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Inspired by this post when I nearly changed the entire topic of the thread. XD;

So, like, I know probably not as many men will care because according to my brother men think romance is SILLY, but what pairings do you guys like from FF6? I mean, yes, you can be uncreative and say Locke/Celes, which is fine I suppose, but are there any others?

I like Locke/Celes kinda, Locke/Rachel, Locke/Terra, Sabin/Celes, Setzer/Celes, Setzer/Daryl (or Setzer/Gogo in the possibility that Gogo = Daryl O_o)...Cyan/Lola! XD Seriously, I read a fic once where it was done pretty well...um. I kinda like Gau/Relm (or would the be Relm/Gau?). Edgar/Celes...I guess you could switch that one around too...and and and possibly my favorite ever is EdgarLocke. YEAH SERIOUSLY. Even though it's gay. I know this board is kind of anti-yaoi but I like yaoi. D: (Or, more accurately, shounen ai. It doesn't have to be all sexed up to be awesome! :D) A-and I'll read Edgar/Sabin too. Even though it's weeeeeeird.

BUT enough of my rambling. What about you guys? What are some of your favorite pairings?

...I'm gonna be so embarrassed if this topic only gets like two responses. D:

EDIT: Typos and emoticons make Lockpick go :(!

This post has been edited by Lockpick on 10th June 2008 16:32

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I like Edgar and Celes. I know they'll never hook up, because she's just not into him and his flirtiness, but they look good together! They're the caped blondes.

And who knows, maybe if he worked hard enough, he could get her to like him...a bit.

I think Terra and Locke would've been a good couple. They look good, too.

And this is dumb, but it would have been cute to see Gau and Relm get to know each other better.

Quote (Lockpick @ 10th June 2008 16:31)

...I guess you could switch that one around too...and and and possibly my favorite ever is EdgarLocke. YEAH SERIOUSLY. Even though it's gay. I know this board is kind of anti-yaoi but I like yaoi. D: (Or, more accurately, shounen ai. It doesn't have to be all sexed up to be awesome! ) A-and I'll read Edgar/Sabin too. Even though it's weeeeeeird.

I'm not anti-yaoi...I just don't identify with it. (I don't really read mature romance fics anyway, no matter the sexual orientations of the characters.) I'm sure some girls like it...but I'm not like most. Also, a lot of yaoi is non-canon, and I tend to stick to stuff that is in canon. And I doubt the fellow forum-goers are that conservative. This is the internet we're on, y'know...

(I touched an Edgar/Sabin fic once *shivers*...incest seems really unnatural to me.)

It feels like I'm the only hardcore Locke/Celes fan in CoN. I love the way their relationship progresses throughout the game; it's a struggle for them to understand each other, and I think after the game, it'd still be a struggle. (I hate stories where they automatically marry after Kefka's defeat!) Before they love each other, they have to accept themselves and their mistakes...that's something that's always captivated me, because none of the other relationships have that conflict.

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I say what I wanna say, I play how I wanna play.

I agree with all that about Locke/Celes...on their own they are two of my favorites. I don't know, I've just seen so much of it, it's hard to keep it unique. There's a smaller fanbase, though, for the others I mentioned. You'd be kind of surprised at the dynamics of some of the less popular couples, when you stop to look at them. o_o

And yes. Edgar/Sabin is really, really weird. SERIOUSLY. I like their brotherly relationship much better without romance...but sometimes that's a little hard to find. ^^;

I dunno, I just got the vibe that a lot of people don't like yaoi from reading a few of the topics and things...I don't see any guy/guy fics or art around here, so. ^^;

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Quote (Harlequin @ 10th June 2008 23:19)

(I touched an Edgar/Sabin fic once *shivers*...incest seems really unnatural to me.)

Wait..wasn't the term twincest used to decribe stuff like that(twins comiting incest w/one another)...or maybe it just applies to that Ouran High School anime (In case you havent heard of it, I didn't till a few months ago, there is a set of identical twin guys who act like their into each other...or are they? ...) Oh, I like the Terra/Locke pairing...and I think that Relm/Gau would be cute too.

Yeah, it's called twincest or in specifics for this case, Figarocest. >>

Slightly off topic, but if you really want crazy names for your shippings, you should check out the Golden Sun fandom. It makes no flippin' sense.

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The opera was only performed in English ONCE. T_T

Hey, FF artists! You might want to check this challenge out!

WEBSITE <3

What really irks me about these "pairings" is that in most cases, they're forced onto the characters in order to fulfill some sort of fantasy for the authors, neglecting the characters themselves. That being said, I'll never understand the obsession with "pairing" people into couples, as if they absolutely all have to fall in love. For example, the game clearly puts into context the level of womanizing that is on par with Edgar, which means we have a clear understanding he has no interest in finding that "one" or settling down, but of course that is always conveniently forgotten, written off or replaced with his sudden an inexplicable desire to find the love of his life.

