CoN 25th Anniversary: 1997-2022
Water-elemental

Posted: 16th September 2003 08:28

*
Cactuar
Posts: 259

Joined: 27/7/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Recently, I've been thinking about water-elemental abilities, and I've tried to list all of the water spells that FFVI includes, as they aren't too many. These are the ones I have got this far:

Aqua Rake (Lore performed by Strago)
Clean Sweep (Lore performed by Strago)
Esper Attack: Bismark (can't remember the name)
Water Edge (Thrown object by Shadow)
Flash Rain/Acid Rain (Enemy magic. Not 100% sure of these two)
El Niño (Dance performed by Mog)

And now for a question (Master ZED, maybe?): Are the water-elemental spells unique from ice-elemental spells in stats and such, or have water and ice got the same function during the game?

And finally a philosophy question: Why are there always a lack of water spells in many RPG:s, and especially in the FF-games? We always get fire, ice and thunder spells, but we can never cast "Water 1", "Water 2" and "Water 3"! user posted image

--------------------
People say I'm a slow learner, but I type fast!
Post #17833
Top
Posted: 16th September 2003 10:44
*
SOLDIER
Posts: 741

Joined: 5/7/2001

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Well, you could just look through my attack guide, which you can pick up at my site.

Also, yes, ice and water are two different elementals.

--------------------
Post #17837
Top
Posted: 16th September 2003 18:32

*
Kung Foogle
Posts: 1,843

Joined: 24/1/2001

Awards:
Second place in CoNCAA, 2018. First place in CoNCAA, 2017. Third place in CoNCAA, 2016. Second place in CoNCAA, 2013. 
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. First place in CoNCAA, 2005. Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy I section of CoN. 
See More (Total 9)
Quote (Shirrow @ 16th September 2003 03:28)
And finally a philosophy question: Why are there always a lack of water spells in many RPG:s, and especially in the FF-games? We always get fire, ice and thunder spells, but we can never cast "Water 1", "Water 2" and "Water 3"! user posted image

The Water elemental spells do get neglected in some Final Fantasies, but in others they are equally present. The Waters are useful jack-of-all-trades Junctions in Final Fantasy VIII, and the full array of Water, Water 2, and Water 3 are available in FFX, albeit under the names of Water, Watera, and Waterga, respectively. Water spells are also a part of Frog's repertoire in Chrono Trigger, though they aren't terribly useful.

Generally, the Water element in most console RPGs has been pinned as an element of healing rather than harm; its cousin Ice is typically treated as the more offensive verse of the same song. Nonetheless, there are a number of powerful Water elemental spells with damage dealing properties.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 16th September 2003 18:34

--------------------
"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee
Post #17844
Top
Posted: 17th September 2003 22:07

*
Disciplinary Committee Member
Posts: 647

Joined: 5/8/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
For some reason I tend to love water spells. I think however, that game companies in general find less sensible ways to make water seem damaging. Huge floods should tecnically damage all characters (Merton-style), and jets of water materializing out of the air and indoor rain are maybe less plausible than some other elements. Although ice is water too, once it materializes its weight and coldness already bust the enemies up. Water won't hurt you unless it has some real momentum behind it.

I still love it though.

--------------------
Get me off this Disciplinary Committee so I can play any FF except for FF8!!!
Post #17908
Top
Posted: 18th September 2003 00:00

*
Cetra
Posts: 2,397

Joined: 22/3/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. Winner of the 2005 100k post contest. 
The only strength behind Water has always been with Leviathan (his VI replacement, Bismark, didn't seem especially strong).

What is the difference between Water and Ice, as far as strengths/weaknesses go?

--------------------
"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer
Post #17910
Top
Posted: 18th September 2003 00:44

*
Chocobo Knight
Posts: 82

Joined: 2/9/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
They're elements. While some are pinned for strengths or weaknesses based on what the enemy's design is, weakness and strength vs. an element is simply set with status-style bits.

