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Just got back from it, and it is, hands down, the best superhero movie out there.

I loved all the nice references tossed in there. The entire audience laughed at "I hope this experience hasn't turned any of you off to flying" (they added the fainting spell, too). The spoof of the Action Comics #1 cover was fun. They added the "Return to Krypton" storyline from a few years back. And the hospital room where his uniform was draped over the chair was a nice nod to the image they put in the books for a few months to honor Chris Reeve's death, since they dedicated this movie to him and his wife. The scene with Jimmy and Perry looking at possible front pages is a nice stab at how the movie, for the past 12 years, was trying to be produced as a "Death of Superman" movie (with the added bonus of one of the headlines being "Superman Lives"). They did a good job keeping the suspense up that it might just be so.

Spacey's performance was great. Alot of people were worried he would camp it up too much, but they kept the humor at an appropriate quantity in appropriate places. He did a good job showing Luthor to be an eccentric psychopath without making him a goofy or clownish villain.
Brandon Routh made a great Superman. Instead of trying to make Superman angsty (I'm looking at you, Waid) his emotions and reactions were done subtly and realistically. Loved how they made his Clark Kent an everyman instead of a klutz.
Kate Bosworth had me the most worried, since the most noteworthy roles she had beforehand was a surfer movie. She did a great job, given that all she needed to do was "woman scorned" and "good with kids."
Jimmy, I loved. It's great to see how much he looked up to the Clark half. Clark is the greatest reporter the Planet has, and it always seems that Clark gets little to no credit for that.
The kid's presence was enough to make him cute without being irritating (which has been known to ruin movies). Though the child actor did seem to be playing a part that was a bit younger than he looked.

It's nice to see that a superhero movie can be made without changing origins *COUGH*BatmanBegins*COUGH*, adding powers *COUGH*Spiderman*COUGH*, butchering characters *COUGH*X-Men*COUGH*, or completely sucking *COUGH*BatmanForeverBatman&RobinDardevilElektraHulk*COUGH*.

The entire audience groaned at the joke about there being two dogs, but it was funny after being given a little time to absorb it (and when coupled with the second joke).

People complain and whine about Superman being too powerful, about how he shouldn't be strong enough to lift mountains. But when you see it, it's one of the coolest things you've ever seen.
The special effects of heat vision were done well. Like the Smallville effects without looking like actual flame is coming out of his eyes.
Liked how super-breath wasn't passed off as ice breath.

There is one thing that bothers me about this movie, though (and I'm sure everyone already knows what it is). Superman, the biggest boyscout in the world, has a son. Having a bastard child kind of taints the wholesomeness of the moral standard of comic book heroes. The little recitation he gave at the end was great and done well, but still.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

I hope it'll be as good as you say to me when I go see it. (It's the only movie of recently that appeals to me.)

Hee hee, references.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

My wife will have to be dragged to the theater to see this, but it is definitely one of my must-see movies this summer. I grew up on the Superman flicks, among others.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

I've never been a big fan of Superman, but at least one of my friends is and so I won't, in good conscience, be able to bash it until I see it.

Plus, as you pointed out, it can't be any worse than Hulk

The thing about posting at two in the morning is I tend not to get everything out I wanted.

I went with a buddy of mine, and we showed up two and a half hours early. We were the first in line and got the best seats (middle of the row, half way up). I didn't see very many people that looked like "comic geeks" in the audience. It was mostly "jock types." They were kind of rowdy before the movie started, so I was worried they would ruin it, but they were all fine (except the one person that kept getting up happened to be the guy sitting in front of me). One guy showed up in a low-quality Superman Holloween costume, and one other showed up in a Superman bathrobe. Other than that, there were a few kids wearing S T-Shirts. Though at the end, I did hear some punk seven year old arguing with his mom and refusing to like it solely because he likes Batman better

As for the Death storyline, they SO set comic fans up. Two key characters in the Death storyline are Hank Henshaw and John Henry Irons. I don't think their movie cameos were named, but HH was and astronaut who was saved by Superman during a botched mission, and JHI was a high steel worker Superman saved from falling to his death.

I liked the Luther&Co vs Superman fight, but worry he might come off as a chump to the average movie-goer that doesn't understand the finer points of Kryptonite.

Anyone ever hear the arguement that Superman's not brave because he's invincible? The comic books are chock full of refutations to this, but the scene where he leaves the plane to go back to the Kryptonite-mountain will serve to dispute this to the general public.

Also, loved Marsden's reacton when Superman opened the plane door. That look of "Oh, come on! Would y'all stop that!?"

