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im probably asking a biased audience (hmmm... lets all look at the name of the site...), but in your own opinion, who do you think made the better bad guy? i cant say i was ever a kefka fan because he kind of carried with him a humorous "madman" kind of vibe, kind of like the joker in batman, and thats a great premise for a villain, but it just doesnt tickle me right.

sephiroth was just so much darker and evil i thought, and i just really dug how he got down. you always knew when he was around, you would hear that one bell keep chiming, and when you saw him, you knew you were in for some bad news. i also was more into the black cape and long gray hair as opposed to the blond hair, fire engine red/yellow suit, and clown makeup that kefka was rocking all the time.

try not to guage it on which game you like better, because i like FF6 more than any game in history, try just to look at pro's and cons of the characters themselves.

and lets hear reasons, people.



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You watch the world exploding every single night
Dancing in the sun, a newborn in the light
Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death
Hello to eternity and live for every breath

Your time will come...

Kefka, no question.  Sephiroth was boring in comparison.

First off, I can't stand cliches and 'ol tall, dark and bleached had that in spades.  He was chucked out of the anime badguy manufacturing plant and it shows.  Not just the look, but the entire attitude just pissed me off.  If there's one think I can't stand about anime in general, it's their complete lack of compeling bad guys.  Most of 'em are arrogant, snobbish and frightfully delusional and Sephiroth is no exception.  These 'qualities' make these characters look very weak in my eyes.  They're only dangerous when they think they are, and as soon you show 'em what really up, theyr're likely to go through some sort of mental breakdown...pathetic.  You kick Sephiroth's ass and he falls apart at the seams cause he never realized he really wasn't all that to begin with.

But then you got Kefka.  He gets flipped the preverbial bird (like your first encounter with him in South Figaro) and has a hissy fit sure, but it's played for laughs.  He doesn't take himself seriously, which is what I liked so much about him.  There's a kind of purity about madness like his.  He's the ultimate evil cause he's the ultimate negative.  His goal, to end EVERYTHING.  All that we know (and don't) about exsistence he wants gone and why?  Who knows and with his kind of personality, who cares?  At least it wasn't the result of some bizarre Norman Bates mother complex.



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Arts

Farts

Twarts

Kefka.  He always struck me as more ruthless and villiany.  I didn't care that his fashion statement was never a fashion trend to begin with, nor that he was always the more comical of the two.  To me, he was simply well-developed and more appealing.

This 'Joker' persona you talk about is also a kind of villian that I am attracted to, just because it's got that menacing 'evil clown' mentality to it.  Like they say, the mask of a clown can signify pent-up aggression.  Guess that's why some kids are afraid of 'em.

That's not to say that I hate Sephiroth (although I don't care much for the character), because his look is more dangerous than Kefka's.  The biggest thing that got me about him was that durned 'Bell' theme.



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~Status Report~

* Completed... Dragon's Head
* Completed... Soldiers of the Empire: Disciples (release pending)
* In Progress/Undecided... Of Love and Betrayal
* Planning/Assembly... Where it all Began

I agree with therandyrhodes. Kefka was more of a joke to me. Sure, he did some bad stuff, but it didn't seem like pure evil or madness to me, just like another ICP escapee. So he poisoned some people, yeah well it's happened a lot in real life, and it wasn't just "pure evil" at the helm.

Sephiroth looked AND played the part. Seph played mind games and was nearly impossible to figure out until the game told you. Kefka, it was more like, "So he wants the world destroyed, and he wants everyone in it destroyed. Nothing more, nothing less." There wasn't any question to his character. He just wanted to kill stuff dead.



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The clouds ran away, opened up the sky
And one by one I watched every constellation die
And there I was frozen, standing in my backyard
Face to face, eye to eye, staring at the last star
I should've known, walked all the way home
To find that she wasn't here, I'm still all alone

-Atmosphere "Always Coming Back Home to You"

Cartoonish Clown Villian vs. A Dead Guy and some clones
That's what you basically get down to. I just went with Sephiroth because I hated Kefka more because he was annoying, and I hated Sephiroth more because he was evil. Sure Kefka was evil, but he was annoying first.

SPOILER ALERT!  Highlight to view:

I learned to hate Sephiroth when you see him burning Nibelheim. There was no prior attitudes except that he was this ultra-powerful mystery person. The first time you get to hate Kefka was the poisoning of Doma (what a parallel). But by then, you already hate him for being annoying.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

[minitruth edit doubleplusungood]

Kefka, in hindsight, had a little less of an Emo outlook, and was a better bad guy, because he succeeded.



