Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

We all know the stereotype of misogyny, racism, and homophobia that people attribute to any online gaming with voice or text chat, I'm sure. I have to wonder, though, are there a lot of you who play online that actually experience it frequently? I really don't, just every couple weeks or so, but I kind of think that maybe it's due to the fact that I most of the games I play online are either solely with people I know already, or are played on PC over Steam so that on most servers, you can only voice chat with your own team.

I started to wonder about it again because I heard a story on NPR about it the other night, of all places (You can hear the story here: http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaP...347&m=123979325 ). Has this truly become so widespread as to make national news on a current news and topics program? Or is this just another case where the media is blowing something way out of proportion? Or, is it just a case where it's not omnipresent, but any presence of such things should be totally unacceptable?

Note: I realize some folks might want to give full transcripts of experiences they've had in here, but please try to keep it as clean as we keep the forums in general.

--------------------

"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

I've always wondered whether certain games have filters or some kind of moderation to prevent that. If they don't, they need it.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Unfortunately those filters don't really exist, and it doesn't really seem to be limited to the type of game.

I've been flamed/have heard flaming take place in anything from Modern Warfare 2, Halo 3 or others of that obvious nature to Civilization 4, Diablo II and whatnot.

I think it's largely due to the fact that you'll never see the person you're insulting - I'm betting 80% of the flamers aren't like that to someone's face, whether they lack the balls or are normally just a nice person but take out their rage on faceless nobodies online.

I think it may be half worth the media's notice, half exaggeration - I'm sure there're kids who've been stung by someone's unnecessary words, who's parents have expressed this displeasure on a more public front or somesuch, but whether it's widespread enough to warrant full news coverage is another thing. Filters would be nice, and is entirely possible with text, but I think in real-time voice chat it isn't yet possible, so for the time being, we're stuck with the jerks that drop f-bombs, n-bombs, newb, homo, etc. etc. until something comes out to that effect, or they start filtering people into seperate servers that are "safer" and moderated. I would imagine, though, most companies view moderation of their games and such as a waste of manpower - I mean, how many matches of online MW2 play are consistently going on across the three platforms? That's a lot to ask for to be covered.

--------------------

Games on the Go
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy: Four Warriors of Light
Baldur's Gate

Too much to play, so little time!

Greg

I'd never really played an online game with voice chat before until I got into Uncharted 2. There is a moderate amount of racist, homophobic, or just plain obscene chatter in a lot of matches. I think it's just due to the anonymity being in the game world (like being on the internet - people are much quicker to attack or belittle someone than they would be in "real life").

Some players no doubt do it just for the attention, just to "troll" the game. A player named "itsallwhite" that shouted racial slurs through the entire match, comes to mind.

Mostly though it seems to be the "cool" way to talk trash. You're not talking trash unless you swear, evidently.

Personally, if I were a parent I wouldn't want my teenager playing a game where I knew they'd be hearing that sort of stuff (not that they wouldn't pick it up elsewhere, but still...), but then I wonder if parents even know it's going on... I bet kids hit "Mute All" when their parents are around, and only join in the obscenities when they aren't around.

Ranger

i've known that sort of attitude

In everquest i even had a pic of a guy in general chat insulting my mom without actually knowing her and some people even provoke others.

One thing i hate being called is noob wich is rude and offensive but then they say:no no its not offensive bla bla bla but it is

And in forums accuse people of things like training ksing and ninja looting.

People are getting meaner and uh well catching on that its easy to insult someone through the net without repercussions

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 25th February 2010 19:44

--------------------

We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 25th February 2010 14:43)

Ranger

i've known that sort of attitude

In everquest i even had a pic of a guy in general chat insulting my mom without actually knowing her and some people even provoke others.

One thing i hate being called is noob wich is rude and offensive but then they say:no no its not offensive bla bla bla but it is

And in forums accuse people of things like training ksing and ninja looting.

People are getting meaner and uh well catching on that its easy to insult someone through the net without repercussions

Besides the anonymity, I think people are doing it because they think it's funny. I know I'll do stupid things in a game just to mess around, knowing that other people watching me are going "What in god's name is wrong with that guy?"

I.E spinning in circles, continously knifing chicken cages in MW:2, following people around in TF2 and shouting "need a dispenser here", etc.