Though I disagree with Superman having an illigitimate child, they did a good job with it. The little speech he gave to his son was great, and they left it up in the air whether or not he really was until that speech. The prior indications could have been dismissed. Luthor suspected when the kid looked sickly when he whipped out the Kryptonite shell, but the kid is always sickly. The piano could have been chalked up to a sudden jerk in the boat, since it happened at the time the Kryptonian continent was coming up at the time. The door thing was just to tease us. Lois whispering in Superman's ear at the hospital was also there to tease us. It could have been anything. Was she telling him the kid was his? Was she telling him she still loved him? What?

I already know I'm going to see it a few more times. The only reason I didn't again tonight was because I had to work.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

I just got back from seeing this, and I liked it a lot. Like the "little punk" you mentioned, I happen to like Batman a lot more than Superman. So, I wasn't expecting to be very entertained when I walked into this, but ended up being pleasantly surprised. This was one of the best comic-book movies I've ever seen.

The set up was phenomenal. Being familiar with plot devices, I knew there was no way Lois Lane could have a child from someone else if they hoped for sequels. While the idea of Superman fathering an illegitimate child is a little out of character, they did handle it well.

Outside of that, the setup for both the return of Superman and Lex Luthor played out perfectly. They really stayed true to the characters from both the comics and the previous movies. Superman is ever the eager-to-please boy scout who was raised in Kansas. His return to Smallville was great, as was his (and Kent's) return to Metropolis (which they didn't try too hard to distinguish from New York...I'm pretty sure that was Yankee Stadium where he landed the plane...and I'm pretty sure I saw NY insignas on those caps).

They also quickly established Lex Luthor as the only man capable of pissing Superman off. The scene where Superman was shot in the eye was AMAZING, if for no other reason than the innocent look he gave the robber afterwards. That was an excellent contrast to the angry look Superman had upon his return to the Fotress of Solitude, where he found out that Luthor had violated and pillaged his sacred Fortress. Likewise after he leaves Richard's plane and is healed by the Sun, and clenches his fist before returning to Luthor's island.

The rest of the movie was great. The acting was fantastic, the plot was about as good as comic plots involving superpowers can go, and the special effects really made you feel as if the action was real. I worried about that the most, b/c Superman on the plane looked like the Hulk CG all over again, but luckily that was the only time it ever looked that bad.

And I really, REALLY got a kick out of Kumar beating up Superman. And then watching Kumar get crushed by that mountain. Some guy in the audience actually screamed out, "poor Kumar!" during that scene.

Some gripes:

- Did anyone ask where the hell Clark Kent was during that whole time Superman was unconsciouss at the end of the movie? Well, hell, I guess if they can't put 2 & 2 together when they both simulatenously resurface after five years...

- Sucks to be Richard. He asked Lois if she loved Superman, she gave a stern (and dishonest) "no." Then he rescues Lois & the kid (Jason?), then he goes back to rescue Superman, then he drives Lois to the hospital to see Superman. After the guy goes through all this for Lois, what's his reward gonna be? Sorry, the kid's not yours, it's Superman's. Like I said, sucks to be Richard.

- How the hell did Lois Lane drag Superman back to the surface? I know he was weakened by the Kryptonite, but that still makes him 6'4", 250 lbs.

- "Truth, Justice, you know all that stuff." Why did they omit "and the American way!" I know the patriotic fervor has died down, but that is essential to Superman's character. As far back as the 70's, Batman represented the darker, dirtier underworld of American that no one likes to acknowledge, and in a way represents the antihero and counter-culture aspect of America. Superman has always been the exact opposite. He responds to the orders of the President, upholds a clean-cut image, and represents the order, stability, and optimism of America. I'm not exactly the #1 patriot, but I was baffled by the omission of that line.

Anyway, all in all a very entertaining movie. The audience I was with reacted likewise to the same scenes, except there were also some laughs mixed in w/ the groans during the dog scene.

I'm not sure if I'd rank it the best comic movie. Despite thinking it was just OK the first time I saw it, I've really warmed up to Batman Begins. I think the only reason I didn't like it at first is b/c I was expecting a Tim Burton movie. But I went back and watched the Tim Burton movies, and they weren't nearly as entertaining as when I was 8. Though I still like the Burton movies, three viewings later I've reconsidered my opinion of Batman Begins--it might be the best comic movie I've ever seen.

Still, not to get into a pissing contest over Batman and Superman, this was great as far as comic movies go. Having been a big fan of comics growing up, I'm pleased, because most of them suck.

