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Possible FF13 Complaints [SPOILERS]

Posted: 20th December 2009 03:53

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Ugh, I hope these spoilers I found aren't true....
Quote (Evafan427)

So spoilers for this game have been posted online.  I won't reveal anything about the plot, but here are some things to consider:

Quote
No side-quests.  Extremely linear gameplay throughout the entire first half of the game.
The skill tree is a carbon copy of Final Fantasy 10.
Cid is a super effeminate, metrosexual manboy that looks like he stepped out of a Japanese host club.
No fanfare at end of battle.
HP recovered after EACH encounter.
Game is linear, one secret boss
Characters are cliche throughout whole game

Quote

The staff are the team who made FFX-2
The status screen shows only "attack" and "magic attack"
You can only use one character in battle


I don't mind the FF X system or the linearity, but a lot of these other elements are basically the opposite of promising. Maybe Square-Enix rushed it or something?

(I probably should have made a new topic for this, but this is where most of the complaining seems to stick together).

This post has been edited by laszlow on 20th December 2009 04:03

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Posted: 20th December 2009 05:59

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Do you know where he/she got the info from?

I hate to just knock down anything that comes up about the game but this is really unappealing. I mean, FFXII was different and I really enjoyed it, but it doesn't even sound different it just sounds dumb.

One secret boss? What.

I'm not writing it off completely, however tempting it is, but there's no way I'm buying the game until I've put in a lot of hours on loan.

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Posted: 20th December 2009 06:53

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Quote (sweetdude @ 20th December 2009 01:59)
I'm not writing it off completely, however tempting it is, but there's no way I'm buying the game until I've put in a lot of hours on loan.

I kind of am until I know where the sources came from. Something about those just seems wrong to me.

"Extremely linear gameplay" ; "manboy" ; "carbon copy" ; "cliche"

Those seem to be rather irrational opinions to me. I really think we're jumping the gun on this game, forming our opinions way too early. I mean, I'm normally nice to games anyways, especially ones in series that have produced such games as FF has.

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Posted: 20th December 2009 08:01

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If these are true, I'm not expecting stellar gameplay. I'm expecting frustration, because that does not sound very interesting to me at all. Only one character in battle? I looked into the Paradigm Shift thing it's meant to use, and I read it as : "you've got two or more computer-controlled idiots there to ruin everything with you able to give only basic orders."

It sounds reliant entirely on plot as a driving force and by the Emperor I don't think that's going to work. What we hear is of a fairly basic yawn-worthy storyline and now we're told that we have a stripped-down battle system. To top it off we've got claims the characters are the same old patterns.

Sounds like the acerbic tones of Leona "Banshee" Lewis may just be a sour cherry atop a rancid fairy cake. They've had four years on this and all they might produce is a polished turd? Does this game have any good news? I think it's going to be very unlucky for some.

We can live in hope that it salvages something. But I don't see it.

This post has been edited by Del S on 20th December 2009 08:07

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Posted: 20th December 2009 13:34

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With each increasing bit of news about Square's plans that I hear, I feel SilverLance was really onto something with his theory that the Final Fantasy series is really only Final Fantasy in name anymore, for the sake of the prebuilt momentum. The only thing that defines it anymore than that is the little nods to prior installments. With the words "No victory fanfare." I question if they might do away with these elements too.

Also, linearity is the enemy of any good R.P.G. The acronym does stand for something after all, and without a vast setting to explore there's not even the illusion we might have a choice in how to play. What makes R.P.G.s any more inclined to playing a role than any other sort of game? I feel number crunching alone is by no means a part of it, unless you're playing the role of a calculator or something of the like.

Not that I'd be looking forward to any new installments beyond the ones I've already played; VIII kinda wrangled out my interest and I don't have whatever system you'd need to play the most current ones. It's just a thought.

This post has been edited by Tonepoet on 20th December 2009 13:40

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Posted: 20th December 2009 14:40

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Okay, you guys really need to calm down and stop blowing a fuse over every little thing about this game that comes out. I mean, the backlash from the Leona Lewis announcement just over exposed how childish and fanboyish some of us can be. This is starting to become ridiculous.

The whole 'one playable character' thing has basically always been that way. It could be argued that you never really play a character in Final Fantasy anyway since you assume the role of observant deity from a distant third person perspective. Not to mention that it was the same way in 12. You had the OPTION of computer or man control, and it will probably be the same here.

