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I'm sorry if this has been posted, if so you have permission to delete this.

What does everyone think about Dirge Of Cerberus, Crisis Core & Before Crisis so far? I think DoC and CC are going to be good but i'm not too sure about BC.

Personall, I do not know, nor do I care. I think that it is an insult and an obvious ploy just to sap our money. If they had been released a few years closer to the original game, or shortly after a port or something, then I might feel differently. As it is I find them disgusting and evil.

They are created to make money, the same as every other game. I find it funny when someone calls out a game's release for being somehow morally "wrong".

FF7 was just a game. As such, I don't find any "disgrace" in Squenix trying to make more money off of the franchise. They are a company, it's what they do. Is it consumerism money-mongering? You betcha. Same as every other game company's philosophy for every game they've ever created.

I'm just tired of hearing about FF7's spotless reputation, and how it should not be sullied by these endless array of spinoffs.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

Dirge of Cerberous, to me, makes me feel like the franchise wants to be a darker, edgier, spinoff, or as I call it, the Shadow the Hedgehog Disease. And, as with most games that have SHD, it will not come out good.

As for Before Chrisis, i really am interested in it. The Turks have always been kind of "misunderstood" for me, so i would like to see what's behind all that. Too bad it's gonna be released on mobile phones, so I'll probably not be able to buy it (i'm stuck with a sell your soul away and get a crappy free phone from verizon). Oh well...

Chrisis Core, though, I'm a bit indifferent on, so meh.

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Can you pull down the dawn?
It's been so dark since you've been gone
and we've been begging for the morning to come.
We were so optimistic,
wasn't it so easy to be?
We were young and naive.
-The Hush Sound: Eileen

I am also of the opinion that the spinoff titles detract from the prestige of the original FFVII.

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 20th June 2006 22:38

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

While i do think they are spinoffs, im interrested on what they have to offer...

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Aujourdhui a commence avec toi.

(rant)
I find it funny that after fans have cried for years over there being no ending for FF7 and squabbling about it on message boards, when the creators give them EVERYTHING they ever wanted through AC and in sequel/prequel games, there's a whole new tantrum about how SE is trying to steal their money.

To expand on it, think about what a debate the original ending stirred up. Was humanity destroyed for its abuse of the planet? Yes? No? Maybe? Only kids survived? I remember a time before AC was even in the cards and there were blood feuds between people over this. Fun in a de-evolution type of way. Additionally, people were begging for a pre/sequel in video game or movie form; they didn't care. After FFX-2 came out in Japan, there was a whole stream of petitions and the like that people started up in the seemingly vain hope that FF7 would get the same treatment. In mid-2003, the dream started to come true. Is it a game? Is it a movie? What is it? Maybe it's all of them!!!

And it turned out that it was.

However, though people wanted this sequel/prequel, it seems that they feel they are now somehow sold short. It isn't their vision or they don't like it or whatever. Fans wanted their cake and to eat it too; either do SE had to do it the way the fans wanted it with the perfect number of releases for the price they wanted, or SE could forget it. Damn capitalists! Damn money-run company!

Well, now you have all the cake you ever wanted. In fact, you have a bloody bakery. You have a movie sequel (AC), an anime prequel (Last Order), a game sequel (DC), and TWO game prequels (BC and CC). Nobody's making you buy it all. So stop crying about how you have too much cake; don't forget how you moaned when you had none.

Financially, I can't buy all the stuff. I can get DoC and possibly BC if SE loves me and my phone. CC is out of the question unless it's ported to the PS2. I don't know about Last Order. However, I'll enjoy what I can have and not complain about what I cannot.

(/rant)



As to the games themselves, DC is a bit worrisome, given that they had to revamp stuff just to get it to the US; Japanese reviewers and players had some legitimate complaints about cameras, controllers, etc. Still, they say they fixed it, so let's hope for the best. BC -- I haven't heard anything bad about it. It is cell phone based, so it could be pricey if you have to get a new phone. CC -- on the PSP and centering around Zack. Pricey if you have to buy a PSP, but the game prices are not very inexpensive either. LO -- gotten some good reviews from what I've heard.

Quote (The Guitar Slayer @ 20th June 2006 22:52)

(rant)
I find it funny that after fans have cried for years over there being no ending for FF7 and squabbling about it on message boards, when the creators give them EVERYTHING they ever wanted through AC and in sequel/prequel games, there's a whole new tantrum about how SE is trying to steal their money.   