Or worse, pairings that include Shadow! A character designed to be absolutely cold and callous towards anyone and everyone...falling in love? No, I don't care how you present, that just seems like a bad idea and terribly out of character. I cannot, for any reason (and my imagination is fairly broad), imagine a situation where it would seem believable for Sabin and Edgar to fall in love, romantically. Of course, it's not just with Final Fantasy games, it seems this applies to almost anything with a serious fan following.

Now, I don't mean to come off as disrespecting your right to write up whatever your little hearts dream up, by all means, go ahead. Personally, I prefer the way things are depicted in game and don't see any need for relationships to develop.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 11th June 2008 06:28)

What really irks me about these "pairings" is that in most cases, they're forced onto the characters in order to fulfill some sort of fantasy for the authors, neglecting the characters themselves. That being said, I'll never understand the obsession with "pairing" people into couples, as if they absolutely all have to fall in love. For example, the game clearly puts into context the level of womanizing that is on par with Edgar, which means we have a clear understanding he has no interest in finding that "one" or settling down, but of course that is always conveniently forgotten, written off or replaced with his sudden an inexplicable desire to find the love of his life.

Or worse, pairings that include Shadow! A character designed to be absolutely cold and callous towards anyone and everyone...falling in love? No, I don't care how you present, that just seems like a bad idea and terribly out of character. I cannot, for any reason (and my imagination is fairly broad), imagine a situation where it would seem believable for Sabin and Edgar to fall in love, romantically. Of course, it's not just with Final Fantasy games, it seems this applies to almost anything with a serious fan following.

Now, I don't mean to come off as disrespecting your right to write up whatever your little hearts dream up, by all means, go ahead. Personally, I prefer the way things are depicted in game and don't see any need for relationships to develop.

Well said, a couple of romances are OK in Fantasies, but the main themes of the FF games are, in my opinion, adventuring, fighting horrible monsters and flashy magics.

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Broccoli to die.

What's with you people, pairing Relm and Gau together? They have nothing in common, there are no signs of possible interest in the game, I doubt they even like each other since there is no interaction between the two...

Having said that, I vote for Gau/Umaro, Umaro being the civilized one in the relationship ;)

This post has been edited by Silver_Zombie on 11th June 2008 10:07

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You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one...

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 11th June 2008 02:28)

What really irks me about these "pairings" is that in most cases, they're forced onto the characters in order to fulfill some sort of fantasy for the authors, neglecting the characters themselves. That  being said, I'll never understand the obsession with "pairing" people into couples, as if they absolutely all have to fall in love. For example, the game clearly puts into context the level of womanizing that is on par with Edgar, which means we have a clear understanding he has no interest in finding that "one" or settling down, but of course that is always conveniently forgotten, written off or replaced with his sudden an inexplicable desire to find the love of his life.

Or worse, pairings that include Shadow! A character designed to be absolutely cold and callous towards anyone and everyone...falling in love? No, I don't care how you present, that just seems like a bad idea and terribly out of character. I cannot, for any reason (and my imagination is fairly broad), imagine a situation where it would seem believable for Sabin and Edgar to fall in love, romantically. Of course, it's not just with Final Fantasy games, it seems this applies to almost anything with a serious fan following.

Now, I don't mean to come off as disrespecting your right to write up whatever your little hearts dream up, by all means, go ahead. Personally, I prefer the way things are depicted in game and don't see any need for relationships to develop.

I feel this is pretty artfully said (especially for it being from DF ), and it contains a lot of what I was thinking about the topic at hand but to which I couldn't quite put words.

I do feel that a lot of these "pairings" really force the author's/artist's vision through a keyhole to make them work; at best, they seem to me to be a stretch, even when relatively well-explained. That's not to say much of "at worst," when they come off as simply sophomoric.

For this game in particular, I don't feel that any pairing beyond Locke and Celes really meets the standard of canon. To make anything else work, there has to be a lot of backstory filled in to make it even close to realistic, and most people I've seen who want to connect these characters don't bother or don't have the ability to make it believable. If that's the case, and they do it anyway, it comes off less as credible fiction and more like self-gratification - and if I want that, I'll do it on my own (oo-er) rather than subscribing to someone else's. That's not to say, again echoing DF, that you don't have the right to try, but it's equaled by the reader's rights to say "but, see, that's just silly!"

On a final note, I find it odd to think that the site itself could be considered "anti-yaoi" just because it's not often brought up here. It seems odd that the knee-jerk reaction is that because you don't see something, that means that there's an implicit rule that says "get it out of here." It could just mean, say, that you're in the minority and that it's more a case of you being in the minority than that you're in the majority and your majority viewpoint is being oppressed.

