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I know it can't be done,but if u had to pick a special class for ramza to be,what would it be.I personally think he should be a white knight or a holy knight myself.The whole squire thing just doesn't suit him.It be cool to see him fighting alonside delita as a white knight,and delita being a holy knight.If that could happen,they'd both be unstoppable.But what do u guys think he should be?

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Quote from Naruto

Probably Rune Knight. Name sounds cool, I guess.

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I think Squire suits him perfectly. He's still in the academy at the beginning of the game, and after chapter 1 he operates outside of all the religious/political entities that teach their adherents these techniques. It'd be nice to see him learn more Squiresque stuff, though, or maybe add some skills he's learned in other classes to the Squire list.

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Squire is his job because it makes sense...i mean, what could be better than the everyman going against the political machine and winning, and doing itusing his basic soldier skills, no fancy techniques, soul stealing swords or anything else...just pure skill baby, pure skill.

BUT if I could use a special class...it would be white knight...or assassin.

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I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

Ramza's perfect as a Squire, but if other options WERE available, I think I'd go with Black/Dark Knight.

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
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"The most important part of the story is the ending."
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"Peace is but a shadow of death."
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Well Ramza's Squire class is special
ULTIMA, Cheer Up, Yell, Scream.

It should have a different name though, maybe Mercenary, or Valient

Edit

It's actualy be pretty cool if his class changed name by chapter, squire chapeter1, Merc ch.2, valient ch.3, and then one more nae change after you learn ULTIMA

This post has been edited by Cloud_Strife510 on 11th September 2006 02:40

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

I know what you mean, Squire seems like a wimp-job for the games hero. But that's why I make him a Knight and keep his Gutz powers. The Knight will save the world.

As for special classes, I say let him take Cid's place.

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The Brave Knight
Name: Eirikir Lashius (Ramza)
Role: Knight
Age: 23
AA1: Arts of War
AA2: Guts
R: Counter
S: Concentration
M: Move +3
W: Durandal
O: Reverie Shield
H: Grand Helm
B: Grand Armor
A: Brigand's Gloves

Quote (Sam @ 10th September 2006 15:08)

The whole squire thing just doesn't suit him.

I disagree completely. As others have stated the whole squire who saves the world was kind of the point. Delita had lots of fancy titles and is portrayed as the hero in history books. But we know better, don't we?

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

TA beat me to the punch.

Lots of games have some pumped up supercharacter with some awesome character class and flashy specialty moves. If you're looking for that, look elsewhere.

FFT is the story of an everyman overcoming adversity. An ordinary person operating in extraordinary circumstances. I think the Squire class fits the story perfectly.

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Wow, now I change my pick from Dark Knight to leave him as Squire. Excellent points The Ancient and Hamedo.

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

I found Ramza becoming a much better unit when I kept him a squire. It was nice being able to equip Knight Equipment, while still being able to Equip the stat boosting equipment of clothing.

Seirously though, Bracer, Power Sleeve, Twist Headband, A shield and a Knight Sword makes Ramza a powerful Charecter.

Although, I find that switching Twist headband for a better helm makes me have to worry about him less.

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"There are two sides of a coin,I am the thin line between them."

Hmm... You've made some good points about how he shouldn't change into a special class, though mercenary would have been more appropriate a name starting in chapter 2. Personally, I was peeved my first time trying to get him special powers like Agrias and Gafgarion had all throught the first chapter, being very disappointed that none of the Knight's battle skills fit the bill and then I find out the other two were replacement classes for squire and there is no way for Ramza to have those skills. Oh well, at least Squire still isn't as bad as Heaven/Hell Knight(Rafa and Malak's classes respectively).

Playing devil's advocate, I think if Ramza had a special class it should be Zodiac Brave. He would have the Signs command with twelve skills matching the twelve signs of the Zodiac. And yes, I know the Zodiac Braves were idetified as Ajora's disciples and the original Lucavi, but when Rafa ressurects Malak with the Aries stone, she proves the stones can be used for good as well as evil, and please, no jokes arguing that resurrecting Malak was not necessarily a good thing, just because he sucks in battle doesn't mean he deserves to die.

