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I've beaten VI, and yeah I understand all of that well enough, it's just that it would have been nice if they explained Kefka's dramatic increase in power a little better.

As for Sephiroth, I'm of the mind that he was at the same level of power throughout the entire game, minus the flashbacks, and your characters had to spend the whole game getting to his level. He does things that are consistently amazing throughout the whole thing.

Only thing I can come up with is that Kefka was hiding his real power until the esper scene, which would also explain why Gestahl didn't feel the need to keep him in check to prevent his betrayal.

I don't think it would suit Kefka to hide his power like that. Also, he would surely want to wipe Terra and the others out in Narshe to get the esper there. You're right, it does seem a bit strange that he goes from being fairly weak to powerful, but he may just be levelling at the same time as the player. It reminds me a bit of Ash and Gary in Pokemon. Maybe it would've made more sense if Kefka had a powerful move to finish the fight like Beatrix does, then we could just assume he was always powerful.

Basically, to me, I just imagine Kefka junctioning or eating the magicite to make him stronger.

Edit

I didn't realise this was the Sephiroth topic, I thought it was the Kefka one. I like Sephiroth's strength stage a lot actually. He appears to be fighting on an even playing field to the player, only he has made it a lot further. I have always been so impressed that everyone takes 0 off him! He must be made out of corrugated iron... or serrated iron. I know it's a really simple game device, but still. Cloud doesn't actually kill him in the reactor, he just manages to throw him into the lifestream.

This post has been edited by sweetdude on 3rd July 2009 20:26

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

Quote (sweetdude @ 3rd July 2009 20:18)

I don't think it would suit Kefka to hide his power like that. Also, he would surely want to wipe Terra and the others out in Narshe to get the esper there. You're right, it does seem a bit strange that he goes from being fairly weak to powerful, but he may just be levelling at the same time as the player. It reminds me a bit of Ash and Gary in Pokemon. Maybe it would've made more sense if Kefka had a powerful move to finish the fight like Beatrix does.

Basically, to me, I just imagine Kefka junctioning or eating the magicite to make him stronger.

That would be another explanation to the whole thing

Who knows?

he was pretty pittifully weak during most of the game though,i mean i kicked his ass bad even when i had no esper,in the first fight with him in the military camp he didn't use magic at all and in narshe he used a few spells including muddle but wasn't tough at all.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I don't think it would suit Kefka to hide his power either, I just can't wrap my head around why Gestahl would grant such an obvious whackjob so much power, and then expect everything to turn out ok. I know that Gestahl is evil too, but he's level-headed and had to understand what he was doing.

And yeah, sorry for getting the thread derailed like that. It's just that VII gets bashed quite often, while I don't recall ever seeing a bad word about VI even though it has it's flaws as well.

Quote (Ruin's Fate @ 3rd July 2009 20:42)

I don't think it would suit Kefka to hide his power either, I just can't wrap my head around why Gestahl would grant such an obvious whackjob so much power, and then expect everything to turn out ok. I know that Gestahl is evil too, but he's level-headed and had to understand what he was doing.

And yeah, sorry for getting the thread derailed like that. It's just that VII gets bashed quite often, while I don't recall ever seeing a bad word about VI even though it has it's flaws as well.

Well, you're making the assumption that Gestahl knew about Kefka's powers. All we know at the beginning is that Kefka is an imperial general who is rather pompous. And I also think that it's fair to say that he did much less strategic work than the others. For all we know he could be just a lackey with no real power.

The opposite conjecture (the one which makes him look the best) is that he was actually in control the whole time. He used Gestahl.

But either way, he wasn't as strong as he would become at the end. So his story is almost an inspiring story of a person who rises to the top. Except, of course, he's a maniac.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 3rd July 2009 21:21)

Quote (Ruin's Fate @ 3rd July 2009 20:42)

I don't think it would suit Kefka to hide his power either, I just can't wrap my head around why Gestahl would grant such an obvious whackjob so much power, and then expect everything to turn out ok. I know that Gestahl is evil too, but he's level-headed and had to understand what he was doing.

And yeah, sorry for getting the thread derailed like that. It's just that VII gets bashed quite often, while I don't recall ever seeing a bad word about VI even though it has it's flaws as well.

Well, you're making the assumption that Gestahl knew about Kefka's powers. All we know at the beginning is that Kefka is an imperial general who is rather pompous. And I also think that it's fair to say that he did much less strategic work than the others. For all we know he could be just a lackey with no real power.

The opposite conjecture (the one which makes him look the best) is that he was actually in control the whole time. He used Gestahl.

But either way, he wasn't as strong as he would become at the end. So his story is almost an inspiring story of a person who rises to the top. Except, of course, he's a maniac.