This post has been edited by Del S on 9th December 2006 19:32

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"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

Kefka, for reasons already stated above that I don't feel like repeating.

i voted kefka just because he can sick his Clan of Kefka on Sephiroth's silver haired ass and his pathetic clones not to mention he has the power of the 3 statues at his disposal.

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War is for the participants a test of character; it makes bad men worse and good men better. - Joshua Chamberlain

U sir R a n00b >:-( - Cactuar

Kefka.  Strays from the quintessential to become a truly disturbing psychopath, capable of committing mass murder, then laughing at it like a practical joke.  One of the many things that makes FFVI an indelible classic.

Sephiroth was all right, but I must say that he did a shoddy job as a villain.  To be a good RPG villain, in my opinion, is to make the audience hate you.  I couldn't really hate Sephiroth because his evil was more diluted, or at least more pragmatic, than Kefka's.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I love FF7, it really rocks, but...the only problem I have is the last few parts.  Seph never really got me itchin' to beat the game.  

SPOILER ALERT!  Highlight to view:

Sure he killed Aeris, I liked Aeris (though not nearly as much as Yuffie!) and I was sad.

 But after Shin-ra was finished, I lose intrest in the game fast.  I mean Seph wanted to become a god and destroy the Planet...whoopeedoo.  So does everyone else and of course...he failed.

Kefka on the other hand, I like.  Y'know he's evil because he's a clown.  Clowns being the source of all evil.  He was also the only villian that I can think of to actually succeed.  He ravaged the planet, killed lots of people and became a god.  Sort of, but closer then Seph.  Like the greatest comic book villian of all time (the Joker from Batman) he has a very disturbing laugh and treats lives like they were playthings.



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Really Random Quote of the Day: "Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war." - Richard M. Nixon

So if you're done reading this, you know I have nothing to say and you've wasted your time. Thank you come again.

Sephy was a way better bad guy than kefka, kefka was just in it to much being stupid and what not. On the other hand

SPOILER ALERT!  Highlight to view:

Sephiroth was quite the evil person who killed mercilessly and violently, attacking the town, blowing up the earth, ect. kefka the only major thing he did was poison Doma castle, but he got punished for it

Moderator Edit

Please refrain from using the the word gay in an insulting manner.  It may not seem so to you, but it can be quite offensive to other members here at the CoN. - SSJ_Cloud

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"If Satan is the prince of darkness, then that would make me the KING!"

I voted for Seph
Kefka is really cool and funny and all but no baddy compares to Sephiroth, if someone should rule the world it's him  

I have to agree the statement that Sephiroth came out of the anime villians factory. He's the cold calculating guy out to destroy the earth (with a very bishonen hair doo). Whoopee.

Look at me and my pretty boy evil looks. (*girls swoon*)

Kefka on the other hand oozes mania , craziness, and even comes to embody destruction. From the get go, you KNOW this guy was evil and ruthless (and has a horrible fashion sense). He doesn't care though. He's a big joke to everyone but he knows that one day, they'll get it.

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kame, tortue, tortuga, schildkröte, tartaruga, turtle

"Arthur Dent?"
"Yes."
"Arthur Philip Dent?"
"Yes."
"You're a total knee biter."

I can't elieve that my vote broke a tie between these two villains.  Honestly, who could like Kefka?  He's just a walking freak show, no where near as devious and powerful as Sephiorth.  But, everyone's entitled to there own opinion, so that's mine.

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"The Master of Past, Present, and Future has returned."

Definitely Kefka. My first time playing through FF6, I wasn't really sure what was going on. First, Gestahl was supposed to be the big bad guy, and did a bunch of evil stuff, with Kefka as more of his lackey. And suddenly,

SPOILER ALERT!  Highlight to view:

Kefka rebelled and killed Gestahl on the floating continent

and that really shocked me. This guy was evil. But the worst part was Mobliz. That was scary as hell,

SPOILER ALERT!  Highlight to view:

that Kefka would be so evil as to pretty much destroy an entire town, and even worse, killing all those children's parents.

Sephiroth was good, but he was a little stereotypical. Big scary guy with an attitude. Not that he was bad in any way, he was an amazing villain, especially the mind games and killing Aeris (thanks Seph, she was taking up room).

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Lou: There's a couple of guys fighting down at the aquarium, Chief.
Wiggum: Do they still sell those frozen bananas?
Lou: I think so.
Wiggum: Let's roll.

Sephiroth is the underlying overlord of the cosmos. His merciless nature is unrelenting. His mastery and skill will forever go unmatched.

There is a difference between a maniacal miscreant and a subtle fatalist. That difference lies in morality and honour.

