Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

I have always considered that FF series reached a peak between VI and VII.

We all have experimented that "FF feeling" in which we considered having opened a door to a universe where emotions are intense and pure. But for the new releases, the feeling seems to be fading away.

I may be too parcial, but I think the series has lacked a true lead character since Squall. The last one I played, XII, was an excellent game, and I wished all that technology would have been avaible for the VI, but didnt have that "je ne sais quoi" that makes a thing perfect.

Now that we look into the future, I don´t know if they would be able to pull it off, if you know what I mean. I have high hopes for XIII.

I like to imagine, how was in the beginning? I picture myself a Uematsu, bringing his music sheets, coming from a recording with an orchestra laughing with Amano, making jokes about his sketches, Itou (I don´t know if it is spelled right) explaining a complicated leveling system and Sakaguchi trying to order all of those elements to create a masterpiece, with a couple of programmers making notes about those things.

Now, I can only imagine a stressed director receiving phone calls from directors reminding him a deadline dealing with an army of programmers in a huge building.

Can we "retrieve" that feeling into the new titles? I mean, can we see Kain alone longing for Rosa? Celes singing in an opera? Tifa and Cloud looking stardust in a perfect night? A feather fly away?

I know I shouldn´t have posted this here, but I know that only a VI fan would understand.

Thoughts?

You're right. The newer games seem like they're made just to keep the FF fans busy instead of to give a great story full of emotion. Gaming has changed a lot since the earlier days and even with all the new systems out, my favourite is the SNES. It had the best games with the best stories hands down.

I'm not sure that they can achieve what they once had, it seems to have been lost somewhere down the road. I just keep playing the old games xD.

--------------------

Why, hello guys! Haven't been around here in a loooong time!
http://dragcave.net/user/LadyTwi
http://www.backloggery.com/ladytwi

King Eddy

Quote

You're right. The newer games seem like they're made just to keep the FF fans busy instead of to give a great story full of emotion. Gaming has changed a lot since the earlier days and even with all the new systems out, my favourite is the SNES. It had the best games with the best stories hands down.

I'm not sure that they can achieve what they once had, it seems to have been lost somewhere down the road. I just keep playing the old games xD.

I for one, agree with King Eddy. SNES did have the best story lines, characters
and no rip- offs. FFVII did great, as did FFXII, but i personally love the old
games, like FFI, II, II, IV, V VI and Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Seret of
Evermore and the other classics. The only good new games are....Well...None!
Their good in all, but nothing bests the old ones ^ ^

--------------------

Isn't it soooo Cute!?
[img] http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/A...ntine2004-s.jpg[/img][CODE]

its all about the effects and details and the stories get cut out these days


edit: just came up with a phrase.....Have visual, sell a game, but have story, sell a series!

This post has been edited by Johnny_Reb on 10th October 2008 20:03

I'm a HUGE fan of VI, and I just have to say that I really enjoyed XII. In fact, I felt that way about VIII, IX, and X, which means I still have faith in the franchise. I just dislike the FFVII spin-offs and the sell-out games that aren't apart of the main series.

A story doesn't need a "true" main character (um, so are you implying Terra was a main character? That's huge news to me.) to be cool. It just means those stories aren't as traditional.

I think the reason why there's such a huge void between the earlier and later FF games is because the earlier games had a mythical or traditional feeling to them, because they were more simple in animation and the characters felt more like legends than people (perhaps this is because they had limits on the expressions they could make). This doesn't mean that characters like Cecil, Celes, Terra, or Faris were emotionless.

As the graphics improved, the focused shifted a bit. Remember how FFVIII was so weird because we knew what Squall was thinking and how one of the main focuses was the love story? Those earlier limitations were gone, and with more room, they could focus on more things. (Oh yeah, and things switched to CYBERPUNK.) That game set the mold for every FF game after it, in some ways.

The intense emotion is still there in every game, but with the middle ages setting gone, I think the charm of the game changes. And while the older people are all about the good old days because everything else is going to hell, haven't they ever considered that things have changed in a non-negative way?