To expand on it, think about what a debate the original ending stirred up.  Was humanity destroyed for its abuse of the planet?  Yes?  No?  Maybe?  Only kids survived?  I remember a time before AC was even in the cards and there were blood feuds between people over this.  Fun in a de-evolution type of way.  Additionally, people were begging for a pre/sequel in video game or movie form; they didn't care.  After FFX-2 came out in Japan, there was a whole stream of petitions and the like that people started up in the seemingly vain hope that FF7 would get the same treatment.  In mid-2003, the dream started to come true.  Is it a game?  Is it a movie?  What is it?  Maybe it's all of them!!!

And it turned out that it was.

However, though people wanted this sequel/prequel, it seems that they feel they are now somehow sold short.  It isn't their vision or they don't like it or whatever.  Fans wanted their cake and to eat it too; either do SE had to do it the way the fans wanted it with the perfect number of releases for the price they wanted, or SE could forget it.  Damn capitalists!  Damn money-run company!

Well, now you have all the cake you ever wanted.  In fact, you have a bloody bakery.  You have a movie sequel (AC), an anime prequel (Last Order), a game sequel (DC), and TWO game prequels (BC and CC).  Nobody's making you buy it all.  So stop crying about how you have too much cake; don't forget how you moaned when you had none. 

I know I was perfectly satisfied with FFVII as a standalone entity. When I heard that there was going to be a movie, I was ambivalent and willing to give it a shot. When I heard about the plethora of spin-offs that were going to accompany the movie, I became less optimistic.

It's true Square-Enix is a company and that they have to make money. But truthfully, who here feels the pull to own every single one of these products? I'm not oppossed to a company making a profit at all, but from experience it seems to me that the more a company makes milking the cash cow its main priority the more its product tends to decline. The end result might be a fulfilled goal of increased profits, but as a consumer I tend to prefer quality over quantity. That's just me, and anyone who wants to encourage what SE is doing and/or buy the spin-offs should do whatever they want. But after seeing Advent Children, I know I wouldn't spend money on any of the other spin-offs. By contrast, I've owned three different copies of FFVII, two different copies of FFVI, and two different copies of FFIV in my life (not including ROMs).

My major beef is that some of the sharpest criticism of the FF7 spin-offs are coming from the same loudmouths that were bouncing off the walls when they heard SE had given in to their demands (and it took 6 to 7 years for that to happen!). To be honest, SE did this for the fans. Yes, they are making money off it, but I'd say at least a decent-sized minority to a fairly large majority rooted them on in this.

It's like the Doors going back out on tour (only two original members left in the band, and they're heading toward 70). Yeah, they're making money off it, but they don't have to; they could live off their royalties, golf in Florida, cliff dive in Acapulco, whatever. They're doing it as a last blast for the fans. Nothing lasts forever.

As to buying everything, there are completists out there that HAVE to HAVE it. I know one guy who complains that FFXI is an online RPG and he hates online RPGs, but once XII comes out, he HAS to get it because otherwise, his FF is missing a number. He cannot tolerate X, X-2, XII. There has to be XI!

Also, everything SE is putting out is different. DC is a shooting game. BC is a phone game. CC is a PSP. AC is a sequel movie. LO is a prequel anime/mini movie. They're hoping to reach as many people in as many different formats as they can.

This post has been edited by The Guitar Slayer on 21st June 2006 03:18

I don't get what all the fuss is about. You don't like the idea of a billion FFVII spinoffs? Fine! Don't buy them!

Seriously, what's the concern here? Do you think that Square would be making something you did want if they weren't busy with this? Do you hate FFVII fanboys so much that anything that makes them happy automatically makes you mad?

It's not like FFVII is some great work of art that's being cheapened/ruined by commercialization. Yay, spinoffs exist. I might pick one up. I might not. I don't really care either way; if I buy one, it will be because I ran out of other things to do.

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Veni, vidi, dormivi.

Quote (You Spoony Bard! @ 20th June 2006 20:22)

Dirge of Cerberous, to me, makes me feel like the franchise As for Before Chrisis, i really am interested in it. The Turks have always been kind of "misunderstood" for me, so i would like to see what's behind all that. Too bad it's gonna be released on mobile phones, so I'll probably not be able to buy it (i'm stuck with a sell your soul away and get a crappy free phone from verizon). Oh well...

