooter. what console is that one on id love to give it a try. any rpgs that are listed i will try to hunt down today. since its payday.. does anyone by chance know when parasite eve the 3rd birthday will launch. And how the gameplay will be?

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Why is it that rpg's are now a dying breed?

Quote (sweetdude @ 25th July 2010 18:00)

With FFVII, I'd imagine you take Cloud and Aeris seriously, which I couldn't say about Cyan or Gau. The strength of VI and CT is not in its emotional manipulation but in its fun.

Not really, and here's why. Cloud and Aeris are having what is supposed to be an emotional moment on top of that old slide, just like Cyan is at the train station.

You might say, Aeris and Cloud are to be taken a bit more seriously, but I don't believe that to be the case. Why? Because Cloud and Aeris's sprites are small and the camera is zoomed out. You may find it silly, but honestly, I get more emotion out of Cyan lowering his head than watching them have an emotional moment from a mile away.

The problem is, and I think this is where we have our disagreement, as I watch them I am aware that they are attempting to create an emotional scene, but there are technical limitations, even moreso than in FFVI.

I don't think there's a big difference in our viewpoints, I just think we're playing with different mindset. I'm suspending my disbelief and buying into it, and really, that's why I'm on this website in the first place.

But anyways, I guess sweetdude will know better than I if it is an RPG or not.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (madmangunner @ 25th July 2010 23:22)

I always thought dues ex was a shooter. what console is that one on id love to give it a try.

PS2 or PC. PC is better, but not by much.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

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Linearity doesn't make a game bad. In fact, non-linearity can destroy the narrative thread. I think that is one of the problems with many games today. They are too focused on giving players freedom, rather than telling a good story.

I agree with Blitzsage. In the end, I don't think linearity makes all that much of a difference in how good a game is. I like a good linear game, but I also like a good open world game. The part that does matter is how the game is done: does it have an interesting story with compelling characters and fun battles. FFX is my favorite videogame ever (pretty linear), and yet I also enjoy the open-worldedness of earlier FF's.

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With FFVII, I'd imagine you take Cloud and Aeris seriously, which I couldn't say about Cyan or Gau. The strength of VI and CT is not in its emotional manipulation but in its fun.

Now I disagree here. There was definitely a lighter atmosphere in some of the earlier games, but FFVI (for example) certainly had its share of emotion. I certainly felt emotion for Cyan: he is driven mad with sorrow when his family is poisoned. He can't get past their deaths, and tries to run after them and catch them on the Phantom Train, but he is unable to. No matter how hard he trains, he could never catch that train. He tries to ease another's pain, to prevent them from the same feeling by writing all those letters to the girl whose lover was dead. Finally, he discovers that the only way he can make a difference is not by looking to the past but by preventing more evil from consuming the future.

How about Terra and her question of love? Or Shadow and the dark past he tries to escape? I definitely think that earlier games had the capacity for emotional development, FFVI especially.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 25th July 2010 14:18)

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I hated how linear FFX was. There was no free-roaming and all the maps were just long single paths.

Linearity doesn't make a game bad. In fact, non-linearity can destroy the narrative thread. I think that is one of the problems with many games today. They are too focused on giving players freedom, rather than telling a good story.

Linearity may not make all games bad, but it takes the role-playing out of the role-playing game. FFVI and Chrono Trigger both had amazing stories but were not linear. They provided the player with the option to control where the characters could go and what they could do. You could affect different things which might change things later in the game. FFX, on the other hand, felt like watching a long movie with a mediocre plot. At least to me it did.

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Wha? Thanks to me?

Quote (ElPanachino @ 26th July 2010 01:45)

Linearity may not make all games bad, but it takes the role-playing out of the role-playing game. FFVI and Chrono Trigger both had amazing stories but were not linear.

Well, part one of FFVI was linear, and part two was non-linear. Point being that it really depends on how the game uses it. For me, I enjoyed bother parts of FFVI. They did a great job with linear and non-linear styles. In other words, if a game doesn't use it well, then it is easy to say that the game is too linear, and I will probably agree.

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How about Terra and her question of love? Or Shadow and the dark past he tries to escape? I definitely think that earlier games had the capacity for emotional development, FFVI especially.

I don't think it's wrong for sweetdude to not "get into" the stories, because they are sprites. But these games are telling (or trying to tell) epic stories. So, if you do let yourself get into it, then you can see that they tell great fantasy stories. They're not completely tear jerkers, but they are great stories in the same vein as the classic fantasy tales.

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Praise Be To Helix!

