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The fact remains, with the Atma Weapon, Offering, Valiant Knife and Genji Glove you can take 79,992 damage in one turn, and there is no other way in the game to do that aside from stealing an atma weapon in the last battle. With the Offering equipped with the Illumina, the MP drain doesn't even work, so you don't take 9999 damage. Oh, and even with the last battle, you cannot get a perfect item list, because you can't have both the paladin shield and cursed shield at the same time, so the most you can get is 254 of 255 items. I don't count the last battle though, because you can't save it during or after that battle. Even if the Illumina gives you stat boosts, what's the point if you're just gonna kill everyone with atma weapon anyway? Either way, I'd choose the sword over the esper, because the esper is completely and utterly useless. You can use magicite items to transform items you need, and you can learn ultima with the paladin shield. At least with the sword you can actually use it for something, because in Kefka's tower and phoenix cave you must split, so you can't have the guy who owns all in both your parties (Locke)

"The fact remains, with the Atma Weapon, Offering, Valiant Knife and Genji Glove you can take 79,992 damage in one turn, and there is no other way in the game to do that aside from stealing an atma weapon in the last battle. "

I disbelieve.

According to my calculations and confirmed with Mnrogar's damage calculator,
one only needs L99, VIGOR=128, and BP=95 to get 9999 damage with the Offering equipped. That means that over half the weapons in the game will qualify as weapon #1 and weapon #2 to get 79,992 damage. So even puny Relm at L99, VIGOR=128, equipped with her initial equip, the Chocobo Brush (BP=60), Davinci Brush (BP=100), Genji Glove and Offering should easily be able to 79,992 to a Grenade (DEF=0).

But I am still not convinced. Perhaps there is some odd bug in the formula that is throwing off my calculations. I have taken a long hietus from the game recently to focus on something else. I will continue my perfect LLG game tonight and try to get the point where I have both the Atma Weapon and the Illumina and do some tests. I will post the results in this thread. I have been wanting to do that for a while now.


Tonepoet said on November 21st 2004:

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Oh and before I forget I have a question.
Detah said on June 4th 2004:

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There is a cool way to make the Cursed Shield's effects work to your benefit. I call it Crazy Strago Healer. Equip Strago with Heal Rod, Cursed Shield, Ribbon and Marvel Shoes/Hero Ring/White Cape. Now Strago will be uncontrollable (due to the Muddle property of the Cursed Shield), but he will heal a party member every turn.

Can somebody explain this to me again? I thought the Ribbon protected against Muddle status on the wearer. Even if you equip the cursed sheild. Is there something I am missing? Thanks to whomever decides to help in advance.

You are absolutely correct. I do not know how that "Ribbon" text got in there. That should have read HyperWrist. I posted this tip eons ago in the thread below. For almost all of my juicy Relic tips see my Top 10 list of best and worst relic at
http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...topic=974&st=30

This post has been edited by Detah on 9th December 2004 18:56

I think somthing is wrong with your calculations. If a character has only one weapon equipped and is in the front row, then you are correct. However, if that character has an offering, genji glove, or is in the back row, damage will be lessened. I don't know the actual numbers, but I have Shadow with about 100 vigor and in the front row with the Stunner and Graedus and offering (combined battle power about 480) and to most enemies, he will deal about 6000 per hit. Yes the average enemy has about 100 defence, but if you check out a damage calculator, the enemy defence doesn't help them too much.

I have really been unable to use the Valiant knife to any extent whatsoever. When I combine it with the Atma Weapon and with about 110 battle power and not even an offering, I hardly deal any damage with the Valiant Knife.

If you would like to see an indepth description on charging characters and dealing serious damage, check out my Ultimate Party FAQ.

For the record, I always get the sword. It kicks butt.

This post has been edited by Beowulf of the East on 10th December 2004 00:21

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Hrothgar! Behold, great Healfdane's son, this glorius sign of victory, brought you by joyful Geats. My life was almost lost, fighting for it, struggling under water: I'd have been dead at once, and the fight finished, the she-devil victorious, if our Father in Heaven had not helped me.
~ Beowulf

* Is that L99?
* I recommend 128 VIGOR. It is optimal for your brute physical fighters. Dont bother getting higher than 128 VIGOR, it will not improve your damage at all.