Kefka is an unrighteous, selfish, methodical villain. He poisons the water, betrays his king, and has senseless disregard for human life. He is one sad excuse for a supreme enemy. An extremist in more respects than one.

Sephiroth, on the other hand, is a man of principle. He does not flaunt his vast potential, nor does he deny the allure of his dauntingly terrifying past. In ancient times, he would have been king, ruling with an iron fist.

Sephiroth is the both the most distinguished and most vile of all the Final Fantasy villains. He will always be the best!

Eddy



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"How can there be any meaning in the memory of such a being. What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion." -- Sephiroth

tough choose here.
Sephiroth is a big bastard for killing a party member,
Kefka reminds me of Hitler.
I'm not very much into Villens very much.
but if I have to pick just one of them, it would be Sephiroth.
with a high sword in his hands, he a killer.

Quote (Celtic Moon @ 18 Jun 2003, 19:2

Sephiroth is the underlying overlord of the cosmos. He merciless nature is unrelenting. His mastery and skill will forever go unmatched.

...until you get up to like level 45. dont get me wrong, im a huge seph fan, but dont you think youre overselling him just a tad?



--------------------

You watch the world exploding every single night
Dancing in the sun, a newborn in the light
Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death
Hello to eternity and live for every breath

Your time will come...

Not in the least!  

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"How can there be any meaning in the memory of such a being. What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion." -- Sephiroth

I would definitely have to say Seph. I mean yeah he was a bit cliched but you got to admit, controlling the hero and having him help to accomplish your evil scheme- well that's just evil genius.

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"Son of a submariner"
          -Kefka

Kefka.  Square certainly broke the mold when Kefka was created.  Kefka had the power to destroy life at will, and the world was his playground.  He is also still one of the few villains that is as funny as he is evil.  You can't help but laugh at his antics!  

SPOILER ALERT!  Highlight to view:

That is, until he stabs Leo in the chest, massacres the people of Doma with one swift stroke of genius, backstabs his own boss, and reshapes the entire world.

There is nothing more dangerous than an evil clown with no motives.

that was certainly a point i can agree on ^. after reading arguments from both sides, i can now certainly see why people like kefka. i still stick to seph, but kefka certainly was one evil dude. thanks for everyones input on the subject.



--------------------

You watch the world exploding every single night
Dancing in the sun, a newborn in the light
Say goodbye to gravity and say goodbye to death
Hello to eternity and live for every breath

Your time will come...

That is one tough call...let's look at it from different points of vue
POWER : Kefka. I think they can each do really good damage, but Kefka succeed in changing the face of the earth, when Sephiroth only manages to summon the Meteor.
STYLE : tie. They have very different style, and they each are good, and fit to the character, so it's a tie.
PSYCHOLOGY : Kefka. While Sephiroth is a psychopath (wich means he can't tell the difference between good or bad), Kefka is a sociopath (wich means he know the difference, but he just don't care about it); at least that's my interpretation (I'm not a psychologist, so it's a profane opinion).
My vote hereby goes to Kefka, who's also the funniest villain I ever encountered in a RPG.

They both have very evil qualities, but my vote goes to Sephiroth.
Here are some the reasons:
1)  I would rather have a villian after me who doesnt have the World's most annoying laugh.
2)  Sephiroth did evil in ways that made me want him dead, with Kefka, I wanted to kill him because of his laugh.
3)  Sephiroth, if you knew nothing about him, would make you wonder if he is evil or not, with Kefka you know he's evil because he is a clown.

Quote (Mr Thou @ 26 Jul 2003, 09:14)

PSYCHOLOGY : Kefka. While Sephiroth is a psychopath (wich means he can't tell the difference between good or bad), Kefka is a sociopath (wich means he know the difference, but he just don't care about it); at least that's my interpretation (I'm not a psychologist, so it's a profane opinion). My vote hereby goes to Kefka, who's also the funniest villain I ever encountered in a RPG.

You Have your definitions backwards

Quote (Sapphire Falcon @ 26 Jul 2003, 16:47)

3)  Sephiroth, if you knew nothing about him, would make you wonder if he is evil or not, with Kefka you know he's evil because he is a clown.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 26 Jul 2003, 17:08 )

Quote (Mr Thou @ 26 Jul 2003, 09:14) PSYCHOLOGY : Kefka. While Sephiroth is a psychopath (wich means he can't tell the difference between good or bad), Kefka is a sociopath (wich means he know the difference, but he just don't care about it); at least that's my interpretation (I'm not a psychologist, so it's a profane opinion). My vote hereby goes to Kefka, who's also the funniest villain I ever encountered in a RPG. You Have your definitions backwards

Wrong.  They mean close to the same thing. In fact, the terms are generally interchageable.  If we want to get technical here, Sephiroth is a delusional schizophrenic, although showing only a few of the signs of schizophrenia (extreme delusions of grandeur), but also showing traits of antisocial disorder and perhaps borderline disorder as well.  Kefka is simply a delusional sociopath.