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Quote (Wedge Highwind @ 13th September 2006 09:06)

And yes, I know the Zodiac Braves were idetified as Ajora's disciples and the original Lucavi, but when Rafa ressurects Malak with the Aries stone, she proves the stones can be used for good as well as evil

The "Zodiac Braves" are discovered to be Lucavi. The Zodiac Stones although apparently linked with Lucavi seem to be something more.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

well,i changed my mind people.U all have convinced me that the squire class is more than it seems.Thanks for all ur inputs.

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Can't we get a better mission than this.I HATE CATS!!!!

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If I had to choose a special class for him, it'd be Dark Knight; unfortunately, that wouldn't make any sense and would ruin Ramza's placement in the storyline. Uber-squire is definitely the only true specialty class for Ramza, at least in that it suits him best.

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Playing devil's advocate, I think if Ramza had a special class it should be Zodiac Brave. He would have the Signs command with twelve skills matching the twelve signs of the Zodiac. And yes, I know the Zodiac Braves were idetified as Ajora's disciples and the original Lucavi, but when Rafa ressurects Malak with the Aries stone, she proves the stones can be used for good as well as evil, and please, no jokes arguing that resurrecting Malak was not necessarily a good thing, just because he sucks in battle doesn't mean he deserves to die.

That wouldn't be half bad. He does end up with quite a few of those pebbles by game's end. I just wouldn't want him to turn out to be Mini Orlandu Jr. -- being too overpowered within the confines of the plot would kind or ruin it. The entire point is that he's supposed to be getting the short end of the stick, right?

This post has been edited by Shotgunnova on 19th September 2006 14:28

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Squire is good for him for the fist two chapters but other that that chapter 3 to 4 I think he should be an Arc Kinght

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Thanks Nova, for your support. I agree that Mini Orlandu would be bad, though if you think about it it's not his class, it's Orlandu himself. Sure he has a lot of skills, but he can only use one at a time, so insofar as his skills, he's not much better than Agrias or Meliadoul. His problem is that he starts at a high level with high stats and comes equipped with ridiculously powerful equipment including Excalibur which not only does a lot of damage, but also adds auto-haste, that's what makes him ridiculously overpowered. However, if you put him in a party with Rafa and Malak, the three of them might balance out.

Getting back on topic, I realized that with Ultima, Ramza is the only character who can use the only spell that's learned from being hit by it from an enemy, so Blue Mage may be an appropriate Job for him.

Also to those who say just leave him as a squire, consider this; generic units start as squires, all the main characters from the story other than Ramza have a special class. Why does the main character have the same lame class as generic units? Even if we were to just switch the name and leave the abilities the same, I think that would do justice to make him stand out from generic troops. This is just for fun anyway, it's not like Square is looking at this and thinking they should release a special edition with more accurate translations and a new class for Ramza. Just play along and make up a new class. For those who would argue, refer to my previous post where I initially agreed to the "stay-a-squire" policy, as that will be my response to any qualms you may have.

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Final Fantasy: Warriors of Light

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Why does the main character have the same lame class as generic units?

Late reply, I know, but I think you're missing the point being made here, Wedge. Ramza is supposed to be a generic unit. He's the Robin Redshirt, the unnamed extra, the random soldier #26 character found in so many fantasy/sci-fi plots. He's not some god-moded, 12-sword Omnislash exaggeration; the whole point is that he's like so many "ordinary" troops in history that have been forgotten with time, but upon closer inspection were not ordinary in the slightest. Giving him a special character class would completely ruin this point, as surely

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

as reviving Teta would defeat the purpose of her death.

Tactics likes to be subversive in this way. The bad guys were once good, the good guys were once bad, and most of the characters fall somewhere in between. Heck, in FFTA, the main character ends up being the villain. At its best, it makes you think, doesn't it -- about maybe what you're saying when you call generic soldiers and squires "lame." Maybe you should start thinking about what "the truth" really is, eh? EH??