Now, the gaming industry is kinda going down the "prettier the better, regardless of gameplay or story" path, but the FF series still has hope. I think these thoughts you guys have of video game creation goodness, the stress free and carefully crafted way, are partially inane. The first FF was very rushed and created so it could sell, and I don't know what occurred with the other games.

However, I feel that you guys have the right to feel the way you do. My aim is not to offend anyone, just to state my thoughts as a younger person who loves many of the aspects of the whole Final Fantasy series.


--------------------

I say what I wanna say, I play how I wanna play.

I am really torn. I'm younger, so I played the newer FF's first (FFX first, then FFVIII and FFIX) before the older ones (FFVI, FFIV). I recognize a big difference in the styles of the newer games and the older games, and yet I remain a big fan of both. So, as much as I want to see a return to old-school FF, I enjoyed the newer ones enough that I am more than satisfied with no change. In fact, my greatest hope with this versus thing is that we see two different approaches: one traditional FF and the other new FF.

Honestly, though, I was dissappointed by FFXII. I did enjoy it in some ways, but I was missing a great story and character development. So I hope that the future FF's return to the IV-VI feel or the VII-X style as far as plot and development go.

--------------------

Currently Playing : Final Fantasy V
Most Recently Beat : Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
Favorite Game : Final Fantasy X

The newest CoNcast is up! Have a listen!

the only two i played of the older ones, are of course ff6 and ff mystic quest for the snes. Great games. I am a gigaflare of a fan of ff6. although I think the newer ff6 ideas will folow up after dissidia.

Since they'll already have two of the characters down Kefka and no doubt terra.

--------------------

Kefka's Message of the week: Get off your couch noobs and get my new game Dissidia 012

SNES will always be my fav system (not including GBA, which I have solely for FFIV-VI Advance) because it had the best RPGs ever created. The best Final Fantasys were there (even though we didn't get 5 until PS1, I had played it many times on a ZSNES Emu, and loved it.), plus other timeless games that deserve mention (which they got a few posts above me), Chrono Trigger and Secret Of Evermore (never play Mana, but heard it was awesome).

7 and beyond weren't very good in my opinion. Give me the classics (espescially 6) anyday.

--------------------

"I've got nothing to lose but my life, and I got that for free." - Setzer, FFVI (PSX Remake)

You wanna blame someone, blame yourselves! That's right, I said it! You know who you are! That guy in the third row...yeah, buddy, I'm looking at you.

Seriously though, the decline is really a matter of the culture we live in. Back in the days of the SNES ya gotta remember the two important and interconnected points:

1) Japanese Animation was still a very 'cult' interest in the mid nineties.

2) There was no internet.

The influence of anime in our culture has no doubt played a large part in our perception of the games we receive from the Land o da Risin Sun. The drama present in Final Fantasy IV must have seemed damn near revolutionary at the time, but was it really any different than the melodrama cliches that ran rampant during the fantasty animes of that era? Yahtzee talked about how nostalgia can screw up our perceptions of the past and this 'what happened to the good 'ole days' thread is a perfect example.

In regards to the second point, I italicized it for a reason. It has made a massive difference in our perception of games, if for no other reason than you now had instant access to any information regarding a game before it even hit shelves. All this information would no doubt tremendously reduce any mystery surrounding the games and moving back the first point, it would be easy to find references to the art style, music, characters designs. Anything that may have seemed unique and interesting before now looked bland and same-ey in the vast information universe that is the internet.

But these arguments only really work if the games are as good as their predecessors...that isn't the case here..

As far as I'm concerned, the peak hit in VI. If you want to know why, you can read about it here. Basically, I said story/character-wise, FFVII was a sub-standard anime pretending to be a Final Fantasy game. And you know what...

You guys ate it right up!

Square struck gold with that game and it's all because of those anime fanboys who drool at anything with a spikey-haired character. So pretty much ever since then, they've been giving us bigger and bigger cg anime movies - complete with all their stylistic and plot cliches - because quite simply, we asked for it. So really, we have only ourselves to blame.

Well...not me. I knew how to quit while I was ahead and stopped at IX.

This post has been edited by Narratorway on 27th October 2008 06:05

--------------------

Arts

Farts

Twarts

Quote (Narratorway @ 27th October 2008 06:03)

You wanna blame someone, blame yourselves! That's right, I said it! You know who you are! That guy in the third row...yeah, buddy, I'm looking at you.