As far as this being a 'linear' game, well, unless you are playing a tabletop RPG, the story is going to be...wait for it...linear. 'Sidequests' are just additional battle scenes or momentary diversions that enable a player to get extra gear, and nine times out of ten, you NEED that gear to stand a fighting a chance against the final boss. Doesn't sound very optional to me.

No fanfare? Sucks, but if you want to play it you'll get over it. You all act like fanfare existed for the entire series. Well, it didn't. Last I checked that particular bit of music didn't show up until FF7 or so, and that game, well, nostalgia goggles taken off, is not a very good one.

Basically, how about we stop foaming at the mouths about rumor and supposition, and wait until we actually see the game in action before passing judgment.


Edit
Okay so I did some research and discovered a website Here that reveals a little bit more information. And judging from the trailers I have seen, and my ability to infer meaning from them, I can pretty much debunk the 'one player only' nonsense. There are multiple party scenes in the trailer, as well as some that highlight a single character. Anyway, that's just my little addendum. My previous opinions still stand.


This post has been edited by Nytecrawla on 20th December 2009 14:53

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Posted: 20th December 2009 16:39

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Quote (Nytecrawla @ 20th December 2009 15:40)
Edit
Okay so I did some research and discovered a website Here that reveals a little bit more information. And judging from the trailers I have seen, and my ability to infer meaning from them, I can pretty much debunk the 'one player only' nonsense. There are multiple party scenes in the trailer, as well as some that highlight a single character.  Anyway, that's just my little addendum. My previous opinions still stand.

I've heard that the system used means you control a single lead character in battle, and that the other two are effectively computer-controlled and that they cannot be commanded by you at all. Now, maybe Square-Enix can make bots who won't jump off a sodding ledge in a flawed attempt to save you, but I've not had a good experience with the AI Allied players in... Any game ever.

Even in FF12 I hated the AI command, because it took an age to get enough Gambit slots to actually have them respond remotely like you'd want, but in 12 you could issue orders to them directly, you could switch to them. I tried to avoid gambits and micromanage it. But in this one, it's said the computer is in control and you can merely influence the kind of pattern they do.

I really hope this one in particular isn't true because it sounds like it's not going to be much fun.

This post has been edited by Del S on 20th December 2009 16:40

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Posted: 20th December 2009 18:36

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Quote (Nytecrawla @ 20th December 2009 10:40)
No fanfare? Sucks, but if you want to play it you'll get over it. You all act like fanfare existed for the entire series. Well, it didn't. Last I checked that particular bit of music didn't show up until FF7 or so, and that game, well, nostalgia goggles taken off, is not a very good one.


Wrong. There has been a variation of the fanfare theme at the end of each battle in every Final Fantasy since the original with the exception of Final Fantasy X-2. Though never identical, each version draws from the same motif and features it to some degree. Hell, it even appeared in Super Mario RPG. If it hasn't been included to any extent, I'd feel very disappointed. Definitely not enough to merit losing all interest in this game, to be sure, but certainly it's a shame. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Victory_Fanfare


If this is in fact the same team that gave us X-2, then I can understand the general apprehension, as that game was the equivalent of an aborted child that somehow managed to survive, only to grow more twisted.

To be perfectly honest, I don't mind the idea of controlling a single player, so long as the A.I. is either hilariously awful to the point that it provides hours of amusement watching them fail the most rudimentary tasks, or they're developed enough to know how to stay out of my way.

I'd also like to point out that, on the issue of a lack of side-quests, it really isn't necessarily a bad thing. I felt like FFXII was nothing BUT side quests and can't even remember what the sodding plot was about. Something something evil rocks, something something Seymour clone. A game with more focus on an established plot, even if it is considerably more linear, might be just what the doctor ordered.

I'm willing to wait until I play it for myself before I pass any final judgment.



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Posted: 20th December 2009 20:03

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Quote (BlitzSage)
Those seem to be rather irrational opinions to me. I really think we're jumping the gun on this game, forming our opinions way too early. I mean, I'm normally nice to games anyways, especially ones in series that have produced such games as FF has.

Quote (Nytecrawla)
Okay, you guys really need to calm down and stop blowing a fuse over every little thing about this game that comes out. I mean, the backlash from the Leona Lewis announcement just over exposed how childish and fanboyish some of us can be. This is starting to become ridiculous.

