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I was thinking,there is something in chrono trigger and old snes games that doesn't seem as strong in ff8 and in other late games.I didn't even play chrono trigger in its hey day and there is something magical about it,like the first time i played ff6 and knew this game was going to be the best ff game ever.

It is almost as if snes console captured the magic of that area because the lack of graphics and limit in sound also made them to work better around what they had.

Or perhaps i am getting old and or worn my welcome with rpgs?

Something has changed.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 26th May 2010 16:36

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I think they've lost something. The whole thing seems so much more commercial now.

I love the way that the old games actually had to use graphic style. They didn't have the technology to make it look 100% real, so each game developed its own approach. Every game had a different graphic style that helped to make it memorable.

I also miss something about the plots. I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's a different approach to it. In FFXIII, it felt like the game was so busy developing the characters that it didn't have time to give us much insight into our enemies or the world. In FFXII, the political approach and the no-one's-really-evil-we-just-have-differing-ideas stuff spoiled the old fashioned bad guy fun.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Definitely.

The last ff games were not as good as the snes ones for some reason,ff9 was better than the 2 previous games.

ff8 was probably the most ridiculous game i have ever played,wtf? 4 cds of boring game? it was too much

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

i disagree. while i did like the older games, i tend to like the newer ones better. the amount of adoration for ff vi in particular always struck me as a bit weird. i did like the game, but it just seemed too childish, too campy. the earlier games (i-vi) were great, but games like viii ( yeah i like it, sue me), ix, and xii are some of the most fun ive had with video games in my life. ff x was voted the best ps 2 game ever by a couple publications, so i dont really see how people can say the new ones arent good when they clearly are.

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

You are allowed to disagree,but i still like ff6 and ff4 more.

And it is still an opinion.

And many people would agree that ff8 is full of a lot of garbage.

4 cds for a game? give me 1 or 2 cds compact and take away the other 2 games and you have a game that is at least half decent.



This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 26th May 2010 21:08

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Heh, yeah I could go on and on...everyone who I loved and respected in Square doesn't work there anymore, and have mostly been replaced by corporate stooges... IX was the last game I really loved, and X was the last one that felt like a Final Fantasy to me...coincidentally, I'd say I stopped being interested right after the merger, dunno if that had something to do with it, but every game I've played by them since has been mediocre, not terrible, but I should be rooting for more than 'not terrible' when it comes to a company that so shaped my childhood...

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

Quote (trismegistus @ 26th May 2010 19:57)

Heh, yeah I could go on and on...everyone who I loved and respected in Square doesn't work there anymore, and have mostly been replaced by corporate stooges... IX was the last game I really loved, and X was the last one that felt like a Final Fantasy to me...coincidentally, I'd say I stopped being interested right after the merger, dunno if that had something to do with it, but every game I've played by them since has been mediocre, not terrible, but I should be rooting for more than 'not terrible' when it comes to a company that so shaped my childhood...

I felt the same way.

Last game i beat was ff9.

I did like FFX in some ways,but others disappointed me.

For one:The game seemed rather linear and i didn't feel too compelled to actually beat the game.

FF8 is the second game that i wasn't compelled and i tried a lot of times but i couldn't get into it.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote

The last ff games were not as good as the snes ones for some reason,ff9 was better than the 2 previous games.

ff8 was probably the most ridiculous game i have ever played,wtf? 4 cds of boring game? it was too much

While I definitely agree that there was a change in atmosphere from the pre-FFVI games (including VI of course) to the post-FFVI games, I still liked VII, VIII, IX and X a lot. They were different, but a good kind of different in my eyes, and one that didn't stray too far from their predecessors in feel.

Quote

Heh, yeah I could go on and on...everyone who I loved and respected in Square doesn't work there anymore, and have mostly been replaced by corporate stooges...

Versus has quite a few people working on it that were in on VII, VIII and IX though. Fingers crossed? Though the idea of Nomura at the helm worries me some.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Quote (Death Penalty @ 26th May 2010 17:13)

While I definitely agree that there was a change in atmosphere from the pre-FFVI games (including VI of course) to the post-FFVI games, I still liked VII, VIII, IX and X a lot. They were different, but a good kind of different in my eyes, and one that didn't stray too far from their predecessors in feel.

Quote

Heh, yeah I could go on and on...everyone who I loved and respected in Square doesn't work there anymore, and have mostly been replaced by corporate stooges...