This is just another "through the grapevine" kind of thing, but I heard that they aren't releasing Before Crises in the States do to the fact that not a lot of people invest in Cell Phone games.

btw does everyone know of Dirge of Cerberus: The Lost Episode for cell phones?

Should be good stuff

So;

Cell Phones:

DoC: The Lost Episode
FF7 Snowboarding
BC: FF7

PSP:

CC: FF7

PS2/PS:

DoC: FF7
FF7

DVD:

Advent Children

+some online novels "On the Way to a Smile" and "The Maiden Who Travels the Planet"

Am I missing anything?


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(Comical Voice) "Say Cloud, why don't you change your party? Who shall we choose? How about......Yuffie and Cait Sith.....Just kidding guys! No one likes you!"

Quote (The Guitar Slayer @ 20th June 2006 23:15)

My major beef is that some of the sharpest criticism of the FF7 spin-offs are coming from the same loudmouths that were bouncing off the walls when they heard SE had given in to their demands (and it took 6 to 7 years for that to happen!).  To be honest, SE did this for the fans.  Yes, they are making money off it, but I'd say at least a decent-sized minority to a fairly large majority rooted them on in this. 

It's like the Doors going back out on tour (only two original members left in the band, and they're heading toward 70).  Yeah, they're making money off it, but they don't have to; they could live off their royalties, golf in Florida, cliff dive in Acapulco, whatever.  They're doing it as a last blast for the fans.  Nothing lasts forever.

As to buying everything, there are completists out there that HAVE to HAVE it.  I know one guy who complains that FFXI is an online RPG and he hates online RPGs, but once XII comes out, he HAS to get it because otherwise, his FF is missing a number.  He cannot tolerate X, X-2, XII.  There has to be XI!

Also, everything SE is putting out is different.  DC is a shooting game.  BC is a phone game. CC is a PSP. AC is a sequel movie.  LO is a prequel anime/mini movie.  They're hoping to reach as many people in as many different formats as they can.

Well, you do make some good points. Some of the FFVII fanboys can be irritating like that. It's why I've always had a mixed opinion of FFVII's breakthrough success. While it's my favorite game in the series, and I'm glad it opened the unknown world of FF to new people, it's massive popularity also brought about the type of crowd that demands more, more, more. Unfortunately, the more those people get, the less they appreciate what they're getting. Either they want more still or they walk away. Either way the quality often suffers.

Quote (karasuman @ 20th June 2006 23:22)

I don't get what all the fuss is about.  You don't like the idea of a billion FFVII spinoffs?  Fine!  Don't buy them!

Seriously, what's the concern here?  Do you think that Square would be making something you did want if they weren't busy with this?  Do you hate FFVII fanboys so much that anything that makes them happy automatically makes you mad? 

It's not like FFVII is some great work of art that's being cheapened/ruined by commercialization.  Yay, spinoffs exist.  I might pick one up.  I might not.  I don't really care either way; if I buy one, it will be because I ran out of other things to do.

Well, that's definitely my solution. I plan not to buy them. While you're absolutely right that the spin-offs in no way devalue the original, I do think that Square's strategy means none of the current spin-offs will be as memorable. To tell the truth, I feel the same about FF in general. I don't want to fall into the "it's all because of Sakaguchi-Amano-Uemetsu that the series was good" crowd, as Nomura did work on FFVII...but something has been sorely lacking from the FF series for me, and it doens't seem like I'm the only one who feels that way.

It could be that I'm just from the old-school crowd, and that those of us disliking the current Square-fare are nostalgic. But I don't think so. It seems that many old-schoolers don't play as many games because we don't have as much time. So we're forced to be more selective, and when we do buy games it's because they're higher quality. That seems to be a trend with the RE, GTA, and MG series, to name a few. I notice that trend quietly dying with Final Fantasy.

Having played the demo disk of FFXII, I'm happy with the battle interface. I think the game could be a lot of fun, and I'm looking forward to it. The plot strikes me as standard FF fare, but I'm not too picky about that stuff anymore. So I still think there's hope for Final Fantasy. But for anyone who might be wondering why some old-schoolers continue to complain about the spin-offs, that's one person's reason why.

Quote (karasuman @ 20th June 2006 22:22)

I don't get what all the fuss is about. You don't like the idea of a billion FFVII spinoffs? Fine! Don't buy them!


It's not like FFVII is some great work of art that's being cheapened/ruined by commercialization.

It's like you took my poorly worded and un-thoughtout post and created a thing of beauty from it. Exactly the point I was trying to make, with much fewer words.

