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this has been on my mind for a while, but does any one here believe that vincent should have been a main character? i mean, he really has a lot to do with Sephiroth, he was there <not exactly but... you know..> for his birth and stuff, right? and he knew that

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

jenova wasn't his real mother

so what do you think?

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OBEY YOUR THIRST
"Aww...They're SOOO CUUTE!! BUT WHO CARES!!!!?"
-Excel Excel, Excel Saga

Good point.

Nah vincent is just a little to speachless to be a main.

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It takes 2 people and a weapon
to commit a murder

Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is mystery,
today is a gift, thats why we call it the present.

But Tifa was THERE during the Nibelheim incident and lost her father to Sephiroth. Plus, she was his guide when he first went through the mountains!

What about Red XIII? It's hinted that Hojo did something to him involving the clones (what with his tatoo and his mention of it in relation to the tatooed men the party encounters) so surely he has ties to Sephiroth.

And Cloud? Not only was he there with Sephiroth during the Nibel incident, he was injected with Jenova cells and made into a clone by Hojo. AND he has a score to settle with Sephiroth, as well.

Come to think of it, every character ties in with Sephiroth and/or Shinra strongly (except for Cait Sith; nobody loves Cait Sith. Ever.) Or is it just that none of the characters are all gothic-looking, have guns, and are portrayed as "badass" by not talking often and being dark and moody in an attempt to appeal to the younger fanboys...?

I still say Square should've made Dio the main character though. He was obviously drinking buddies with Sephiroth, but then Sephy went off one day and said he'd blow the world up. Dude. If my buddies did that to me, I'd be all like... "HEY! DUDE! NOT COOL!" and break a beer bottle over their heads or something. Totally.

But instead Square made Cloud the main character... :/ Alas, Dio, you must remain an excentric theme park owner...

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Well Caith Sith is very related to Shinra, he works for them, CS=Reeves!

Anyway, if SquareEnix want it to they could make a game out of every character in FF7.

Waiting for that Dirge of Cerberus...

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PS3 tag: TipoDLuffy

"...quite possibly the greatest game ever made"

Vincent isn't a main character. He's a secret character.

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Whether you take the doughnut hole as a blank space or as an entity unto itself is a purely metaphysical question and does not affect the taste of the doughnut one bit.

http://slightly-bitter.blog.co.uk

Yeah, he and Yuffie are secret characters, just like Odin, Alexander, B.ZERO and KoR are secret summons. But I think that what he is trying to say is that each character is "Self-Tittle" game worthy!

hmmm, say, what kind of game would you develope using FF 7 characters!

Barret - First Person Shooter
Yuffie - Action Adventure Platform APE ESCAPE type of game
Sephiroth - Prince of Persia kind of game, Wutai Wars!

That's all I can think of, Vincent: Dirge of Cerberus looks like a Devil May Cry / Castlevania type of game, so I guess Viincent fits perfect for that kind of game!

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PS3 tag: TipoDLuffy

"...quite possibly the greatest game ever made"

I'd rather see Square close the FF chapter once and for all and start exploring new grounds. Or at least put a stop to all these spinoffs and learn to be big boys and end the series instead of further milking it. :/

But then again, a FF7 remake 5-6 years from now on the Gameboy Ultra-Cube 256: Special Etheral Casing Edition is unevitable unless Square stops at 6 and dies of an unexplained cow stampede.

Eh. Not gonna be a party-pooper... I'd say the only use Cait Sith (WHOM NOBODY LOVES! EVER!) would have is in a casino-themed game, à-la Casino Kid. Casino Cait? I can picture Reeve playing poker with the big wigs of Shinra, all crowded around a table, Palmer putting on the worse poker face ever.

I could picture Yuffie in a first-person shooter adventure game wannabe (Materia Prime? XD ) during the WuTai war mentionned in the game...

And who could resist a Sephiroth-themed Tetris spinoff? It doesn't have to bloody well make sense, the fanboys would eat it up. I should sell the idea to Square and take an early retirement from office programming... but then I'd grow bored during the day.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

i pride in being the only person in the world who loves cait sith, thank you very much

but yeah, i'm also tired of these spin-offs. AC was really quite enough. though i guess it'd be fun to play a vincent shooter...

