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I play the piano, but I'm largely self-taught--I only took lessons for two years, and that was eight years ago. So, I'm working my way through the presto of Beethoven's 'Sonata quasi una Fantasia' ("Moonlight Sonata") and I've come across a notation I'm not familiar with. I was hoping that someone here could help me out.



See the unholy half-note/sixteenth note hybrids? What do those do?

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

I'm pretty sure that it means you should hold down the B and Ds as you play them, ie strike the first B, and hold it until you strike the next one. Same with the Ds. Still, that is a little funky looking, innit?

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Quote (laszlow @ 16th November 2006 13:54)

I'm pretty sure that it means you should hold down the B and Ds as you play them, ie strike the first B, and hold it until you strike the next one. Same with the Ds. Still, that is a little funky looking, innit?

From the recording, that's definitely not it. It almost sounds like you're supposed to alternate sixteenth notes on that B and that D... I guess that fits with the pattern in the rest of the piece, but I can't tell for sure. It goes so darn fast on the recording. :-/

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote (karasuman @ 16th November 2006 14:03)

From the recording, that's definitely not it. It almost sounds like you're supposed to alternate sixteenth notes on that B and that D... I guess that fits with the pattern in the rest of the piece, but I can't tell for sure. It goes so darn fast on the recording. :-/

OH RIGHT! That means you need to rapidly trill the notes, but I don't think it needs to necessarily be sixteenths. Actually, it's more than a half-step apart, so it might be a tremelo instead of a trill. My bad.

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Thanks.

Really, though, after listening to this recording again... Maybe I should just content myself with the first two movements. This piece is insanely fast.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

you hold each half note for two beats. how do you play piano and not know how to count a half note.

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moetsuki
moetsuki
motoranai yakusoku no basho
jouzu ni habataku watashi wo mitsumete

haha the first time i read this i thought you were referring to the legato bridged notes



This post has been edited by john aiton on 16th November 2006 20:29

Quote (chou @ 16th November 2006 15:22)

you hold each half note for two beats. how do you play piano and not know how to count a half note.

They definitely aren't half-notes. How could there be 4 of them in that 4 beat measure? If you have nothing (right) to add to this thread, please don't be so condescending.

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

To paraphrase jlombardi: shut up, chou.

Anyway. I want to play the piano when I've gotten good at drums, and I've always liked Moonlight Sonata. How long would it take to get to that skill level?

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Squenix games completed:

FFIII
FFIV
FFVI
FFVII
FFIX
FFX
FF Tactics: Advance 2
Chrono Trigger
Dragon Quest 8
Dragon Quest 11
Super Mario RPG

Quote (Jlombardi13 @ 16th November 2006 18:54)

Quote (chou @ 16th November 2006 15:22)

you hold each half note for two beats.  how do you play piano and not know how to count a half note.

They definitely aren't half-notes. How could there be 4 of them in that 4 beat measure? If you have nothing (right) to add to this thread, please don't be so condescending.

chou is even more wrong than you think. That movement is in cut time, so it's a 2 beat measure, and the half notes are worth only one beat apiece.

To answer Quad's question... Shrug. I learned the adagio movement (the one you're probably most familiar with) within about a year of starting lessons, but my teacher seemed to think that that was faster than should be expected. I think it probably has to do with how badly you want to learn it.

The second movement isn't too difficult. The third movement (excerpted briefly above) is incredibly fast with a whole lot of notes. I still can't play it...but I'm working on it.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Ahh. Cut time. I don't like cut time.


We have to do those in band They're pretty. But yes, you play them both alternately and quickly, though definitely not simultaneously.

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

when i played the Violin in middle school i LOATHED cut time. our crazy teacher put us in a compition with 5 peices.....all in cut time. i taught myself how to play various FF tunes pretty accurately.


anyway, like lasz said, you have to kinda tremelo that lil bit, but i dont know why you dont just put in a couple of sixteenth notes

go figure

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

You're doing really well if you can keep up like that, after that long period of not playing and only 2 years of lessons. I had 7 years and haven't played in about 10, and I couldn't hope to easily learn that. I didn't even know the answer to your question.