I understand what you're both saying, I don't agree, but here's something that hopefully we can all agree on:

The game probably won't be all bad, but there already is, and will be, much better games out there that we should be playing instead.

And....

Expectations have sunk to truly 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea depths. I mean, Arkham Asylum, as an example, was looking good from day one and turned out well except for a few flaws. Why does FF get such an easy ride? It's a bit rich to start chucking the word 'fanboyish' around Nytecrawla.

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Posted: 21st December 2009 01:18

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I tend to be pretty easy going when it comes to games, I don't think I've ever played one I truly hated. Heck, I'm playing X-2 right now and I think it is okay (although I do hate whoever came up with that massage mini-game, and most of Brother's dialogue). I guess I'll just wait until this comes out to form an opinion. If it doesn't look great I'll just wait a few months until the price drops.

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Posted: 21st December 2009 02:18

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Quote (sweetdude @ 20th December 2009 16:03)
Why does FF get such an easy ride?

Well, I would guess it's because at least three of the FF games have been consistently ranked as the greatest games of all time. And honestly, aren't we all fanboys? I'm a Square fanboy because they have delivered on every single game they've made (come on, IV? VI? VII? CT?). It's no an easy ride, it's precedent.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 21st December 2009 02:22

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Posted: 21st December 2009 03:55

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OK, it looks like those early spoilers were exaggerations. Here's an update, from the same person as before:
Quote (evafan427)
A digest of criticism from 2ch:
-The whole game is completely linear until halfway through [approximately 20 hours].
-There are hardly any towns.
-The party is always fixed. The whole game just repeats the movie-battle sequence over and over [In fact the progression is closer to movie-run-battle-run-movie-boss-movie-run-battle…].
-There are rather a lot of movies.
-Moving around is like a long marathon.
-The whole game system is just a clone of FF10.
-You can't flee battles [You can't avoid most battles either as there is no sneaking past enemies, including weak ones].
-Your party is completely healed after each battle.
-If the main character in your party dies it is game over [There are only ever 3 characters in battle, often less, and often fixed].
-The best tactic is almost always endlessly attacking. There is next to no strategy or skill involved.
-The summons' transformation scenes are a joke [i.e. Odin turning into a horse].
-The story is rubbish… [Spoilers omitted, but complaints centre on Snow's constant and cringe inducing insistence that he is a hero and will "protect" whatever it is the antagonists are menacing this time]
-Shopping is only done at "online" shops on save points, with no proper shops to be found.
-However, this doesn't matter as you hardly ever get any money [and you can never buy anything more powerful than what you already looted].
-There have been next to no changes from the demo.
-The status screen displays no real information.
-There are only 8 items usable in combat [For that matter, there are hardly any weapons or accessories, and the "crafting" system mostly consists of spending drops to upgrade their 2 stats].
-There are no levels; overall very similar to FF X.
-With all their advertising money, just how was it they failed even to get Famitsu to give full points?


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Posted: 21st December 2009 04:21

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i am now very worried, as i really didnt like X or X-2. i was highly disappointed with the lack of driving airships from X on, and ill be very displeased if i cant drive them this time around. i also like a lot of strategy in battle, so the lack of that strikes bad news for me. i will most likely get it, but i really hope that it isnt FF X-3

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Posted: 21st December 2009 05:21

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Well, from all the word-of-mouth I'm hearing, FF XIII is developed by the FF X-2 team, and is ultimately very similar to FF X. People are already calling it FF X-3 or FF X-III. So, if that's the case, then your worst fears have been realized.

But hey, I actually liked FF X well enough (although it isn't in my, say, top four or five games in the series). I'll just do what I was planning to do and read reviews, play it at a friend's, and wait awhile before picking it up. It's not like it'll be hard to find or anything.

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Posted: 21st December 2009 05:53

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Quote (laszlow @ 21st December 2009 01:21)
Well, from all the word-of-mouth I'm hearing, FF XIII is developed by the FF X-2 team, and is ultimately very similar to FF X. People are already calling it FF X-3 or FF X-III. So, if that's the case, then your worst fears have been realized.

Okay, Wikipedia says that Toriyama, who also directed X-2 is directing this. But, you know, he also directed X. And yes, a lot of the X-2 team is there, but so is the X team. I mean, X-2 was bad, but it's not fair to judge them solely on that (while I will concede, that Square's making me sweat a bit. I mean, they made FFVI! Come on, man! Give them a chance).

