Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

Quote (Neal @ 14th August 2009 08:01)

I like this fight a lot because you could take it in a bunch of different ways. Sabin and Yang have to be smart enough to know that Amarant can come back to life, so they have to target him. If they did that and took him out, I don't think Sabin would have a problem taking Yang out and winning.

But wait! Yang is smart enough to see that coming, so would he agree with that methodology? He might have to sit back and let Sabin/Amarant weaken each other and then finish them off with a kick...it could go in a lot of different ways. Great fight. I'm still gonna stick with Amarant though.

But my argument is that he would've cast Aura on them to keep them alive for the first fight. So whichever way they chose to fight against each other, Amarant's main advantage would have backfired on him. And Sabin has the power to take them both out. So Sabin would take the win.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 14th August 2009 22:13)

But my argument is that he would've cast Aura on them to keep them alive for the first fight. So whichever way they chose to fight against each other, Amarant's main advantage would have backfired on him. And Sabin has the power to take them both out. So Sabin would take the win.

And you think that it just went unused since they won? Maybe the Brawlers won specifically due to having used Aura?

On the other hand Sabin also has a healing ability - the Mantra Blitz.

Basically, I think that both Sabin and Amarant will outlast Yang and ina one on one I give it to Amarant for his agility AND ruthlessness.

This post has been edited by SilverMaduin on 18th August 2009 09:18

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Mantra doesn't heal Sabin, only everyone else in the party.

I'm giving this to Yang. If everyone insists to use questions of logic and who targets whom to determine the resolution, then so can I dammit.

Think of the Mexican Standoff problem. If the two weaker characters both target the strongest character (Amarant, because of Aura and Chakra), then once the strongest is finished then the stronger of the two weaker characters will beat the weaker one. Therefore, it's in Yang's best interests to attack Sabin exclusively while Amarant and Sabin attack one another, and switch targets if Sabin dies more quickly than Amarant does. Bada boom. And if Sabin tries to use Air Blade or Fire Dance as a major equalizer, well, keep in mind that Yang can multitarget as well with Kick, and that Amarant is probably attacking Sabin exclusively as his biggest threat.

And really I think you all are underestimating Yang. his claws grant status effects like poison, confusion, and sleep, plus paralysis in the Advance version. If Sabin or Amarant dies and then Yang manages to paralyze his last target, then who wins?

--------------------

this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Quote (BlitzSage @ 14th August 2009 16:13)

But my argument is that he would've cast Aura on them to keep them alive for the first fight. So whichever way they chose to fight against each other, Amarant's main advantage would have backfired on him. And Sabin has the power to take them both out. So Sabin would take the win.

I went with the impression that whatever nameless voice healed their wounds would have also negated any positive status effects as well. But that's what's really fun about WNF: you can take it in any direction you'd like, especially in a very balanced matchup like this.

This post has been edited by Neal on 18th August 2009 14:39

--------------------

Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Quote (laszlow @ 18th August 2009 08:09)

And if Sabin tries to use Air Blade or Fire Dance as a major equalizer, well, keep in mind that Yang can multitarget as well with Kick, and that Amarant is probably attacking Sabin exclusively as his biggest threat.

Why would Sabin use his lesser Blitz attacks when he could use Phantom Rush, which can break through Yang's and Amarant's defence? Why multitarget when he can quickly deal out major damage one at a time? Equalizer you say? What in God's name does Amarant or Yang have that can equal that technique?

Think about this: if they were able to weather the unbelievable power of the Heroes and the Black Mages, Amarant, who at the time was on their side and needed both Yang and Sabin to live, cast Regen and Auto-Life on them.

But let's forget about that even. If they were to survive such powers as Cloud and his crew, the Black Mages, and all three to come out alive, who was the one who was the main offense for their team? Who ultimately lead them through victory? Who was their "powerhouse?" Sabin.

You might argue that Amarant was the force behind their victory, by keeping them alive and healed. But if you argue that, then aren't you just proving my point?

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 18th August 2009 19:00)

You might argue that Amarant was the force behind their victory, by keeping them alive and healed. But if you argue that, then aren't you just proving my point?