Maybe its as simple as they need people like kefka in the empire for certain positions of power to deal with the enemies and espers and underestimated his treachery and just what he is capable of.Maybe gestahl thought he could contain and controll kefka.

It isn't exactly easy to find people who are willing to kill people and do what he does.Kefka plays an important role in the empire,perhaps his job was to kill the returners,or perhaps his real job is to deal with magitek armor manufactor,after all i heard he wasn't even a general all,in the scene where he poisons the water he isn't even a general.

This post has been edited by Magitek_slayer on 3rd July 2009 21:47

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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 3rd July 2009 15:21)

Well, you're making the assumption that Gestahl knew about Kefka's powers. All we know at the beginning is that Kefka is an imperial general who is rather pompous. And I also think that it's fair to say that he did much less strategic work than the others. For all we know he could be just a lackey with no real power.

He is referred to by other characters in the game as the Court Magician of the Empire, and I may be wrong but I thought Gestahl was the one who ordered the tests that gave him his magic to begin with be done and oversaw the whole project. But yeah, I'm just gonna chalk it up to Gestahl trusting Kefka too much, and being negligent to stop things from getting out of hand.

Backtracking a bit in the thread to get back on topic, it was said that Sephiroth had no reason to act the way he did because Cloud went through the same thing. But it's possible that Sephiroth had a mental breakdown similar to the one Cloud had later on, but instead of a close loved one helping him put the pieces back together, he had Jenova in there screw around with the pieces. So she's not controlling him per se, but had a definite impact on his psyche. He also believes himself to be a cetra, which suffered massive losses fighting off the "calamity from the skies" while humans ran and hid. That at least partially helps explain his disregard for human life, because they're all worthless cowards to him. I think it's tragic that everything went down the way it did, and yes, Hojo and Shinra are the ones to blame for almost all of it.

Quote (Ruin's Fate @ 3rd July 2009 22:18)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 3rd July 2009 15:21)

Well, you're making the assumption that Gestahl knew about Kefka's powers. All we know at the beginning is that Kefka is an imperial general who is rather pompous. And I also think that it's fair to say that he did much less strategic work than the others. For all we know he could be just a lackey with no real power.

He is referred to by other characters in the game as the Court Magician of the Empire, and I may be wrong but I thought Gestahl was the one who ordered the tests that gave him his magic to begin with be done and oversaw the whole project. But yeah, I'm just gonna chalk it up to Gestahl trusting Kefka too much, and being negligent to stop things from getting out of hand.

Backtracking a bit in the thread to get back on topic, it was said that Sephiroth had no reason to act the way he did because Cloud went through the same thing. But it's possible that Sephiroth had a mental breakdown similar to the one Cloud had later on, but instead of a close loved one helping him put the pieces back together, he had Jenova in there screw around with the pieces. So she's not controlling him per se, but had a definite impact on his psyche. He also believes himself to be a cetra, which suffered massive losses fighting off the "calamity from the skies" while humans ran and hid. That at least partially helps explain his disregard for human life, because they're all worthless cowards to him. I think it's tragic that everything went down the way it did, and yes, Hojo and Shinra are the ones to blame for almost all of it.

YES!! FINALLY!!!

Someone finally agrees with me LOL!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if jenova was fucking with sephiroth's mind,i mean it is a parasitic alien monster soposedly right? perhaps with no morals and using him to its bidding.I also figured that he had a mental breakdown since the library wich was the day he burned down clouds town from all that was happening.I know for a fact that cloud said he has the blood of cetra within himself.I don't remember if sephiroth mentioned anything because its been a long time since i played ff7.


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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

I think they do call him a Court Mage, as some sort of official title.

But that doesn't matter. The point is that isn't a plothole, because either Kefka didn't have the power or he hid them. But that makes him different than Sephiroth, because Sephiroth has a lot of power throughout the game. And I don't bash FFVII. I'm sorry if it sounds that way. FFVII is my 2nd favorite.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 3rd July 2009 17:52)

And I don't bash FFVII. I'm sorry if it sounds that way. FFVII is my 2nd favorite.

Yeah I realize that. I don't think I've ever read a post from you that wasn't unbiased. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Quote (BlitzSage @ 3rd July 2009 23:52)

I think they do call him a Court Mage, as some sort of official title.

But that doesn't matter. The point is that isn't a plothole, because either Kefka didn't have the power or he hid them. But that makes him different than Sephiroth, because Sephiroth has a lot of power throughout the game. And I don't bash FFVII. I'm sorry if it sounds that way. FFVII is my 2nd favorite.

It is a good thing then.

I do not like people who are both opinionated and rude about it if people disagree with them,and alot of others don't either.