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I had an old signature. Now I've changed it.

Meh, cut time's only a bitch if you have to march it. If you want a challenge, try hitting five on four or seven on four in common time. Now that's tricky rhythms.

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Yeah, that's a shorthand notation for a tremelo. That just means you alternate the two notes for the duration of what one of those notes says (in this case, a half note), and the alternation speed is sixteenth notes.

Kinda strange that it shows up misleadingly like there're twice the number of beats in that unit of time, but that's not the case.

(And chou, it might be a good suggestion for you to think before you type, and to learn to be less arrogant.)

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Laszlow, have you ever heard of Don Ellis? He would take pieces of music and rewrite them in bizarre time signitures like 7/4 or 9/4 or 5/4 and they would actually sound better than the originals! He was most famous for writing in absurd times like 25/16, 17/4, 3(2/3)/4, and one piece that was in both 33/16 and 36/16, alternating. I can send you some music if you're interested in hearing some of his stuff.

But yea, after listening to him for about two years now, I am extremely comfortable in the odd time signitures. During a solo in Jazz Band this year, I had my drummer switch to 7/4 because I wanted to solo in that time. It was amazing. Cut time can be difficult when it's really really fast (a la Ellington or some of the classical pieces), but other than that, it's not too bad.

This post has been edited by Caesar on 19th November 2006 23:45

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Is PJ

I love listening to people play the piano! I think it's the most beautiful instrument out there! I would be confused if anyone said they liked any solo instrument sound out there better than piano! Definitely not the piccolo

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A fox is cunning
a fox is sleek.
I long to have ones
muzzle on my cheek.

Id hug him and we'd kiss
our love would be true.
And he would wisper
"I love you too"
=^_^= A snippet from a lovely and inspiring poem By Due Swann =^_^=

@ Caesar: That's kind of like Tichelli. He wrote a version of Blue Shades and Vesuvius, they're amazing. Vesuvius zones in and out of like,9/8, 1/4 (why would you have a one beat measure) and like, 7/6. It's crazy fun.

This post has been edited by RelmArrowney on 22nd November 2006 04:30

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You're telling me that there's no hope.

I'm telling you you're wrong.

Quote (Caesar @ 19th November 2006 18:43)

Laszlow, have you ever heard of Don Ellis?  He would take pieces of music and rewrite them in bizarre time signitures like 7/4 or 9/4 or 5/4 and they would actually sound better than the originals!  He was most famous for writing in absurd times like 25/16, 17/4, 3(2/3)/4, and one piece that was in both 33/16 and 36/16, alternating.  I can send you some music if you're interested in hearing some of his stuff.

But yea, after listening to him for about two years now, I am extremely comfortable in the odd time signitures.  During a solo in Jazz Band this year, I had my drummer switch to 7/4 because I wanted to solo in that time.  It was amazing.  Cut time can be difficult when it's really really fast (a la Ellington or some of the classical pieces), but other than that, it's not too bad.

Haha, I haven't heard of him, but it sounds very intriguing. I'll have to check it out.

Playing in wacky time signatures is always doable, but you just need to get in the proper mindset for it. It's like when you're in a foreign language class, you have to get into "Spanish mode" or whatever and stop thinking in English so you can understand what the teacher is saying. Same deal with unusual time settings; you just need to get your head to stop thinking in common time and find the right groove.

And I didn't say seven four time, Caesar, I said seven on four. That's taking a single beat and hitting seven counts on one hand while hitting four counts on the other over the interval of the beat. For example, hitting two on three is the same as a quarter-eighth-eighth-quarter-quarter hit on SRLRS (S=simultaneous, R+L = Right and Left). two on three and three on four are staples that anyone ought to understand, but getting beyond that is tricky. The drum captain from the line I was on last year could hit three on four on five on seven using hands and feet. That's just sickening.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

Wow, if I read the forums more I could have helped out here on time. As laz said, it's a two-note trill.

The reason for the notation is because that normal wavy-trill line indicates the written note and the note a half-step (or sometimes a whole-step) above the written note. This "half note sixteenths" notation can be used to indicate a trill of greater interval.