If you have L99, 100 VIGOR, and use the the Stunner (BP=220) as weapon #1, then you will do 9999 dam each hit versus Grenade. I am not sure how you arrived at 7000. Are you in the back row? Did the target have SAFE status? Is the target in the backrow? I dont see any other way to arrive at 7000 dam.

If you're planning to get Cursed Shield, then get:

The sword and Bet it for Illumina. Use Cursed Shield on the character and with a ribbon. Do it for 255 battles and you got it. I never got paladin shield so that's why i'm still trying to get it.

when i played the first time through ff6, i took the ragnarok and later illumina. but next time i would sure take the magicite cause a sword is hardly worth it to trade against a magicite.

that is cause, there are plenty of good swords out there...i think the magicite makes the bigger difference.

Yes he is level 99.

Basically, every time I fight enemies he deals about 6000 damage. It is because the offering reduces the attack power that you deal.

I prefer to get more speed because in most cases, when you end up dealing maximum damage, speed is really the determinant on how much damage you deal.

Did you check out my FAQ yet? It shows all my stats and everything.

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Hrothgar! Behold, great Healfdane's son, this glorius sign of victory, brought you by joyful Geats. My life was almost lost, fighting for it, struggling under water: I'd have been dead at once, and the fight finished, the she-devil victorious, if our Father in Heaven had not helped me.
~ Beowulf

You're right, you can to a grenade, but I'm talking about to any monster at all, even those with 255 defense. Try that one Valiant Knife works the same way as Atma Weapon except for backwards, but to be honest, I boosted my Locke's speed instead of vigor last time, so I'll have to check to see if you can do 9999 damage with valiant knife with max hp and 128 vigor...but I know that with about 70% hit points you do 9999 damage with both of them, even with about 100 vigor.

ummmmmmmm, you dont even need to be at lvl 99 with vigor 128, to do straight nines with most weapons, and whoptee do, the atma weapon peirces defense.......the atma weapon doesnt auto critical, the illumina does, so you have to double whatever damage it would do, meaning you're still going to do 9,999 damage from the back row, frankly, i think your calculations are way off, because with my lvl 99 terra and the illumina i have yet to do anything less than 9,999 damage to any monster in any row, and i have spent not one level on raising her vigor. i hate the gengi glove for the following reasons.

the gengi glove, makes you not have a sheild no more........."ooooooo big deal no sheild" right? you people focus way too much on offense, a person using the gengi glove and offering is a person who isnt using the safety bit or ribbon, and without something like the paladin sheild , that character is going to die the first battle he encounters a retainer in, it takes rediculous dodge to avoid "tradeoff" and the safety bit and relic ring dont protect from it for some reason, which makes having the rediculous dodge of the illumina and paladin sheild combined absolutely necessary, but wait, your not even using the illumina, your dodge stats probably arent even above 50,..........tradeoff kills that character,along with any other monster that does some instant death thing when hit or killed.

i for one, enjoy the ability to do the kefka fight with mog.............BY HIMSELF......and taking zero damage from everything, status effects and spells not working, instant death twarted, and getting healed everytime he casts merton just incase SOMETHING did hit him, add marvel shoes and yeah.......beefy, thats another thing.

a character with that combo isnt using the marvel shoes.............those are must haves for me, haste , regen, shell, and safe at the same time? you must be a fool to give those up for NILL defense against retainers , which i may add, are EVERYWHERE in kefka's tower.........and dont give me that "ill just run away line", if you have to run to survive, the equipment setup needs a changin' YARRR

I was just playing my game to check if my info is correct and it sure is. I deal only about 6000 with each hit with shadow, he is in the front row, and the enemies are just normal, no safe, no back row, nothing funny.

I was checking out my Valiant Knife and OMG I didn't realise it used your level so much. I only tryed to use it earlier in the game, when my level was not high. Now that my four main characters are level 99 (Locke is one of them) he can deal some serious damage. In the back row, with 9999 HP, full health, and an Offering, I can deal an average of about 5000 damage per hit! In the front row, he can easily deal 80,000 damage (Atma and Valiant) at most times. That is so sweet. I guess I will have to revise my FAQ.

