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Quote (Matt @ 25th July 2005 22:12)

But I just wonder why the gun would be the same colour as his armour and cape.

Palette issues. The SNES can only display 16 colors per sprite (one being the transparent color).

His palette has two main shades: purple/grey and brown/yellow. This rather limits the amount of colors Square can use to differentiate between parts of him, so they made his armor, cape, and gun the purple/grey shade (it being the most metallic of the two) and his cloth accessories yellow.

What they could (and should, IMHO; looks better ) have done is make his cape yellow as well. But it doesn't quite fit the "dark mysterious swordsman" feel he seems to have.



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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Matt @ 25th July 2005 22:12)

I've just noticed something else:  what is that tied to his waist?  Could that be a holster?  In the original image, it's definitely a different colour than his hand, so it's not his gauntlet.

I was wondering the same thing in one of my earlier posts. I figured it could be part of some armor (big stretch) or a sheath instead. Really don't know, though.

And no, Siegfried doesn't look any different in any other version of the game.

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Words of Wisdom:

If something can go wrong, it will.

If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.

If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. - Murphy’s Law

Boing! Zoom! - Mr. Saturn

I think it's kind of an easter egg. Like, meant to be there, but concealed for the average joe.

Either way, I think it's a bit too pointed to be a cave fold. It also reminds me of some sort of imperial soldier...

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Just a note: Only the fake Siegfried (the one on the Phantom Train and in the caves of Figaro) mentions his 'swordsman' skills. He might as well be wrong about the real Siegfried's battle style.

In the end, I'm surprised there is even debate; Siegfried's gun has always been clear as a summer's day sky to me, and I can't even not see it in his sprite if I'm strain myself.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

The real Siegfried does have a sword, though, which would probably lead the fake Ziegfriend into saying "hey, I bet he's a master swordsman..."

Just my take on it.

I perfer to think of Siegfried as a gun-toting sword-weilding psycho, which I always though would be a very cool sort of battle style. (Sword/gun combo)

I would have like to of seen gun-wielding characters in this game. But, I'm pretty sure that there really wasn't any guns used, just cannons that fire magic, and lots of advanced machinery (surprising, considering they do have missiles, but I don't recall a single attack that used 'bullets'). I doubt that gun is actually a 'handgun' though, more like a 'magitek gun' if you ask me. Mini firebeams? I love it.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

I know theres a topic just like this (i know becouse i was there), but i searched and i couldn't find it. Anyway look at this!

All i did was invert the orginal sprite.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...wtopic=6878&hl=

Think that's the one you're looking for, where even the better-edited sprites didn't help some people show anything but a shape.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Edit

Really the possibilities are endless. If you look at it long enough it even starts to look like a television remote. Could also be a Cuban cigar

This post has been edited by Cloud_Strife510 on 18th November 2006 05:25

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Quote (Del S @ 18th November 2006 00:06)

http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...wtopic=6878&hl=

Think that's the one you're looking for, where even the better-edited sprites didn't help some people show anything but a shape.

thanks for that.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

Honestly, I've always noticed the gun, but never gave it much thougt. But yeah, you're right, he doesn't fight with it.

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Dead Winter. A nice comic.

Now to clarify I've always seen this as the "gun" I thought maybe it was lariat-esque. or a shotgun. However when No-name made the post, the small part of the gun appeared to be empahsized rather than the whole thing, and it looked a lot like a television remote.

For all we know, it could be the earliest known form of the gun blade. Maybe it's a sabre with a customized hilt, so it looks like he's holding a gun.

But personally I do believe Ziggy has a gun, and on his back he is carrying a katana, or two

This post has been edited by Cloud_Strife510 on 19th November 2006 21:04

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Ok folks..

The black thing that comes down by his leg and in the back.. that looks like ONE big SWORD...you know.. carrying a sword on your back with its sleeve?...

As for the gun, It does look like it, very interesting. You have to remember Narshe guards had guns too.

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"FFII/FFIV is simply the best role playing game ever created."
- 1994-2006

wow that's freaky!