No, I'm not proving your point. You're overestimating the HELL out of Sabin. All he has that's effective is single-target damage. Amarant can mitigate that with his healing skills, and as a result Sabin will focus on Amarant. Sabin's damage output is the highest of the three, so I believe that Amarant will concentrate on Sabin. While those two are stalemating, Yang is relatively free from harm until one of the other two dies, placing him in the role of first shooter in the Mexican standoff scenario.

And really, I think that you're overestimating Sabin. He doesn't even have the strongest offense in FF VI relative to other characters' weapon and armor selection. His big sell is Bum/Phantom Rush, which is only useful until other characters can reliably deal straight nines. He has no way to break through Amarant's healing skills, and has no defenses if Yang manages to sleep or paralyze him. I think in the given scenario Yang has the highest shot at victory, as his status effect attacks can both shut down Sabin completely and eliminate Amarant before he can break in a healing skill.

--------------------

this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Quote (laszlow @ 18th August 2009 20:19)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 18th August 2009 19:00)

You might argue that Amarant was the force behind their victory, by keeping them alive and healed. But if you argue that, then aren't you just proving my point?

No, I'm not proving your point. You're overestimating the HELL out of Sabin. All he has that's effective is single-target damage. Amarant can mitigate that with his healing skills, and as a result Sabin will focus on Amarant. Sabin's damage output is the highest of the three, so I believe that Amarant will concentrate on Sabin. While those two are stalemating, Yang is relatively free from harm until one of the other two dies, placing him in the role of first shooter in the Mexican standoff scenario.

And really, I think that you're overestimating Sabin. He doesn't even have the strongest offense in FF VI relative to other characters' weapon and armor selection. His big sell is Bum/Phantom Rush, which is only useful until other characters can reliably deal straight nines. He has no way to break through Amarant's healing skills, and has no defenses if Yang manages to sleep or paralyze him. I think in the given scenario Yang has the highest shot at victory, as his status effect attacks can both shut down Sabin completely and eliminate Amarant before he can break in a healing skill.

Okay, maybe I am. But I have seen that technique do a lot of damage against powerful enemies. And if you exclude Magic and relics, and just look at skills, he does have the strongest attack.

But who knows? There are too many unknowns in this fight to say who would win. They've just battled, so none of them would be full strength. But what exactly happened, and how damaged they were, how much MP is lost, and which status affects still linger, are all open to interpretation.

But with that attack in his arsenal, I think he has the best chance.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 19th August 2009 05:55

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 18th August 2009 21:51)

But who knows? There are too many unknowns in this fight to say who would win. They've just battled, so none of them would be full strength. But what exactly happened, and how damaged they were, how much MP is lost, and which status affects still linger, are all open to interpretation.

Depending on how you interpret their mystery benefactor, you may conclude that, in addition to healing their HP, said benefactor also restored MP and reset statuses. That is how I interpreted the match-up and why I gave the win to Amarant (because his use of Aura for Regen and Re-raise are just too good to overcome).

As for Yang's status-effect inducing weapons, doesn't Amarant (and Sabin, though I defaulted to Sabin's using Bum Rush) have access to similar weaponry.

As some of you have already pointed out, it all comes down to what Yang will do. If he attacks Amarant first, Amarant dies. If he attacks Sabin first, Sabin dies. Whatever happens, Yang is the next to die.

So the question we all should ask ourselves is: what is Yang's plan. He is the oldest, the wisest, the best tactician in the group. I'd say he sees that there is no way he can win (he knows their skills already too well as he has fought alongside with them), so it is just a matter of conscious decision. Who will he aid?

And answer for that is simple - Sabin. Sabin is a monk, he is cheerful, good and merciful. Amarant, on the other hand, is an assassin, is angry and ruthless. If Yang was to target Sabin, Amarant wouldn't think for a second about sparing him. Sabin would. Yang will probably want to battle Sabin fair and square to determine which one is better. A true battle. And, well, he would lose, but after that they would become friends.

So, yeah, Sabin wins.

--------------------

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one...