The whole "why can't they figure out Clark is Superman" phenomenon is undoubtedly the dumbest aspect of the entire franchise, but if you can somehow suspend your disbelief and just go with the flow, then the experience can be very enjoyable. I literally got goose bumps when the opening credits began to roll. They did it exactly like the original, with the music and everything. Bryan Singer did a great job.

All in all, it is a great film in my opinion. If you aren't a fan of Superman, then you will probably hate this film. But if you're a fan like me and grew up watching the original films, then you are in for a treat. It's not quite as good as Batman Begins (which is in my opinion the best comic movie ever made), but it's the best Superman movie ever made. And that's saying a lot.

For the next film, maybe they should have Richard as the main villain, along with Lex. Richard could discover that Superman is the real father of his child, which naturally will cause him to be deeply hurt. And then Lex could persuade him to channel his rage into destroying Superman by agreeing to undergo some kind of experiment conducted by Lex, which will allow Richard to embody the powers that Superman has. And then, you have a crazy one on one battle between Superman and a "super" Richard, with Lex orchestrating the plan. What do you guys think? If you found out that your only son was actually the off-spring of your wife's former boyfriend, wouldn't you be outraged? The idea of Richard turning into a villain is a bit of a stretch, but if I were part of the creative team I'd consider exploring that possibility.

Or, the next film could focus on a battle between Superman and Richard/Lois in court, regarding visitation rights.

Best superhero movie out there? It isn't even the best Superman movie out there, not by a long shot. Thumbs down.

Let's put it this way. The movie had some great special effects sequences, solid cinematography, passable acting and a surprisingly good script. They covered all the bases, made all the right references to the first two films, and had all the right crowd-pleasing superhero elements. On top of that, it was directed by Bryan Singer, one of the better superhero movie directors around. But despite all of the polish, the movie just wasn't any fun. At all. It wasn't even kind of exciting. Say what you will about their faithfulness to the comic books, but recent superhero flicks like Spider-Man, X2, and Batman Begins really had me rooting for the good guys. In the end, the only character I could really get behind in Superman Returns was Kevin Spacey's Lex Luthor, which is kind of sad. (Props to him for being the best of a bad bunch - he was one part Hackman and one part crazy bitter megalomaniac, which fit perfectly given the plot.)

At the same time, I was somewhat disappointed as a whole with Luthor's scheme this time around - something about crystals and real estate? All I know is that in the end, Superman didn't end up fighting anybody. If they're trying to make a point about his over-the-top powers by keeping him out of direct conflict with others, I guess they did that admirably, but it doesn't make for good entertainment.

Say what you will about Superman as a character, but I think the first two films at least proved he was a marketable property in film. Superman Returns, on the other hand, does not. I really wanted to enjoy it, but after the first 45 minutes or so I realized I couldn't. It had all the right glitter and even some substance tucked away in its overlong runtime, but it missed the sense of wonder and the cool factor that's so crucial for a superhero summer blockbuster (and was readily evident in earlier, iconic Superman films). This may very well have been the most expensive movie ever made, and while it's not a bad one, it definitely doesn't justify the cost in time, money, or effort on either side. Disappointment with a capital "D."

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 8th July 2006 16:39

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I'm not to bothered about superman personally I think he sucks but I would still see the film if you say its that good

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"There is no good, there is no bad. Just perspective and opinion." -Squall

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 1st July 2006 02:06)

- Did anyone ask where the hell Clark Kent was during that whole time Superman was unconsciouss at the end of the movie?

It's not like he was comatose for weeks or months. And people go days without seeing coworkers, and it's not like anyone's going to know that everyone else hasn't seen him either.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 1st July 2006 02:06)

if they can't put 2 & 2 together when they both simulatenously resurface after five years...

Everyone thought he was on some sort of sabbatical. I thought Clark had said good bye, but didn't as Superman because the emotional connection was stronger as Superman. The Superman Returns Prequel said Martha was sending fake postcards for him.
Plus, Metropolis is a big city (bigger than New York). It's not like Clark Kent was the only one to move there the day a flying man in a red cape showed up. Most people probably think Superman came to earth as an adult, while Clark has a past.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 1st July 2006 02:06)

- "Truth, Justice, you know all that stuff."  Why did they omit "and the American way!"  I know the patriotic fervor has died down, but that is essential to Superman's character.  As far back as the 70's, Batman represented the darker, dirtier underworld of American that no one likes to acknowledge, and in a way represents the antihero and counter-culture aspect of America.  Superman has always been the exact opposite.  He responds to the orders of the President, upholds a clean-cut image, and represents the order, stability, and optimism of America.  I'm not exactly the #1 patriot, but I was baffled by the omission of that line.