Excellent points from you as well, Guitar Slayer. I echo your sentiments.

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Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

I like the look of Dirge of Cerberus. Looks like they ripped a lot of stuff out of MGS games and mixed it with an RPG format, I'll prolly get that.

The others I prolly won't. I don't care how many spin-offs they make, as has been said, I don't have to buy them. I swear Western fans are SO much more whiney than the Japanese ones. ¬¬


Fan: "OH GOD WHY ARE YOU MAKING THIS HAPPEN!?"
-Square Enix holds gun to fan's head
SE Exec: "BUY ZE GAMEZ OR DIE!!"
Fan: -Sob- "Okay... it is clear I have no other choice..."
SE Exec: "NOW! NOW YOU PLAY ZE GAMEZ! PLAY ZEM ALL!"
Fan: "Why must I play games I do not enjoy... I shall go onto the internet and complain about it, as I had no choice but to play and complete it..."
SE Exec: "OH NO!! I AM THWAAAAARTEEEEEED!!"

And that's the true story of why fans are so whiney.

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

Quote (MetroidMorphBall)

While it's my favorite game in the series, and I'm glad it opened the unknown world of FF to new people, it's massive popularity also brought about the type of crowd that demands more, more, more.

I don't think the problem is so much of this as it is something else.

The way I see it is this: Final Fantasy VII's "commercialization" created a fanbase that wasn't much like the fanbase of the older FF gamers. This "new generation" consisted much more heavily of non-gamers and animé fans, and it makes sense that they'd demand (and produce, via fan-works) a lot more of stuff that's more motivated by storyline (or relating to it) and/or graphics. Part of the reason the newer FFs are the way they are is because of the influence of this fanbase on Square's/Squenix's success--products have to sell well, right? What better way than to cater to those in your fanbase?

Here's a summary of the difference: There are the "gamers" that games like FFT appeals to, reusing the idea of character classes and focusing on the core of the game's actual "game value", and there are the "non-gamers" who churn out fanfics and fanart and even (gasp!) porn, and go on to demanding movies and figurines and stuff like that. This is NOT an accurate or precise distinction among people, but I'm just trying to explain my point, which is that I believe FFVII attracted a lot more people of the latter "kind" than the former.*

Note that FFVII itself has several things that make it appeal relatively well to this type of people:
- Very complex and involved plot.
- First attempts at realism--or in other words, 3D graphics. Characters are no longer pixelated sprites that scream "this is a game".
- First usage of FMVs in the FF series.
- Animé-ish character design--significantly more so than in previous games. (Sprites with big eyes don't count.)

And even possibly--
- Character with large boobs.
- Bishie.

That would kinda explain the spinoffs--the spinoffs relate to a game that, by now, even has nostalgia value for these fans. It was their first FF, (for some) their first foray into RPGs perhaps, and even (for a few) the first game they played and enjoyed (because, let's face it, FFVII is a quite well designed game, even if I don't think it's that great).

* If this doesn't quite make sense to you, think of it this way: the difference between someone who'd see a battle in a Naruto episode and think "Naruto tactical strategy game a la FFTA?" and someone who'd see a battle in a Naruto episode and think "fanfic!" or "this hints at romance!".

This post has been edited by Glenn Magus Harvey on 21st June 2006 15:29

--------------------

Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Quote (Glenn Magus Harvey @ 20th June 2006 17:37)

I am also of the opinion that the spinoff titles detract from the prestige of the original FFVII.

Your last post explains why FFVII is so popular, but I'm not seeing anything explaining its "prestige." You said it yourself, the games not that great. The Squenix people did what they could to make FFVII popular and they succeeded. As far as I'm concerned, the spinoff craze is simply a testament to that.

And when it all settles, I'm sure I'll continue to like the game just about as much as I did when I first bought it.

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Console RPG Cliches

I don't care for the spinoffs, so I won't buy them. It's as simple as that. SE isn't pulling a gun to your head to play the games.

I'll still buy DoC for Kitten Sith. Anything with Kitten Sith is good. =3

Edit: And yeah, FFVII was very successful. There's no way to argue that.

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 22nd June 2006 03:53

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Im not real sure aboutthe spin off games, the cell phone ones i wont play since i dont have a phone (even though every teen in my county has one.). CC seems interesting, i may pick it up if i get a PSP, as for DoC that one actually has my attention. i did also get AC and liked it.

i like all of them because i love FF7.

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Cloud
"let's Mosey"