I don't do the verbal abuse because it's honestly that not amusing, and not to mention everyone else does it...

Although some people, because they're doing poorly, are just really pissed off at individuals and start berrating them with insults. Some of it certainly arises from frustration since the adrenaline is pumping already. Similar to how in sports, people will do stupid things (I recall the soccer headbutt guy, in particular) and break out fighting since they're in competition already. Subtract any sort of physical retaliation from the mix, and verbal abuse seems almost certain.

Honestly, it would be an interesting study for a psychologist. "What makes gamers verbally abusive?" This is my psychology major side talking, however. God, that experiment would be a ***** to carry out.

--------------------

"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

A lot of the time I don't think it really is actually meant to be homophobic, sexist or racist because the terms are just so regularly flung around online without even knowing what the person is. They're just used as generally pejorative terms to push randomly the buttons of whichever individual they so chose to target, just because they know the prospective ideas are insulting. Perhaps more insulting than anything you could aim at a person directly, because a more articulate individual could really care less if they're directly insulted by some annoying little git online. They'll never have to see the person again, if they do not wish. It either brings somebody else into the manner making it all the more low of a blow or it hits their target's particular button exactly causing a blind rage.

I also agree with Locke_Cole a bit too, sometimes people think it's funny. In fact, I'd go a step farther as to say sometimes such things can be funny, if done properly in the right settings. Take a look at The Simpsons for instance; they'd not be anywhere near as successful as they are today if it wasn't for the universally politically incorrect humor. Please people, don't make the mistake of using this as an excuse though! Usually saying such things just makes the commenter look like an immature, brain dead [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] that everybody just wants to [too gruesome for T.V!] ... Yeah. Normally nobody wants to even see an idiot's stupid little fox slobber drivel, especially if they're playing a game with you, if they're trying to read online reviews of some video or even just if the crowd you're talking to isn't quite so secluded as you think. To be absolutely certain that you're being funny and not acting like a total dunce, have some tact and save it for good company at an appropriate time. If you know the people you're talking to well enough, you should know what they'll find acceptable and what they won't. Likewise, they should know when you're being seriously stupid or just playing around. If not, they'll tell you something to the effect of "Duuuuuude, what in the heck is wrong with you?" and please do your very best to reassess the situation and listen to what it is they have to say. Pretty please? With sugar and sprinkles on top? (I'm not fixing anything, am I? )

If you don't heed my warnings, I swear to goodness' sake that you'll turn into an orange, so don't blame me when you get juiced...

Also, the anonymity is quite naturally another big factor. Wether you're seriously messed up in the head, a wee bit inflammatory or just a wee bit slow to catch on, you're far less likely to care about the consequences if they're realistically few to none. I don't feel this needs much more explanation, as you guys can probably extrapolate the rest of this point for yourselves.

Oh, aside from the fact that this occurs all over the web and not just games, that is. CoN's a pretty squeaky clean community but outside of our little protective bubble it can get pretty gruesome looking out there. Part of it is that the moderators aren't as caring/meticulous, part of it is that the other sites just have such a large population that it'd be a chore for any crew to control. It's virtually everywhere on the web really. Just surf around looking at YouTube video comments if you don't believe me: I'll guarantee you'll run into it somewhere on there eventually. I just wanted to get this out there before any Jack Thompson types try to single out video games in particular again, 'cause it's just not exactly fair to single out one part of the whole. Yeah...




--------------------

Role reversal at its finest.

Aside from many derogatory statements made by the (now seemingly over-abundant) players of MMO's, its become apparent to me that the best and worst things about MMO's is the fact that they are, of course, multiplayer. People can argue that MMO's are a great way to have online friends who enjoy playing the same game (or series of games) that you do, and with that comes a great deal of common interests. But to me it seems the list of cons far outweighs the benefits.

Just this past week, I ended a six year run with FFXI, leaving behind a character that had every job at 75, (Maats Cap plus expansion jobs) and various other achievements, due mostly to the fact that people are rediculously immature. Over the years you could literally watch as the overall demeanor of the population would deteriorate. Experience parties would not last more than 30-45 minutes because people are much more impatient now, and on top of that, when you lead a party and have to invite a replacement member, you would get none short of castrated for (god forbid) asking someone to join an exp party (even though their party search "requirements" listed under their /seacom fit well within what your party required) but you had a Blue Mage in your party and they would only demand piercing type damage dealers. On top of that, dare you ever ask a Japanese person to join an exp party, responses (in the auto-translator) such as <English><No Thanks><Death><You can have this> are not an uncommon sight either.