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 11th June 2008 13:57

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What's with you people, pairing Relm and Gau together? They have nothing in common, there are no signs of possible interest in the game, I doubt they even like each other since there is no interaction between the two...

Having said that, I vote for Gau/Umaro, Umaro being the civilized one in the relationship ;)

Yeah, you got me there. XD I admit they just look kinda nice together, they're the same age, etc. It actually makes no sense. ...on another note, to talk about weird Umaro pairings, check this picture out: http://www.kaleido-sp.com/back-street/in/my/ff6/fur/fur.jpg

(IT'S A JOKE, IT'S A JOKE! Breathe. Completely worksafe, amirite?)

And as far as non-canon goes, it could be a whole lot worse than Edgar/Locke...anybody ever read Kefka/Leo? Sabin/Shadow? Edgar's dad/Banon? (In our yaoi community we call this MrF/B. ^^b) Or worse, Mog/Locke, Mog/Umaro? In Japan Edgar/Relm is pretty popular. >_> (Is it bad that Edgar/Relm weirds me out way more than Edgar/Sabin ever will?)

Calm down, calm down. ^^; Most of those are just crack, anyway. Yeah. Most of them. But some of them really, actually work...

Anyway...at DF:

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What really irks me about these "pairings" is that in most cases, they're forced onto the characters in order to fulfill some sort of fantasy for the authors, neglecting the characters themselves. That  being said, I'll never understand the obsession with "pairing" people into couples, as if they absolutely all have to fall in love.

...

Of course, it's not just with Final Fantasy games, it seems this applies to almost anything with a serious fan following.

That's not always true - but in romance fiction, yeah, it is pretty much the point. However, I've read several good fics that don't involve romance. Romance =/= goodfic. However, romance is interesting to read (not to everybody, but to a lot of people) and a popular genre, because almost everybody has emotional feelings for someone else at some point - even fiction everybodies!

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For example, the game clearly puts into context the level of womanizing that is on par with Edgar, which means we have a clear understanding he has no interest in finding that "one" or settling down, but of course that is always conveniently forgotten, written off or replaced with his sudden an inexplicable desire to find the love of his life.

Well, I don't know so much about that. Edgar, I think, is more complex than he appears in the game - I think all the characters would have to be, simply because you rarely see them do really human things...they're sprites, of course, but when you put them in fiction, you have to give them more depth than that. In fiction they have to laugh and cry and change clothes and and sleep and pee and eat and do all those things real people do. I cannot imagine going through some of the things the characters go through and recovering from it so rapidly. Which is fine for in-game - the focus is on gameplay. But in fiction, some things have to change.

Edgar is a very terrible flirt, yes, but I can also see him being very lonely without Sabin (wouldn't you be, if your lifelong friend left you for ten years?), and maybe wishing he could form some kind of lasting relationship with someone - romantic or not - to help him out a little.

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Or worse, pairings that include Shadow! A character designed to be absolutely cold and callous towards anyone and everyone...falling in love? No, I don't care how you present, that just seems like a bad idea and terribly out of character.

Well, hey, Shadow has emotions too. He claims to have killed them...but then why would he have gone with the group to save the world if he didn't care about anything? As I recall, nobody paid him. He certainly had emotions once - running away from his friend and falling in love with that women to become Relm's dad. He even got scared and ran away from them, too. I think it's another case of things being more complex than they seem on the surface of the game - again, simply because they have to be. Characters in fiction can't always work the same way they do in video games. (That's part of what makes fanfics so interesting!)

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I cannot, for any reason (and my imagination is fairly broad), imagine a situation where it would seem believable for Sabin and Edgar to fall in love, romantically.

Me either, you got me there. XD I'd never write it. But I'm open to reading almost anything.

...and, you know. It's hot.

(That was another joke... See? I'm laughing! ^^b)

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Personally, I prefer the way things are depicted in game and don't see any need for relationships to develop.

Which is fine - but, technically, in game, Locke and Celes even don't reach relationship status - certainly not like Cecil and Rosa in FF4. (Oh boy, FF4 Pairings, that'll be a fun topic - ! ...kidding, kidding.) So if you never explored beyond what the game gives you - which, to me, is entirely the point of fanfiction - then not even those two would be in a relationship...just two people with awkward crushes on each other.

Now, at R51:

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I do feel that a lot of these "pairings" really force the author's/artist's vision through a keyhole to make them work; at best, they seem to me to be a stretch, even when relatively well-explained. That's not to say much of "at worst," when they come off as simply sophomoric.

Well, I think it takes real skill for an author to find two people that you would not normally consider for a pairing, and make it work. To me that isn't stretching it or doing something wrong, it's being creative and innovative in the way they write.