This post has been edited by Beowulf of the East on 10th December 2004 05:11

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Hrothgar! Behold, great Healfdane's son, this glorius sign of victory, brought you by joyful Geats. My life was almost lost, fighting for it, struggling under water: I'd have been dead at once, and the fight finished, the she-devil victorious, if our Father in Heaven had not helped me.
~ Beowulf

he would be doing even more damage in the back row if you were using the atma weapon and the illumina.......the problem with equipping both the valiant knife and the atma weapon, is that their damage is based on the opposite of the others, to a huge degree, atma weapons bat power always reads 255, regardless of what its real power is.......if your health goes down enough to power up valiant knife, its weakened atma weapon considerably and vice versa, and cutting their power in half with the back row, is even less desireable, the illumina however, reads 255 because its 255, and always crits which effectively at higher levels make it do the same damage from any row.

but like i said before, i prefer uber defense to uber offense, sheild for me....that reminds me a point ive had in my head but failed to bring up over and over again in this topic.

the illumina is the ultimate sword, and the paladin sheild is the ultimate sheild, by themselves either is uber, but they were meant to be used together, and here is why bat power completely aside, and hell, even defense completely aside, using both gives you the following bonuses without taking up any of your relic slots.

+90% dodge
+90% magic dodge
+14 vigor
+14 stamina
+14 speed
+14 magic
ABSORB - Lightning, Ice, Fire, Pearl
NEGATE - Earth, Wind, Water, Poison((incase you didnt notice thats all 8 elements))

now......since we have both relic slots open where as you dual weilders dont, we're going to throw those in as well, I will add in some marvel shoes and a zephyr cape. the bonuses are now.......of which you get ZIP ZERO AND NILL for equpiing the valiant knife and atma weapon with a gengi glove and offering.

+100% dodge
+100% magic dodge
+14 vigor ((thats a lot of damage btw at higher levels)
+14 stamina
+14 speed
+14 magic((same as what i said about vigor))
ABSORB - Lightning, Ice, Fire, Pearl
NEGATE - Earth, Wind, Water, Poison
non-dispelable permanent HASTE
non-dispelable permanent SHELL
non-dispelable permanent SAFE
non-dispelable permanent REGEN
Randomly evade any attack.

i think that speaks for itself when you remember you get none of that doing the dual weild with atma and valiant.

I always take the magicite, mainly because my best party only involves one character using a sword anyway, in which case I use the Atma Weapon. Also, I never use offensive magic, I just learn magic for the sake of saying I did. Even in the fanatics tower I just berserk my offering/atma weaponed character anyway (or run through with mog with moogle charm hee hee).

Also the ragnarok summon I find to be very useful. Yes you can steal megalixirs from the guys on solitary isle, but I prefer to mimic a ragnarok summon on the magic urns until it works. It may take longer then the solitary isle guys, but this way I'm still getting 5 magic points each battle from the urns.

The first few times I played the game, I didn't know how to break the curse on the shield and never knew you could learn ultima off of it until by chance one of guys did. Nice benefit I'll admit, but in the time it takes to fight 250 battles, I've already learned Ultima on almost everyone I care about by fighting tyranosaur/brachosaur which is where I fight when I break the curse. And none of that ribbon/safety bit stuff either, just throw on the healing rod on Strago and I'm all set.

But as it has already been mentioned, it's just a preference really. But really, there are enough weapons already that can deal enough damage anyway. Unless you're going for a game where you're beating the game at a low level then take the esper. If you have to take the sword for the attack from back row to prevent taking damage, why not just heal them after battle with a cure3 with an economizer? Same goes with the 128% magic block. You're using 10-20 mp or whatever it was to deal out 9999 criticals which can be done with other weapons.



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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel876/homepage.html

Wow mooglemadness, that sounds really nice there. But I wouldn't use the zephyr cape. 10%, not that big a deal. I'd throw on the offering. Might as well take advantage of those +14's by dealing out 4x9999 as opposed to just one. Then again, you said you're all about uber defense so it's your call.

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This is my world: (Got my second chapter up, 3rd Chapter about 80% complete)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel876/homepage.html

Offensive and defensive people have completely different outlooks on things. It's almost like a presidential election o.O

the thing is, with the defensive setup..........you wont EVER have to use cure after a battle again.