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Posted: 21st December 2009 07:11

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Wow, if all that's true, we've got a stripped-down, neutered game that has no resemblance to Final Fantasy as we know it or Entertainment for that matter. The good news is this criticism is from 2chan apparently, and even I know that means the Otakus aren't happy. The Überfanboy Weeaboos will lap it up over here of course, but I don't see something like this resounding with most Western fans, or attracting new blood to the fanbase for that matter. It sounds like the Halo generation will be bored brainless by the fifth boss and wanting to unlock a shotgun already.

Also, did someone who actually knows what they might be talking about just dismiss Famitsu? I AM VINDICATED!*

Hell, this is like a car crash now. I just have to watch. Ladies and Gentlemen, do we have the first Final Fantasy that is So Bad, It's Good?

flag-olly.gif

*Not really.

This post has been edited by Del S on 21st December 2009 12:26

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Posted: 21st December 2009 10:46

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Quote (BlitzSage @ 21st December 2009 03:18)
Quote (sweetdude @ 20th December 2009 16:03)
Why does FF get such an easy ride?

Well, I would guess it's because at least three of the FF games have been consistently ranked as the greatest games of all time. And honestly, aren't we all fanboys? I'm a Square fanboy because they have delivered on every single game they've made (come on, IV? VI? VII? CT?). It's no an easy ride, it's precedent.

It's Square by name only, pretty much. Actually, it's not even the same company that made FFIV, V and VI. FFXII had the FFT team involved if I remember correctly; that's fine, but the only precedent here is FFXI and FFX-2! Not exactly top 100 games of all time material.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 21st December 2009 11:32

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Posted: 21st December 2009 14:43

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More information that isn't from 2chan

First English review of XIII

I'll allow you to read and form your own opinions.

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Posted: 21st December 2009 20:09

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Quote (sweetdude @ 21st December 2009 06:46)
It's Square by name only, pretty much. Actually, it's not even the same company that made FFIV, V and VI. FFXII had the FFT team involved if I remember correctly; that's fine, but the only precedent here is FFXI and FFX-2! Not exactly top 100 games of all time material.

Okay, I buy that argument. This is not entirely the same company that made those great games. Square has changed from a fledgling company to a gaming superpower. That means they're making a lot more money. And yeah, a lot of the people are gone that were the basis of those classic games. But this team did make X, which was a good game. And Kitase is still there, heading the project. There's still some promise. But I really get your point, and I agree that it's a problem.

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Posted: 21st December 2009 23:44

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It should be worth mentioning that this game is getting stellar reviews. You can make up any story you want about Famitsu having its ratings bought for them, but they're not the only game journalists with controversially high review scores. The first English-language review of the game that I found also praises it phenomenally. Basically, this is not as bad a game as Del S knows it to be, but it is very similar to FF X and FF X-2 in execution; those are the two games that share the most staff in common with FF XIII.

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Posted: 22nd December 2009 00:13

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I dunno if it's my system or that site, but that article Nyte and then Lasz both linked to keeps going funny with me. Keeps hanging while I try to scroll. So I may have missed something.

But anyway, it does seem to point towards my main worry being true, that the other two characters are AI controlled. The other claimed problems don't seem to be even covered by that one either way though (Excluding the story ones, but again, to really see the story we'll need someone who can understand the game itself)

And in fairness, I'm now of the view it might just be lucky and these changes are surprisingly okay or even good, or perhaps even that the end result is a hilarious cock up that is so bad that I will love it to bits like I secretly do FF8 because my hatred keeps me warm at night. I don't really know it to be a bad game and in all honesty I want it to be at least playable.

Guess I'm going to have to wait and see for myself in the end. Anyone with a PS3 in the UK who might want it, hold off for a few days after release in case it sucks and I can sell it to you. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Del S on 22nd December 2009 00:14

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Posted: 23rd December 2009 18:22

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Quote (Del S @ 21st December 2009 07:11)
Hell, this is like a car crash now. I just have to watch. Ladies and Gentlemen, do we have the first Final Fantasy that is So Bad, It's Good?