A good example of this is this fic, which is a story "chiefly about the Figaro brothers, and very much about Terra" - in the end, Terra and Sabin wind up in a relationship, which is not something I really thought of before reading that fic, but am now a fan of. It may not work in the game, but the author writes it very well and makes it work in that fic, which I think is a show of skill, and not immaturity. Instead of saying, "Eee, they'd look so cute together!", an author would have to say, "I want to make them work together." It's exploration of the psyche and characters themselves.

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For this game in particular, I don't feel that any pairing beyond Locke and Celes really meets the standard of canon.

But really, so what? Like I said, the point of fanfiction is to explore the canon, deepen it, add to it. If we were purely satisfied with just the canon, then we wouldn't have fanfic to begin with. (Or not nearly so much, anyway!)

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To make anything else work, there has to be a lot of backstory filled in to make it even close to realistic, and most people I've seen who want to connect these characters don't bother or don't have the ability to make it believable. If that's the case, and they do it anyway, it comes off less as credible fiction and more like self-gratification...

...

That's not to say, again echoing DF, that you don't have the right to try, but it's equaled by the reader's rights to say "but, see, that's just silly!"

Yes, there's plenty of bad fanfiction that comes off just like that. I've seen enough Edgar-falls-for-Mary-Sue to last me a lifetime. But good fiction, like the one referenced above, isn't at all sickening to read - it's interesting, and thought-provoking, not silly. Personally, after I finished that fic, I had the worst time trying to get it out of my head.

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On a final note, I find it odd to think that the site itself could be considered "anti-yaoi" just because it's not often brought up here. It seems odd that the knee-jerk reaction is that because you don't see something, that means that there's an implicit rule that says "get it out of here." It could just mean, say, that you're in the minority and that it's more a case of you being in the minority than that you're in the majority and your majority viewpoint is being oppressed.

Well, by anti-yaoi, I mean, you guys don't have any up, the majority of you don't like it, etc - not that you all hate it and would ban me for liking it. It was more of an...eh, broad, statement.

Again, though, to make my point about fanfics and pairings clear: it's all about exploring stuff and adding to the game. No, it's not always "canon", but I think it is interesting to see what different ideas people can come up with - as long as, of course, they're well-written.

This post has been edited by Lockpick on 11th June 2008 18:24

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Quote (Harlequin @ 10th June 2008 23:19)

It feels like I'm the only hardcore Locke/Celes fan in CoN.  I love the way their relationship progresses throughout the game; it's a struggle for them to understand each other, and I think after the game, it'd still be a struggle.  (I hate stories where they automatically marry after Kefka's defeat!)  Before they love each other, they have to accept themselves and their mistakes...that's something that's always captivated me, because none of the other relationships have that conflict.

Just have to comment: I love how many different perceptions there seem to be of this couple.

Personally, I thought that whole thing was a little out of nowhere, and not properly explained in the game. Might just be me, but I really do not understand them. At best they seemed like lovestruck teenagers - Locke giving the dog his bandana, Celes saying, "You're so sweet!" or something (Celes, age 18, to boot - she doesn't seem like a full adult, despite taking on somewhat adult responsibilities, and Locke, 25 years, maybe he's reached a good state of development to enter a serious relationship - but Celes and Locke together working through developmental changes, becoming serious adults together, I just can't see it ; there's too huge of a goal discrepancy). I don't think that relationship is built to last past the boundaries of an adventure--Would fade after a while, imho, when they lack the similar goal of saving the world/whatever. Their attraction to me seemed to be out of pure novelty.

I'm glad they didn't take it further than they did within the limits of the story, though.

But maybe someone needed to fill in the blanks and I'm ttly wrong. Hey, maybe in a fanfic!

This post has been edited by PrinceofDamycan on 11th June 2008 19:04

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"You're so beautiful! ...You're a man...?!"
-man in Troia bar, to Cecil

Quote (Lockpick @ 11th June 2008 13:21)

Well, I think it takes real skill for an author to find two people that you would not normally consider for a pairing, and make it work.

It doesn't take skill so much as audacity.

Since romantic pairings are rarely crucial to the game's plot -- and when they are (Celes/Locke) they're often dubbed "boring" by the 'shipping crowd -- pairings, and pairing stories, are almost always the equivalent of "let's play action figures with FF6" rather than a thoughtful exploration of what could have been. This kind of thinking is endemic among pairing fics and authors, who don't really care for the game per se as they do for the latest two names they can insert a forward slash between, and it's often for people who enjoy shipping wars and OTPs and fandom drama more than they enjoyed the game itself.

I mean, and that's perfectly fine. You're allowed to enjoy what you enjoy. But I've never understood the NEED TO SHIP, and I think fandoms have suffered hard for their fans' obsession with pairings (see Harry/Hermione Ron/Hermione nonsense in Harry Potter).

