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I am starting this topic because I have been noticing that some people have a very strange view of strength when it comes to RPG's. Now I keep in mind that this is all fantasy and that it isn't supposed to represent reality, but I have to find some similarity in order to maintain my sanity, not to mention make sense of these things, rather than accepting them as truths.

Now, to me, damage in a game is a representation of the effectiveness of an attack. The higher the numbers on screen, the greater the effectiveness. As a character gains experience through battles, he/she/it learns where to strike opponents to cause the most damage, or attack in the most effective manner. At first, the character flails his or her weapon about with eyes closed screaming 'yearrgh' or whatever nonsensical gibberish comes to mind, hoping for a palpable hit. As the character gains knowledge or 'experience/levels' he/she/it becomes more comfortable in their dealings with the enemy and can strike at vital points, or take advantage of weaknesses. Once the accumulated knowledge is great enough (they have 'leveled up enough') the character gets to the point of defeating enemies in one blow, which the enemies body cannot take when struck with the proper amount of force in a vital spot. Thus the enemy dies, the numbers reach a point of maximum attainability (9999 or whatever) and the character smiles a smug little smile and moves on, picking over the corpse for any valuables on his/her/it's way to the next destination.

This is just how I look at things, maybe some of you see it differently? Please share!

This post has been edited by Nytecrawla on 27th May 2006 21:28

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

I see HP and EXP as numbers in a game.

Frankly, the last thing I want to see when playing a game is an attempt to link its workings to reality. It's called a "game" for a reason, after all. In order to be fun, a game HAS to bend many rules to avoid becoming a clone of reality. Why would that be bad? Let's see...

Image FF7 being realistic. The intro plays itself out, Cloud leaps off of the train, and a Shinra soldier opens fire on him. He takes a hit and dies before he can even slash anything. Game over.

Great game.

No really, great game. Best 3 minutes of my life.

Realism doesn't have its place in a game. Some imaginary made-up rules must exist, because epic adventures like those in RPGs simply cannot take place in reality. In reality, if we had a country like Baron or Alexandria trying to take over the others, we'd be facing world war III, not some passive head-in-the-sand ignorance and hoping they won't bother with us.

So they're numbers. And that's all I'll ever see them as: a mechanism to keep the game fun and to prevent it from falling into unecessary realism.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Oh I understand that Silverlance, and those are all excellent points, but I'm not trying to inject unneccesary realism into a game. I am just trying to make sense of the whole damage phenomena.

I can appreciate your views though and belive me, I think we all need a healthy dose of fantasy in our lives.

Let's keep it moving!

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This is a webcomic and gaming blog where I rant about nonsense. Enjoy.

I was a soldier, now I just play one in video games.

Yeah, I never tried thinking about it more than neccesary either. I think the developers of the game view them as numbers as well, otherwise the phase gun that can desintegrate anything including the main character's father during an important cutscene would do 99,999 damage during a battle.

Or something similar.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

I'm pretty much with Silverlance, although I do like it when games tag the strength of guns to Accuracy rather than Strength. As I've heard it put; "The strength of a gun isn't determined by how hard you pull the trigger". Bows also do well being tagged to a % of Strength and Accuracy combined, as they are in Disgaea.

Otherwise, I'm not that bothered.

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

Have you ever seen a martial arts fight in a movie or TV show?

Yeah. See, I believe that RPG fights are a kind of simulation of that.

What's represented by HP is not so much how much (or little) hurt a character has sustained, but more so how much the character "can go on fighting". It's like, instead of frustrating the player by showing "MISS" nearly every time and giving every person about 9 HP, the game gives every person on the order of 5000 HP and has them "hit" most of the time.

Or something like that. Since when did games have to be realistic, anyway?

And if you're gonna talk realism: espers, summoned monsters, magical crystals, the X-Zone, materia...

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Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

It seems HP and such are one of those things that just "are."

It's part of the game environment, just like magic, monsters randomly wandering around the countryside AND getting stronger as you approach the final area, unseeming items (such as combs) being used as weapons, or two different swords doing a world of difference in terms of damage despite both being, well, swords.

The good thing is, most players still accept that as something that doesn't have to conform to a realistic system. The same goes for any other genre (such as fighting games, where you can take a pummeling and keep on fighting like nothing happened until your health finally runs out, at which point you instantly cease being able to hold yourself up; or FPSes where you can take a rocket on the chin and survive with only mildly severe injuries.)

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

^Yes! Exactly! Jeez, that sums it up perfectly.

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote

or two different swords doing a world of difference in terms of damage despite both being, well, swords.

Next people'll start threating about the fact a sword made of a soft metal like gold can do more damage than a metal like steel. But we ALL know a stick with a nail in it outclasses them BOTH!

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The Arcana are the means by which ALL is revealed.

If they did games realisticly then it would be boring. Look at the opening of DMC2, Dante jumps off a huge tower and lands on his legs, perfectly unharmed. Now imagine that if it was realistic, Dante jumps off the tower and breaks his legs as he lands and dies a horrible painful death.

In some RPGs like FFVIII, strength represents a character's weapon power while most other RPGs represent strength to be a character's natural power which is realistic in some games while not so in others.

HP I see as numbers to represent life source. I grew up on 0HP representing death, but in ost modern RPGs (or modern ones I've played) represents the character being unable to take any more punishment and is taken out of combat.

In most RPGs I've played, though, experience is way unrealistic. If so, Laguna's, Kiros', and Ward's experience points should be WAY higher than their corresponding characters or older, battle-hardened characters should have a higher EXP count than the rest of the party, a la Steiner and Beatrix in FFIX. Being 35 and a knight for 18 years, Steiner should've started out on a higher level than a 16-year-old theif, no? BUT, it'd probably be boring if games we're realistic, hence why I like games and movies more than real life .

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"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

I agree with mostly everyone on this page about how a game shouldn't be realistic that would take the fun away from it.

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Cloud
"let's Mosey"