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Quote (BASSsic @ 10th February 2006 15:57)

Vincent isn't a main character. He's a secret character.

that's what i'm saying, usually secret characters have nothing to do with the plot. i don't exactly know what yuffie's connection with sephitorh was, all she wanted was the mateira.
But vincent should NOT have been a secret character, cause like i said before, he had a big connection with sephiroth, not that big maybe, but still big, i mean,

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

lucrecia was the woman vincent loved and the real mothr of sehpiroth

get what i'm saying now? i'm not trying to say that he should take cloud's place and be themain main character, i'm just saying he shouldn't be hidden.

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OBEY YOUR THIRST
"Aww...They're SOOO CUUTE!! BUT WHO CARES!!!!?"
-Excel Excel, Excel Saga

then again, those plot elements are only revealed if you bother to recruit vincent and go to lucrecia's cave. they aren't neccesary, just an incentive for recruiting vincent. (a reward of a richer story for getting him.) at least, thats what i think. you don't really need to know all these things, it's just nice to know, IMO.

meh

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

The thing is, the story isn't about Sephiroth. It's about the Planet, AVALANCHE's struggle to save it, and so and so. Sephiroth's role in this is just because he wants to blow it up and become a god; he's the storyline's means of progressing, but not the storyline itself.

This is what Bugenhagen practically drives himself nuts trying to explain to the player in Cosmo Canyon, the reason why Barret formed AVALANCHE (and why Cloud/Tifa are involved in the game in the first place), the driving storyline force behind Sephiroth and Shinra, and a host of other things.

If you look at it this way, Vincent has as much bearing on the plot as Yuffie: he's just involved (quite indirectly) with Sephiroth/Hojo for the sake of revenge, just like Yuffie's along for the group's materia because Shinra crippled WuTai and reduced it to a resort town.

Cloud was directly involved with Shinra, the attacks on the reactors (ie: the point where the Planet, through AVALANCHE, begins to fight back), Shinra's experimentation with Mako (ie, the lifestream), Aeris (whose role with the lifestream is quite important), Sephiroth and Nibelheim, and, well, pretty much all of the major storyline points in the game. To boot, he's part of the Reunion (and Jenova has a MUCH more important role than Sephiroth; quite frankly, the real storyline villain is Jenova (what with the Reunion), and not actually Sephiroth.)

Vincent is an ex-turc. He loved Lucrecia and got offed by Hojo, but otherwise has nothing to do with Sephiroth nor Shinra. Hojo plays a far greater role than him (being Sephy's daddy and being responsible for most of the stuff going on with Mako.) Quick frankly, Vincent really IS a side-character who only appeals to a minor aspect of the storyline. For all I remember, he doesn't even seem to care all that much about the Planet and the lifestream; just his inability to protect Lucrecia from Hojo and his experimentations. Not a very strong tie there...

Disclaimer: It's the weekend and I'm wonky. Russian comrads are marching 'round my head.

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 11th February 2006 06:40

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

good job silverlance! *claps* I think youre right

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uh...like FF7 is the best game ever!

I think the main character should be Aerith. She was well involved with the plot.

ya i think hes a cool guy

I'll just say that, no matter whether Vincent or Yuffie deserved main roles or not, they have much more connection to the main characters and the plot than any other game I've ever seen.

But, keeping myself with the topic, yeah, I think Vincent deserved a main role. He's far too relevant to the plot to be a secret character.

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"But he's the sort of man who can't know anyone intimately, least of all a woman. He doesn't know what a woman is. He wants you for a possesion, something to look at, like a painting or an ivory box. He doesn't want you to be real, or to think or to live. He doesn't love you..."

Alejandro Artiles
AKA The Death Knight

Neo, Aerith couldn't be the main character for obvious reasons. You ever seen the end of the first disk?

Vincent happens to be my favorite character, along with Hojo. I think he has just as much reason to be a character of any kind as any of them.

As for Jenova being the main villain, I disagree, I think Hojo is. He caused...but no, I won't say it, enough unmarked spoilers already .

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Squenix games completed:

FFIII
FFIV
FFVI
FFVII
FFIX
FFX
FF Tactics: Advance 2
Chrono Trigger
Dragon Quest 8
Dragon Quest 11
Super Mario RPG

Quote (Quad @ 17th April 2006 14:02)

As for Jenova being the main villain, I disagree, I think Hojo is. He caused...but no, I won't say it, enough unmarked spoilers already .