This post has been edited by L. Cully on 11th June 2008 19:23

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the day he is delivered.


Eternal Sleep, Track 1-1: The Blue Planet

I thought this topic was just for saying which couples you liked best...I mean, we all know that some of the ones that we thought of will never end up together, but it's just for fun.

Sure, there is some bad fan fiction out there that makes no sense, but people have a right to dream.

And by the way, the reason I like Gau and Relm is because they're both the young ones, and I actually can see SOMETHING happening...I don't mean a romantic relationship, but maybe a friendship. Like, maybe Gau could save Relm from monsters...

And, actually, Shadow could be in romantic fan fics...which isn't to say that he'd actually be romantic in them (that just wouldn't fit his character)...but it's possible he still has some emotions left.

After all, he seems to care about Interceptor.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Like in the credits, when he tells Interceptor
to go with the others. He could've kept his dog with him.
Interceptor surely would've stayed.

At Ultimaniac: Oh, hell yeah. Shadow is really, really complex. There's more in there that meet the eye, I think.

At L. Cully: I think maybe it's a combination of skill and audacity. You have to have both to make something like that to work, and sometimes it really is a thoughtful exploration of things rather than just a whim. Not that "just a whim" fics are bad to read or write - they can be fun! - but there's good work out there with unconventional pairings that can really blow a person's mind, you know?

For the record, I think Harry Potter shippers can be a little ridiculous. I lost interest after Book Five, anyway, but I've seen how seriously some people take it, and it's a little frightening. I don't take ships that seriously...I mean, the people aren't even real. XD

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The opera was only performed in English ONCE. T_T

Hey, FF artists! You might want to check this challenge out!

WEBSITE <3

Quote (L. Cully @ 11th June 2008 19:21)

I mean, and that's perfectly fine. You're allowed to enjoy what you enjoy. But I've never understood the NEED TO SHIP, and I think fandoms have suffered hard for their fans' obsession with pairings (see Harry/Hermione Ron/Hermione nonsense in Harry Potter).

amen to that - i have never seen something as scary as harry/hermione shippers...


And partly because we're keeping on topic of FF6 here, can I just say , Sabin/Shadow!

I mean - yeah. I actually know a site where the girl supports this. It's by a lot of her own machinations. But it, like maaaany odd ships, also seems to be out of combined love of the game and love of never-implied and unlikely possibilities.

Which, you know.

Are still possible.

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"You're so beautiful! ...You're a man...?!"
-man in Troia bar, to Cecil

Quote (PrinceofDamycan @ 11th June 2008 19:54)

... But it, like maaaany odd ships, also seems to be out of combined love of the game and love of never-implied and unlikely possibilities.

Which, you know.

Are still possible.

Yes. :D Just because you ship a weird ship doesn't mean you can't love/appreciate the game...it's just a different way of doing so. XD;

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The opera was only performed in English ONCE. T_T

Hey, FF artists! You might want to check this challenge out!

WEBSITE <3

Quote (Lockpick @ 11th June 2008 19:41)

At Ultimaniac: Oh, hell yeah. Shadow is really, really complex. There's more in there that meet the eye, I think.

At L. Cully: I think maybe it's a combination of skill and audacity. You have to have both to make something like that to work, and sometimes it really is a thoughtful exploration of things rather than just a whim. Not that "just a whim" fics are bad to read or write - they can be fun! - but there's good work out there with unconventional pairings that can really blow a person's mind, you know?

For the record, I think Harry Potter shippers can be a little ridiculous. I lost interest after Book Five, anyway, but I've seen how seriously some people take it, and it's a little frightening. I don't take ships that seriously...I mean, the people aren't even real. XD

I think so, too.

Yeah, if you can write a fanfic about a different couple and make it seem...right, then more power to you! I don't think it's right for some people to discourage that sort of thing.

I'm going to have to disagree terribly on one factor: I'm fairly sure that the characters are not "more complex" than you get to see in the game, as the only real material you have to base an knowledge of the characters comes from said games, anything else is conjecture, opinion or interpretations of others projected onto the characters. For example, if you were to say something to the extent of "Edgar is a womanizer because of the void he searches to fill through flirting with women that was created when his Father passed away and his brother abandoned the Kingdom", I would have to say it's plausible, and certainly you can write your "take" of Edgar that way, however it's still imposing your ideas of who he is against what the game shows him to be.

Same with Shadow, I'm afraid. You see, it's terrible business to let the world end around you, if you're an assassin! It wasn't a matter of getting paid, it was a matter of participating out of self-interest. At any rate, we never can know what went on in the mind of Shadow and certainly you're entitled to play with his character, give him a heart and his feelings back, but I simply feel it isn't true to form.