Quote (Silver_Zombie @ 19th August 2009 21:58)

So the question we all should ask ourselves is: what is Yang's plan. He is the oldest, the wisest, the best tactician in the group. [...] Who will he aid?

No-one. The setting of the battle makes it impossible for any alliance - this is a no-holds-barred deathmatch. It's not about who wins or loses, it's about who gets to stay alive.
There is no "I'll lose, but we'll be friends." option.
Also, you seem to be convinced that these guys somehow had time to learn each other's backgrounds and personalities thoroughly during the previous battle. I believe that couldn't have been the case.

And by logic of Yang being the better tactitian, his best shot would be to pit the two stronger oppennents against each other, and finish the winner off while he's worn out. There are two problems with this, both in favour of Amarant. One is the aforementioned Regen and Auto-Life inducing Aura ability.
The other problem is that out of these three only Amarant has the kind of mindset that will use dirty tricks and exploit all weaknesses of his opponnents. And I mean all. If anyone gets any mercy in this fight, it will work to Amarant's favour. And he does not lose opportunities or give chances.

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

I'm glad the Powerhouses won in the end. This second fight is probably better with them than any other group.

I'm voting Amarant as well for all the reasons we've covered. I understand that 1v1s with Sabin can be dangerous for them both and beneficial for Yang, but as Neal says we've seen in the fight with Zidane that Amarant can remove himself from battle with one quick leap. This is probably his greatest strength in the fight: he can attack and retreat much faster than the other two, giving him time to heal.

--------------------

Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Sabim beats yang

The fight would be:


Amartant vs sabim



--------------------

We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Ah... This is such a tough one! I'm going to go with... Uh... Ok.

I think that Yang could beat either of them. He has better control than Amarant, and I've personally thought of him as a more useful character than Sabin... Though it could really go any way...

I've got to give it to Yang. If I think about it much more I'll never settle on one winner!

--------------------

Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

While I understand, that maing another round of WNF may take some time still, I would be happy to get to know the results of this round, considering that most probably nobody's going to cast more votes until the next fight.

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

With great apologies, the internet situation hasn’t gone as smoothly as one would think. It’s a situation not worth going over, however one that’ll I’ll say has found a temporary resolution. As such, “WNF” will have to change acronyms from “Wednesday Night Fight” to “Whenever Night Fight”. Doesn’t roll off the tongue as well, I agree. But it’s the best I can do.


And now, at looooong last, the results of “last week’s” fight:

CoN:
Amarant - 4
Sabin - 3
Yang - 2

Facebook:
Sabin - 6
Amarant - 3
Yang - 1

AIM:
Sabin - 8
Amarant - 4
Yang - 4

IRL:
Sabin - 6
Amarant - 5
Yang - 3

TOTALS
Yang - 10
Amarant - 16
Sabin - 23

The winner: Sabin Rene Figaro


And now, the stunning conclusion to this epic, and probably too drawn-out, fight…

Just when Sabin thinks he’s won, and could finally wake up from this nightmare, someone else emerges from the darkness. And it all becomes abundantly clear.

There is only one these fighters could co-mingle in this lost abyss. The only answer had to be drawn from a man who possessed the power to travel through dimensions itself. And that one person is the final challenger is this long battle.


In the RED Corner…



Sabin Rene Figaro

Broken, beaten, and scarred, Sabin will have to muster all his energy in order to fell this final foe. But this battle won’t simply be about pulverizing an opponent into a fine pulp. This one will take finesse, tact, and a lot of planning. Is Sabin able to outwit his opponent and get the fatal strike in?


In the BLUE Corner…



Gogo

In the Final Fantasy universe, only one person has demonstrated the superior technique required to jump from one dimension to the next. In Final Fantasy V, he was the guardian of the final class, battling with Bartz and company. After his defeat, he leaps from their world to that of the World of Balance and Final Fantasy VI. After escaping from the belly of a Zone Eater, he accompanies the team and mimics his way to victory. As to why Gogo would use this miraculous power to pull the heroes of such realms together to fight remains unknown. But if Sabin wants to escape, it’ll have to be through the motley clothed being.

