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Wow, do I hate the music industry. Has anyone else noticed how out of context they're becoming? Yesterday I went to go pick-up a cd and guess how much it cost? $20! wtf?! And they wonder why kids always burn cd's nowadays, but hey! Now they're just filing lawsuits left and right so everyone will HAVE to pay their outrageous prices for a single cd. The music industry already makes billions, they just want to be making tens of billions. Assholes.

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

It costs about 10-25 cents to produce a CD. They make 15 or so dollars of profit per cd.  I can pay 30 dollars and get 100 blank cds and make them myself for much much cheaper.

I'll still buy CDs I want, but I get them second-hand.  $20 for a new CD is ridiculous.

And it gets even better when they try to tell us how burning CDs is taking money away from artists/random employees/etc.  That's a bunch of bullshit.

I wouldn't even mind paying for music downloads if they didn't restrict them the way they do.  The problem is that the recording industry wants to control what music we have access to--if they just wanted us to pay a reasonable amount per download, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but the few pay-per-download sites that exist have a very limited selection of music.

</rant>

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

if it really effects you to the point of pissed off-ness, declare a boycott. Get a bunch of people from your town to just protest and boycott buying cd's (though, that sounds pretty tough)

The fact is that the artists themselves make very little money from the albums themselves. All the profit of the band comes from live concerts and appearances. So, be mad at the band if you want, but the real villain is the music company that has that band under it's label. 20 bucks is pretty unreasonable for a round piece of laser coded plastic. But, if there's a Best Buy near you, they still offer cd's at a halfway decent price of 14 and 15 bucks.

and what the RIAA is doing by bringing lawsuits to downloaders of music is so full of shit. First of all, they aren't going to get everyone who downloads music. Not even get half of them. There's an estimated 7 million users on Kazaa, Grokster, or other free download services. If they can even get half of them, I'll be surprised. I ran across a news bit (i forget the link though ) that said to get all the downloaders, it would take until 2050. I personally don't fear about getting slapped with a lawsuit anytime soon, so I keep using Grokster continuously. And if they ever do "catch me", they'd never take me alive. Thing is, they think that they're losing business with all the downloading. But the answer to that is not by throwing your lawyers at that person.

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"When I turn the page
The corner bends into the perfect dog ear
As if the words knew I'd need them again
But at the time, I didn't see it."

~"This Ain't a Surfin' Movie" - Minus the Bear

I heard Kazaa was told that if thier users have more than 600 files of downloaded content, the user will be arrested. The fact is that you can burn discs. Also, I'm wondering if this includes burned discs or just files on the computer itself. I also heard that when these crimes are commited, they can confinscate EVERYTHING involved in your downloading. The computer, the house it was downloaded in. I also heard they put you on probation from computers and touch tone telephones untill your 18th birthday, should you be a minor. They can fine you ridiculous amounts of money.

It's really bullshit how capitalism makes money-grubbing consumer whores out of us.

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At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

So don't use Kazaa.  There are plenty of other filesharing programs that the RIAA are too stupid to search, or that prevent them from doing so.  Even the latest Kazaa Lite K++ blocks known RIAA IPs.

If you look carefully at the scaremongering stories, so far they've only gone after people allowing files to be downloaded from them.  They can't really track it nearly as well the other way, so if you unshare as soon as you download, you should probably be fine.

But yeah, the RIAA needs to stop crying and realise what the real problem is, i.e. insane profit margins for the people they're protecting.  Wasn't the one of the features of capitalism/competition supposed to be that it drives prices down?  There's little evidence of it doing so in the recording industry.  It's time some record company execs learnt to manage on just one Ferrari a year instead of the three.

The RIAA is just trying to scare everyone into not DLing, and they're doing a good job--my family at home, and my boyfriend's roommate, have all freaked out and deleted their file-sharing software while strongly encouraging me to do the same.  The RIAA wins if everyone's too afraid of being sued to DL music.  They aren't trying to win lawsuits--they're using scare tactics.