That's the biggest thing I look for in any fiction I read: The author absolutely has to make me believe that I'm reading about the same characters that I played Final Fantasy 6 with. That doesn't mean his interpretation of the character has to match mine exactly, but it should at least stick close enough to the source material that the character is recognizable! Reading a fictional piece about how Shadow cries himself to sleep because of all the lives he was "forced to murder" or about how Celes really just wants to go shopping and spend quality time with Locke might as well be written with entirely original characters.

I think, as I said earlier, a lot of fiction falls into the traps of the "mary-sue" not just in terms of how they treat characters, but the way they "redecorate" the world these characters live in! It's important to remember the context which lead our heroes to their heroic acts. I'm sure there are well written fanfiction pieces somewhere on this vast internet, I also agree entirely that good fiction should explore and deepen the canon featured in the game, or whatever it's target, but that doesn't mean an author should completely disregard it, regardless of how well they "make it work." I could write a completely sensible tale about Celes falling in love with Umaro but the simple fact is that you have to -really- consider the character as she is and work with that, rather than make her into who you want her to be. Otherwise, you're really just working with an original character who may or may not resemble the one who inspired him or her, but is not in fact that character. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it's the only way I know to explain my thoughts.

As has been said: You, of course, can do whatever you want regardless. I won't tell anyone they can't have Locke, Edgar and Mog have an open three way relationship, or that Terra can't marry her magitek armor, just that I'm not at all fond of the idea that "pairings" have to happen, or of "re-imagining" characters just to work around that pairing.

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Okay, but there was a goat!

Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 12th June 2008 02:29)

I could write a completely sensible tale about Celes falling in love with Umaro

Man I wanna read that. ): SERIOUSLY. I will review every chapter. ; ;

Ah, no, joking aside - I understand where you're coming from. But I think the game would kind of want us to fill in a few of the blanks...obviously FFVI doesn't have the deep kind of dialogue that some of the newer FFs do, so you kinda have to use your imagination. People in general are more complex than what we see at a first glance - but that's my own humble opinion.

...I'd still read the Umaro/Celes. Totally.

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The opera was only performed in English ONCE. T_T

Hey, FF artists! You might want to check this challenge out!

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Quote (Dragon_Fire @ 12th June 2008 02:29)

I'm going to have to disagree terribly on one factor: I'm fairly sure that the characters are not "more complex" than you get to see in the game, as the only real material you have to base an knowledge of the characters comes from said games, anything else is conjecture, opinion or interpretations of others projected onto the characters. For example, if you were to say something to the extent of "Edgar is a womanizer because of the void he searches to fill through flirting with women that was created when his Father passed away and his brother abandoned the Kingdom", I would have to say it's plausible, and certainly you can write your "take" of Edgar that way, however it's still imposing your ideas of who he is against what the game shows him to be.

Same with Shadow, I'm afraid. You see, it's terrible business to let the world end around you, if you're an assassin! It wasn't a matter of getting paid, it was a matter of participating out of self-interest. At any rate, we never can know what went on in the mind of Shadow and certainly you're entitled to play with his character, give him a heart and his feelings back, but I simply feel it isn't true to form.

That's the biggest thing I look for in any fiction I read: The author absolutely has to make me believe that I'm reading about the same characters that I played Final Fantasy 6 with. That doesn't mean his interpretation of the character has to match mine exactly, but it should at least stick close enough to the source material that the character is recognizable! Reading a fictional piece about how Shadow cries himself to sleep because of all the lives he was "forced to murder" or about how Celes really just wants to go shopping and spend quality time with Locke might as well be written with entirely original characters.

I think, as I said earlier, a lot of fiction falls into the traps of the "mary-sue" not just in terms of how they treat characters, but the way they "redecorate" the world these characters live in! It's important to remember the context which lead our heroes to their heroic acts. I'm sure there are well written fanfiction pieces somewhere on this vast internet, I also agree entirely that good fiction should explore and deepen the canon featured in the game, or whatever it's target, but that doesn't mean an author should completely disregard it, regardless of how well they "make it work." I could write a completely sensible tale about Celes falling in love with Umaro but the simple fact is that you have to -really- consider the character as she is and work with that, rather than make her into who you want her to be. Otherwise, you're really just working with an original character who may or may not resemble the one who inspired him or her, but is not in fact that character. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it's the only way I know to explain my thoughts.

As has been said: You, of course, can do whatever you want regardless. I won't tell anyone they can't have Locke, Edgar and Mog have an open three way relationship, or that Terra can't marry her magitek armor, just that I'm not at all fond of the idea that "pairings" have to happen, or of "re-imagining" characters just to work around that pairing.