Quote (mooglemadness @ 10th December 2004 00:35)

[...]
the illumina is the ultimate sword, and the paladin sheild is the ultimate sheild, by themselves either is uber, but they were meant to be used together, and here is why bat power completely aside, and hell, even defense completely aside, using both gives you the following bonuses without taking up any of your relic slots.

+90% dodge
+90% magic dodge
+14 vigor
+14 stamina
+14 speed
+14 magic
ABSORB - Lightning, Ice, Fire, Pearl
NEGATE - Earth, Wind, Water, Poison((incase you didnt notice thats all 8 elements))

now......since we have both relic slots open where as you dual weilders dont, we're going to throw those in as well, I will add in some marvel shoes and a zephyr cape. the bonuses are now.......of which you get ZIP ZERO AND NILL for equpiing the valiant knife and atma weapon with a gengi glove and offering.

Amen, mooglemadness!
Finally someone has some sense to see the glory of the Illumina. It is refreshing after hearing all the Illumina-dissing posts lately.

But there are 2 minor corrections I would make to your post.
1) The Paladin Shield provides no stat bonuses. So The total stat bonus from Illumina+Paladin Shield would be +7 to each stat.
2) The Zephyr Cape, despite its misleading item desciption, is one of the worst choices for a Relic slot in the game. It only provides +10% MBlock; nothing more. Please see my Relic discussion post in the thread
http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/in...topic=974&st=30

Alternatively, I would recommend the Ribbon, which provides immunity to 10 statuses.

Or the White Cape. The White Cape offers +10% MBlock, Immunity to the IMP and MUTE statuses, +5 DEF and +5 MDEF.

Note: The Marvel Shoes (and the Running Shoes) provide a permanent HASTE status upon the wearer. The nature of a permanent HASTE status provides immunity to the SLOW status as a really nice positive side effect.

This post has been edited by Detah on 13th December 2004 19:53

I chose for the sword, but I think I'm regretting it now.
I saved, and tried out the esper with the Ultima spell, then I loaded again, went for the sword, and saved.

What's your usual approach?

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Horned - Morbid Thrash Metal
Murw - Doomy atmospheric black metal

I like having a lot of my characters with Ultima, so I usually go for the Magicite, so I can have at least two or three with it before I hit Kefka's tower. However, if you're the kind of person that doesn't mind leveling up for hours on end (which I am most certainly not), then you won't mind getting the Paladin Shield and using that for Ultima, so you probably would prefer to get the sword that gets you the best weapon in the game. Sorry for that last run-on sentence.

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this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

We already had this discussion

Moderator Edit

Yes, we did. How useful for you to point this out when you have absolutely no power to do anything about it. -R51

This post has been edited by Rangers51 on 12th April 2005 02:00

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procastinate now, dont put it off

Very strange...

Just one hour or so ago, I started a topic about this which disappeared, while this poll suddenly appeared.

Maybe it's a hint from the mods, tellin' me that I should read back more...

Got a lot of info from this topic though, which I thank for. (I mean, really, because in Dutch that also could mean the same in a sarcastic way, which I'm not doing now)

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Horned - Morbid Thrash Metal
Murw - Doomy atmospheric black metal

Good point Mr. Dawezy,

The sword is alot better. i whould have been done for without my Illumina.

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"You know that feeling you get when you're on a merry go 'round, and you want to jump off to make the spinning stop, but you know it'll suck when you land? I feel like that all the time"- Keno

"I stab my girl until I fall down"
-Yukari
Do you like Horny Bunnies?

Quote (mooglemadness @ 10th December 2004 00:35)

the problem with equipping both the valiant knife and the atma weapon, is that their damage is based on the opposite of the others, to a huge degree, atma weapons bat power always reads 255, regardless of what its real power is.......if your health goes down enough to power up valiant knife, its weakened atma weapon considerably and vice versa, and cutting their power in half with the back row, is even less desireable, the illumina however, reads 255 because its 255, and always crits which effectively at higher levels make it do the same damage from any row.

Little correction I felt needed to be mentionned...