I personally believe it to be a part of his cloak, if it were to be a gun, it looks like its glued to the back of his hand, which would be rather inconvenient if he were to use it in a fight

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Broccoli to die.

Umm, now I'm not a cloak expert, but, if you look at it, its certainly not a part of the cloak. He's certainly holding something in his hand. That's beyond a reasonable doubt. As to what it is?

At this point, I'm going to ask you guys why would Siegfried be holding a Taco, TV Remote, a chunk of his cape, a cuban cigar, a very strange saber with a customized hilt (when he has a 10 foot katana on his back) or a claw-ninja-thing?

I doubt Square was sitting there thinking "Guys, let's think of the most random object we can find and shove it into this sprite's other hand!"

It's a gun. It's rediculously clear it's a gun. That's like saying the Atma Weapon could be a spear. His finger rests on a trigger. His hand is holding it so its off to the side (probably to reduce the amount of pixels used by making it fit in with the cape). I honestly can't see why you guys could think otherwise.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote (Locke_Cole @ 19th November 2006 22:40)

At this point, I'm going to ask you guys why would Siegfried be holding a Taco, TV Remote, a chunk of his cape, a cuban cigar, a very strange saber with a customized hilt (when he has a 10 foot katana on his back) or a claw-ninja-thing?

I doubt Square was sitting there thinking "Guys, let's think of the most random object we can find and shove it into this sprite's other hand!"

It's a gun. It's rediculously clear it's a gun. That's like saying the Atma Weapon could be a spear. His finger rests on a trigger. His hand is holding it so its off to the side (probably to reduce the amount of pixels used by making it fit in with the cape). I honestly can't see why you guys could think otherwise.

Because you honestly can't see it well enough. Show me where his finger wraps around the so-called trigger. In addition, what point would there be to giving him a gun? That makes little more sense than giving him a taco (who knows, maybe he got hungry). Which is what I believe the point they've been trying to make is.

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I fear my heart and fear my soul
Life goes on, it surely will,
Without me and I wonder:
Will I ever see light again?

Life goes on...

It looks like he's holding whatever object in question it is on something attached below the object. I'm pretty sure tacos don't come with handles, albeit I haven't been to Taco Bell as of late.

In addition, as for why he's holding the gun does not matter - its clear that he's holding it, however. After we establish that we can concentrate on figuring out why he's holding it.

First, when he does actually fight you, he does so once as the impersanator (which he hits you with sword 8 times and flees), and then again in the Arena. Now, I'm going to assume the game designers got lazy and didn't give Zieg a 'gun move' - being that there really isn't any. We already know the game was most likely rushed by the piss poor job they did of categorizing Gau's rages, and setting up the veldt, in addition to making Relm's Control a move that doesn't get you a list of 'Special'. I'm going to assume that they didn't quite concentrate so much on the Colleseum's enemies (which they probably figured that not many people were going to fight them anyway) and probably didn't waste a whole lot of time throwing Ziegfried together.

With that said, they probably thought to give him a gun-style move, and instead gave him Shockwave or something for you to use your imagination with and pretend he's using his gun. Also, there seems to be a pouch on that belt-like thing on the side of his sprite. Taco holder? I think not. Ammo bag? perhaps. Just a belt-like thing? Probably.

But if you look at his sprite, he even looks like some sort of magitek-soldier. Him using a gun isn't anywhere near out of question as far as the story line goes.

Is it a gun? Yes.
Is the gun poorly drawn in? Yes.

Discuss.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote

Siegfried be holding a Taco, TV Remote, a chunk of his cape, a cuban cigar,

I was simply making jokes, at how no-Name's arrow appeared to be pointing to a small portion of the sprite that is just a discernible as a pistol as it could be a TV remote. And was not meant to be taken seriously.


If you look at that section of the sprite long enough, you can imagine it as all sorts of things.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

Wow i never noticed that when i fought him on the train... thats cool!

its not a gun because final fantasy 6 isnt set in a time period where they have guns.