That particular omission is getting plenty of attention because it reeks of PC run amok. I, personally have no problem with it, because the cutting off was natural, and they also truncated other catch-phrases like the "It's a bird, it's a plane."
What bothers me more is how since the mid-90s, the comic writers have been trying to downplay the American part of the icon, and have tried their best to make him an "international" hero. The closest thing to embracing this part of Superman in the past 10 years is the story "What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way?" in Action #775 (go buy it. Seriously) which was more about how the boy scout image is better for someone of Superman's power.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall @ 1st July 2006 02:06)

Still, not to get into a pissing contest over Batman and Superman,

That's not what I was aiming for. My problem was how the kid was reflecting the phenomenon among comic fans that refuse to like a story about a character just because they like another character better. I don't like Batman as much as Superman. That doesn't mean I hate Batman Begins. Unlike a co-worker of mine, who hated everything about Superman Returns because:
1) He doesn't like Superman
2) He didn't like the character portrayals. When going into specifics, you really have to wonder if the guy ever picked up a comic book.

Quote (Vanilla Thrilla @ 3rd July 2006 16:13)

The whole "why can't they figure out Clark is Superman" phenomenon is undoubtedly the dumbest aspect of the entire franchise,

There's a whole slew of reasons why they can't figure it out.
First, Superman not wearing a mask is the greatest way to hide the secret. People don't think he has a secret identity, so they're not looking.
Then there's the issue of "clothes make the man." Example: at work, I was ringing out a customer. He looked familiar, but I paid that feeling no mind, because I see dozens of people a day, and just figured that I had seen him before. After I finshed ringing him out, he asks, "You have no idea who I am, do you?" It was the UPS guy. I see him every day, joke and chit-chat with him, etc. and I didn't recognize him out of his UPS uniform because I wasn't expecting to see him, especially in street clothes.
Despite all it's flaws, Superman: Birthright does an excellent job showcasing how all the little things can make you look like a different person. Clark slouches. He has bad eye contact. His voice is full of friendliness, awkwardness, a bit of naivete, and he stutters. Superman's form and voice are firm, and give a sense of authority. With completely different mannerisms, who's going to think they're the same guy? (Tim Drake figured out that Batman and Bruce Wayne were one in the same solely by matching up mannerisms) And if you did think Superman had a secret identity, you're not going to think of Clark Kent because you don't think of Clark Kent ever. Clark is this unnoticeable everyman, and the only people that know he's alive when they're not talking to him already know he's Superman anyways.
Also, with being an everyman, Superman has regular features that are much like anyone else's. His most striking feature is his bright blue eyes. He wears thick glasses to dim them and make them seem unremarkable.
His muscles are hidden by wearing multiple layers of clothing.
Each of these things may seem insignificant by themselves, but when they're all combined, they look like two different people.

The books have gone out of their way to add more.
In the Golden Age (possibly Silver as well) he would stretch his spine as Superman and compact it as Clark Kent to give the two a difference of about six inches in height. If two people looked exactly identical and had that much of a height difference, there's no way anyone would think they're the same person.
Post-Crisis, it was said that Superman can control his face muscles well enough to change the shape of it and the angle of the ears between identities.
Superman and Clark Kent have been photographed together multiple times.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 11th July 2006 03:49)

The books have gone out of their way to add more.
In the Golden Age (possibly Silver as well) he would stretch his spine as Superman and compact it as Clark Kent to give the two a difference of about six inches in height. If two people looked exactly identical and had that much of a height difference, there's no way anyone would think they're the same person.
Post-Crisis, it was said that Superman can control his face muscles well enough to change the shape of it and the angle of the ears between identities.
Superman and Clark Kent have been photographed together multiple times.

Shoot, if we're counting Golden Age, why not throw in a bit of the good old-fashioned super-hypnosis? Ridiculous powers as catch-all explanations FTW.

Anyway, I don't think you can comfortably rationalize the incredibility of Superman's so-called "secret identity" outside of utter stupidity on the part of most onlookers. It's just a part of the mythos - if you're willing to believe in a guy who can fly and shoot red beams out of his eyes, what's the problem with his lousy disguise? Yes, it's a terrible alter-ego, but I think the absurdity of it has become so associated with the character that I couldn't imagine it any other way.

Really I think one of the only ways to make an entertaining portrayal of a character as iconic and overexposed as Superman is to embrace the utter absurdity of his being. Everything about him is preposterous to the extreme, so why not play it up? Otherwise you get the "serious Superman" that plagued the 90's, culminating in some really terrible plotlines (Death and Return, anyone?). I say you have to go one of two ways - either place hard limits on his powers and humanize him, or go wild in a fantastic depiction of his gratuitous, over-the-top persona. I think the failed attempts to find a middle ground are one of the main problems with the Superman property today, and a key factor in his diminishing appeal to the modern eye. The lukewarm quality of the movie reflects this.