Assholes.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

the only reason that cd prices are gooing up is because everyone just burns them now remember when they were only 16 dollars? then they were only makeing a 5-6 dollar profit, yes maybe the cds are cheap to produce but then you have to buy the cases and the lettle pamplet. i think even 20 dollars for a cd is fair think of all the hours of entertainment youll be receiveing. the bottom line is that every business has to make a profit to survive

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chris sotelo

Quote (hiddel @ 13 Aug 2003, 15:07)

the only reason that cd prices are gooing up is because everyone just burns them now remember when they were only 16 dollars? then they were only makeing a 5-6 dollar profit, yes maybe the cds are cheap to produce but then you have to buy the cases and the lettle pamplet. i think even 20 dollars for a cd is fair think of all the hours of entertainment youll be receiveing. the bottom line is that every business has to make a profit to survive

The expense isn't in the liner notes or the case, chief. The expense is in the promotion, which is intangible. You can buy cases for twenty cents apiece, and the cost of printing even the thickest liner notes would be well under a dollar. I've done work with this sort of item before and know well the costs.

Face it, the items are overpriced, and were even when they were all $15 instead of $20.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

In the music industry's defense, though, since the time when I first discovered Napster, I have purchased three CDs. These are within the last two months, since I have stopped using Grokster and similar programs. Their sales HAVE dropped. Sure, they're already raking in the dough, but for their products to go out with no price whatsoever isn't fair to them.

That doesn't mean I like their prices either.

This post has been edited by Neal on 10th September 2003 21:58

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Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

well like i've always said " value is in the eyes of the beholder. " so if you think that there overpriced just dont buy them, but dont steal them.  

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chris sotelo

It's not necessarily the case that it reduces CD sales, though.  In the UK, CD sales are still rising in spite of increased availbility of broadband and use of steal-o-ware.

Some people do download stuff to hear how much they like it, and then get the real thing.  It's sort of like try before you buy.

But I think they're stupid, because I wouldn't buy anything at that price.  See, sales aren't dead, so I think it works out: the people who do buy CDs are paying all that markup for the people who don't.  It's not really fair, but the record companies perhaps end up with a more sensible amount of money.

Yeah, a solution like iTunes is nice, so long as prices are sensible.  But my question is, what use would there be for the recording industry if bands could sign up to something like this instead?  I'd be much more willing to pay in that case, knowing my money is going to more to the artists than some rotten exec.

I don't object to the RIAA's objection to free music sharing as such, but I object strongly to their methods.  It makes me want to pirate things more, to spite them.  Perhaps they could think of caring a teensy bit more for the public's opinion of them.

Yeah but I still don't wanna pay a buck for a song which has no promise I'll like. Apart from that, these buy-your-song software options have limited selections. If you ask me, musicians need to get money from thier t-shirts and baseball hats (which are getting pricey as well) rather than thier record company making money off the CDs. These people don't make the CD, they are a company which fronts the band with publicity, they do little work and recieve a fat paycheck. Most of those people come from privileged backrounds in the first place. A band shouldn't be judged on how well thier CDs are, it should be based on live performances. That way, Henry Rollins would make a lot of money.  

And one more thing, file sharing is more than just MP3, they offer video, software, and many many MANY things that people just don't sale.

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At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

http://www.msnbc.com/news/963391.asp


Read this article.

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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

Record companies are businesses just like any other, and as such, they will try to make as much money as they can. I don't see anything wrong with that.

The fact is that the music we download is the property of those companies and the artists they represent. We can go on and on about how they're 'evil' and they try to suck as much as they can from both the public and the artist, but in the end we are the ones stealing from them, not the other way around. They have a right to try to stop this.

Having said that, though, I do not agree with the method they've chosen. I think we all understand that it would be better for record companies to embrace this technology, rather than try to eliminate it. They may manage to scare people away from KaZaA or whatever, but never everyone. They may even eventually get rid of KaZaA, but other programs will appear. Surely the record companies must know this.

I don't think it'll be too long before they come to their senses. One record company has already lowered CD prices, I think (I don't remember which one), and I believe others will follow.

Piracy will always exist, though. It always has.

This post has been edited by Alexandr on 10th September 2003 14:59

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Always hopeful, yet discontent; he knows changes aren't permanent --
But change is!

in the riaa's defence, salves have obviously dropped, and it can't be blamed totally on economic recession. since the advent of burning, ripping, and (most of all) file sharing, people have really got fewer reasons to buy cds. hell, if you just want the single, you can hop on kazaa lite and download it.

to help you out: at best buy (and some indie music shops), you can still get cds for like 11-15 dollars apiece.