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moetsuki
moetsuki
motoranai yakusoku no basho
jouzu ni habataku watashi wo mitsumete

Quote (chou @ 20th November 2006 19:29)

its not a gun because final fantasy 6 isnt set in a time period where they have guns.

first, gunpowder is mentiond in the game
second, when you're looking at the movie in the begining (ps version only( i think))
the narshe guards are firing guns at terra,biggs and wedge when there going on there little "raidingparty"
third, why, oh why is it so strange to most of you that he is or could be holding a gun? I mean, the imposter brags about: being the greatest swordsman, what about the REAL ziegfried? If i was one of them creators and there was only one guy holding a gun in the entire game I would not waste any more time to create an attack for one guy so he would use this attack one time in the game and try to conceal the gun, no?
and finally, my theorie about ziggy's look: he's an ex-imperial soldier(he modified the outfit a little) who had some rank higher then soldier, he probable had a gun( for longrange fight's and if the narshe guards have guns , the empire does so to, n'est pas?), one day he just leaves the army with al of his stuff and starts travelling the world, treasure hunting and swordfighting( along the way he picks up some extra swords( just in case , this probable explains the big one one the back( you cannot call it standard swords in an army))
the imposter could have been an soldier under him who looked up to him and when ziggy leaft the army he did also( after stealing the same uniform (he modified it the same way)) called himself siegfried(why? maybe he wanted some of him in this legend( his name could have started wtih an S)) along the way lost track of ziegfried and just started exploring for himself untill he to is trapped on the train and runs into the "gang"... the end
it's only a theorie but it's a good one, n'est pas?

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They may be monsters, but they're sea monsters. What're they gonna do? Flop around on deck and suffocate at us threateningly?

The appearance of gunpowder, despite the name's synonymity with the word firearm, does not automatically suggest that handguns are developed. Gunpowder has a variety of military uses, most obviously that of cannons ('guns' aboard a ship-of-the-line) and other artillery pieces.

In fact, between first known discovery of black powder (China) and the appearance of the matchlock (European), there were nearly six centuries in between.

However, could someone provide a bit of proof that Narshe guards had rifles? I don't recall this and the enemy pages don't show anything useful. Just a bunch of armored soldiers like the Marshall wielding polearms.

This post has been edited by Elessar on 20th November 2006 21:09

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

The closest to proof is the PS1 FMV's, which depict 2 narshe gaurds fire on an M-Tel suit with semi-auto or breech-loading rifles (They never work a bolt for example and don't go full auto). That doesn't actually contradict anything, but to have them swipe at a war walker with a polearm would look a bit iffy in a very poorly done FMV. In short, FF6 itself has no proof beyond a pretty large assumption from the existence of gunpowder (which only crops up one) that there are guns.

I personally think that adding guns is more than acceptable: for FF6's time period Magic isn't a viable alternative as anything but a heavy weapon, and for it to be remotely balanced and explain why Vector hasn't won (or for that matter how Returners could possibly win invading the empire) there needs to be some sort of guns IMO. Plus, crossbows and the like are fine and all, but there's nothing to really match the fact some bugger 1000 yards away is trying to blow your head off.

Plus I get to make up a whole host of kit based on WW1 era weapons and make Vector look even more advanced because they jump right into Blitzkrieg from line and column warfare.

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Siegfried/Zeigfried is an easter egg and nobody will know the truth about the two, what part they play or anything.

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"FFII/FFIV is simply the best role playing game ever created."
- 1994-2006

Time period? Not applicable - Final Fantasy 6 does NOT take place in the Real World ™.

Also, I don't see why they shouldn't have guns if they have submerging castles and automated factories.

And yes, from the first time I met Siegfried, I thought it was a gun.

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"I fell off the mountain of words at around the 10,000ft mark. Tell my family...they owe me money." -Narratorway

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"We have more, can deliver tuesday." - Del S

Good old CoN

Quote (Del S @ 20th November 2006 17:38)

The closest to proof is the PS1 FMV's, which depict 2 narshe gaurds fire on an M-Tel suit with semi-auto or breech-loading rifles (They never work a bolt for example and don't go full auto). That doesn't actually contradict anything, but to have them swipe at a war walker with a polearm would look a bit iffy in a very poorly done FMV. In short, FF6 itself has no proof beyond a pretty large assumption from the existence of gunpowder (which only crops up one) that there are guns.