This post has been edited by Super Moogle on 11th July 2006 17:26

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

I finally went out and watched it last. I must say, that being a blatant superman-hater, didn't prevent me from enjoying this film. I've heard critics say that it was lacking from an action standpoint. I think that they put in the right amount and didn't fail to take the time to give superman a bit of character (something I feel his incarnations seldom receive enough of).

Obviously the visuals were excellent.

I don't really think it's in character for Superman to have an illegitimate child, though, nor do I feel at all perturbed about his "and the American way" line being absent. In fact, it seems much better to me to leave out that line and let him be the "world's" savior.

Just a bit more. The casting director should be congratulated. Spacey's Luthor was just the right amount of cold and calculating to match with the right amount of crazy genius. Brandon Routh, whom I had been worried about, put all my reticent worrying away. He felt more alive, more human than I expected. I was certainly happy that they finally made Clark (as DP mentioned) an everyman instead of a bumbling putz. Any diehard Superman fans I hope will forgive me, but I feel as though Routh may be the best incarnation yet.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 11th July 2006 13:25)

diminishing appeal to the modern eye.

That's kind of an odd point to make when, according to Newsarama's numbers (which don't include re-orders and re-prints), each part of Superman's OYL arc is selling over 70,000 copies each. In fact, the only title that's beating him out that isn't a mini, in the middle of a crossover with a mini, or a #1 is Teen Titans.

Quote (Super Moogle @ 11th July 2006 13:25)

Otherwise you get the "serious Superman" that plagued the 90's, culminating in some really terrible plotlines

Terrible plotlines plagued the 90s in all titles because the status of the market at the time had books getting sold regardless of story quality. If you're going to get paid regardless of the quality of your work, why try?
I dug up a bunch of back issues from the mid-late 90s (I was warned they would suck, but they were free), and I find Superman's biggest problem during that time period was the attempt to humanize him. A "hero" that is always double-guessing himself and getting angsty does not make an enjoyable story, doesn't matter what colors the costume are. But it does go double for Superman.
Then there was also Joe Kelley.

Look, I don't care if you don't like the movie. That's fine. I just find it a bit annoying when people completely hate a movie because they don't like Superman (thanks for proving my earlier point, by the way). And just because it was missing something you wish it had included doesn't take away from what got put in, either.
Looking at the previews, I was sure the kid was going to be Richard's, and he would end up dying and we would get to see an angry Superman on-screen (seeing that look of surprise-pain out of context made it look like anger-sadness to me). Doesn't mean I hate the rest of the movie. Heck, it doesn't even mean I hate the way they did the direction they took with the kid.

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"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

Quote (Dark Paladin @ 11th July 2006 22:07)

Look, I don't care if you don't like the movie. That's fine. I just find it a bit annoying when people completely hate a movie because they don't like Superman (thanks for proving my earlier point, by the way). And just because it was missing something you wish it had included doesn't take away from what got put in, either.

Are you addressing me in this post? If so, when did I ever say I didn't like Superman? I hold the original Superman movies in very high regard, and I greatly respect the character as the forefather of all modern superheroes. As I said before, I really wanted to like the movie, but I couldn't because of its conspicuous lack of fun factor - not because of preconceived notions I had about the character or the franchise. If anything I was looking forward to it more than any 2006 summer movie that had come out prior, and was doubly disappointed by the result.

Feel free to disregard this if you were addressing someone else, or making a general statement. Otherwise, try not to read in between the lines so much.

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"I always have a quotation for everything - it saves original thinking."
~Dorothy L. Sayers

"The truly remarkable thing about television is that it allows several million people to laugh at the same joke and still feel lonely."
~T.S. Eliot

"Defeat is not defeat unless accepted as reality - in your own mind!"
~ Bruce Lee

Let's hear for the mighty doomer of the doomed: Sabinscat!... Errr, blackcat.

I have only 1 thing to say.


DESTROY ALL SUPERHEROES!

Except spidey and x guys.

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Ah, so, yeah, I'm sabinscat's twin, so who cares?
Just. Check. This. Out.
Invite me [email protected], but tell me who you are.

Quote (blackcat @ 12th July 2006 20:28)

Let's hear for the mighty doomer of the doomed: Sabinscat!... Errr, blackcat.

I have only 1 thing to say.


DESTROY ALL SUPERHEROES!

Except spidey and x guys.

What does that have to do with anything?

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"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?