There are other nuisances as well. Imagine camping a Notorious Monster which has a spawn rate of every 16-24 hours only to be outclaimed on it repeatedly. Or sitting dead in a campaign battle area for hours long after the battle had ended because so few people care for raising (let alone curing) anyone anymore. Even endgame linkshells that are awfully enticing, only yet to find out later that it really only benefits those who run the shell rather than those who give hours upon hours of work (and experience point loss). No, sadly, FFXI is a vestige of its former self, one that has both saddened, and made me feel better at the same time, of leaving. Until they, or someone, creates a single player port of the game, then I will give it a go once again. In the meantime, I'm going to work on making FFXI-like mods of FFVI and FFT.

A friend of mine stopped playing XBox Live because of all the nonsense talk that went on there. Even though it has a bigger community and more intense gaming, he switched to PSN simply because less people have microphones.

There are various obscenities thrown around that often involve racism, homophobia, violence or sexual innuendo. It really is amazing the level of detail that it takes on. What's even more amazing is when you hear it coming out the mouth of someone who clearly isn't even a teenager yet. I have never bought a headset and never intend to, nor do I friend anyone who I don't know personally. It's bad enough just getting random messages sent to me spilling out vulgarities just because I ran a virtual vehicle off a virtual road, or shot your virtual person in the face.

I ignore it for the most part as juvenile. I also think that there are many more people who are just interested in playing the game. I was never really into multiplayer console until I signed onto PSN. Now it's one of my favorite things to do. Trolls usually end up getting booted from games anyway. I should know, considering I act like one in GTA4 (not with the immature comments but certainly immature actions like running around and causing random explosions and general chaos...but isn't that what sandbox games are all about?).

I have not really played any online games since Halo 2 was the big thing on XBOX Live, so I can't say what it's like now. However, when I was playing online quite a bit, anti-homosexual and racist slurs were a very normal practice among many of the random gamers my friends and I ran into. Generally though, it was in a trash talking manner. I don't think people called me the '"N" word because they genuinely thought my skin is black and they hated me for that. Rather, I think it was just something that a punk teenage kid knew was taboo, an insult that went a little too far over the line in modern western culture, and so they use it because.. well, what are you going to do about it?
To answer your question; yes, I feel that the gaming community is as flaming and hateful as it's stereotyped to be. That is part of the reason I don't do any online gaming anymore. As I get older, I would rather keep to myself and enjoy my time with a single player game than deal with the nonsense that comes with online gaming, and the trash talking that typically occurs at the LAN parties I used to attend.

--------------------

Climhazzard is the timeless evil robot who runs some of the cool stuff at CoN (mostly logging chat, since there are no quizzes at the moment), all the while watching and waiting for his moment to take over the world. -Tiddles

I frequently am playing multi-player games, be they over Xbox Live, the Playstation Network or Steam, so suffice it to say that I've seen, heard and even engaged in my fair share of smack-talk. Is it just as bad as this report makes it out to be? Honestly, I'd probably say it's worse. But still no different from what you'd find anywhere else you have public forums and anonymity to hide behind.

It's more commonly bad in shooter games, but anything that is multi-player and competitive to any degree will have it's share of trolls and juvenile loudmouths.

I don't think I agree with having all of online gaming moderated, even were it possible, but let's face it, the kind of real-time moderation that would be necessary in order to stop this from being a problem is downright impossible. There are, of course, counter-measures you can take to avoid these sorts of gaming experiences, such as muting the voice-chat whenever you encounter these players, filing reports against them (every form of online gameplay requires you to have an account these days, and as such, you can be reported and banned.) or simply sticking to playing with people you know.