--------------------
"Not me... I dreamt I was a moron."
Post #17913
Top
Posted: 18th September 2003 00:56

*
Cetra
Posts: 2,397

Joined: 22/3/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. Winner of the 2005 100k post contest. 
Well, I've been thinking about it, and it seems like:

Water Strengths
Against Fire
Water-Elemental Monsters' Weaknesses
Against Lightning

Ice Strengths
Against Fire
Against Reptiles/Amphibians
Ice-Elemental Monsters' Weaknesses
Fire

What else did I miss? It seems that water is usless as a magic spell in your own characters' arsenal.

--------------------
"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer
Post #17916
Top
Posted: 18th September 2003 01:01

*
Chocobo Knight
Posts: 82

Joined: 2/9/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Well for the game it's listed for (here, ff6) It's really only there to pick out a few monsters you can zap for bonus damage

For a game that actually calculates differences in damage for water/rain/bolt/fire, try FF Tactics.

--------------------
"Not me... I dreamt I was a moron."
Post #17917
Top
Posted: 19th September 2003 13:46

*
Cactuar
Posts: 259

Joined: 27/7/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Quote (Ejoty @ 18th September 2003 00:07)
For some reason I tend to love water spells. I think however, that game companies in general find less sensible ways to make water seem damaging. Huge floods should tecnically damage all characters (Merton-style), and jets of water materializing out of the air and indoor rain are maybe less plausible than some other elements. Although ice is water too, once it materializes its weight and coldness already bust the enemies up. Water won't hurt you unless it has some real momentum behind it.

I still love it though.

Spells like Ultima and Meteor also seem to hit everyone on the screen, at least in FFVI. But they never damage your buddies.

But I see your point. Yes, water might be a little difficult to use as a cool attack effect. But they could at least use some bubbles or a burst of water coming from underground etc. Just look at the Aqualung enemy skill in FFVII.

--------------------
People say I'm a slow learner, but I type fast!
Post #18007
Top
Posted: 19th September 2003 17:35
*
Holy Swordsman
Posts: 1,972

Joined: 31/7/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. Has more than fifty news submissions to CoN. Vital involvement in the Final Fantasy IV section of CoN. 
I always thought most of the water effects were a little silly, especially summons like Leviathan and Siren (in FFVIII) that flash-flood the whole screen. I mean, that water has to go somewhere, right?

I guess I like the way they do it in FFX a little more, where there's kinda a big blob of water that attacks the monsters. Even if it's implausible to get enough force behind a spray, I'd rather see jet sprays doing damage than silly things like bubbles.

--------------------
Veni, vidi, dormivi.
Post #18025
Top
Posted: 19th September 2003 17:43

*
Cetra
Posts: 2,397

Joined: 22/3/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. Winner of the 2005 100k post contest. 
That's a good point, but Siren's not really water-elemental. I always figured the way she hurt people was through really painful music.

Seriously though, if Ice can do the same thing, plus more, what is the point in having Water? What advantage does water have over ice?

--------------------
"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer
Post #18029
Top
Posted: 19th September 2003 21:43

*
Disciplinary Committee Member
Posts: 647

Joined: 5/8/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
Quote (Dark Paladin @ 19th September 2003 12:43)

Seriously though, if Ice can do the same thing, plus more, what is the point in having Water? What advantage does water have over ice?

Well in FFX, which we've brought up, Lightning-enemies are weak against water and vice-versa, but fire-enemies aren't necessarily weak to water.

...and yeah, I didn't think about Ultima, Quake, and so on.. but thanks for seeing my point Shirrow.

...and Aqualung does kick butt.

This post has been edited by Ejoty on 19th September 2003 21:46

--------------------
Get me off this Disciplinary Committee so I can play any FF except for FF8!!!
Post #18037
Top
Posted: 20th September 2003 21:51

*
Cactuar
Posts: 235

Joined: 6/5/2003

Awards:
Member of more than ten years. Member of more than five years. 
yea, I always wonder why they don't make alot of water attacks and lots of ice attack for RPGs. (altho, there is many water attacks in the Pokemon games like water gun, hydro pump, surf, and water fall to name a few.)
Post #18062
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members: