Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

This letter was in the October 2005 issue of Gampro. I really don't care for Gamepro that much, but I loved this letter so much that I had to show it to you guys. It won Letter of the Month that month BTW.

Quote

I'm a 16-year-old gamer (turning 17 in about 2 weeks). I've been gaming since I've been able to hold an NES controller. Now I play with current generation systems-PS2, Xboxes, and GameCube- as well as old-school consoles like the SNES, Sega Genisis, and PlayStation. As I talk to kids who own PS2s, Xboxes, and GameCubes, a lot of them think the graphics are the best part of the game. Some younger gamers won't even play a game unless it has top-of-the-line graphics. Whatever happened to gameplay?
    My dad's girlfriend's 13-year-old son and my 12-year old brother come into my room while I'm playing Final Fantasy VII or Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and say, "The graphics are terrible!" I say, "Maybe so, but at the time, graphics like this were unbelievable. The game is still good though." But they respond, "The graphics still look like crap. I bet the game is too." I makes me angry that they don't appriciate gameplay as they should. Sure, good-looking graphics are a great addition to any game, but what's a pretty game without the fun? I can only hope that younger gamers appriciate the trail-blazing older games that have created the path for the newer games and next-gen consoles.

-Niamee, Via Internet

I agree with this person on all counts. So many 10 year olds that I know refuse to play older games for this very reason. Their are still some that fondly remember fun times on their N64, and come back to it on occasion.

--------------------

Dead Winter. A nice comic.

I believe this topic was done before or at least very similar, but I have concrete evidence to prove it. I don't buy games or like games strictly because of graphics. Great graphics are wonderful in a game, but it is the last thing or second-to-last, between it and music, that I love about a great game.

First and foremost is story. Second would be characters and character development, but that's a little extension of the storyline. After characters and story is gameplay, then graphics and music bring up the rear.

--------------------

"Thought I was dead, eh? Not until I fulfill my dream!"
Seifer Almasy


"The most important part of the story is the ending."
Secret Window


"Peace is but a shadow of death."
Kuja

Lemme guess...the response to the letter either lampooned him in some way or gave him a fatherly pat on the head, right? Used to subscribe to GamePro, and that's kinda how the letters went, no matter the legitimacy. Good to know younger gamers are still kickin' around those "ancient relics" that are PSX discs, though.

--------------------

It's gonna be a glorious day
I feel my luck can change

As I've seen this topic discussed over and over and over at virtually every site with any relationship to gaming to which I've ever visited, I find that I care less and less about either side of the debate.

People are going to like what they like, for better or worse. This has happened in every generation of console gaming, and it won't ever stop. If someone has a desire to give up on a game because it's not pretty enough, that's a valid choice. Not everyone has to like or dislike a game for the same reasons. By the same token, it's not hard to imagine that you could miss out on some fun gaming experiences by thinking that way, but it's really none of my business what someone's personal preferences are, and it's certainly nothing to cause an old man like me who barely cares about gaming to get worked up.

--------------------

"To create something great, you need the means to make a lot of really bad crap." - Kevin Kelly

Why aren't you shopping AmaCoN?

Them ingrates. Why...when my generation played video games, we didn't have these fancy controllers with them buttons and direction pads and what not. We had a stick, with one button on top, and we were grateful for that button!

--------------------

Arts

Farts

Twarts

OK, I have different personal rating systems for RPGs and non-RPGs. For both RPGs and non-RPGs I consider active gameplay mechanics and static gameplay mechanics absolutely paramount to a game's quality. For RPGs, I'll then put an emphasis on characters and storyline execution, then audio and visual presentation. For non-RPGs, I have audio and visual presentation next in line of importance after AGM and SGM, followed by a game's progressive organization and auxilliary elements.

Because my personal ratings system is so unusual, whenever I write a review, I usually have to drastically alter it to fit the qualifications of wherever I want to submit it. For that reason, I have maybe three or four reviews posted on various websites on the internet, with at least another eleven or twelve here on my computer.

Edit

But yeah, long story short, gameplay mechanics are absolutely the most important part of a game. The kid in that letter gives some decent examples, but his graphics-whoring friends simply aren't truly consummate gamers.

This post has been edited by laszlow on 17th March 2006 17:42

--------------------

this is a blog mostly about comics and videogames
END SPOILER

I feel bad because I had to look up consummate.

As for Gamepro's response:

Quote

Your "credentials" are impressive and, of course, you're absolutly correct-gameplay rules. Cut the children some slack; if they continue to play games, they'll see the light... and it won't just be graphics.

And he/she won a Logitech Action Controller for letter of the month

--------------------

Dead Winter. A nice comic.

Quote (Barrylocke @ 17th March 2006 18:42)

Quote

Your "credentials" are impressive and, of course, you're absolutly correct-gameplay rules. Cut the children some slack; if they continue to play games, they'll see the light... and it won't just be graphics.

And he/she won a Logitech Action Controller for letter of the month

Pha, nonsense! No slack for slackers! These kids get it handed to them on a plate in terms of simplicity and then promptly encounter the real world which kicks them in the head and steals their teeth.

And what a lame prize. Most magazines here give you fifteen quid or even a game. Sure, it's a bargin bin game, but it's a coaster...

Graphics are not the most important part of a game. They are somewhat vital in that it should be the best the technology can pull off at the time to the knowledge of programmers, but graphics are almost always a luxury, not a nessecity. Too many people these days can't tell the difference between the two. You shouldn't judge a book by it's cover should be the basic rule used here, were it not for the fact 8/10 Graphics kiddies don't know what a book is.

So, don't judge if it's gold by the shine might fit better, even though I probably just made that up. It might be a little beat up, a little scratched, but it could still be gold. Likewise, it might be as bright as a second sun but it could just be pyrite.



--------------------

"Only the dead have seen the end of their quotes being misattributed to Plato."
-George Santayana

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here..."
-Abraham Lincoln, prior to the discovery of Irony.

I have the same problem over my side too.

Whenever I ask people if they want to play on my SNES, kids start saying "Are the graphics good?" And I respond "Back then they were the best" so when I show them the game, they get pissed off at the quality of a 16-bit object and start whining "Those graphics are horrible!"

And I respond "Yeah, because they were made 10 years before you were born. If you were born back in my days, you'd understand the true holy spirit of a gamer who gives any games a chance regardless of graphics being terrible, music sounding like a mouse is playing a tiny xyloplone, story sounding flat, ior characters being uninteresting. All it matters is nostalgia and the will to play through harder games."

He starts laughing like an ass and says "Try Need For Speed! Better gameplay!" And then I respond "Maybe it does have better gameplay, but those spoiled 3D games are for people who don't know any sh** about the history of their favorite modern games on how they improved and changed over time to become *this* rather than *that*"

Then he just ignores me and decides to go home.

I think the problem here is that these kids don't want to admit or accept the 16-bit and the 8-bit era to become a part of their gaming experience, so they try to prove that the modern games have better gameplay aswell. And like I said a few sentences ago, just because you're playing 3D games and calling yourself a "hardcore" or "serious" "gamer" doesn't mean you don't have to try out the older games especially for their favorite series.

I think the gaming world died once the PlayStation was out. A CD-Rom console for the SNES... Ha! What a bull.

Oh! Btw I already started this topic a year ago as Lockewithceles before I changed to Neo.

This post has been edited by NeoEx-Death on 17th March 2006 20:44

Normally the issue doesn't matter to me, but once I was showing Super Mario Kart to my roomate who somehow had never played it before. And he started bitching about the graphics...this is someone my age who really should know better. I wanted to slap him silly.

It's friggin Super Mario Kart!

--------------------

"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

This pisses me off too. I was playing FFVI on my SNES, and when my friend came over, he said that the graphics were horrible. And then they brought FFVIII over, and everyone was awed by the purty graphics. I just can't stand it when people complain about graphics...*sigh*...

(Then again, that same 'friend' thought that you had to level up alot in FFVIII, so...)

Add-on: Y'know what I just thought of? The graphics of today's games are probably going to look crappy compared to games in like, say 10 years. So would all the people that value graphics above all else say the same things about games of today in 10 years or so? Okay, well, I could've worded that paragraph better, but I always rate graphics by how they were during the time that game was released. (If I take graphics into account at all, which I usually don't care about.) Oh wow, this is a long paragraph, for me anyway. Meh. Bottom line: I don't like it when people bitch about graphics.

This post has been edited by Zeromus_X on 18th March 2006 08:08

--------------------

OSonic Rave
/ \Last Arcanum
[ ]Strike Raid
XRagnarok

Those who know, know, and those who don't know, don't know what they should know!

I prefer gameplay over graphics anyday. I enjoy playing any game that dates from the 80's NES days, the mid 90's Super NES age, from 95 to 2000 the PSone chapter, and after that I disconnected from the gaming world because I was not having fun anymore playing video games, they where just not the same. Only until recently I started playing games again.

Currently I'm playin Dragon Quest 8, amazing game in my opinion, is like a SuperNES traditional RPG that came late.

--------------------

PS3 tag: TipoDLuffy

"...quite possibly the greatest game ever made"

Kids are stupid. Of course they like games that have shiney graphics and TV adverts.

--------------------

Whether you take the doughnut hole as a blank space or as an entity unto itself is a purely metaphysical question and does not affect the taste of the doughnut one bit.

http://slightly-bitter.blog.co.uk

Good graphics are great, fine, dandy, good show etc. This point might sound obvious, but they only become a problem when the gameplay is compromised to make the graphics good. And, in all honesty, I kind of prefer those ancient bright colours and little sprites. Like... a nostalgia thing or some crap. But, I have to admit, I do get excited when I see the latest advert showing hyper-mega-real graphics. Just because I wonder, "How the fudge did they do that?"

--------------------

'Bastards, we may be, but clever are we.'
Thorn, FFIX

I think some newer gamers of the present day, just getting their feet wet, are going to prefer those things that seem familiar. Many more people watch movies than play videogames, so it's likely that they'll gravitate toward games that look better--they're used to having their visual senses catered to, and hence they'll find more-graphically-beautified games to be more attractive. On the other hand, people who've played older games before have more experience with gameplay and its (not immediately visible) effects on game quality, and are more likely to emphasize gameplay in their tastes.

--------------------

Check the "What games are you playing at the moment?" thread for updates on what I've been playing.

You can find me on the Fediverse! I use Mastodon, where I am @[email protected] ( https://sakurajima.moe/@glennmagusharvey )

Graphics are more important than gameplay? Wow, maybe that's why so many kids want xbox 360's. Now, don't take this as a direct shot to the 360, it just seems like that for all of the games that i've played on it (granted, it's just a few). I noticed this especially with Madden.

But anyway, all kids need is a good video game player as a role model growing up. I'll tell you, I taught my little brother about video games and he appreciates them fine. It's all about proper exposure, people.

I try to teach my little sister, but at the age of seven, the only game that appeal are Nickelodeon games and Barbie games. And the only games that appeal to her friend's older brother, who's 9, is wrestling games, Bball games, and football games. But I managed to get my good friend to play some classic games with awsome gameplay, so that's a personal victory for me.

A recent quote of this friend: "Shiny crap is still crap, and it still smells just as bad"

--------------------

Dead Winter. A nice comic.

All of you on here griping about kids nowadays not "knowing their roots" or "respecting the groundbreaking games" that made possible what they play today...... You remind me of my grampa, and how he used to tell me about when coke cost a nickle, and a loaf of bread 3 cents. You are the stodgy old farts of the gameplay world.

I know this... because I am one of you. I've long ago stopped trying to argue the point now. Things shift, as they always do. Eye candy will prevail for a while, until a time that gamers demand more from their games... at which point, companies will try to put more content in. And then it will swing back to graphics again, and so it goes....

--------------------

Join the Army, see the world, meet interesting people - and kill them.

~Pacifist Badge, 1978

I have had a few victoies too, I've teached a few of my friends from where did the games they play now came from, for example, my lil cousin, he was like, "OH, FF X is th best RPG ever", I was like whoa dude wait a minute, come here. I gave him Final Fantasy VII and Xenogears, today he is a diffeent gamer, he is hoooked, yes hoooked with three O's, hoooked on Super NES RPGs, I'm glad for it.

Now, if the new generation doesn't give a poop about the old games that shaped the ones we play today, then screw them, they are missiing out some of the most fun games ever.



--------------------

PS3 tag: TipoDLuffy

"...quite possibly the greatest game ever made"

Don't turn around to graphics because in many games, graphics takes an important place (e.g. FPS games). Not many people can say they prefer shooting games that you can shoot in only four directions at 90 degrees each to the current new games. Graphics are an important aspect as field. I hate shooting to kill a guard and the bullet won't go through a small plant? Then the guard with his perfect stupid AI (since he won't notice you 5 yards away from him) will shoot at you with a perfect aiming.

When I played that game, I was happy that the bullet didn't make a ricochet on the plant!!! <.<

Other than the example above, graphics are not really worth considering. I've seen those "SUPER NEW AND REALISTIC 3D TETRIS " (as if Tetris could ever look real) and I wasn't amazed at all. I'd rather play the good old Tetris since my graphics card can handle it.

--------------------

Sayonara

TOP 10 PLATFORMERS

Now this is what I'm talkin about, remember the classics.

This post has been edited by SaffireWeapon on 21st March 2006 05:49

--------------------

PS3 tag: TipoDLuffy

"...quite possibly the greatest game ever made"

I can't believe that. I'm only fifteen, and I adore the old SNES games. Maybe it's because my first games were the old Sonic and Mario games back in second grade. To me, they was the best thing ever. I didn't care about the graphics. I didn't even once think about the graphics. All I knew was that the games were fun, and I wished that I had my own SNES and Sega Genesis (I think it was called) at home. I had to play them at the local boys and girls club while waiting for my mom to pick me up and take me home.

My first RPG was FFVIII, since I'd heard from my friends that it rocked, and my brother had managed to get his paws on a barely functional playstation. After that I moved on to FFVII, then back to the old SNES Final Fantasies. I'm addicted to them now. The PS Final Fantasies are great, don't get me wrong, but for some reason I find myself gravitating more towards the SNES games lately.

Which is why I'll never understand the people who think that graphics are the most important thing in a game.

Edit

Unless you're talking about a shooter, as Zodiac said. But I'm not that big on shooters, so I overlooked them.

This post has been edited by ShadowChocobo on 22nd March 2006 19:10

--------------------

WUT LOL?

We all sound like a bunch of old men; I agree with Hamedo.

I definately do enjoy my new age games. Well some of them, anyhow. However, I will not judge a game on it's graphics, because that's sheer ignorance. Having played Dungeons and Dragons, I can honestly say graphics really mean nothing .

Really, there's no point to bitching about graphics at this point. People are always gonna do what they're gonna do. The fact that PSX graphics are outdated comes as a rather large shock to me, mainly because I only have to eras in my brain- 2D- and 3D. Old or New. The fact that anybody calls 3D graphics outdated puzzles me quite a bit.

--------------------

If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

Yeah, I found it rather vexing myself how so many people would rather have a pretty picture, or interactive movie than a really good game.

But I realise this won't change any time soon, if ever. So get used to it folks! People are indeed different.
Hey look on the bright side, at least loads of games are still being made! And there are still a lot of good ones to choose from, not all bad eh? hehehe.

--------------------

'Let that be a lesson to all oppressive vegetable sellers.'

The funny thing is that I'm 16, so I never heard of a lot of those. But yeah, I'm actually working on two of those on the list right now. (Kirby SUper Star, Yoshi's Island.) Never played Yoshi's Island untill now.



--------------------

Dead Winter. A nice comic.

I agree with u when u say that the gameplay\plot is fading out of the fun...

I hate it how some of the newer games have 'WOW!' sort of graphics, but in the storyline they have loads and loads of gaping plot holes and generally arent fun to play unless you're wishing to play something shallow and lacking depth of replayability. I mean, come on. I've played Castlevania SOTN and FFVII and they're still good. Then a couple of my friends come and they diss the games cos they're old and so-called 'boring'. Damn the graphics revolution... (shakes fist at Microsoft)

--------------------

--CounterStriker as much as FF (x)-er--

Reis owns all! Possibly more deadly than Orlandu at lvl 99.

Yes, I got social skills of a rock. And I'm proud of it. Damn straight, I don't really trust people, even though I'm human myself. Even I don't trust myself sometimes. Gah! this is getting nowhere.

Sudden thought. Do you think that a system with inferior graphics is more likely to look more at gameplay than one with superior graphics and system. For example, is Nintendo more likely to look at better gameplay for the DS than Sony is with the PSP, since we know that the PSP has a superior system in terms of hardware?

Personally, I think that it can go to their advantage. Look a Sony and their PS2, which is a year older than the Gamecube and XBox. Yet they still crank out games that overall, I believe to be better than those for the other two.

--------------------

Dead Winter. A nice comic.

i think graphics arent everything but i would be embarassed to be palying a game for my 360 that had the graphics of an atari game haha

--------------------

Why is it that rpg's are now a dying breed?