Thanks, I was always wondering where this "Narshe has guns" idea came from. This is a rather interesting development, and the consequences had the world not gone to hell shortly after...

But I would like to submit that there is no chance that firearms were in regular military service before this point though, and it's highly dubious that Narshe itself had adequately equipped all of its guards with firearms (given the Marshall).

The biggest problem faced with the pre-existing deployment of firearms in the FF6 world isn't actually industrial or plot-hole explanations (there are all sorts of reasons why the Empire haven't totally stomped all over the Northern Continent, from political to logistical issues), but rather the preponderance of grunt armor. Industrial-era rifles truly make plated armor and close-range warfare a thing of the past, but this is exactly the opposite of what we see throughout the game. Everyone uses a sword and everyone dons armor. This is useless if there was even a basic single-shot flintlock in service.

A second problem is the over-reliance on castles, suggesting that the amount of usable black powder is quite minimal. Cannons made such defenses a thing of the past; that the Castles Doma, Figaro and Imperial still stand would suggest a very short lifetime for the artillery piece. And Vector had to have the capability to build reliable cannons, the Empire's metallurgy is equal or even superior to our present-day processe.

Quote (Del S @ 20th November 2006 17:38)

I personally think that adding guns is more than acceptable: for FF6's time period Magic isn't a viable alternative as anything but a heavy weapon, and for it to be remotely balanced and explain why Vector hasn't won (or for that matter how Returners could possibly win invading the empire) there needs to be some sort of guns IMO. Plus, crossbows and the like are fine and all, but there's nothing to really match the fact some bugger 1000 yards away is trying to blow your head off.

It should be a rather parsimonious explanation that gunpowder was both difficult to come by, and the technology not fully explored. The Empire has no need to advance down this direction, they're clearly focusing on magic. That Narshe has developed this suggests it's a very recent advancement, perfect as a bargaining chip when they enter into an alliance with Figaro.

Although really, it puts the line "combine Narshe's money with Figaro's technology" into question. Then again, that line was always idiotic; at the very least they meant resources, though what resource base a city-state of mines could provide for a Kingdom capable of maintaining order across a mountain range is ludicrous.

Quote (Del S @ 20th November 2006 17:38)

Plus I get to make up a whole host of kit based on WW1 era weapons and make Vector look even more advanced because they jump right into Blitzkrieg from line and column warfare.

Still, what a nutcase scenario! The simultaneous appearance of magi-technology, rifles and Napoleanic tactics, trench-based warfare and already existing tank-class vehicles should have led to quite an interesting war. We would have seen trenches almost immediately superceded by the blitzkrieg, which is even more successful due to the lack of wide-spread (if any) radio technology.

Kefka really spoiled all that. Sigh.

Quote (SilverMaduin)

Also, I don't see why they shouldn't have guns if they have submerging castles and automated factories.

No reason aside from the lack of guns seen? And the preponderance of troops wielding swords?

Castle Figaro was a unique case of technology seen nowhere else. Consider the Ancient Castle, Figaro is likely a relic of the War of the Magi that their Engineers have managed to restore, but not duplicate.
The latter is an interesting point. It provides most of the infrastructure necessary to build the firearm, the machine-forged barrel, high-quality steel for the chamber at least, and when considering the Magitek Armor, easily the necessary precision.

The propellant, on the other hand, seems to be key here. Black powder, smokeless powder, cordite; most require a developed petroleum(or coal) industry that we haven't seen much of from the Imperials. My hypothesis is that while they could go down that route, something found in the Esper World made that kind of advancement unnecessary.

Once the Empire sees how useful massed firearms are though, they'll still need time to design one reliable enough to mass produce. That could take several iterations, at the very least.