Yet Hojo wouldn't have done any of the things he did without Jenova being there in the first place.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

After all, there'd be no Sephiroth without Jenova, and Hojo would have no purpose in the storyline past Mako reactors and whatnot.

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Mako brought Shinra and Avalanche together in the first place. There's something to be said about that.

Also, remember, it was Gast and Hojo that dug up Jenova again. It was Hojo that captured Aerith and Nanaki. It was Hojo that, later in the game, tries to shoot Sephiroth with the Junon Cannon to give him power. And Sephiroth probably would still exist, sans Jenova and Mako. He just wouldn't be as strong.

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Squenix games completed:

FFIII
FFIV
FFVI
FFVII
FFIX
FFX
FF Tactics: Advance 2
Chrono Trigger
Dragon Quest 8
Dragon Quest 11
Super Mario RPG

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

But then again, it's Reeves who helps kidnap Marlene, steals the Ancient Key, and so forth. A character's actions don't make that character the main villain - on the other hand, a character's impact on the storyline's coherance does.

The storyline could exist if Hojo had no direct part in it. However, without Jenova, the party has nothing to chase around, and none of the backstory involving the discoveries Shinra made would exist. Digging up Jenova didn't have as much an impact as Jenova's initial actions (killing off the Ancients and creating the "Promised Land" (ie, the crater when it fell) Shinra is so hell-bent on finding). Capturing Aeris and Red XIII, in the long run, had absolutely no impact other than the party meeting Red XIII. Whose role was relatively minor compared to his grandfather's, really. And the Cannon? This was long after Jenova had brought Cloud to Sephiroth in the north crater and Meteor'd been summoned. At this point, Hojo is just trying to slow the party down so they won't be able to defeat Sephiroth before he can complete his plan of summoning Meteor (or at all, for that matter.) Hojo's just his toady who dies long before he and Jenova do...

Without Jenova and Mako, there's no storyline - the whole point of Sephiroth going mad in the first place was because he found out he was an experiment involving these two. Had there been no Jenova cells to inject in Sephiroth, just what would've caused him to go mad? Just what would've given Cloud a reason to chase him around? What would've caused him to eventually summon Meteor (and Cloud to bring the black materia to him), were it not for Jenova's influence on the two?

Seeing as this is getting a little too spoiler-y...

This post has been edited by Silverlance on 17th April 2006 21:30

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"Judge not a man by his thoughts and words, but by
the quality and quantity of liquor in his possession
and the likelyhood of him sharing."

Quote (Zeromus_X @ 10th February 2006 22:43)

i pride in being the only person in the world who loves cait sith, thank you very much

Actually, I liked Cait Sith as well. In fact, he might have somehow been my strongest character. Aside from Cloud of course.

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Elena Indurain

Currently Playing: Suikoden II

You make a fair point, Silverlance, but I stick to my opinion. Agree to disagree, hm?

Anyway, I think Vincent should've definitely have ben a main character. But that's just my three cents. Yep, with inflation it's gone up.

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Squenix games completed:

FFIII
FFIV
FFVI
FFVII
FFIX
FFX
FF Tactics: Advance 2
Chrono Trigger
Dragon Quest 8
Dragon Quest 11
Super Mario RPG

I think Vincent SHould have been a main character too. I mean, Cid, though he was cool, had less of an impact on the plot then Vincent. Well, whatever, vincent and Cid were my two strongest characters besides Cloud, and Vincent IS getting his own game (though i'm hearing its pretty funky). I also hear that (Zeromus_X will be happy about this) Cait Sith has a pretty big part in Dirge of Cerberous

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Can you pull down the dawn?
It's been so dark since you've been gone
and we've been begging for the morning to come.
We were so optimistic,
wasn't it so easy to be?
We were young and naive.
-The Hush Sound: Eileen

Quote (You Spoony Bard! @ 30th April 2006 18:42)

I also hear that (Zeromus_X will be happy about this) Cait Sith has a pretty big part in Dirge of Cerberous

Haha, surely Square wouldn't be that cruel. Right?
I mean they have heard how much this character is disliked. Why on earth do they use him so much?

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'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

I'd have to say no cus well yeah its nice to know more about the story but not necesary

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Kel'Thuzad: She is persistent. Reminds me of you, death knight.

Arthas:Shut up you damned ghost.

-Warcraft III Kel'thuzad comparing Arthas and Sylvanas Windrunner.

ya i think so in ff7..........but there coming out with another ff7 game..........final fantisy 7 dirge of cerbures and vincent is the main charector!!!!!