Wrong as the practice of illegal filesharing may be, I reject the repeated assertion (as mentioned in that article, I believe) that it's the same as shoplifting. It's not, and any monkey can see that. If you steal something from a shop, you have it, and the shop doesn't any more. The shop can't sell the item you stole, because it's gone. If you copy something, the original's still there. Yes, it can hurt sales, but it's not even remotely the same thing.

I've never really listened to music much. I know I'm rare in that. I never had a CD player until I had a CD-ROM drive in a PC, and I've never listened to the radio by choice, or watched TV music stations, or bought a tape, or a CD, or anything. But now, if I do hear something I like, I often download it, and listen to it occasionally.

I don't feel bad about that, because:

• I'd never buy the CD anyway.
• I'm not removing anything from anyone else such that they don't have it any more.

i.e., their profits are wholly unaffected by my actions.

It's a little different from distributing things online, and if you read carefully, you'll observe that it's mostly people who (unwittingly or otherwise) allow music to be downloaded from them, especially in large amounts, who are getting in trouble at the moment.

So if you want to be safer and keep downloading, the best thing you can probably do is be that scum of the P2P universe, The Leech. Recent versions of KaZaA Lite and such also have built in measures to protect you a little while sharing, such as preventing people from listing what you're sharing, even though it's still available for people to find in a general search.

Not that I'm trying to help you commit crimes, or anything... I guess it's up to your conscience. I'm inclined not to feel sympathy while record company execs can still put food on the table... of an entire third world nation, but choose to buy another Ferrari instead.

The RIAA is nothing more than a modern day PMRC. Another money grubbing, trouble starting, right wing group interested in limiting the rights of others.

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At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

Quote (AnarchistDream @ 10th September 2003 15:18)

The RIAA is nothing more than a modern day PMRC. Another money grubbing, trouble starting, right wing group interested in limiting the rights of others.

uhm, yeah, because they don't have to feed their families or anything...

LET'S BOYCOTT ALL FOR-PROFIT INDUSTRIES!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!! THEN WE CAN...o...wait...

the riaa is a prime example of a not-a-right-wing-group. if you really think they are right-wing, then you need to seriously redefine your interests; with a name like anarchist dream, you might think you would know at least a smidgen of what you are talking about when it comes to politics/economics. apparently, you don't.

a) it is NOT your right to acquire someone else's intellectual property, whether it is a copy or not, when that property is copyrighted and illegal to reproduce. the key word here would have to be illegal. the riaa is trying to limit our rights...by...preventing us from doing something...illegal...yeah, ok, next point.

you can't honestly believe that the riaa is a conservative group. as a general rule, persons in the music industry are quite liberal (censorship, of course, being the main issue). just because they want their fair pay doesn't mean that they are trying to start trouble.

c) go back to elementary school.

note: i say "fair pay" knowing full well that many people will disagree with me and say that the record industry jacks up prices to an unreasonable level. while that may be true...honestly...only big execs, producers, and the artists themselves (least of all!) really get a lot of money out of it. and that's the way big business works. it's the same in any other capitalistic enterprise in america; why should the record industry be different? so we can get things cheaper?

yes, $20 a cd is outrageous. but that clearly isn't ONLY the record industry: it's the large mark-up that chain stores such as fye and sam goody put on their cds.

All the junk surrounding the music industry just makes Apple Music Store that much more appealing. My dad and I have been buying a lot of songs, and they're mushc cheaper than buying an entire CD. As far as I know, you can buy just about any CD through the Apple Music store for $9.99. The only thing I don't like is that if you buy the entire CD, you can't return songs you downloaded from that CD for a discount or anything when you buy the whole thing. But whatever. I think once a version of Apple Music Store comes out that is Windows-compatible, sales using it will go up quite a bit (This is assuming that the Windows version has not come out yet...it might have when I wasn't paying attention, or something).

--------------------

Hey, put the cellphone down for a while
In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
And hey, put the laptop down for a while
In the night there is something wild
I feel it, it's leaving me

Quote (Neal @ 10th September 2003 16:56)

I think once a version of Apple Music Store comes out that is Windows-compatible, sales using it will go up quite a bit (This is assuming that the Windows version has not come out yet...it might have when I wasn't paying attention, or something).