Versus has quite a few people working on it that were in on VII, VIII and IX though. Fingers crossed? Though the idea of Nomura at the helm worries me some.

I didn't mean to sound like I was anti FFVII or VIII either. It's the opinion of this author, whose mind is only slightly deranged from years of video games, that Square had a solid 10 years, 1991-2001, where they did nearly no wrong. VIII and X might not be the best games around, but they're still very enjoyable games, and still have that mysterious 'something' that made the games click that the newer entries don't seem to have. And I don't have anything against Nomura or Kawazu or any of the company men who have been put in charge, per se, except that they're no Sakaguchi or Matsuno.

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"If art doesn't risk upsetting expectations and challenging its audience, it can only stagnate."

It feels like the series got to FFX then stopped being something that resembles a typical Final Fantasy. This isn't a bad thing by any means, it's just that the series deserved 10 games and then it came to its natural end. Now it's like they're trying different formats until another workable formula is made. Of all the first 10 games I think FFIX is the best at being what a FF is. I'm not going to try and work out exactly why but essentially it's just the themes, music, characters, battles etc are traditional FF but put together in a way that is a unique game and does it better, overall, than all the others.

So if you're looking for that magic, or spark, meaning the original ideas and format stretched even further than before, then I don't think we're going to see it again. I must admit I like where the series has found itself at the moment. It appreciates the old games, and we all still do, some more than others, and we can expect remakes to freshen them up a bit. But there's no point in trudging through the old stuff trying to put together another one. I'm happy that they're trying to make a new type of game, but they've still got further to go. I enjoyed FFXII a lot, however that's only parts of the game, it wasn't all brilliant, and I know that it wasn't to everyone's taste, so they don't need to try and make another one in the same mould. Then we see FFXIII is an entirely different type of game, and I think it's good to try a more action-based angle, even if I didn't like it much. Cynically, I'd say the new angles were in order to pull in more players, actually I think SE admitted that on a few occasions, and that's not a good thing from a fan's perspective. Nevertheless I think FFXII shows that they're still willing to make more risky titles.

If you say spark meaning a new experience thought up in an instant, and by extension all good new ideas, then I don't think they've lost that at all. FFXIII had a bit of potential but ultimately ended up being for the punters more than the fans. No spark, agreed. On the other hand with FFXII they built a really interesting world packed with good ideas for battles and monsters. If anything like FFXII comes out again I'll be happy. Sure, a lot of FFXII was textbook bland RPG and not very inspiring, but looking deeper it has a lot of spark. XIV could surprise us all. Looking at the world they've already packed in a really impressive set of scenery. Compared with FFXIII the landscapes look a lot more interesting. It remains to be seen as to whether the gameplay delivers, and whether we have to put up with some mental character design -- actually I think there are already some mental character designs -- but regardless there's a lot of potential for fresh new ideas in an MMO. After FFXIII I think there's been a call for a less typical game, based on the criticism SE have responded to.

In short, I'd say don't worry too much about the series losing it's spark, and even if it does disappear, there are all the old games available to play anyway and masses of other good RPGs out there.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

I've never played any of the games after FF6, so I'm extremely biased when I say I agree with you that something is missing. Whether it's too little or too much character development, plot or lack of plot, or something else in the later games---it does seem, from what I've seen, like there is something missing. Plus, I miss the chibi pixel sprites. So cute! ;-)

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You can't have sunshine without rain, so let the rain fall.

The thing about ff8 is:Some games are way too based on video clips and cutscene and are not enough like video games.

One thing i like in videogames,is that games are still videogames and not movies.FF8 is not the case and neither is FFX and later ones.

I feel as if i am moving more and more into american rpgs that have less video and cutscenes and more game play.

I do like some cut scenes,but they bore me to death when they are prolonged for longer than they should be.One example of games that have videos that should be cut and shortened,is final fantasy 8.Why do we need 4 disks off nonsense? Other games can give you all that info in less cutscenes and be a lot less boring.

When movies are 2-3 hours long and filled with pointless scenes that add little to nothing to the movie,you yawn in boredom and wish you could fast forward,it is also one of the reasons that you have people who edit the movie to make it bearable.