Quote (Silverlance @ 11th February 2006 03:45)

I'd rather see Square close the FF chapter once and for all and start exploring new grounds. Or at least put a stop to all these spinoffs and learn to be big boys and end the series instead of further milking it. :/

I agree even though I like vincent and all I think they are taking it to far. They have made a game that every1 loves and enjoys(unless your some crazy wacko. ) Honestly I would have been happy if the just realesed AC and that was it. By the way Silverlance well done.

This post has been edited by DemonsBane666 on 4th June 2006 01:22

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Remember the days were mages were Black or White or Red and Black Belts were cool? Well i bet you still hate the thief till he became the Ninja. I bet you do now lol it's great to be back

Cloud already has his game being that he's the protagonist of FF7

I think they should make one disc of FF7 mini games for all the characters (With the exception of Cloud [FF7] and Vincent [Dirge of Cerberus])

Barret-First person shooter replaying the events of his days in Corel

Tifa-Mastering her skills with Zangan and battleing on Mt. Nibel

Aeries-.....Not much to do because you very well couldn't be interest in buying a copy of "Aeries extreme flower picking!"

Red XIII-the story of his life during the 500 years after the original game

Yuffie-Something to do Materia Hunting

Cait Sith-A Casino style game with a plethera of games like gambling and what not

Cid-A spaceship game (ooh yeah!)

Sephiroth-The Wutai war!

There I'm done fantasizing about spinoffs now



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(Comical Voice) "Say Cloud, why don't you change your party? Who shall we choose? How about......Yuffie and Cait Sith.....Just kidding guys! No one likes you!"

'Casino-Cait!' =3

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OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

vincent *is* a main character -- see the upcoming dirge of cerberus game.

part of ff7's appeal was that it didn't make any pretenses of exhaustively explaining everything in its universe, leaving many things to the discerning player to piece together from scattered bits of evidence, and even more things just outright obscured. personally, i preferred it that way -- ff7 was cloud's story, it was only cloud who could confront and defeat sephiroth to save tifa/the planet. yea, they gave you a handful of looks into the relationship of vincent with lucrecia and the circumstances of sephiroth's conception, the biological engineering his embryo was subject to, and his birth (all of which *much* more heavily involve hojo than vincent). but not only did they have no need of explaining this particular segment of backstory further, it was better that they didn't. now they've gone stupid with spinoffs.

Quote

The storyline could exist if Hojo had no direct part in it.

not exactly. it was hojo whose extreme moral deviance led to the biological experimentation of the jenova effect (on his own child, no less). the game shows hojo to be a deranged psychopath -- he goes so far to inject himself in the end -- and the other episodes in the compendium highlight his depravity even further. the ancients had suceeded in sealing jenova -- and professor gast wanted to lock her up. jenova was completely powerless in shinra's labs; it wasn't until none other than the sleeping sephiroth took control of her form in the shinra tower that she was able to masquerade around the world as sephiroth himself, causing cloud & co to chase her under the belief that they were chasing the real sephiroth. while jenova was the big bang to the universe of ff7's story events, after she was sealed by the ancients, she was pretty much out of comission for the rest of her existence; only in being controlled by sephiroth was she able to even function.

furthermore, the whole malfunction at the nibelheim reactor in the first place was also a result of hojo's depravity -- the malfunction was due to his having placed humans in the reactors, exposing them to such an unhealthy quantity of mako, they became demons. of course you know what happened with cloud & zack during & immediately after this incident...

btw:

Quote

Or is it just that none of the characters are all gothic-looking, have guns, and are portrayed as "badass" by not talking often and being dark and moody in an attempt to appeal to the younger fanboys...?

heartening display of insight.

I think Vincent has all the makings of a great main character-- in another game. Much as I adore Vincent, his existence is meaningless as far as the plot goes. He doesn't really effect anything, except making a few scenes more interesting. Nope, his only real purpose is to shed more light on Sephiroth's past, something he does quite well, and a task which is generally assigned to minor characters. Now, take a darker game than Final Fantasy, perhaps throw in more demons and ghoulies, he'd be the best main character you could dream of, from his outfit, to his personality, to...*goes on and on*

And Cait Sith has a special place in my heart as well, Zeromus. Don't worry, you're not alone in your love of that...whatever he may be

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"If everything's a dream, don't wake me..."