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Wedge Highwind:  Getting back on topic, I realized that with Ultima, Ramza is the only character who can use the only spell that's learned from being hit by it from an enemy, so Blue Mage may be an appropriate Job for him.

You forgot about the Zodiac summon.

I'd like to see a trend in gaming that follows the archetype set out in FFT for the main hero. A leader by necessity, an average person of no real consequence. I think the world needs heros like that, both in real life and in gaming.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

Quote (Hamedo @ 28th September 2006 07:26)

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Wedge Highwind:  Getting back on topic, I realized that with Ultima, Ramza is the only character who can use the only spell that's learned from being hit by it from an enemy, so Blue Mage may be an appropriate Job for him.

You forgot about the Zodiac summon.

As well as the level 4 elemental spells, Cure 4, Haste 2, Slow 2...and maybe some others I'm forgetting at the moment.

He's definately not the only Blue Mage character.

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"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

I can't truly see Ramza as anything but his Uber-Squire. However, if I could pick a class to use it would be Dark Knight.

Quote

I'd like to see a trend in gaming that follows the archetype set out in FFT for the main hero. A leader by necessity, an average person of no real consequence. I think the world needs heros like that, both in real life and in gaming.

That's one of the reasons I despise FFTA, the hero in TA had no real reason to do what he was doing.

Back to topic
My opinion on Ramza's class name stands
why should he remain considered a squire if he has no affiliation?

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

In chapter1 ramza is a squire to the hokuten, between that time and chapter 2 he leaves the hokuten and becomes a mercenary, by chapter three Ramza is only affiliated with himself and those who follow him.

Well that's my reasoning, although I will say this, squire is more fitting for Ramza than Dark/holy knight/swordsman.

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"Have you ever seen a baby do that before?"

yes i know its not a real class, but I'd subsitute him for a Twilight Knight, which I've had in my head for a while. The perfect soldier using both darkness and light to utilize his or her abilities to the fullest

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Quote (The Ancient @ 28th September 2006 14:01)

Quote (Hamedo @ 28th September 2006 07:26)

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Wedge Highwind:  Getting back on topic, I realized that with Ultima, Ramza is the only character who can use the only spell that's learned from being hit by it from an enemy, so Blue Mage may be an appropriate Job for him.

You forgot about the Zodiac summon.

As well as the level 4 elemental spells, Cure 4, Haste 2, Slow 2...and maybe some others I'm forgetting at the moment.

He's definately not the only Blue Mage character.

Actually, I didn't forget about any of those spells, I'm not counting Zodiac because it's a summon spell, and traditionally those spells are learned in combat so Zodiac may be the only authentic summon spell. I know I didn't word that sentence very well and unfortunately english restricts my ability to come upwith a better way of putting it, but I have my reasons. As for those otherspells, I'm pretty sure you can learn them by accumulating skill points and purchasing them; I honestly don't know what you're talking about Ancient so I'll need you to elaborate on this a little before I can make an adequate counterpoint.

Quote

Quote
Why does the main character have the same lame class as generic units?


Late reply, I know, but I think you're missing the point being made here, Wedge. Ramza is supposed to be a generic unit. He's the Robin Redshirt, the unnamed extra, the random soldier #26 character found in so many fantasy/sci-fi plots. He's not some god-moded, 12-sword Omnislash exaggeration; the whole point is that he's like so many "ordinary" troops in history that have been forgotten with time, but upon closer inspection were not ordinary in the slightest. Giving him a special character class would completely ruin this point, as surely
Possible spoilers: highlight to view
as reviving Teta would defeat the purpose of her death.


Tactics likes to be subversive in this way. The bad guys were once good, the good guys were once bad, and most of the characters fall somewhere in between. Heck, in FFTA, the main character ends up being the villain. At its best, it makes you think, doesn't it -- about maybe what you're saying when you call generic soldiers and squires "lame." Maybe you should start thinking about what "the truth" really is, eh? EH??