Some games i admit that are newer have a better way of actually telling the story.
I think final fantasy X has something that ff6 doesn't have,and you can tell by the way a person carries his voice in what mood he is in and how he may feel about a certain situation.Point is,if you use your tools correctly,even with a lot of technology should be able to make a game of superior quality.If you abuse certain aspects but neglect others in usage,your game will fall short to people's expectations.There was something about the story of FFX that i actually liked more than ff9's story and ff7's story,i thought that it seemed to revolve less around 2 people,and involve the rest of the team a bit more.I also thought that some of the music was very nice in FFX.

My criticism about ff9,is that at moments the story seems rather childish.Part of the fault is zidane's fault since he does act a bit immature,and the other is eiko who is a kid anyways.The story also has that quality that seems like it would attract young teens,just like ff7 and ff8 are made to attract young teens who are in their rebellious age.

But most games are generally directed at kids anyways because it is mostly for kids or young adults,i don't know too many people in their 40's or 50's who play final fantasy series or saga frontier or anything like that.

The difference,is that lately companies have been trying to make more adult oriented themes for young adults who are 18+ or even 21+,this is a good thing too,because pokemon and other games like it might not attract them so much.I admit that i used to not mind as much games that were for children when i was a lot younger,but now it seems a bit childish and doesn't really suit my tastes as much anymore.



This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 27th May 2010 16:49

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Okay, just to balance things out a bit, I'll admit my deepest, darkest secrets: I actually don't mind cutscene after cutscene after cutscene after cutscene after cutscene. Not in Final Fantasies, at least. I was hooked on X's plot from the start, and XIII had me hooked from the moment Lightning said "Good for them." I admit it. I liked Vanille and Hope. I didn't think Yuna needed to be on Zoloft. I enjoyed the flash-over-the-topness of Dissidia. I think FFIX is far superior to say, numbers IV or VI. I don't think linearity is a bad thing. I think VII's only outstanding aspects are its story and One-Winged-Angel. I already told you guys I'm not a fan of Dancing Mad.

And my most treacherous reveal?

I didn't like Chrono Trigger's plot. I HATED it.

...

Feel free to tear me limb from limb now.

This post has been edited by Smash Genesis on 27th May 2010 21:20

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"When we think there's no hope left, we keep looking until we find some!" - Claire Farron

Quote (Smash Genesis @ 27th May 2010 21:20)

Okay, just to balance things out a bit, I'll admit my deepest, darkest secrets: I actually don't mind cutscene after cutscene after cutscene after cutscene after cutscene. Not in Final Fantasies, at least. I was hooked on X's plot from the start, and XIII had me hooked from the moment Lightning said "Good for them." I admit it. I liked Vanille and Hope. I didn't think Yuna needed to be on Zoloft. I enjoyed the flash-over-the-topness of Dissidia. I think FFIX is far superior to say, numbers IV or VI. I don't think linearity is a bad thing. I think VII's only outstanding aspects are its story and One-Winged-Angel. I already told you guys I'm not a fan of Dancing Mad.

And my most treacherous reveal?

I didn't like Chrono Trigger's plot. I HATED it.

...

Feel free to tear me limb from limb now.

You are allowed,but i still think ff6 is far superior and outranks ff7 and ff8.

In fact,i think ff6 still outranks ff9 as well.

But i still think that ff9 is a lot better than ff7 and ff8 which are probably the 2 most overrated in the series itself.

So even then,ff9 in my opinion would still be in my top 3 favorite list along with 4 and if i had to say in order:

FF6
FF4
FF9
FF5
FFX

I don't think ff7 belongs in top 5,maybe top 10 best final fantasies but definitely not top 10.

In music wise,ff4 ff6 and ff9 also have my favorite pieces of music.

funny,i always seem to go for more fantasy and less sci fi in the ff series,i guess i am less futuristic and more into fantasy.

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote

Okay, just to balance things out a bit, I'll admit my deepest, darkest secrets: I actually don't mind cutscene after cutscene after cutscene after cutscene after cutscene.

I love it, so long as it's done right. If the cutscenes are good (emotional or action-packed when required) and don't overstay their welcome (ex. Xenosaga...). My favorite part of a game is the story, and I think a good cinematic can be one of the best tools towards developing the player's understanding of the characters and plotline.

Important anecdote: good graphics does not mean a good cutscene. And good cutscenes don't really make or break a game: they can add a lot to a good game, but bad ones won't spoil a good game just as good ones won't save an otherwise bad game.