No, I always thought that honor went to Final Fantasy VII, it was basically a test to see if Square could do anything on the Playstation and everybody ate it up and acted like it was the best game ever made or to be made. I honestly don't know why.
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Posted: 23rd December 2009 19:35

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Quote (laszlow @ 21st December 2009 19:44)
It should be worth mentioning that this game is getting stellar reviews. You can make up any story you want about Famitsu having its ratings bought for them, but they're not the only game journalists with controversially high review scores. The first English-language review of the game that I found also praises it phenomenally. Basically, this is not as bad a game as Del S knows it to be, but it is very similar to FF X and FF X-2 in execution; those are the two games that share the most staff in common with FF XIII.

I'm glad you mentioned that, because all of these complaints have been without playing the game. Yet people that have played the game are really enjoying it.

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Posted: 24th December 2009 21:34

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But anyway, it does seem to point towards my main worry being true, that the other two characters are AI controlled.

That's the impression I'm getting too. I'm not exactly sure how I feel about the other two characters being AI controlled. I felt like it worked out pretty well in FFXII, but at the same time I do somewhat miss the 'old' (if you can call it that) system. Sure, the FFXII gambits and single character control may help add realism to a battle system, but it's just not the same.

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Posted: 25th December 2009 20:04

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Kotaku's Tim Rogers has put forth a very detailed first impressions segment on Final Fantasy XIII that is very much worth a read if you have some time on your hands. He spends the first several paragraphs reminiscing about Final Fantasy VI and ear infections, but eventually gets to the good stuff.

Amusingly, I have an uncle named Tim Rogers, except that I think he spells it Rodgers and is a surgeon from California instead of a gaming journalist from Indiana.

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Posted: 25th December 2009 22:28

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Just re-read this.
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It's Square by name only, pretty much. Actually, it's not even the same company that made FFIV, V and VI. FFXII had the FFT team involved if I remember correctly; that's fine, but the only precedent here is FFXI and FFX-2! Not exactly top 100 games of all time material.

I think it'll be interesting to see FF versus XIII then, seeing as a good amount of the people involved were involved in FF's VI-IX (according to the credits on one of the teaser videos).

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Posted: 26th December 2009 00:49

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Controlling a single character in battle? I knew there was a reason I started drifting away from FF and it took me so long to come back. It doesn't sound like the funnest route for the would-be gamer. They should have the option to turn it on and off. Then people from each side of the argument could be happy.

I'm trying to stay mildly excited for the game and indifferent to the gripes I hear until I play for myself. It gets harder and harder though.

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Posted: 31st December 2009 00:40

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Quote (Del S @ 21st December 2009 07:11)
Hell, this is like a car crash now. I just have to watch. Ladies and Gentlemen, do we have the first Final Fantasy that is So Bad, It's Good?

flag-olly.gif

*Not really.

XD

Off-topic, but that made me smile. A fellow CoN-er who is a Troper. smile.gif

Anyways, back on track here. I'm going to play the game regardless and form my own opinion. Look at the changes XII made and people still enjoyed it a lot (myself being one of them). And of course, we have the naysayers who complained about every little detail of the game. Why should these people keep us from enjoying the game? The way I see it, Final Fantasy is a long-running series and changes should be made so that they can see what works. After all, Square Enix has already made several games that defined the series and thensome. Who's to say that they won't continue doing so with the newer games?

Square Enix isn't out to please everyone now. You don't have to play their games and personally, it's pretty annoying to keep other people from enjoying it or complaining about games you aren't even going to play. I'll admit, in the past I was one of those people, mostly because of the vitriol Final Fantasy IX received for being radically different from VII and VIII. IX is actually my favorite game.

I got hooked on the series starting with VIII, believe it or not. And dammit, I enjoyed that game. And it got me to play every other game in the series (save for XI). And I'll most likely buy and play XIII. I may even enjoy it (gasp). I'm tired of seeing people keeping those who want to play and enjoy the game.

There, rant over.

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Posted: 12th January 2010 14:40

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Remember people were negative over FF7 for being futuristic instead of Medievil like the previous FF's but once you started playing it got good fast. So we shouldn't be too hard on 13 because it might turn out to be FF7 reborn (Lightning=Female Cloud. Its obvious Square is trying to pull FF7 success again...but then again I think they'd like to do that with all their games)

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Posted: 12th January 2010 23:53

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I don't think we can expect to ever receive another FF as good as 6 or 7. They were lightning in a bottle, if you will. It seems odd to me that SE wouldn't realize which games are the best in the series and take the best elements from those game when they make a new one. I'm not expecting clones obviously but continue to introduce new ideas while holding true to the best of the older ideas.

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