Well, you know, maybe the developers had deeper, more complex stories in mind for the characters, but just weren't able to fit it all in the game.

Like Lockpick said, sometimes you have to "fill in the blanks", and that's what, I think, makes fan fiction...good.

It lets you see someone else's interpretation of the characters and to give them their own problems to work with.

And either way, people will still write fan fiction that DOESN'T come close at all to how the characters really are, we can't stop them...sure, it's annoying, but it's their choice. The best we can do for ourselves is to ignore them, I guess.

Also, you could read someone's own fiction and think the character's personalities don't fit at all, but someone else could think they do perfectly. It doesn't mean either of you is wrong.....well, maybe it does, but the point of fan fiction (or some of it at least) is for enjoyment.

We'll never really know the full stories of all the characters, but that's what makes it so fun to imagine and come up with your own stories!

I like the idea of Locke and Terra at the start of the game, but later I thought they'd be better off having moe of a sibling relationship. Locke and Celes definitely - the opera scene really shows tha it would work, and how she doesn't show being bitter after he sees Rachel. Relm/Gau? They're both certainly eccentric, but I reckon they' have a few years of just being good friends before anything would happen. How about Sabin and Terra? They seem to get on, even though she does mistake him for a bear at one point (I played the GBA version)... And Shadow wouldn't go with anyone, he's not really capable of love right now. Edgar wouldn't settle down - that would make him too boring. And Cyan wouldn't get over his love for Elayne.

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Quote (cathton20 @ 12th June 2008 21:44)

I like the idea of Locke and Terra at the start of the game, but later I thought they'd be better off having moe of a sibling relationship. Locke and Celes definitely - the opera scene really shows tha it would work, and how she doesn't show being bitter after he sees Rachel. Relm/Gau? They're both certainly eccentric, but I reckon they' have a few years of just being good friends before anything would happen. How about Sabin and Terra? They seem to get on, even though she does mistake him for a bear at one point (I played the GBA version)... And Shadow wouldn't go with anyone, he's not really capable of love right now. Edgar wouldn't settle down - that would make him too boring. And Cyan wouldn't get over his love for Elayne.

I agree with most of the things you said.

By the way, I think we were getting off-topic earlier; I THINK this is supposed to be about talking about the pairings you like best.

As much as I wish Celes and Edgar would hook up (they just look good together, standing next to each other), I know it'll never happen.

But Celes and Sabin might...Sabin's kinda like Locke, in that if you replaced him with Sabin in some of the scenes with him and Celes, it might make sense.

Not all of them, though.

But I can definitely see Edgar flirting with Celes a lot.

Quote (Ultimaniac @ 12th June 2008 21:48)

[QUOTE=cathton20,12th June 2008 21:44]But Celes and Sabin might...Sabin's kinda like Locke, in that if you replaced him with Sabin in some of the scenes with him and Celes, it might make sense.

I love Sabin/Celes. :D I don't like her with Locke (for obvious reason, lol) so he works, I think. He is kind of similar to Locke...I think Celes would need someone who was laid-back. She herself seems uptight.

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Quote (PrinceofDamycan @ 11th June 2008 18:59)

Personally, I thought that whole thing was a little out of nowhere, and not properly explained in the game. Might just be me, but I really do not understand them. At best they seemed like lovestruck teenagers -  Locke giving the dog his bandana, Celes saying, "You're so sweet!" or something (Celes, age 18, to boot - she doesn't seem like a full adult, despite taking on somewhat adult responsibilities, and Locke, 25 years, maybe he's reached a good state of development to enter a serious relationship - but Celes and Locke together working through developmental changes, becoming serious adults together, I just can't see it ; there's too huge of a goal discrepancy). I don't think that relationship is built to last past the boundaries of an adventure--Would fade after a while, imho, when they lack the similar goal of saving the world/whatever. Their attraction to me seemed to be out of pure novelty.

I think the whole relationship is pretty obvious through their early interactions; it's clear that they have crushes on each other. You're right when you say they're lovestruck teenagers, because really, both of them are a bit short of it emotionally short of it. They're serious, but just not emotionally stable enough to handle a relationship.

I don't know how long they would stay together after they both took the time to grow emotionally and understand themselves, but I don't think it's novelty. They both had the will to help each other.

From Dragon_Fire

Quote

I'm going to have to disagree terribly on one factor: I'm fairly sure that the characters are not "more complex" than you get to see in the game, as the real material you have to base an knowledge of the characters comes from said games, anything else is conjecture, opinion or interpretations of others projected onto the characters. For example, if you were to say something to the extent of "Edgar is a womanizer because of the void he searches to fill through flirting with women that was created when his Father passed away and his brother abandoned the Kingdom", I would have to say it's plausible, and certainly you can write your "take" of Edgar that way, however it's still imposing your ideas of who he is against what the game shows him to be.