I always myself thought that:

A game can combine a good amount of gameplay and good story.

I think american rpgs do this very very well.

My main issue,is not as much linearity as it is too many cutscenes.

Even if you are trying to tell a story,you still want it to be a game,because face it,who wants to spend 70 hours in cutscenes and 30 hours in gameplay?

ff8 was nothing but cutscene after cutscene,and when you did play,it was farming spells to junction,which gets really old fast.

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I don't think it's wrong for sweetdude to not "get into" the stories, because they are sprites. But these games are telling (or trying to tell) epic stories. So, if you do let yourself get into it, then you can see that they tell great fantasy stories. They're not completely tear jerkers, but they are great stories in the same vein as the classic fantasy tales.

blitzsage

Blitzsage:I actually thought that gau's story was pretty touching and cyans.

The thing that i like about ff6,is that while its pretty sad,it isn't over melodramatic.

I found honestly that some parts of ff7 were a bit on the side of overmelodramatic,and metal gear solid 4 which has nothing to do was over melodramatic.

I think what affects this,is when you force a character people don't care about and try to make you the player fall for this character,but because its so forced,it ends up failing.

it has to come out natural to make a profound effect,and some games come out as trying too hard.



This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 26th July 2010 13:07

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 26th July 2010 07:31)

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How about Terra and her question of love? Or Shadow and the dark past he tries to escape? I definitely think that earlier games had the capacity for emotional development, FFVI especially.

I don't think it's wrong for sweetdude to not "get into" the stories, because they are sprites. But these games are telling (or trying to tell) epic stories. So, if you do let yourself get into it, then you can see that they tell great fantasy stories. They're not completely tear jerkers, but they are great stories in the same vein as the classic fantasy tales.

Look at it this way. You're playing through Pokemon and you go to a town and you see a trainer with his dead child, poisoned by an attack from one of Team Rocket's Pokemon. He then joins your happy-go-lucky team. What the f is that? That's basically how I felt when I played through FFVI. Remember, after witnessing the poisoning the team jump into Magitek armour and hilariously escape the base with more funny quotes and slapstick humour. It's just weird. It's nothing to do with graphics or whatever, it's just the way FFVI is made. I'm not taking anything away from the game, my point is that there isn't any game I know which isn't flawed in some way, and also that I think consistency has improved in recent times.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 26th July 2010 09:43)

That's basically how I felt when I played through FFVI. Remember, after witnessing the poisoning the team jump into Magitek armour and hilariously escape the base with more funny quotes and slapstick humour. It's just weird. It's nothing to do with graphics or whatever, it's just the way FFVI is made.

I don't get what you're saying there. You mean the part where Cyan angrily fights and entire base to get revenge, and they have to escape on machines that he's never used before?

I mean, that's quite a difference in our opinions of the game. I see and action scene where Cyan and Sabin have to flee for their lives... and you apparently hear this...

While there is some slapstick humor, there are scenes that are clearly not meant to be that way, no matter how you perceive them. I've always thought that FFVI did a good job of balancing out the humor and the dramatic scenes, even having scenes that have elements of both, yet not mixing them. In turn, there are layers to the story, which despite the 2D sprites and fantasy style, makes the story more realistic. These characters can be humorous and they can be serious. That's why I think the storytelling can be viewed as possibly even better than the newer FFs.

But it's your experience, not mine. And for some games, I agree. Chrono Trigger, for instance, is one that I agree with you. I don't think they did a great job with that story, so it does feel noticeable when they want you to feel emotion. Then again, CT is meant to be an adventurous, comic book style story, while FFVI is supposed to be an operatic epic.

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Praise Be To Helix!

ive gotta agree with sweetdude on this one. the "comedic" scenes with cyan, gau, and ultros in particular completely kill the pacing of the game. final fantasy isnt supposed to be funny, its supposed to be a story illustrating the hardship average people go through in order to save the [insert homeland here] they love... it isnt about shouting mr thou and jumping around laughing together when more important things could be done. one of the reasons i like other final fantasies far more than this one is that they are a lot more serious, take ix for example. ix deals a lot with betrayal, war, genocide, death, as well as the characters learning about their own mortality. it does have its more slapstick moments, but the scenes with vivi in them in particular are absolutely heart-wrenching (especially when fighting black waltz 3). dagger

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

losing her mother

and freya

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

finding fratley

are also especially moving, and while lockes relationship with celes/rachel and cyans hardships are sad, the overdrawn, comedic scenes in the game inhibit me from taking the game seriously. it systematically crushes the immersion every time kefka whines about sand in his boots, and every time relm threatens to paint someone's picture.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

In FF's case they are going downhill, Dragon Quest remains consistant, while RPG's

from Bethesda and Bioware continually get better. The answer to the question in

my opinion is both. Some are glory while others are failures. This is simply the

way it is right now and it means that people have to look at reviews for RPGs

before purchasing the game in order to confirm that they are getting something

decent and not a broken mess.