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We are stardust.Our bodies are made from the guts of exploding stars.

Neil Degrasse Tyson.

Quote (Magitek_slayer @ 3rd July 2009 23:25)

I know for a fact that cloud said he has the blood of cetra within himself.I don't remember if sephiroth mentioned anything because its been a long time since i played ff7.

Wrong way around. Sephiroth claims this as early justification for the Nibelheim killing spree. Cloud never makes any such claim. (That would kind of destroy the idea that Aeris is the last one, no?)

Having absorbed the knowledge of the lifestream on his way to Northern Cave, Sephiroth must realise the truth by the time FF7 itself begins. So this false history can no longer be an excuse: it's all for his "mother", regardless of her origin, or for his own destructive will.

Quote (Ruin's Fate @ 4th July 2009 08:11)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 3rd July 2009 17:52)

And I don't bash FFVII. I'm sorry if it sounds that way. FFVII is my 2nd favorite.

Yeah I realize that. I don't think I've ever read a post from you that wasn't unbiased. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Now you've made me bashful....

But seriously, how could you disrespect Sephiroth? To me, he's that Darth Vader-esque villain type: cold and calculated. And physically tough. Sure I like Kefka better, but they are different types of villains.

Now, I do agree that they are similar in many ways, and Kefka inspired Sephiroth. But either way, it is Sephiroth himself that makes him stand out.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 5th July 2009 03:59)

But seriously, how could you disrespect Sephiroth?

"Mama's boy!"
"Cool sword, why doesn't it bend sideways, though?"
"Does your hair carry it's own wind for flowing or do you just fart all the time?"
(After AC) "Ooh, I didn't know villains coming back from the dead had time to put on make-up."

I'll disagree with "Darth Vader-esqueness". Vader was a leader-type character, Sephy is an evil evangelist at best.

Quote (Ruin's Fate)

I don't think it would suit Kefka to hide his power either, I just can't wrap my head around why Gestahl would grant such an obvious whackjob so much power, and then expect everything to turn out ok. I know that Gestahl is evil too, but he's level-headed and had to understand what he was doing.

According to dialogue by easily missable imperial guards Kefka was an honorable man and a trusted general before his magitek infusion. And a brave warrior, IIRC.
Gestahl didn't lock him up as precaution, because he was megalomaniac himself, even if he did appear saner than Kefka and the clown was probably a total suck-up to Gestahl right up to the backstabbing moment.

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

"If you retort against this, so help me God I'll shove any part of your anatomy I can find into some other part. Figuratively, of course." - Josh

"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 5th July 2009 07:59)

I'll disagree with "Darth Vader-esqueness". Vader was a leader-type character, Sephy is an evil evangelist at best.

Yes, but I didn't say they were both leaders. I said they were both cold and calculating. Him being a leader is not a characteristic, it's a job title.

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Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (SilverMaduin @ 5th July 2009 08:59)

"Mama's boy!"
"Cool sword, why doesn't it bend sideways, though?"
"Does your hair carry it's own wind for flowing or do you just fart all the time?"
(After AC) "Ooh, I didn't know villains coming back from the dead had time to put on make-up."

Hmm, yeah I agree with you on the AC front, but those other ones don't really apply. The only time I remember his hair blowing in FFVII was because of the massive fire he'd started in Nibelheim. His sword is only stupidly big in the cutscenes. In the battles or the towns it doesn't look too bad; his battle model makes it look like a fencing foil more than a sword. 'Mama's boy' is right on the button, can't argue there.

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Scepticism, that dry rot of the intellect, had not left one entire idea in his mind.

Me on the Starcraft.

I Don't feel pity for sephiroth.
i mean. yeah he was a experimented by hojo, and has a tragic past and whatever.
but so does Vincent, Cloud, Angeal and u dont see these ones wanting to destroy the world of going nuts like him.
vincent slept in a coffin for 30 years. not a good one. but still, he didnt hurt anyone doing so.
Angeal, he had the same experiment as Sephiroth or similar, and he didnt went nuts, yeah, he did kill some guys with his clones and was a little weird, but at the end, he help Zack out, and he was loyal till the end so. doesnt count as bad.
Cloud. well we know what cloud did. yeah he was cold at the beginning, but still he cared about his friends. even if he didnt admit it. he lost his hometown, and parents, was also experimented, and he also had the jenova cells on him, still, he didnt call jenova her mother and want to destroy the world or so.

so. yes. Sephiroth suffered and everything. but he didnt respond to it.. in a good way. for crying out loud. he almost destroy the planet!

he's a cool villian though

This post has been edited by xkereen. on 6th July 2009 00:43

i feel bad for both of them because it was hojo who made them who they are