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Almost every time I've played an RPG, I've been disappointed with the final boss, and also the bosses in general. I always find them not as challenging as I wish them to be. In most of the RPG:s, as the experience and side-quest nerd I am, I level up a lot and look everywhere for all secrets around, and by the time I reach the final boss, I mostly crush him/her in the first try, without trouble.

This is annoying, because I wanted a big challenge at the end. So I just got an idea. Or rather, a thought that might be good...

...What if there was an RPG, where most of the bosses levels/stats/strength etc. always changed compared to the stats of the characters? In a normal game: let's say there was a certain place that was supposed to be really hard, then a player decides to level up about 10 levels, and he finishes the place without healing himself at all. This makes the game turn ridiculous.
But, in this special game: no matter if this player had leveled up 10 levels, he would still get the challenge the creators wanted to give when they made the game.

This sounds good, but I'm aware it has got flaws too. If you make a game like this, what's the meaning of including a level up system? And would it be enjoyable?

But I don't know. That's why I posted this. I'd like to hear your views and ideas on this. Thanks!

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I believe they already tried something like that in FFVIII.  I grabbed a the OSG and at the back of the book, all the ememies had min and maximum stats which I think were determined by the character's levels when they faced them.  I'm not sure about this however.

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I thought they did that in FFtactics.

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I haven't played Tactics, but I know they did this in FF8.  However, they got it absolutely the wrong way round, and regular enemies were toughened up more by it than some of the bosses (they all had maximum levels which you could still exceed with a bit of Sasquatch-style over-levelling, and I think Omega Weapon may have been min 100/max 100, so no effect at all).  The way FF8 implemented it just made levelling up relatively worthless, leaving the character customising to more irritating and dull "gameplay" elements such as stat junctioning.  So any way around, you could still waste your foes easily.

Since everyone loves Tactics, perhaps they can explain how it was implemented in a way that actually worked for that game.  In any case, I think VIII proves that such a system needs to be thought out carefully before being implemented.

I didn't play FFT, but I agree with Tiddles about FF8.  The idea was good, but they way they did it was terrible.  I still walked all over every single boss in the game...but almost got killed in a couple random encounters.

That being said, I think I'd also be a little frustrated if leveling didn't help at all.

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Seeing as you said RPG, not limiting it to FF, have you tried the Lunar series?  The regular enemies stay at set levels, the bosses stats change depending on your level.  I don't mean they are the same level as you, they do things like hp = 40xHeros level, strength = 3xHeros Level etc.  This keeps the bosses hard to beat  without making it lame..

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Quote (Zero_Hawk @ 26 Aug 2003, 18:28)

I thought they did that in FFtactics.

Only for random enemies, not story enemies. Which means that unless you kept your levels low, the last boss was an utter joke.

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Quote (Hanyou @ 27 Aug 2003, 01:34)

Seeing as you said RPG, not limiting it to FF, have you tried the Lunar series?  The regular enemies stay at set levels, the bosses stats change depending on your level.  I don't mean they are the same level as you, they do things like hp = 40xHeros level, strength = 3xHeros Level etc.  This keeps the bosses hard to beat  without making it lame..

I had a hell of a time beating the final boss in Lunar 2: Eternal Blue.  I think changing the bosses' strengths are a good idea, but when leveling up just means more punishment for you, what's the point?

And didn't they do that with Sephiroth in FFVII?

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Actually in Lunar EB the bosses only count up to Level 50.  If you go higher than that then it will be easier.   I am not sure about the bosses in the epilog though.

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"My impersonation of an ordinary person was flawless." - Neal

"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened." - Dr. Seuss

Yes, this does occur with Sephiroth.  FF: OSG has stats on it.  He was still one of the easiest final bosses in FF history, wasn't he?  I fought him once at Level 99, and it was still worthlessly simple.

It'd be nice if there were some way to keep the bosses relatively tough in spite of level, but it's hard to make it work without putting off weak players.  I think if you really want the challenge, maybe you just have to trust yourself to play a deliberately low level game.  Optional tough sidequests and bosses are always good though.