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Stay Free

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I don't get what you're saying there. You mean the part where Cyan angrily fights and entire base to get revenge, and they have to escape on machines that he's never used before?

I mean, that's quite a difference in our opinions of the game. I see and action scene where Cyan and Sabin have to flee for their lives... and you apparently hear this...

I was definitely getting the same feeling as Blitzsage in this portion. I don't think that that section was intended to be comic at all. At the very most, the graphic capabilities may have not exactly lent themselves to the mood at that point in the story. But even letting that shape your opinion on the scene seems like a lot is being overlooked.

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ive gotta agree with sweetdude on this one. the "comedic" scenes with cyan, gau, and ultros in particular completely kill the pacing of the game.

I think that some of the comic portions of the game were fitted in in order to prevent the mood from getting too heavy. If these characters were real, I can't imagine that they'd be able to survive the ordeal without a little bit of humor or enjoyment or relaxation along the way.

There were certainly comic elements in FFVI, and I would agree that there were more in this game than in many other FF's. But I think that some humor on the part of a character in a videogame shows, if anything, a bit of realism. A bit of humor on the part of the developers (yes, that's ultros) every now and then just helps to keep the atmosphere from getting too heavy, and without interferring with the rest of the story.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Quote (Death Penalty @ 27th July 2010 00:07)

Quote

I don't get what you're saying there. You mean the part where Cyan angrily fights and entire base to get revenge, and they have to escape on machines that he's never used before?

I mean, that's quite a difference in our opinions of the game. I see and action scene where Cyan and Sabin have to flee for their lives... and you apparently hear this...

I was definitely getting the same feeling as Blitzsage in this portion. I don't think that that section was intended to be comic at all. At the very most, the graphic capabilities may have not exactly lent themselves to the mood at that point in the story. But even letting that shape your opinion on the scene seems like a lot is being overlooked.

I must concur with these two on this point. The Doma poisoning scene I have always thought of as one of the most memorable in FF history. In fact, given the limitations of sprite graphics, the fact that FF6 can powerfully portray a large range of emotions is amazing. FFX, on the other hand, had incredibly detailed graphics and voice acting, yet I felt no attachment to the main characters and felt no chemistry in their love story.

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Wha? Thanks to me?

Quote (Death Penalty @ 26th July 2010 23:07)

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ive gotta agree with sweetdude on this one. the "comedic" scenes with cyan, gau, and ultros in particular completely kill the pacing of the game.

I think that some of the comic portions of the game were fitted in in order to prevent the mood from getting too heavy. If these characters were real, I can't imagine that they'd be able to survive the ordeal without a little bit of humor or enjoyment or relaxation along the way.

There were certainly comic elements in FFVI, and I would agree that there were more in this game than in many other FF's. But I think that some humor on the part of a character in a videogame shows, if anything, a bit of realism. A bit of humor on the part of the developers (yes, that's ultros) every now and then just helps to keep the atmosphere from getting too heavy, and without interferring with the rest of the story.

i do agree on this point, that humor allows humans to cope with horrific situations, but the difference between the humor in this game and the humor in...say uncharted 2 is that it doesnt break the flow of events in uncharted. the party is split up on a raft, and it would be more understandable if sabin was either panicked or depressed, but no, he teams up with some idiotic little ball of sugar instead of voicing emotion. the fact of the matter is that the emotion and humor displayed in ff vi is out of place, while in uncharted its situational and it works; it keeps the game from getting too heavy while simultaneously making the characters more believable, ill give an example. when lazaravich, a russian warlord and horrible human being confronts the party and shoots one of their friends, everyone is completely serious and they display genuine human emtion; anger, despair, and the like. drake didnt start making fun of the way lazaravich talked, as gau was so inclined to do to cyan, moments after his entire family and kingdom was murdered. the humorous parts in ff vi just dont add up, they dont make sense, and they destroy any sympathy you have for the characters hardship in an instant, completely breaking the immersion. not to say ff vi isnt good, but theres a time and a place for humor, and its very poorly executed throughout the course of the game.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