Exceptions: Anyone who claims “Oh, Sabin can just stand still because that’s how it’s done in the battle in 5” will not be counted. Here’s the difference: In 5, he was essentially training Bartz and co. how to fight like mimes. After he was successful, he left. In this battle, he’s not teaching anything to anyone, and has no obligation to leave. He can and will stay in this fight as long as he wants.

So, can the bulky hero find someone to outclass the master mime?


--------------------

"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

I believe the fight will be determined on who can take the most pain.

At first I gave it to Sabin hands down, but then i thought about and Sabin is already weakened form his last fight with Amarant and Yang (you know he is hurting after fighting those two) so in the end Gogo has fatigue on his side.

Sabin would get tired at one point and when he does Gogo would capitalize, or simply out last him.

Gogo would emerge victorious.

This post has been edited by Moogle37 on 17th September 2009 00:42

--------------------

"You don't need a reason to help people."

I'm going to look at this less from the standpoint of a "straight numbers" game and more from the "Who brings what to the table" standpoint. In that regard, Gogo has many more options (even though I'm too lazy/busy with homework to actually approach what that strategy would be) and I've no doubt he could pull something off to eliminate Sabin.

Winner: Gogo

Well, it's been a long fight. And I can't help but feel a sense of accomplishment in this battle.

When it was the Powerhouses, I felt like I was tha only one that supported them. Yet, they prevailed...

Then when I argued for Sabin, people gave Amarant to say that he could dominate Sabin. Yet, Sabin prevailed.... And I have to admit, I lost hope that he would win, but he did.

And now the battle that would seem impossable to win is now upon us, after all of this battle Sabin gets a fresh opponent. But then again, let's think about this for a moment....

Aren't we giving Gogo quite a bit of power here that he doesn't have? Wait, he's Gogo from FFV, but he survived and is now Gogo from FFVI? And now he has the power to bring together all the best FF heroes? But nevermind, let's just roll with it.....

Just because he has the ability to mimic people, doesn't mean that he's at the same level of power as them. He could be at level one, and Sabin could be level 99. We do not know exactly how powerful this newly-invented Gogo is, so we are left to assume. (And you see, that is called reasonable doubt)

Okay, this fight really depends not on how strong Gogo is, it depends on how Sabin won.

Sabin has endured, without the ability to heal himself, some of the most powerful heroes in FF History. How? There is now no question that Amarant used Regen on Sabin. There is no way else Sabin could have survived.

Maybe I'm wrong, but he has defeated Cloud, the black mages, dragoons, and now Amarant and Yang. And I have stood with him for this long, I can not go wrong with Sabin for the finale.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

I'm going to say Gogo wins. He's the straw that breaks the camel's back in this case.

--------------------

Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Gogo. Sabins's fought a lot, he's tired, and Gogo can match his blitzes and has quite a lot of other moves as well.

<b>Gogo</b> goes Taskmaster on Sabin and wins.


--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

HMM!! that is a rather dificult fight.

Gogo can imitate anybody,therefore he can heal.

But phantom rush would kill gogo in 1 hit.

I will have to give this to sabim.


--------------------

We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Gogo does it. Matches each of Sabin's moves, but better.

--------------------

Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

Are there chances for a WNF revival anytime soon?

--------------------

"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 15th June 2010 14:30)

Are there chances for a WNF revival anytime soon?

I'd personally like to see it return. It's really fun, and it's been so long. But I guess it's Sabin's thing, so it's up to him.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Whoa, I must have missed this last development in the fight. And since no winner has been announced yet, I'm going to give my vote, whether you want it or not.

Sabin is tired, true, Gogo is not. And we should assume that Sabin doesn't know about Gogo's special skill (or he would really wait until Gogo got bored, whether that would be wise or not). I'm saying that Sabin would concentrate on avoiding any attacks from Gogo and focus on one single fatal blow that he would be sure wouldn't miss. And then he would strike, killing Gogo on the spot. Nobody would be left to mimic that move.

Sabin wins this one.

This post has been edited by Silver_Zombie on 17th June 2010 14:02

--------------------

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one...

I agree. Wherever Sabin is, I vote for a renewal of Wednesday Night Fights!

--------------------

Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!