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Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

I completely disagree with this topic. FFVIII is not only my favourite FF game, but my second favourite videogame of all time. I loved X , XII, and XIII. X-2 was a fun game, although I found the atmosphere too silly at times.

I really don't mind linearity and cutscenes. I was surprised that I didn't miss having towns in XIII (I'm the type of person who wastes hours talking to npcs even if there is no point), the game was still really fun without them.

Of course, my opinions reflect my own personal biases. I started with VIII, and in my experiences people tend to hold their first FF game (or even just the generation their first came from) in higher regard then the others. Maybe people are just easier to please when they are younger, or when they don't have much experience with a genre and don't have many games to compare a game they are playing to.

Of course those are just generalizations, and not everyone acts like that, but generally people I've seen that love the SNES games the best started the series there and people that love the PS1 games the best started there.

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FF games completed: I (psp), II (psp), III (DS), IV (psp), V (GBA), VI (GBA), VII, VIII, IX, X, XI: Nations-Rhapsodies of Vana'diel, XII, XIII, XIV, XV.
Spin-offs: FFIV: Interlude & The After Years, Crisis Core: FFVII, X-2, XIII-2, Lightning Returns, Type-0 HD, Dissidia, Dissidia 012, and Tactics (original & WotL).
Enjoyed them all.

There's something about the SNES Final Fantasy games that just make them wonderful. Final Fantasy VIII was too much like a movie you don't even have to level up and Final Fantasy X was just a case of bad drama and was too linear.
Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy IX in a opinion are the only good ones of the modern generation. Final Fantasy XIII was alright to the hype of a brand new game were gone and slowly started to notice the games faults, again like Final Fantasy VIII it just feel like was playing a movie and not really much of a game.

Think SE needs to go back and focus on gameplay and story rather than graphics. Final Fantasy IV was magical because the game was a challenge and the story was overally detailed compared to other games back in 91'. Final Fantasy V has a epic battle class system, summons to collect and hidden weapons. Final Fantasy VI basic graphics but it's considered one of the best.
Again Final Fantasy VII looks like lego people with blocky legs but the game goes well because the Blue Magic collecting, theme park, massive story plot and motorbiking.
Final Fantasy IX brought back the feeling of the old classic games but it still has plenty of gameplay and a interesting story to keep it going.

However Final Fantasy XII had tons of gameplay however most fans disliked it because it didn't have the emotion or feeling of a Final Fantasy game, however think it didn't so well because it was missing a important part of the math- good storyline.With Final Fantasy 15 is hoping that SE notices that players WANT to control the airship, that they WANT heaps of mini- games and they don't want a game chock full of FMV clips and storyline with cheesy quotes and characters acting dramatic or trying to look realistic.

The modern Final Fantasy games don't have that certain spark anymore because Square Enix are only just caring about the graphics rather than the story or the format of the game. SE are trying to make the games look 'cool' rather than seeing what made their games poplaur in the first place.

Think SE needs to learn that

Pretty graphics doesn't equal = Brilliant game
But rather

Gameplay + Storyline ( with good music and characters to add ) = Brilliant game.

This post has been edited by ZidaneTribal on 11th June 2010 08:05

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Currently playing Chrono Trigger !!
Currently looking forward to Don't Know.

I don't think the spark is necessarily gone, but I am talking about video games in general. I have really enjoyed games like Fallout 3, Portal, and in the Final Fantasy series, FFXII. But the retro style does have a magic about it that is largely missed in today's games. Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Super Metroid, Link to the Past, these games all have a unique feel to them. They are bright and colorful on one hand, but their use of the limited graphics is in a way more artistic. The beautiful designs of Chrono Trigger's, the cinematic feel of Super Metroid, and FFVI's beautifully crafted storyline are all examples.

The change in atmosphere, as Death Penalty describes it, is largely due to changes in technology. These games were forced to work with less. In some cases, I do believe that games have evolved for the better, but the limitations I believe made these games special and memorable. I don't think of these games as retro anymore, I think of them as classics. The reason that it feels as if the spark is gone is that it is difficult to make a classic, but it is being done.

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Praise Be To Helix!

RPGs really have changed.

FFXIII may be THE best looking game I have ever seen or played.
However as far as the game as an RPG, I would much prefer most any older, such as 9 for example.

Do not get me wrong though, FFXIII was great really.
Only a decent struggle during later bosses.