Seriously though, the decline is really a matter of the culture we live in. Back in the days of the SNES ya gotta remember the two important and interconnected points:

As far as I'm concerned, the peak hit in VI. If you want to know why, you can read about it here. Basically, I said story/character-wise, FFVII was a sub-standard anime pretending to be a Final Fantasy game. And you know what...

You guys ate it right up!

Square struck gold with that game and it's all because of those anime fanboys who drool at anything with a spikey-haired character. So pretty much ever since then, they've been giving us bigger and bigger cg anime movies - complete with all their stylistic and plot cliches - because quite simply, we asked for it. So really, we have only ourselves to blame.

i agree w/ what u say. i think what happened, just 2 add 2 what u said, is that they duplicated the Cloud-type character too many times. the idea of a depressed, anti-social main character has been overdone.

i guess another thing is that, since FFVII, FF has been mainstream, when pre-FFVII Final Fantasies were sort of cult games.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

My first Final Fantasy experience was FF VII, so I usually tend to compare the others to that and the way that game made me feel, which was pretty good. I loved the depth of the game (as I was mostly playing shooters and fighting games back then) and the length of the game and amount of area I was given to explore.

I know everyone loves the older ones more, but for me I like a kind of magic-meets-technology feel because that was my first feel of the FF franchise and RPG's in general.

Quote (painreaver @ 1st November 2008 13:34)

My first Final Fantasy experience was FF VII, so I usually tend to compare the others to that and the way that game made me feel, which was pretty good. I loved the depth of the game (as I was mostly playing shooters and fighting games back then) and the length of the game and amount of area I was given to explore.

I know everyone loves the older ones more, but for me I like a kind of magic-meets-technology feel because that was my first feel of the FF franchise and RPG's in general.

i personally like Medieval Fantasy more than Sci-Fi Fantasy, but i still think there is a feeling thats above that. i think its still in the new ones, but its stronger in the old ones (i mean I-VII). but i felt it when i played XII and IX, and some others.

i guess ur right. it sort of depends on which u started out with.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

whats annoying me is that instead of concentrating on FFXIII and making it an epic, they've just released 2 new games last remenant, and infinate undiscovery which they should have taken elements of to make XIII thebest FF ever. saying that, the games are probably gonna be immense... but there are some 4- disc 360 games we shall never speak of because everyone gave up halfway through because it was predictive easy.

--------------------

Dear Sephiroth, you say its just an illusion... i say your mums on the game ~

Quote (LeaveTheRonsoProblemToTheRonsoYa @ 27th November 2008 23:29)

whats annoying me is that instead of concentrating on FFXIII and making it an epic, they've just released 2 new games last remenant, and infinate undiscovery which they should have taken elements of to make XIII thebest FF ever. saying that, the games are probably gonna be immense... but there are some 4- disc 360 games we shall never speak of because everyone gave up halfway through because it was predictive easy.

XIII looks really good. i hope it stays true to the FF Feeling.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (BlitzSage @ 28th November 2008 23:33)

XIII looks really good. i hope it stays true to the FF Feeling.

Ummm... I hate to be the realist here..

XIII looks like X, it smells like XII, and it tastes like... well, I haven't tried it yet.

Anyone that wants an FFVI experience is going to be sorely disappointed, I believe.

Many things in the series did peak with the SNES, I have to agree with that statement. In fact, the complete and utter lack of a decent RPG on the Nintendo 64 goes to prove that people were way more into experiencing "pretty" games than they were "epic" games. Hell, we're lucky that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask floated that poor system on into the Gamecube era, where they were REMADE so that everyone could officially forget that the N64 ever really happened.

Proof that as focus shifted to visual, it shifted away from plot.

Quote

FFVII was a sub-standard anime pretending to be a Final Fantasy game. And you know what...

You guys ate it right up

You Sir, Win Sir.

FFX was the epic that hit PS2 and wowed everyone, then XI was a stepchild that a small internet community cared about, and then XII wowed everyone. The way I see it, Sqare's current equation is going to be X + XII = XIII. When in reality, the most god-honest, and accurate answer may actually be that VI + VII = XIII. But I doubt that's where it's coming from.