Honestly, they don't have every little second of the game to even explain the nuances of anyone's behavior. If they did that for every character, writers wouldn't have a lot of flexible material, so it wouldn't be as fun to work with. In addition, your example explained a reason why a character (in this case Edgar) might act in the way he does, not describing his behavior. I guess it's all right if somebody wants to mess with the characters, pair them up with somebody else...I wouldn't call it a bad fanfic until the characters were totally out of character. People can ship who they want, and I think that it's wrong to tell people to stop shipping one pairing because they wouldn't work. I like sticking to canon, myself, because it's definitely easier to imagine a relationship that's already in the game.

I would never support Relm/Gau. I have this feeling that Relm would make fun of Gau in whatever conversations they would ever have...I always thought that Relm liked talking to people who were intelligent.

This post has been edited by Harlequin on 14th June 2008 01:28

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I say what I wanna say, I play how I wanna play.

I generally don't do anything but canon pairings and even when I do them it's not a major plot point in any fanfic I write. Generally, the only shipping you see in my work is a boat. Not being truly intrested in the romance subplots I either just run with what's there and shunt it to the background or even just ignore it, but if ever I was to care, I'd try to justify the undoing of a canon pairing and then really justify the non-canon pairing.

I like to think I write for something different than someone X someone else being the entire point of the fic. True, no one reads what I write anyway, but I get to blow things up so it's all good.

At least, in serious stuff. In my poor efforts at comedy, anything will go. Anything at all. Including converting characters into combinations of Jack Harkness and Ace Rimmer...

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It's gotta at least make me believe it could be canon. And in FFVI, there isn't much maneuverability there as far as pairing.

Regardless of how much skill an author has, the author is only borrowing the characters and their personalities from squenix. The characters' personalities have already been designed, and, if squenix wants a couple, then they'll make two compatable personalities. If they don't then there isn't anything there for an author to really work with. At least not enough to convince me.

It's not just that the pairings aren't canon, its because most of the characters don't fit together. I think that there are definately things about a character (minor of course) that this game and most other older games don't get to show us, but FFVI does show us the important parts. It's up to the author to interpret things that aren't included in the game. However, that does not mean that the author can legitimately change personalities that are established in the game.

In my mind, for instance, Terra could never be part of a pairing, simply because her love is not the kinda that can be given to one person. She is going to become an old maid, one of those nice ladies who always gives little kids cookies and sits on the swing on her deck all afternoon. This is based on what I've learned about Terra from the game, and regardless of what relationship the author wants to use her in, it can't coexist with squenix's character design.

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I just don't understand being so strict as to restrict yourself to Absolute Canon. There's not nearly so much fun in that, or I don't think there is. Yeah, good fics can be written based on canon alone, but it seems like it'd be more fun to try something innovative.

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Quote (Lockpick @ 10th June 2008 16:31)

. Even though it's gay. I know this board is kind of anti-yaoi but I like yaoi. D: (Or, more accurately, shounen ai. It doesn't have to be all sexed up to be awesome! ) A-and I'll read Edgar/Sabin too. Even though it's weeeeeeird.

I LOVE Shonen-ai, and to be honest I can't help but see Sabin being with another guy, most the other male characters (Gogo and Mog non-withstanding) show some interest in or show evidence of a past relation with a woman

Sabin however doesn't, even in the flashbacks as far as I remember he and Edgar never talked about women with each other, Sabin ended up living with two muscle bound men and he usually ends up talking to the other men rather than the women

If Gau was a bit older then I think Sabin/Gau would be kinda cute

I love how the biggest argument about these sort of romantic pairings is that the characters weren't developed enough?

Are you kidding? The relationships between these characters and the linear progression of the plot becuase of it is the whole reason I get so bored with the game I've never gotten past the WoB!!!

Heck, giving Galuf a whole, past-hero/king/amnesia backstory in FFV was almost more story than I want in a game.

I think that the fan-ficking is kinda like Calculus: It doesn't really exist because you can't divide by zero... but you know what it would be if it was there. And IMO, FFVI provides ample enough backstory without making very many concrete relationships that the "holes" between many of those "lines" can be easily filled. I do agree however, that some matchups are very non-canon, but compared to some of the other FFs that have such obvious relationship building as say the whole Cecil/Rosa, or the unlikely Squall/Rinoa, or the whole Tidus/Yuna and Wakka/Lulu things, the relationships were left in the air well enough that some pairings could be acceptable.

I don't typically read fanfics, but if I ever did, I'd probably be all for the obscure pairings. I know mention of the Gau/Relm thing piqued my interest in the most basal, "How would you write that to work?" sense.

In the end... IDK. But I think the Calculus analogy is a good one.

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