Nope, not yet. At least not sponsored by Apple. I believe buymusic.com is the current independent answer to Apple's foray. The advertising's even a spoof of Apple's own.

Oh, and Goz, what if the rights AD references are not those to download copyrighted works? What if he's concerned about privacy, or more specifically, the Fourth Amendment? Believe it or not, illegal search or seizure has not been totally thought out yet for the society of the Internet. (I think he's probably whining that his right is to download music, but I have to play devil's advocate here).

--------------------

"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

uhm, yeah, because they don't have to feed their families or anything...

LET'S BOYCOTT ALL FOR-PROFIT INDUSTRIES!!!!!!! YEAH!!!!! THEN WE CAN...o...wait...

YES! Let's boycott all money driven industry! These people can't have children, most of them has vesectomy operations years ago. It should be "for profit" it should be "for-music."

the riaa is a prime example of a not-a-right-wing-group. if you really think they are right-wing, then you need to seriously redefine your interests; with a name like anarchist dream, you might think you would know at least a smidgen of what you are talking about when it comes to politics/economics. apparently, you don't.

I meant that is the sense that all they care about is the conservation, and of course earning, of money even at the expense of bruising the backs of others. You know, not everyone has the money to even pay 10.00 bucks for a CD. Not to say music should be free, but hell, it shouldn't be expensive.

a) it is NOT your right to acquire someone else's intellectual property, whether it is a copy or not, when that property is copyrighted and illegal to reproduce. the key word here would have to be illegal. the riaa is trying to limit our rights...by...preventing us from doing something...illegal...yeah, ok, next point.

Yeah that's right, cut yourself off before I prove this point any further than it needs to go.

you can't honestly believe that the riaa is a conservative group. as a general rule, persons in the music industry are quite liberal (censorship, of course, being the main issue). just because they want their fair pay doesn't mean that they are trying to start trouble.

Once again you yap about the conservative group issue, sure they let pop stars get practicly naked of TV, big deal. I was speaking about finance, which has been what the whole topic was about! They jack up prices of their merchandise, and I really don't see where it's going exept into the new jaguar of the latest rap star. If these people live so extravagantly of of the small cut you talk of them getting, I really wonder how the bulk winner of all this money lives.

c) go back to elementary school

I graduated from the 8th grade and don't have to take crap off of anyone.

Oh and one more thing, put more sunglass smileys up when you try to look cool insulting somone who probly didn't offend you anyway, it's really working!

This post has been edited by Neal on 11th September 2003 17:54

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At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

rangers you know absolutely well what he was talking about -.-;

Quote

YES! Let's boycott all money driven industry! These people can't have children, most of them has vesectomy operations years ago. It should be "for profit" it should be "for-music."

yeah that's right, these people really shouldn't get paid for what they do. in fact, no one should get paid for what they do. instead, we should set up a system in which the government owns everything and oversees distribution of commodities! that way, we'll have a virtually classless system, and everyone will be happy! it's SURE to work, comrade!

honestly. if someone has a talent to entertain millions, they should get paid by millions. "for-music?" give me a break. maybe farmers should work "for-food." construction? that's a money-driven industry. they should work "for the love of building."

Quote

I meant that is the sense that all they care about is the conservation, and of course earning, of money even at the expense of bruising the backs of others. You know, not everyone has the money to even pay 10.00 bucks for a CD. Not to say music should be free, but hell, it shouldn't be expensive.

...

you make it sound as tho the riaa is an association composed of slave-drivers. no, not everyone can afford to pay $10 for a cd. these people don't get cds, sorry. i can't afford to pay for a bentley. am i entitled to one, just because i want one? certainly not. i want to study abroad in japan. unfortuantely, my school is the worst school in the world for financial aid, and i can't afford it. perhaps i should boycott the travel industry, because i want to go to japan, but those money-grubbing bastards won't let me! the ownership of cds is NOT a right, it is a privilege. and if you can't pay for it, you don't have that privilege.