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

Perhaps it is a gun that shoots magic like the ones in fft. The magitek armor seems to have a few, and i think it whould make sense with the lightening attack theory.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

Quote (Sabin044 @ 20th November 2006 21:16)

I was simply making jokes, at how no-Name's arrow appeared to be pointing to a small portion of the sprite that is just a discernible as a pistol as it could be a TV remote. And was not meant to be taken seriously.

I didn't take it seriously either. I was simply stating that it couldn't be anything but a gun, and debating that its impractical to see it otherwise.

Quote

Siegfried/Zeigfried is an easter egg and nobody will know the truth about the two, what part they play or anything.

...??? They are not easter eggs, look up the definition of Easter Egg. And we do know the truth. There is an imposter going around called Siegfried and the real Zeigfried is at the colloseum. No other theory makes any sense once you look at it. And that isn't the discussion, on top of it all.

Quote

its not a gun because final fantasy 6 isnt set in a time period where they have guns.

Yes, yes it is. They have cannons, they have giant cranes, they have gunpowder. They're considerably advanced in comparison to even our own technology. Its a medieval-cum-space age type of technology. The gun Ziegfried wields doesn't necessarily shoot bullets, no one ever said that it did. It could be a magitek gun for all we know, and could shoot out thunderbolts. It could even shoot out chocobos, but that isn't the point of discussion.

The man is holding a gun. I don't care why or how. What it shoots, how grossly disfigured it may be, what color it is, whether or not he even uses it, or why Square decided to put it there.

It's a gun.

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"A little tight, but the price was right" - Locke
"Oh, what a Fuddy Duddy" - Relm
"..." - Shadow
"I'm a General, not some love starved twit" - Celes
"Although Edgar showers his attention on the ladies, most are smart enough to pay him no attention. Oh! King Edgar!" - Figaro Castle Inn Attendant

Quote (No-Name @ 22nd November 2006 05:20)

Perhaps it is a gun that shoots magic like the ones in fft. The magitek armor seems to have a few, and i think it whould make sense with the lightening attack theory.

The greatest difficulty with this theory is the lack of Imperial Troops having access to the weapon. Being the first to recreate Magitek, it's ludicrous to believe that anyone else could develop the same technology and miniaturize it without:
1) having Magitek Armour of their own
2) having the Empire create a smaller handheld Magitek firearm first

Both are demonstrably false.

Quote (Locke-Cole)

Yes, yes it is. They have cannons, they have giant cranes, they have gunpowder. They're considerably advanced in comparison to even our own technology. Its a medieval-cum-space age type of technology.

They are as advanced as us in some aspects, better in robotics, but lag far behind in almost every area that counts in terms of civilization. They have no motorized vehicles, automation is lacking, there is no global economy worth mentioning and their aeronauticals are absolutely pathetic. What they have done is leapfrog ahead by discovering a wholly new branch of technology, but that doesn't put them ahead of our society by any means. They don't even have telephones or radio yet!

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

People discussing how realistic something in a fantasy setting would be never cease to amaze me.

Within the Square modern/fantasy worlds, guns tend to be pathetic. FF V Advance's new cannons pale in comparison next to the swords. FF TA, guns are far less powerful and less accurate then blades. CT's guns were made for a mage-type character. FF VIII's Irvine's physical Limit Breaks are far less powerful than Zell's; this is gun vs. FIST. The 'logic' here is that since guns are Back Row OK, they trade in damage potential. Plus, a gunshot makes a smaller wound than a sword slash, or something. In the Square world, guns in no way make armor, swords and castles useless. Remember, we can fire missiles in the very first battle we engage in, so any argument based on that kind of logic is already moot.

FF VI is a world with MagiTek tanks, lasers, robots, airships, conveyer belts, helicopters, you name it. And best of all, Magic. They could've put a magical spacecraft in there and we'd buy it (pulled the trick in FF IV), so when a single odd hidden boss-type character is portrayed by holding a gun, I don't see the point of arguing it's logic.

Also, I'd like the day nobody would apply words as 'ludicrous' and 'idiotic' to fantasizing about a game, but that's probably just wishful thinking from one person.

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The Collapse of Heaven and Earth