Quote (dont chocobos rule? @ 26th July 2010 19:44)

ive gotta agree with sweetdude on this one. the "comedic" scenes with cyan, gau, and ultros in particular completely kill the pacing of the game. final fantasy isnt supposed to be funny, its supposed to be a story illustrating the hardship average people go through in order to save the [insert homeland here] they love... it isnt about shouting mr thou and jumping around laughing together when more important things could be done. one of the reasons i like other final fantasies far more than this one is that they are a lot more serious, take ix for example. ix deals a lot with betrayal, war, genocide, death, as well as the characters learning about their own mortality. it does have its more slapstick moments, but the scenes with vivi in them in particular are absolutely heart-wrenching (especially when fighting black waltz 3). dagger

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

losing her mother

and freya

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

finding fratley

are also especially moving, and while lockes relationship with celes/rachel and cyans hardships are sad, the overdrawn, comedic scenes in the game inhibit me from taking the game seriously. it systematically crushes the immersion every time kefka whines about sand in his boots, and every time relm threatens to paint someone's picture.

I completely disagree with everything here. Isn't supposed to be funny? What about the three to four separate occasions in FFIV where there are scenes devoted to random women dancing for no reason, and Cecil reading smut? There has always been comedy in the series, and I would argue that FFVI does the best job at integrating it into the story. In fact, I would disagree with Death Penalty in its humor being comic relief.

Let's take a look at the Mr. Thou scene. It may appear to be comic relief, but what it does is set up Gau's character as unlearned and immature.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Which we later find to be caused by his father rejecting him after going mad, forcing him to live on his own. Also, don't forget that Gau's presence, though it may seem unnecessary, fills the void left in Cyan's life after his family is murdered.

"There's sand on my boots," sets up Kefka's character.

Cyan's slapstick scenes, set him up as a person that is wary of letting go of things, including his traditions. Thus, he almost refuses to learn technology.

Not to mention that the story also deals with betrayal, war, genocide, death, suicide, teenage pregnancy, meaning of life and love, etc.

And what you all find to be destructive to immersion, I find to be the reason for it. We are dealing with a world that is a 2D fantasy world. What do these people do? How do they have fun? What is humor to them? In the world of Uncharted 2, we know that, but not the world of FFVI.

But the designers tell us about the world through each element of the game. Songs like Spinach Rag, and scenes such as the opera scene, and even their humor, shows you what that world is like. That's some of the beauty of these older RPGs, they have quirky, seemingly out of place humor, but it works, because it sets up the scene.

I would argue that some games of this generation are missing that unique quality that makes me think I'll remember them like FFVI. Honestly, the humor that you love from Uncharted 2, sets up an obnoxious character in my opinion. And while I enjoyed FFXII, I didn't feel as strongly for them as any character in FFVI. Balthier was the only one, realy. Why? Because he actually had a sense of humor. And in my opinion, that sense of humor gave him a layer of characterization that no other character had in the game. Think about it this way. These completely dramatic characters you all are thinking about, we almost never see the side of them the way we do in FFVI. The comic scenes don't break up the drama, the comic scenes ARE the drama. Everything in the game goes into the story. Everything these characters do tells you who they are.

And in some ways, I do have to agree with madmangunner's feeling sometimes that it feels like even these good games are missing something.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 27th July 2010 07:06

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Praise Be To Helix!

When it comes to rpgs,i'd have to say that the characters are very well played out.

Even whent hey have their comic moments,they also have their serious moments.

These comedy scenes are set to show who they are and make them charismatic.
In fact,i would argue with you,that is the reason i dislike ff7.

The characters seem to be lacking charisma,they seem really bland and seem kind of out of place with eachother.

That is not to say i don't like serious character,i just think that sometimes the silent tough guy type like:Cloud is really dull.

A game is meant to be fun,its story can be really good but it will never compare to a book story.

Sure you got really good stories,but we got kids here and kids won't know the difference of a good story if you pasted it on their face.

That is not to say some people don't know a good story,but a lot of people don't,i mean look at what people play:

DOOM
Quake
etc etc and medal of honor.

And sports games like:Ferrari challenge and such.

These games are not story driven whatsoever,good graphics and gameplay are what drive it.

In essence,a great game is comining all things that make a game good in balance,and ff6 does that much better than ff7 and ff8.

It is because of that quirky humor and those scenes that we grow to love the characters,and while they are humorous,they also have their serious parts.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I still find myself enjoying the older RPGs more than the newer ones. I've been more content to stick to GBA, SNES, and PS1 games with some PS2 games lately than to buy many of the new games.

Now, I won't say that ALL new games suck, because there have been some good ones. I've just been finding less these days.

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