The Atma Weapon and the Valiant Knife are based on the user's LEVEL above all, and not actually HP (I'm not 100% if the level has as big an impact on the valiant knife, but I know the Atma Weapon THRIVES on the user's level.) HP only gives it a small (but noticeable) boost. It also ignores defense, which means that 9999 damage will ALWAYS be 9999, whereas the illumina might end up doing less.

Personally I never saw a difference. After giving the aforementionned Valiant Knife / Atma Weapon / Genji Glove / Offering combo to someone, nothing else really mattered. Even Kefka was a joke and died within a round or two of combat. I usually just pick the esper for the sake of having a full esper list, sans-Odin. It never had any other impact on things for me.

At this point, when you can slam someone for 8x9999 damage, who needs defense? Seriously? No enemy will have a chance to hit you more than once, not even the last boss.

The sole exception is when playing a low-level game, where the stat boost Illumina gives is very important. Mainly the MBlock. But of course, that's an exceptional situation: you don't normally play through the game at level 8.

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 12th April 2005 05:41

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

I keep it as Magicite, if just so I can go for the full Esper collection.

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SuperHeroChat

I don't know. I just thought that Ragnarok was useless as an Esper. Although the spells were nice... I just like the sword better. I like the fact that Ragnarok is a strong or almost best or best sword in a few games. Plus, in VI Ragnarok is both a sword and an Esper.

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Yunalesca: "Hope is...comforting. It allows us to accept fate, however tragic it might be. "

Yunalesca: "Poor creature. You would throw away hope. Well... I will free you before you can drown in your sorrow. It is better for you to die in hope than to live in despair. Let me be your liberator. "

It's been over a year since the last active post on this thread, and I just wanted to clarify new things I've learned and believe since my previous posts on here.

My previous posts were from the views of a parochial perfectionest, with no concerns for others' thoughts and enjoyments of the game. Therefore, they are best followed by those who wish to level up to 99 and spend alot of time stat-building.

In reality, the Ragnarok sword is definitely the better one to choose. There is nothing useful you can get with the ragnarok esper that you can't get elsewhere without it, especially nothing as good as the Illumina, with all its high stat boosts and 50% MBlock%. Even with a low level character, if you have 128% MBlock, you are nearly undefeatable.

I still prefer the AtmaWeapon, but only because I like the concept of leveling more than others. Illumina is a must for a LLG though, the ragnarok esper won't compare to the sword in a LLG at all.


I never realized how much of an arrogant moron I was, even one year ago. Perhaps I was on too much Jolt cola...

This post has been edited by LeviathanMist on 20th April 2006 11:00

I'd go for the Esper if by doing so I would be able to have a full list of Espers; however, Odin/Raiden screwed that one up and since the sword nets me Illumina, I take the sword

i like takin the sword because u can always learn from the paladin shield

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Marion Gaborik is my hero :D

I prefer the sword by far. I really like the Illumina for anyone in the party that istn using the valiant + Atma + genji glove + offering combo. PLus with the Paladin Shield giving the Ultima I am set there. The Esper summon is quite pointless so that gives me no insentive to get the esper.

Game mechanics aside, did anyone ever notice this sillyness that Ragnarok the Esper was also a sword? Seriously, check out the picture when you call him to transform enemies into items. The Esper is a sword.

*shakes head*

Ragnarok's entire life was spent as a sword, dies, and then either spends eternity as a crystalized corpse or... a sword. Yippie.

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Visions of Peace - Four Generals, One Empire, and the Returners caught in the middle.

I'm going with the Magicite for the simple reason that its the only way to morph enemies.

This whole Atma Weapon vs. Illumina debate has made it concrete in my mind.


Rangarok/Illumina: Has a somewhat Replacement, the Atma Weapon. It may not be as good, but it can be compared.

Magicite: The only way to morph ememies. The only way (I can find) to get 4 Exp. Eggs. Along with other free stuff I can sell for extra Gil if/when I need it.
Ultima is an added bonus in my mind.


P.S.- Can't you keep playing the game after you beat it ijn the GBA version? If that is the case then the Magicite is better because you can steal the sword from the second to last boss. If not ignore this porition of my post.

This post has been edited by RobertM on 19th February 2007 23:52

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<Insert witty remark here>