P.S. - Math is AWESOME!

--------------------

If internal struggles were as enjoyable and glamorous as the self conflicted wars within video game characters, we would all be statues, reveling in perpetual self war. -Me

Play me on Rock Band 2, GH-WT, or any other Xbox GH!
Xbox Gamertag-MeanJerry

Quote (leilong @ 30th November 2008 21:52)

Quote (BlitzSage @ 28th November 2008 23:33)

XIII looks really good. i hope it stays true to the FF Feeling.

Ummm... I hate to be the realist here..

XIII looks like X, it smells like XII, and it tastes like... well, I haven't tried it yet.

Anyone that wants an FFVI experience is going to be sorely disappointed, I believe.

Many things in the series did peak with the SNES, I have to agree with that statement. In fact, the complete and utter lack of a decent RPG on the Nintendo 64 goes to prove that people were way more into experiencing "pretty" games than they were "epic" games. Hell, we're lucky that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask floated that poor system on into the Gamecube era, where they were REMADE so that everyone could officially forget that the N64 ever really happened.

Proof that as focus shifted to visual, it shifted away from plot.

Quote

FFVII was a sub-standard anime pretending to be a Final Fantasy game. And you know what...

You guys ate it right up

You Sir, Win Sir.

FFX was the epic that hit PS2 and wowed everyone, then XI was a stepchild that a small internet community cared about, and then XII wowed everyone. The way I see it, Sqare's current equation is going to be X + XII = XIII. When in reality, the most god-honest, and accurate answer may actually be that VI + VII = XIII. But I doubt that's where it's coming from.

P.S. - Math is AWESOME!

firstly, i said 'hope,' not that it was a definite thing. i actually consider myself a realist. somewhere between being a cynic and optimist, oscillating back and forth between my own conflicting opinions.

secondly, and sadly, "pretty" has often taken precedent over "good." games often are great until u start to play them, where they fall into the gaming abyss. ahem...Force Unleashed...

and about the math, i completely agree. i seriously doubt that any game could add up to VI alone yet alone VI and VII together. another thing. i feel sorry for all the FFVII haters out there, cause u have a long road ahead. bc all the games that come after it will be modeled after it. in my opinion FFVI was the landmark game, but we must realize that the flagship game is VII. its Squenix's golden child.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (leilong @ 30th November 2008 21:52)

FFX was the epic that hit PS2 and wowed everyone, then XI was a stepchild that a small internet community cared about, and then XII wowed everyone. The way I see it, Sqare's current equation is going to be X + XII = XIII. When in reality, the most god-honest, and accurate answer may actually be that VI + VII = XIII. But I doubt that's where it's coming from. 

P.S. - Math is AWESOME!

I don't know about anyone else, but that was the funniest thing I've read all day.

Sadly, I have not played VI, so I cannot speak to its quality. I have played VII onwards, plus Tactics, V, and all currently available (in North America, at least) VII spin offs.

I am of the opinion that some people may have too high of standards. Now, before you go getting your knickers in a knot, let me explain my position. In my experience, the lower my expectations, the greater my enjoyment of a game. Similarly, the reverse is true.

A prime example would be Kingdom Hearts; I rented it expecting it to suck, due to my snap judgments based on the inclusion of Disney characters. Instead, it blew me away, and I am now an avid fan of the series. An extension of this is my love for the Gummi Ship sequences in KH2; I didn't care for them in the original, so the improvements in the sequel were a wonderful surprise and greatly enhanced my enjoyment of it. In all seriousness, if Square were to make a Gummi Ship game that built on the one in KH2, adding new pieces, courses, and possibly modes, I could see myself buying it and loving it.