That all being said, I also have to call people out on the "waaaah" issue, or rather, how easily people let this get under their skin and in some cases, to ridiculous extents. Of course, no one wants to be offended by racist remarks, or have it be implied by any means that their sexual preference involves two goats, a can of tuna and a Harrison Ford cut-out under the full moon, but let's face it, being called names is not the worst thing in the world that can happen to you. Turning down the volume in most cases, will solve the problem. If it gets out of hand, absolutely, action should be taken, but let's not all turn into babies just because some mysterious 12 year old decides he wants to tell you how his sexual encounter with your mother went the night before. It feels like too many people are letting themselves get upset or offended over less and less. Yes, in an ideal world, we'd all be civil and respect each other's right to play the game they paid good money for in peace. Unfortunately, that's not the case, so just ignore it and go back to enjoying your game! Or, if you're like me, throw a molotov cocktail at the ground, start yelling "DRAGONS!" over and over again, then proceed to follow them into every game they play, repeating ad nauseum until they get fed up.

This post has been edited by Dragon_Fire on 27th February 2010 06:18

--------------------

Okay, but there was a goat!

I really only play halo 3 online and I hear people being quite foul all the time. I just mute the people that annoy me and move on. I tend to talk trash myself but I try to keep it lighthearted and funny.

Glad to see this topic here as I myself have to confront this issue everyday whenever I play Modern Warfare 2, which is the other game besides Borderlands that I play online. If you look at my location I live in Puerto Rico, born and raised in this small caribean island I have always been aware of the racism that goes against the hispanic demographic minority in the United States of America. Why is it that whenever most North Americans playing Modern Wardare 2 hear someone speaking spanish they open their mouth of ignorance of stupidity and always say the same thing... "Shut you mouth you mexican F@. GET!"... Sorry for the word as it goes against CoN policy, which I thank for making me aware of it's bad taste and offensiveness, but that's the sad truth about some americans players. It goes to show how NO progress has ever been made in the minds of some ignorant fools who were never thought that mexicans are not the ones who made spanish.

TAKEN FROM WIKIPEDIA

Spanish or Castilian (español or castellano) is a Romance language in the Ibero-Romance group that evolved from several dialects and languages in the northern fringes of the Iberian Peninsula during the 10th century and gradually spread through the Kingdom of Castile, becoming the foremost language for government and trade in the Spanish Empire.

Latin, the basic foundation of the Spanish language, was introduced to the Iberian Peninsula by Romans during the Second Punic War around 210 BC. During the 5th century, Hispania was invaded by Germanic Vandals, Suevi, Alans, and Visigoths, resulting in numerous dialects of Vulgar Latin. After the Moorish Conquest in the 8th century, Arabic became an influence in the evolution of Iberian languages including Castilian.

Modern Spanish developed with the Readjustment of the Consonants (es: Reajuste de las sibilantes del castellano) that began in 15th century. The language continues to adopt foreign words from a variety of other languages, as well as developing new words. Castilian was taken most notably to the Americas as well as to Africa and Asia Pacific with the expansion of the Spanish Empire between the fifteenth and nineteenth centuries.

There will always be racism just like there will always be drug and addiction problems, you can kill the ignorance of some, but you can't kill ignorance. The good and bad thing about the internet and online gaming is that people have the freedom to say whatever they want whenever they want, so this is something that like it or not we will have to deal with it. Don't like it, don't play, either way that what MUTE was made for.

This post has been edited by SaffireWeapon on 27th February 2010 15:52

--------------------

PS3 tag: TipoDLuffy

"...quite possibly the greatest game ever made"

Ah, that brings my mind to another happy little note. I play The Battle for Wesnoth all the time and the host of any given multiplayer game has access to a nice little command line. So when anybody's becoming a tad bit too rude all they have to do is type one of the following:

• :mute
• :kick
• :username # [to put somebody else in control of whichever side the number designates]
• :droid # [In case there are no suitable individual to take control of the side]
• :ban

For the average host, the commands only apply to the current game but there's a fairly investigative moderation team too whose powers are a bit more global if those powers need be. There's also the friends/ignore (whitelist/blacklist) system you can input usernames into, although anybody can just change usernames at any given time, so long as they're not registered.

Don't other games have something similar? If not, they probably should: it'd solve the lack of "instant gratification" so to speak. On the other hand, I suppose you'd have people abusing them if there was any sort of statistically based ranking system though.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 28th February 2010 05:15

--------------------

Role reversal at its finest.

This really gets on my nerves too. It's one thing to say some funny stuff that may be a bit more than what you'd say normally, just for good humor, but a lot of the time things people say on online games (I'm specifically thinking of Halo) are just completely past the line. Not to mention some of the things people do over the microphones are just obnoxious.

--------------------

Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!