How many people really would remember Mustadio, Rafa, or Malak(in Ivalice, not the real world)? Ramza isn't just any random forgotten soldier, he's the true hero who fought the Lucavi, but because the Lucavi were in power and controlled history as it was written, Ramza was described as a bad guy best forgotten. Ramza doesn't have to be a squire to play the role of anonymous nobody, he could have any class as long as it isn't "True Hero of the Lion War" or something like that.

I'd like to note, Cloud Strife 510 has a good point, a squire is by definition the servant of a knight, which works well enough in Chapter 1 when he's in the Hokuten, and for the beginning of Chapter 2 when he works for Gafgarion, but when he splits from Agrias, he really doesn't have any reason to be called a squire because he just isn't a squire anymore. However, I have to say to Cloud, Ramza does have a reason to do what he does; Chapter 1 is all about how he went through an experience that makes him feel guilty about being a noble and he spends the rest of the game trying to rebel against the uncaring nature that seems to be innate to nobles, to redeem himself for the horrible sin of being born rich while the poor suffer around him.

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Final Fantasy: Warriors of Light

I always thought that the player should be able to choose from a few different unique classes that would add abilities over the squire class at different points in the game. Maybe at the chapter breaks. Not only would he get some unique abilities, he would also have a cooler job title.

Quote (Magnus Jasper @ 30th September 2006 18:06)

I always thought that the player should be able to choose from a few different unique classes that would add abilities over the squire class at different points in the game. Maybe at the chapter breaks. Not only would he get some unique abilities, he would also have a cooler job title.

BRILLIANT! Best idea I've heard so far. The only problem is, that's kinda how it already works.

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Final Fantasy: Warriors of Light

Quote (The Ancient @ 11th September 2006 07:56)

Quote (Sam @ 10th September 2006 15:08)

The whole squire thing just doesn't suit him.

I disagree completely. As others have stated the whole squire who saves the world was kind of the point. Delita had lots of fancy titles and is portrayed as the hero in history books. But we know better, don't we?

delita is absolutely a hero - some dirty means, and selfish reasons, but the end results were still good werent they? besides - who likes a complete goody-goody? anyhow - that's off topic.


well, I have said this many times, and i agree with both sides. I would've loved to see ramza as a special class (though I think he should have had his own, not too unbalancing class - you can use tha gameshark to make his skillset for guts the same as holy sword or whatever, but you'll find that it makes the game way easier than it originally was) and at least be named something different. But, the fact that Ramza was a squire did have meaning to it, whether i liked it or not.

my optimal option would be a special job wheel for ramza at the beginning of the game (I've said this many times before) , in which you can choose a base class for Ramza. With like 10-20 options or so, some more powerful, others less powerful. That way you can choose if you want a really strong one, or not, so basically giving ramza as much credit as you would like to, and also give the game a sort of difficulty setting (though the game wasn't hard to begin with).

There are also three Arc Knights - all with different abilities. And Ramza doesn't have the recognition to make him one of those really. If he was to be a special class (which he technically is - because he has unique abilities, and upped stats) it would have to be one that was entirely unique and fitting to him.

This post has been edited by KingDelita on 8th October 2006 02:42

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[img]http://img83.exs.cx:81/img83/2/ramzaanddelita2rayni7wx.jpg[/img]

i personally love his squire tech i mean y complain u get 2 holy knights plus all kinds of other chars so i dun think nothing fits him but squire though learning ultima sux lol

Moderator Edit

Great start, man. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 9th October 2006 18:23

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Live For Everything, Die For Nothing  *The Game

Back to the point about Ramza being the everyman who saves the day, while Delita (who gets so many fancy titles) gets the credit. Ramza was the nobleman, and Delita was the commoner. So the re-written version of history sees the commoner (everyman) rising up and saving the day.

My thoughts on why Ramza is classed as a squire throughout the game.

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