An inverse example would be either Radiata Stories or the entire Tenkaichi series of DBZ games. In both cases, I was expecting something extremely fun based on previous experiences with similar games (Radiata Stories, at a glance, reminded me of Star Ocean: TTEOT, and the Tenkaichi series followed the quite enjoyable Budokai series), and in both cases I felt thoroughly disappointed. Radiata was so slowly paced that I couldn't really tell there was even a story there, and spent most of my time wandering randomly about hoping to accidentally trigger whatever was necessary to advance. As for Tenkaichi, I found the controls to be completely counterintuitive, which may well have contributed to my feeling that the AI was completely overwhelming, even on the easiest setting (for the record, I'm not generalizing about the entire Tenkaichi series without experience; I played the first and the third one with equivalent results).

In summary, in my experience, the higher the expectations for a game, the greater the disappointment, and while it may not be impossible for a game that we anticipate highly to be good (in my case, Disgaea 3 and Monster Hunter Freedom 2 come to mind), it is certainly more improbable than a game we have low expectations for proving to be better than anticipated. As for how that equates to people having too high of standards, well, hopefully it will make sense if I say that if you're expecting Final Fantasy XIII to be Final Fantasy VI, you will be disappointed.

Hmm... In retrospect, it may have been wiser to have asserted "Peoples' standards are too rigid."

Edit: Also, a point to note: A game we expected to suck can both suck and be better than we anticipated.

This post has been edited by Suunok on 1st December 2008 03:35

Quote (Suunok @ 1st December 2008 03:28)

I am of the opinion that some people may have too high of standards. Now, before you go getting your knickers in a knot, let me explain my position. In my experience, the lower my expectations, the greater my enjoyment of a game. Similarly, the reverse is true.

it seems as if u come from the Yahtzee School of Cynicism, which i do believe is the right approach. i come from the same school, but i am normally optimistic, i just dont let it get me down if they suck.

a prime example is Star Wars. if u loved the originals and where disappointed by the prequels, u shouldnt let it get u down. u should try to differentiate between I-III and IV-VI. if they make 13 and its good, then thats great. if its bad, no big deal. we still have twelve others to play.

whether its good or not, it wont change how good VI or VII is.

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!

Quote (Suunok @ 1st December 2008 03:28)

An extension of this is my love for the Gummi Ship sequences in KH2; I didn't care for them in the original, so the improvements in the sequel were a wonderful surprise and greatly enhanced my enjoyment of it. In all seriousness, if Square were to make a Gummi Ship game that built on the one in KH2, adding new pieces, courses, and possibly modes, I could see myself buying it and loving it.

Ah, but wouldn't you have to lower your expectations to actually love that spinoff? You could be setting yourself up for disappointment.

I agree with your point. Hype before a game release can bring up severe disappointment, but I don't think SE has ever come out and said "oh, our new game is going to be a lot like [insert FF game of the glory days here]". . .but you can correct me if I'm wrong about that. So isn't the pain of disappointment self-inflicted? Do we want every single FF game to be like the ones we love to death? Are we, the old-school gamers who can't adjust to the new style all masochists?

--------------------

I say what I wanna say, I play how I wanna play.

Quote (Harlequin @ 2nd December 2008 02:33)

Quote (Suunok @ 1st December 2008 03:28)

An extension of this is my love for the Gummi Ship sequences in KH2; I didn't care for them in the original, so the improvements in the sequel were a wonderful surprise and greatly enhanced my enjoyment of it. In all seriousness, if Square were to make a Gummi Ship game that built on the one in KH2, adding new pieces, courses, and possibly modes, I could see myself buying it and loving it.

Ah, but wouldn't you have to lower your expectations to actually love that spinoff? You could be setting yourself up for disappointment.

I agree with your point. Hype before a game release can bring up severe disappointment, but I don't think SE has ever come out and said "oh, our new game is going to be a lot like [insert FF game of the glory days here]". . .but you can correct me if I'm wrong about that. So isn't the pain of disappointment self-inflicted? Do we want every single FF game to be like the ones we love to death? Are we, the old-school gamers who can't adjust to the new style all masochists?

Quote

masochists

ha, lol... i guess we are. i suppose if you're a glass-half-empty person, you attempt to always make sure that your glass is always half-filled.

hype is a funny thing. we can excite ourselves too much about a new FF game. we must remember that when FFI first came out, no one saw its success coming. no game is a guaranteed success.

This post has been edited by BlitzSage on 3rd December 2008 00:02

--------------------

Praise Be To Helix!