( I'm no psychologist, so take this with a MASSIVE grain of salt. Chances are that I'm dead wrong about this. I always am. )



--------------------

~Status Report~

* Completed... Dragon's Head
* Completed... Soldiers of the Empire: Disciples (release pending)
* In Progress/Undecided... Of Love and Betrayal
* Planning/Assembly... Where it all Began

Quote (Zephir @ 26 Jul 2003, 18:13)

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 26 Jul 2003, 17:0 Quote (Mr Thou @ 26 Jul 2003, 09:14) PSYCHOLOGY : Kefka. While Sephiroth is a psychopath (wich means he can't tell the difference between good or bad), Kefka is a sociopath (wich means he know the difference, but he just don't care about it); at least that's my interpretation (I'm not a psychologist, so it's a profane opinion). My vote hereby goes to Kefka, who's also the funniest villain I ever encountered in a RPG. You Have your definitions backwards Wrong.  They mean close to the same thing. In fact, the terms are generally interchageable.  If we want to get technical here, Sephiroth is a delusional schizophrenic, although showing only a few of the signs of schizophrenia (extreme delusions of grandeur), but also showing traits of antisocial disorder and perhaps borderline disorder as well.  Kefka is simply a delusional sociopath. ( I'm no psychologist, so take this with a MASSIVE grain of salt. Chances are that I'm dead wrong about this. I always am. )

Sociopath - someone without a conscience. A conscience is what tells you what is right and wrong.
Psychopath - someone with no regard for right or wrong (basically).

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

WOW, I didn't want to make a whole fuss about this.
I've actually looked into it a little : as Zeph said, both terms were used to caracterize criminals in the 30's, when their motives couldn't be found. They are still used as synonymes in our days. I couldn't find a definition of sociopath in my dictionnary, so...
If anyone want to look into what defines a psychopath, try to look at the work of Robert Hare.
I will finally say this on this matter: when I typed both the words "psychopath" and "sociopath" in Google, I came across a little number of reference to one episode of "The Pretender" TV show, whose definitions tend to go my way. It's likely that I made my opinion when watching this in the first place, because it just made sense to me at the time. Right now, I'm not so sure...but I stand by what I said until I'm proved otherwise by a professionnal.

Anyway, this is not the topic : what I merely tried to say is that, imo, Kefka was well aware that what he did was bad, but did it anyway, while Sephiroth's motives were more subject to controverse, and he didn't seem to have a good contact with reality. I do not try to excuse Sephiroth, please don't get me wrong one more time : whatever way you look at it, both he and Kefka are bad. I just think that Kefka is worst, wich is after all what this topic is all about.

I hope this post ends this : if anyone wants to discuss it furthemore, then start a new topic in the general forum, I will gladly participate.

http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/socio.htm
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=292
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=psychopath&r=2
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sociopath

They're basically the same thing.  The term "psychopath" isn't even medically recognized, it's merely slang for "sociopath".  If you look closely, the two terms are synonyms according to dictionary.com.

I also fear that this may be getting off-topic.

Moderator Edit

I agree.  What began as an interesting related discussion is now just veering into semantic quibbling.  Make a topic in GT or PM if any of you want to continue this further.  Further comments in this thread should return specifically to Sephiroth/Kefka. - Tiddles

Edit

ACK...posted this before I realized that Mr. Thou had replied. Anyway, I like the points you made, Mr. Thou, and though I'm sure there's a medical term for that, I just can't find it. o.o;

--------------------

~Status Report~

* Completed... Dragon's Head
* Completed... Soldiers of the Empire: Disciples (release pending)
* In Progress/Undecided... Of Love and Betrayal
* Planning/Assembly... Where it all Began

Cefca gets my vote with ease.He's just too cool.The way he doesn't take himself seriously and seems to have FUN while murdering things and making my life harder,is just depressing and kind of makes you despair.Which would you rather want near "The red button"?A dark,cliched tall guy who knows what he's doing,or a giggling,dancing psycho who'd just press the button for the fun of it?Not the latter,I'm sure,which make's Cefca oh-so-much-more of villainious quality than *spits* Sephie.

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"Crapola!"-Cefca