Quote

Yeah that's right, cut yourself off before I prove this point any further than it needs to go.

boy, that one went RIGHT over your head, didn't it? <yawn>

Quote

Once again you yap about the conservative group issue, sure they let pop stars get practicly naked of TV, big deal. I was speaking about finance, which has been what the whole fucking topic was about! They jack up prices of their merchandise, and I really don't see where it's going exept into the new jaguar of the latest rap star. If these people live so extravagantly of of the small cut you talk of them getting, I really wonder how the bulk winner of all this money lives.

remember, grasshopper, you're the one that brought up the "conservative" issue. just to let you know, both conservatives AND liberals like to make money. the "finance" issue is generally not a partisan thing. YOU used the wrong term. i pointed it out. you're STILL using the wrong term.

once again, when someone has the ability to entertain millions, they SHOULD GET PAID BY MILLIONS FOR DOING SO. is that such a difficult concept to understand? and do you really want to know where all the money is going? look at david geffen.

Quote

I graduated from the 8th grade and don't have to take shit off of anyone. 

8th graders who don't understand how the world works should not pass themselves off as activists.

Quote

Oh and one more thing, put more sunglass smileys up when you try to look cool insulting somone who probly didn't offend you anyway, it's really working!

i didn't put that there. i was lettering my points: a), b.), c). of course, is was supposed to be b.) without the period, but unfortunately, that happens to be the code for the sunglass smiley face.

This post has been edited by gozaru~ on 11th September 2003 21:11

Alright, kids. If you can't make your points without insulting each other and turning a once interesting thread into your personal playground, please take it to PM. I don't care who's right or wrong, or whether it's a matter of opinion. Just get off my land.

The music industry is really bad. If they lowered the price on the CD:s, and had a much more variating collection of artists and genres, I bet people would buy loads of discs. Myself, I often buy albums, since I love music and want to have a big record collection, but nowadays when most of the music is the same mainstream sh#t and the prices are so high, I don't buy that much anymore. I always look on Kazaa, Internet shops and smaller record shops after more underground artists, who generally tend to be much more interesting than the 100th Linkin Park-like band.

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People say I'm a slow learner, but I type fast!

Heh the music industry is pretty bad but still gotta listen to some music somehow...Oh yea Tidu-Who where did you go for a cd thats $20? I see cd's here for about half the price

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"If Satan is the prince of darkness, then that would make me the KING!"

Quote (Kuja @ 25th September 2003 15:39)

Oh yea Tidu-Who where did you go for a cd thats $20? I see cd's here for about half the price

Please tell me you live in a country where the currency is twice the worth of American dollars. $10 for a CD is really cheap now, and it was cheap 5 years ago.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

I have never in my life paid $20.00 for a single CD. The majority of CDs seem to be between $13 and $18, in my experience. New CDs are usually promo-priced at $11 to $13, and the new Dave Matthews solo CD was in Best Buy AND Circuit City this week for $9.99.

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Quote (Kuja @ 25th September 2003 14:39)

Heh the music industry is pretty bad but still gotta listen to some music somehow...Oh yea Tidu-Who where did you go for a cd thats $20? I see cd's here for about half the price

The Sam Goody and another local store at the Mall ( both had almost identical prices). Most of them averaged around $16 however. I never see CD's for $10. The cheapest I've see is $13 at Target.

--------------------

The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

Most of the time around here if you want to get any double CDs that aren't just released you're going to pay at least $20. Single LPs cost about $15 on average, the just released albums are usually 12-13, and the only thing you're going to find under $10 are EPs.

I'm not big into downloading music for three reasons:
1. I still listen to friggin tapes (which means nowadays I have to buy the CD and tape it. It's a lot of work, but at least I don't have to worry about ever having my CD book with all my music stolen.)
2. I don't have a computer of my own.
3. (Most importantly) I LIKE owning albums, and feel that the money is worth having the continuity of an album. In the hip-hop world at least, most albums worth having have some sort of concept behind them, and taking the songs out of the context of the album loses something. I remember hearing songs of off Outkast's ATLiens and not being very impressed, but then when I heard the album as a whole I was like "oh, wow, I get it now, this is a great album." I have no problem with file-sharing, but I just think hip-hop fans that do it in lieu of buying albums are missing out.

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Hip-Hop QOTW:

"Yeah, where I'ma start it at, look I'ma part of that
Downtown Philly where it's realer than a heart attack
It wasn't really that ill until the start of crack
Now it's a body caught every night on the Almanac"

"Game Theory"
The Roots